Mods and Money!?

[pinky6225]

2 hours ago, Kimy said:

Yeah, I guess a lot of people picked up that "partial paywall" model. It's undeniably more successful than the type of tip-jar Ashal or myself are operating. I looked at a few numbers a while back, and paywalling modders seem to get 5-6 times more paying supporters on average than tip jar operators do. Komotor has about 350 patrons, if I am not mistaken. For comparison, I have 66. It's a sad truth that people don't like to pay, unless you force them...

Yes it is and yet the donation model was being touted as the silver bullet/gold standard when steam tried to do paid modding by pretty much everybody against paid modding

 

Would be interesting to cross reference people saying donations were the way with people that are actually donating and seeing if the numbers match up, highly doubt they will

[Pfiffy]

44 minutes ago, IGotBored said:

@pfiffy

I know it was just a hypothetical question but if you wanted to open a patreon then go ahead. Its a person's choice if they want to support you or not. . I haven't switched to SSE yet but when I do I'm happy for the conversions you did. Your still doing more work then most by doing the conversions. If your not pay walling anything then I don't see how your "stealing" as komotor puts it before saying that he pisses on your face. Also if a author has a problem with you doing a conversion and request for you to remove it then I trust that you would go ahead and take it down.

It is not Komotor, that keeps me from making a Patreon Account, it's also not the things that I have uploaded by now. I know how easy it is to convert SLAL packs, I don't fear, that any of the others would remove the permissions they have already given and If they do i simply give them their files and let it be.

 

I really hoped that someone like him shows up. There are still a lot of mods I want to bring to SE in one or another way. And you can see by his comments, that making a patreon for me will be a rock in the way. Ok, He is an extreme... But he is not alone with his attitude.

I also have my own rules according modding: I dont pay for it and I don't want to be paid for it. Seeing it strict, donations are payment. 

As caden said i should make an account, I started to think about it (I started to think about the whole thing) and I found a solution for myself. If ppl want to support me, they should support Ashal and Loverslab. Here is the place where I do what I do. Here are the ppl, who help me with doing it. And here is the place, where I can post the ports. If ashal gets more support for Loverslab, he might be able to give more room to the modders so I don't have to switch over to mega and mods will be easier accessible for the community. It took a bit to find the link to ashal's patreon and I found it more or less accidentially. I really would like to see it in more signitures. 

 

 

[t.ara]

On 6/13/2018 at 6:52 PM, Tweens said:

 

This is probably the most overlooked aspect of pay to play mods and even donation based modding; but it is also the most important.

 

Bethesda has stated explicitly in their TOU that all "Derivative Works" belong to them.  Even though my animations are made completely by me, they still rely on Bethesda's game engine to be functional.  That is "technically" a derivative work; and in law, technicalities are important.  This is the main reason that modders credit Bethesda on the main page of their download. 

 

If Bethesda sees a modder making money, they could sue that modder for a percentage of the profits; or all of them, since it was done without permission.  I am quite confident that the courts would rule in favor of Bethesda, since we all agreed to abide by the TOU when we installed the game; as well as the making of money, without paying royalties, can be shown as damaging to the company.  Granted, it may be more difficult to prosecute someone outside of the US; but not impossible.  Especially if there is a large enough incentive, or if the mods reside on a US based server. 

 

It is fine to be modding for free, and Bethesda actively encourages it; but once money enters the picture the dynamic changes drastically. 

 

This is the main and central aspect and gets "off-view" quickly:

 

Animations can not be added by using the CK and can not be added to the game (skyrim) . The surrounding of this fact makes every work, that has to do with animations, concerning skyrim to be another "grey-zone" of modding.

If you animate and use a fully own skeleton, you are out of any bounds of bethesda´s artwork, (but/and) as soon this skeleton uses the game´s engine (or if you use the skeleton of bethesda (including all modified skeletons) , you work falls under new rules (bethesda rules). As a fact do all LL-mods base on this "additional" grey-zone, because without new animations, nobody would like to play a sex-mod.

 

 

The use of patreon is always the way to become payed for the work you create. The users get to be patreon-slaves. Regulary income is creating business-pressure, pressure that I can feel from some people around here. Sorry, but their way of choice!

As soon the mod they get payed for, is not based on the work of others, it´s ok (but this is mostly not the case). If you get payed for stuff that is not created by yourself, it´s a pain in the ass for people, who created that work in the past and that´s not okay because (1) off-rule of bethesda and (2) same time hurting the original-mod´s /author´s rights/law of the author´s country.

 

To be again more soft:

I hope that FORE (FNIS) has also a paypal-account and hopefully you pay him some cents of your income, all of you have to pay him !!!

 

 

Patreon itself is another questionable buiseness that takes money for using their service (5-10%). It´s a quite similar model, close to paypal. And they take specially here their advance to make people believe to be anonymous handling their business.

 

No mod should be called "professional". Same for "quality". The word "mod " tells it all alone. It´s an game add-on with different effects.

 

Finally it´s the descision of the gamer, what (s)he will like to play or to use, and at least it´s the gamer´s choice, what will happen here in future.

 

 

 

 

 

 

TWEENS started with the very much correct point of view concerning this dilemma.

@WINNY257  ?????

 

 

 

 

 

[Kimy]

7 hours ago, t.ara said:

No mod should be called "professional". Same for "quality". The word "mod " tells it all alone. It´s an game add-on with different effects.

With that logic you might as well argue that every application is just an add-on to the operating system it's running on. So Skyrim is just an add-on to Windows, because it uses its API and DirectX and can't run without either. That makes sense! *nod*

 

A "mod" is a piece of software, like any other. People make arbitrary distinctions when it suits their line of arguing.

[t.ara]

14 minutes ago, Alkpaz said:

@T.ara, I asked Fore if I could donate to him, he declined. I did ask about a year+ ago, so I don't know if his position has changed. Never hurts to ask.

That´s fine!:-) 

I think he created FNIS because he wants SO MUCH to add animations to skyrim:-))

 

[t.ara]

34 minutes ago, Kimy said:

With that logic you might as well argue that every application is just an add-on to the operating system it's running on. So Skyrim is just an add-on to Windows, because it uses its API and DirectX and can't run without either. That makes sense! *nod*

 

A "mod" is a piece of software, like any other. People make arbitrary distinctions when it suits their line of arguing.

I´m not arguing. Facts only.

"A mod is a "piece" of "software""-

did I mention that word "software"?

The red signed line is not mine, your improvisation, only.

With "people", you mean all the others?

 

Ich brauche hier nicht zu argumentieren. Nur Fakten.

Mods sind Teile, die dem Spiel zugefügt werden.

Das rot markierte ist nicht von mir, Deine Improvisation allein.

Habe ich den Begriff  "Software" erwähnt?

Mit "Leute", meinst Du alle Anderen?

 

 

without windows, no skyrim, without skyrim no mod (for skyrim)

windows = operation system

skyrim = software

mods = software

 

Ohne windows, kein Skyrim, ohne skyrim kein mod.

Windows = betriebssystem = software 

Skyrim = software

Mod(s) = Software

 

 

 

 

[Kimy]

I guess I pointed that out to defeat your argument that mods cannot be "professional" because they are "just an add-on". There is no intrinsic reason why mods can't be professional, just because they require a base game to run. Beth is actually selling mods (Creation Club), so that's professional modding, no?

[Pfiffy]

5 minutes ago, Kimy said:

I guess I pointed that out to defeat your argument that mods cannot be "professional" because they are "just an add-on". There is no intrinsic reason why mods can't be professional, just because they require a base game to run. Beth is actually selling mods (Creation Club), so that's professional modding, no?

Could we take some other example then 'CC' ? If that is professional, unprofessional will do for me.

 

 

[Kimy]

7 hours ago, Pfiffy said:

Could we take some other example then 'CC' ? If that is professional, unprofessional will do for me.

 

 

Haha! As I said above, the word "professional" just means that you're doing it for money. It doesn't mean that you can't suck at what you do!

[Supertin]

I rarely agree with komotors opinions on this type of stuff (pretty much never otherwise), except this time on this one thing. Having a patreon that is based purely on monetizing content someone else made is unacceptable. Someone taking animations, playing them in-game, recording them and monetizing them through videos is like a kick in the balls to the original creator.

 

I would feel a similar way, if there was someone receiving a regular stream of donations/payment for basically doing an equivalent thing. I think having a patreon for porting mods from Skyrim to SkyrimSE to be unethical at best.

Compared to the effort involved in the creation the original assets, meshes, animations, scripts etc. porting them from Skyrim LE to SE is an absolute joke. Nontheless that I rarely see mods that aren't ported by the original creators to actually have actually been ported adequately.

If such a patreon were to exist I wouldn't allow any assets I created to be ported or removed from the ports. Although that pretty much means a mostly unfunctional port.

 

I've toyed with the idea of opening a patreon every now and then aswell. But everytime I am torn between feeling like scumbag for asking for money on the internet and actually thinking it would be nice to have some return on the actual investments I have made from my own pockets to have access to tools I use to create the things I desperately want to see exist in the game. Plus the fact that I often think it's not even worth the effort anyway, unless you go the full scumbag borderline scam artist path of locking content between time-gated paywalls or even worse permant paywalls. Those two types aren't conductive to creating a healthy modding community anyway.

[Pfiffy]

Yeah... At least we had some more problems with CC... Just thinking about Jcontainers and CF. Beth keeps us going....

[dankmemesxd]

Interesting read, but I want to add my two cents, maybe questios?

 

So, first of all, I am thankful for all mod makers. For their "wasted" time doing mods, learning how to do them and answering dumb questions (some of them were asked by me ? ). 

 

But..

 

Isnt making mods a hobby for you? It must started as a hobby, because if you started to make mods, because you wanted to earn money, you were wrong in the beginning. I also thought (still think) that people who share their mods kind of like the feeling that their stuff made someone else happy. Me, maybe other people too, do not demand anything from mod authors. I personally did not see a person demanding something from a mod author (if someone asked like 'can you fix X, please' I do not count it as demand)if the author did not demand for it. Mod creators are not forced to work on their mods. Nobody forces them to do that. If a mod creator doesnt develop mod Y or doesnt upgrade mod Z, its a waste of potential, but world is not going to end.

 

Of course, nobody also forces mod users to donate ( I donated to some mod authors aswell), also putting something behind a paywall is also not forbidden. But when you are putting something behind a paywall, you brtter do it from the beginning, because when you post stuff on LL just to get publicity and then make some people "addicted" to your mod (if Billy made his animations private, I would prob drop skyrim) and put it behind a paywall, you are a mothertrucker. 

 

Aleo when there is money involved, there always  will be something bad.

 

 

I may completly missed the point of the topic, so dont crucify me if I did

[t.ara]

42 minutes ago, Kimy said:

I guess I pointed that out to defeat your argument that mods cannot be "professional" because they are "just an add-on". There is no intrinsic reason why mods can't be professional, just because they require a base game to run. Beth is actually selling mods (Creation Club), so that's professional modding, no?

 

 

I know you want to "defeat"- your artwork and programming into papyrus,

you don´t need to do that, we all do love your personal work/ your team´s work,

but I personally don´t  call any stuff that doesn´t work like the original game as "professional".

 

And it´s not enough to tell a stuff you make money with as "professional",

it was fairly mentioned here -"professionalism" is not impliciding quality.

 

"A Profession" we do all know what it means and that´s fine for all of us.

 

CC mods were addessed to console players only..?

Checked up /tested / changed by bethesda?...and then released for $$ ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[t.ara]

9 minutes ago, dankmemesxd said:

Interesting read, but I want to add my two cents, maybe questios?

 

So, first of all, I am thankful for all mod makers. For their "wasted" time doing mods, learning how to do them and answering dumb questions (some of them were asked by me ? ). 

 

But..

 

Isnt making mods a hobby for you? It must started as a hobby, because if you started to make mods, because you wanted to earn money, you were wrong in the beginning. I also thought (still think) that people who share their mods kind of like the feeling that their stuff made someone else happy. Me, maybe other people too, do not demand anything from mod authors. I personally did not see a person demanding something from a mod author (if someone asked like 'can you fix X, please' I do not count it as demand)if the author did not demand for it. Mod creators are not forced to work on their mods. Nobody forces them to do that. If a mod creator doesnt develop mod Y or doesnt upgrade mod Z, its a waste of potential, but world is not going to end.

 

Of course, nobody also forces mod users to donate ( I donated to some mod authors aswell), also putting something behind a paywall is also not forbidden. But when you are putting something behind a paywall, you brtter do it from the beginning, because when you post stuff on LL just to get publicity and then make some people "addicted" to your mod (if Billy made his animations private, I would prob drop skyrim) and put it behind a paywall, you are a mothertrucker. 

 

Aleo when there is money involved, there always  will be something bad.

 

 

I may completly missed the point of the topic, so dont crucify me if I did

We don´t waste time, we love to mod-it´s very much exiting:_)

[Pfiffy]

20 minutes ago, Supertin said:

I rarely agree with komotors opinions on this type of stuff (pretty much never otherwise), except this time on this one thing. Having a patreon that is based purely on monetizing content someone else made is unacceptable. Someone taking animations, playing them in-game, recording them and monetizing them through videos is like a kick in the balls to the original creator.

 

I would feel a similar way, if there was someone receiving a regular stream of donations/payment for basically doing an equivalent thing. I think having a patreon for porting mods from Skyrim to SkyrimSE to be unethical at best.

Compared to the effort involved in the creation the original assets, meshes, animations, scripts etc. porting them from Skyrim LE to SE is an absolute joke. Nontheless that I rarely see mods that aren't ported by the original creators to actually have actually been ported adequately.

If such a patreon were to exist I wouldn't allow any assets I created to be ported or removed from the ports. Although that pretty much means a mostly unfunctional port.

 

I've toyed with the idea of opening a patreon every now and then aswell. But everytime I am torn between feeling like scumbag for asking for money on the internet and actually thinking it would be nice to have some return on the actual investments I have made from my own pockets to have access to tools I use to create the things I desperately want to see exist in the game. Plus the fact that I often think it's not even worth the effort anyway, unless you go the full scumbag borderline scam artist path of locking content between time-gated paywalls or even worse permant paywalls. Those two types aren't conductive to creating a healthy modding community anyway.

 

As you can see the attitudes towards this differ even from modder to modder. The main question is if it is unethically to get rewarded for the 'work' of porting (quite easy if you deal with anims, a lot more work with mods like DD and rather difficult with look at CF). And this are just the things that I was involved in. Also there is the question if it is unethical to be rewarded for doing the support, that the original authors can't or don't want to do. Which is a bit more of a problem with a lot of dependencies not availible or in alpha / beta stage.

Without porters there would not be so much to download for SE users. Not here and also not on Nexus. 

Adequately ported??? Interesting point.... I had my own expiriences with the new CK and porting by the rules... While working on DCL I broke an error free esp about 20 times, and accidentially also the esp of alternate start, which was made with the new CK...But that is a different story.  

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Pfiffy said:

 

As you can see the attitudes towards this differ even from modder to modder. The main question is if it is unethically to get rewarded for the 'work' of porting (quite easy if you deal with anims, a lot more work with mods like DD and rather difficult with look at CF). And this are just the things that I was involved in. Also there is the question if it is unethical to be rewarded for doing the support, that the original authors can't or don't want to do. Which is a bit more of a problem with a lot of dependencies not availible or in alpha / beta stage.

Without porters there would not be so much to download for SE users. Not here and also not on Nexus. 

Adequately ported??? Interesting point.... I had my own expiriences with the new CK and porting by the rules... While working on DCL I broke an error free esp about 20 times, and accidentially also the esp of alternate start, which was made with the new CK...But that is a different story.  

If the original author isn't porting his/her work to SE, not because they don't want it there, but that they just don't feel like doing it. And if they don't care that you are doing it. And don't care that you would ask for a donation to do it, then do it.

 

If they don't care if you port their mod, and are OK with you moving it to SE, but don't feel right about you asking for money, then you probably shouldn't at least out of respect to the person who authored the original work.

 

I've got a couple of Bullshit worthless mods up on Nexus, I really could care less what anyone does with them. I really wouldn't care if someone asked for a donation to port it somewhere else. But I would be upset if they put it behind a paywall. Well except they really aren't worth much.

[GrimReaper]

20 hours ago, komotor said:

http://komotor.tumblr.com/post/167946587645/stolen-work

 

That's a lot of text for simply saying 'I don't like what you're doing but I don't have any legal claims'. And let's be perfectly honest here, the legal twilight zone modding occupies is something the whole community is profiting from, always has. Ripping assets, hacking and reverse engineering is something that would be bombarded with cease & desists, DMCA takedowns or being outright sued into oblivion if it were any kind of commercial venture. But since it's modding many developers and publishers turn a blind eye or simply allow using their assets. The same with software like 3DSMax who iirc require you to buy a license if you're going to go commercial with anything you create with said software. That's exactly why nobody is really selling mods but instead asking for 'donations'. Selling mods without technically selling them is a legal loophole but the consequence obviously is that you aren't protected by copyright laws yourself.

 

[Pfiffy]

3 hours ago, bishlapped said:

If the original author isn't porting his/her work to SE, not because they don't want it there, but that they just don't feel like doing it. And if they don't care that you are doing it. And don't care that you would ask for a donation to do it, then do it.

 

If they don't care if you port their mod, and are OK with you moving it to SE, but don't feel right about you asking for money, then you probably shouldn't at least out of respect to the person who authored the original work.

 

I've got a couple of Bullshit worthless mods up on Nexus, I really could care less what anyone does with them. I really wouldn't care if someone asked for a donation to port it somewhere else. But I would be upset if they put it behind a paywall. Well except they really aren't worth much.

You can be sure, that every mod that has been ported to SE and uploaded here was placed in the SE download section with permission. I have a lot stuff converted, that is not up because I don't have the permission to do so and I have the permission for releasing a few things, but it doesn't make sense upload them because the permission for something else is missing. And there are a lot of other ppl that port mods privatly. If you take a look at the conversion tracking you will find a lot more mods marked as convertable than you see in the SE download section. 

 

But if you track this thread, you might understand, why I'm in a really funny situation: I was asked to open up a patreon for me, while other say it would be unethical to do so. This whole thing is far more complicated then most of the ppl realize. I was asked by one author to post his patreon along with the port, so I added the specific patreons along with the other mods, too and a day later the first one said i should take the patreon link out again because he is not the owner of all assets and he doesn't want to get into trouble. Even if he has his patreon in his signiture.

 

Then some of the ppl see what I do as 'work', others call it a piece of shit. I was even called 'King of convesions' and I didn't know if that one honored what i have done, or if the person was simply pissed because of the 'popularity' i got in the meantime.   

 

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Supertin said:

I rarely agree with komotors opinions on this type of stuff (pretty much never otherwise), except this time on this one thing. Having a patreon that is based purely on monetizing content someone else made is unacceptable. Someone taking animations, playing them in-game, recording them and monetizing them through videos is like a kick in the balls to the original creator.

 

I would feel a similar way, if there was someone receiving a regular stream of donations/payment for basically doing an equivalent thing. I think having a patreon for porting mods from Skyrim to SkyrimSE to be unethical at best.

Compared to the effort involved in the creation the original assets, meshes, animations, scripts etc. porting them from Skyrim LE to SE is an absolute joke. Nontheless that I rarely see mods that aren't ported by the original creators to actually have actually been ported adequately.

If such a patreon were to exist I wouldn't allow any assets I created to be ported or removed from the ports. Although that pretty much means a mostly unfunctional port.

 

I've toyed with the idea of opening a patreon every now and then aswell. But everytime I am torn between feeling like scumbag for asking for money on the internet and actually thinking it would be nice to have some return on the actual investments I have made from my own pockets to have access to tools I use to create the things I desperately want to see exist in the game. Plus the fact that I often think it's not even worth the effort anyway, unless you go the full scumbag borderline scam artist path of locking content between time-gated paywalls or even worse permant paywalls. Those two types aren't conductive to creating a healthy modding community anyway.

I use often harsh words and I'm pretty direct yea obviously.. I had already made front with some guys like that and I'm not jocking, I slap and bite.
And even if many do not like how I think, I also think like that by experience.. 
Winning my trust has become very difficult now, I trust in some, but I have enough with few fingers to count them.. 

Yeah took videos of animations or convert them to another version of the game and request paid or ask donation for that is only a joke, and that give really a bad feeling to the original creators, it's a shame and these people have NO respect at all for the hard work of the true authors..
Espiecialy than most do not even credit original artists and hard worker.. 
Those considering that as work do not have much in their head than those who complain on my topic than extract a 2 parts archive is too difficult..

They have for most no idea on how work on these things are complex, time consuming and need also a good layer of talent, I do creative stuff out of my mind for about all I made..
It's not to see untalented and unskilled guys take all this work and monetize that in any way.

Only the fact to consider receive something for that prouve that these guys have really not much in their head..

 

Pfiffy say do not support and not want to support creators, but consider the option to open a patreon to receive something for simple shitty work.

I try to see the logic in his little head or those who think like that. Only a gang of clowns for my point of view.

I do not think anyway that many are going to let him continue to made convert if he do something like that..
You know, I have already talk with some animators and modders about that.. They do not like at all and do not let him doing that..

Like you.. you made a work, and despite that you have shame to open a patreon, and you are going to see someone receive money to convert your stuff..?

Eh lol it's a nice surprise if you see that, no?

I say to you the same I say to the others who really create or work on serious work, open your patreon, put a damn paywall and get something for what you do before see a nobrain took advantage and make monney with your work...

And I'm like that, and I made paywall, and I have strict permission for these good reasons..
When I was in tipjar with 2-3 patrons, with only 5 or 6$. A guys start to made video of a animations on which I have dedicated 4 months of all my free time and weekends.. 
For free! See this guy have more and more patrons only by showing a preview, I have say to him that maybe that he is going to generate money with my hard work that I can consider support me even with 1$. His answer was "I do not support creators.. I do that to get money.."
OK now you know why I punch, pee and shit on faces on many.. And since I have made some paywall and that I let nobody convert my stuff,

that I do not give permissions easly etc.

I know the mindset of these guys, SkyrimGTX do more than pfiffy and he is hated, and some even recommend to pfiify to do the same.. Shame on you.
You are not better than a SkyrimGTX.. the bottom of the basket.. and I weigh my words, because I think even worse.

Honestly if that became the mindset of LL, I leave, I remove all my stuff from here, put all under strict paywall and give nothing for free anymore..
I have nothing to do with a gang of clowns..

[Pfiffy]

11 minutes ago, komotor said:

I use often harsh words and I'm pretty direct yea obviously.. I had already made front with some guys like that and I'm not jocking, I slap and bite.
And even if many do not like how I think, I also think like that by experience.. 
Winning my trust has become very difficult now, I trust in some, but I have enough with few fingers to count them.. 

Yeah took videos of animations or convert them to another version of the game and request paid or ask donation for that is only a joke, and that give really a bad feeling to the original creators, it's a shame and these people have NO respect at all for the hard work of the true authors..
Espiecialy than most do not even credit original artists and hard worker.. 
Those considering that as work do not have much in their head than those who complain on my topic than extract a 2 parts archive is too difficult..

They have for most no idea on how work on these things are complex, time consuming and need also a good layer of talent, I do creative stuff out of my mind for about all I made..
It's not to see untalented and unskilled guys take all this work and monetize that in any way.

Only the fact to consider receive something for that prouve that these guys have really not much in their head..

 

Pfiffy say do not support and not want to support creators, but consider the option to open a patreon to receive something for simple shitty work.

I try to see the logic in his little head or those who think like that. Only a gang of clowns for my point of view.

I do not think anyway that many are going to let him continue to made convert if he do something like that..
You know, I have already talk with some animators and modders about that.. They do not like at all and do not let him doing that..

Like you.. you made a work, and despite that you have shame to open a patreon, and you are going to see someone receive money to convert your stuff..?

Eh lol it's a nice surprise if you see that, no?

I say to you the same I say to the others who really create or work on serious work, open your patreon, put a damn paywall and get something for what you do before see a nobrain took advantage and make monney with your work...

And I'm like that, and I made paywall, and I have strict permission for these good reasons..
When I was in tipjar with 2-3 patrons, with only 5 or 6$. A guys start to made video of a animations on which I have dedicated 4 months of all my free time and weekends.. 
For free! See this guy have more and more patrons only by showing a preview, I have say to him that maybe that he is going to generate money with my hard work that I can consider support me even with 1$. His answer was "I do not support creators.. I do that to get money.."
OK now you know why I punch, pee and shit on faces on many.. And since I have made some paywall and that I let nobody convert my stuff,

that I do not give permissions easly etc.

I know the mindset of these guys, SkyrimGTX do more than pfiffy and he is hated, and some even recommend to pfiify to do the same.. Shame on you.
You are not better than a SkyrimGTX.. the bottom of the basket.. and I weigh my words, because I think even worse.

Honestly if that became the mindset of LL, I leave, I remove all my stuff from here, put all under strict paywall and give nothing for free anymore..
I have nothing to do with a gang of clowns..

To put things right, I was asked to open up a patreon and asked a hypothetical question.... 

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, Pfiffy said:

To put things right, I was asked to open up a patreon and asked a hypothetical question.... 

Hypothetical...

Hopefuly, but as said only the fact of consider that is not something logic for me.

But strangely when you have contacted me a bit by private but also on my topic to also insist, that attracted my eyes on you..
Once again by experience I know that it is often those who insist, tho get popularity and respect from the work made by the others, that they often hide something.

I was, "He surely plan something, I'm pretty sure to see a new patreon for convert stuff, I need to keep an eye on him"
And there is.. This hypothetical question..

 

So let me be dubitative.

[Pfiffy]

2 minutes ago, komotor said:

Hypothetical...

Hopefuly, but as said only the fact of consider that is not something logic for me.

But strangely when you have contacted me a bit by private but also on my topic to also insist, that attracted my eyes on you..
Once again by experience I know that it is often those who insist, tho get popularity and respect from the work made by the others, that they often hide something.

I was, "He surely plan something, I'm pretty sure to see a new patreon for convert stuff, I need to keep an eye on him"
And there is.. This hypothetical question..

 

So let me be dubitative.

Open it up.... And we talk again..

[Pfiffy]

@komotor

 

But you really got me... I'm up to something... I'm up to make as many LE mods accessible for SE users as I can without breaking the rules. I'm up to help authors getting their mods running in SE if they want to. I'm up to to help users to do conversions for themself, if it there are no official ports.

 

This is highly unethical for some ppl, others appreciate it. 

 

It is the same with you....

 

While some pll are ok with having your anims behind a pay wall, others would blame you for using LL as a cheap advertising platform, calling posting free stuff here a cheap excuse. It is just a point of view....

I worked myself with 3DS Max for a time, had my own mod runnig and so know how time consuming it s to work on mods. I don't judge things like pay walls. 

 

And it doesn't matter if I like you, or you like me, I still want to see you mods in SE because they cover a underepresented filed of animations. And after you take down your own attempt of offering your animations for SE, I wondered what went wrong. Leaving the question, if it would have been an option to ask a stupid porter to help you....

 

 

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Pfiffy said:

You can be sure, that every mod that has been ported to SE and uploaded here was placed in the SE download section with permission. I have a lot stuff converted, that is not up because I don't have the permission to do so and I have the permission for releasing a few things, but it doesn't make sense upload them because the permission for something else is missing. And there are a lot of other ppl that port mods privatly. If you take a look at the conversion tracking you will find a lot more mods marked as convertable than you see in the SE download section. 

 

But if you track this thread, you might understand, why I'm in a really funny situation: I was asked to open up a patreon for me, while other say it would be unethical to do so. This whole thing is far more complicated then most of the ppl realize. I was asked by one author to post his patreon along with the port, so I added the specific patreons along with the other mods, too and a day later the first one said i should take the patreon link out again because he is not the owner of all assets and he doesn't want to get into trouble. Even if he has his patreon in his signiture.

 

Then some of the ppl see what I do as 'work', others call it a piece of shit. I was even called 'King of convesions' and I didn't know if that one honored what i have done, or if the person was simply pissed because of the 'popularity' i got in the meantime.   

 

You situation is the EXACT reason Steam had to pull the plug on it's initial paid modding program. So many mods don't belong solely to one person or group. Many people have rights to resources in so many other people's mods.

 

[winny257]

14 hours ago, Kimy said:

I guess I pointed that out to defeat your argument that mods cannot be "professional" because they are "just an add-on". There is no intrinsic reason why mods can't be professional, just because they require a base game to run. Beth is actually selling mods (Creation Club), so that's professional modding, no?

Do you know what professionalism is, it is a mod to create without using the tools of Bethesda!
and few are able to do that, see other games (not from Beth) there modify Professional modders!
I want by no means say thereby, that yours work is bad, it's just not professional.