SE Compatibility Tracking (Apr 23)

[GenioMaestro]

1 hour ago, nomkaz said:

As far as I understand, using ESPs in Form 43 dirties up your game saves. The more Form 43 ESPs you have the more often you need to clean your game saves. I've found this to be 100% true in my experience.

NOT... Your game and yours savegames are broken for others motives. Search yours problems in other side:

https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/5lyvf6/actual_relevance_of_forms_4344/

 

As you can read SSE only add some new records and add new options to some old records.

The new records only can be created ussing the SSE CK and none oldrim mod can have any of them.

Converting the ESP to format 44 not give any real benefit. Only can give problems.

Skyrim SE perfectly support format 43 and work without any problem ussing format 43.

 

The real big problem seems to be caused by the changes in the VMAD:

VMAD - added "large references"

When you save the ESP in format 44 all the VMAD records are updated and you MUST recompile all the scripts for match the new structure.

If the ESP have format 43 and the scripts are compiled in format 43 the game never can have any problem.

If you save the ESP in format 44 and NOT recompile the scripts the game can go crazy and start the problems.

 

Additionally, the meshs and textures must be converted to the new format.

 

Stop thinking that any problem that you can have in your game is caused by the format 43.

[Tron91]

Spoiler

27 minutes ago, GenioMaestro said:

The real big problem seems to be caused by the changes in the VMAD:

VMAD - added "large references"

When you save the ESP in format 44 all the VMAD records are updated and you MUST recompile all the scripts for match the new structure.

If the ESP is format 43 and the scripts are compiled in format 43 the game never can have any problem.

If you save the ESP in format 44 and NOT recompile the scripts the game can go crazy and start the problems.

 

 

 

Hmm that's the sole reason why some scripted mods get borked when we use the official method of porting by resaving the esp while not recompiling the scripts due to non-availability of source scripts.

 

Well the saying holds true then, "When something is working, why fix it?"

[WandererZero]

19 minutes ago, Tron91 said:

Well the saying holds true then, "When something is working, why fix it?"

I couldn't have put it better. I mean, if @nomkaz has some examples of this type of behavior...I'm all for seeing them. I'd love some clarification here. But, it's my understanding that the 43 flag is benign on SSE if nothing new has been introduced into the mod that uses types from 44.

[GenioMaestro]

6 minutes ago, Tron91 said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Hmm that's the sole reason why some scripted mods get borked when we use the official method of porting by resaving the esp while not recompiling the scripts due to non-availability of source scripts.

 

Well the saying holds true then, "When something is working, why fix it?"

From a technical point of view save the ESP in format 44 is not recomended. Theorically, nothing inside the ESP can cause CTD. If the mod works in LE must work in SE because the ESP in format 43 are perfectly suported.

 

The problem start when some mesh and textures not have the correct format.

If we can correct it with external tools like NifScope or Cathedral is not necesary touch the ESP.

If we open the ESP in the CK of SSE for make changes in the mesh or textures the saved ESP have format 44 and, appart of the changes we make, the CK make a lot of aditional changes.

 

Can not add new records but change the modified record with the new structure. None of them can give us problems because a record with a null or cero value in the new options can not be a problem for the game.

Only the scripts can have problems but not all. That can depend of the script and the numbers of parameters and the type of link... I'm not sure about when the CK use the new record of "Large Reference" but when the script has not been recompiled for use it the problems start.

[Nharra]

All this has been very informative, thank you, guys

[tasairis]

? LET US SING THE SONG OF DOOM AND GLOOM ?

[pburnt]

14 minutes ago, tasairis said:

? LET US SING THE SONG OF DOOM AND GLOOM ?

I had doooom in my head when I saw the announcement. lol

[Tron91]

Check :: Automatic Updates :: Disabled

[nomkaz]

20 hours ago, GenioMaestro said:

NOT... Your game and yours savegames are broken for others motives. Search yours problems in other side:

https://www.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/5lyvf6/actual_relevance_of_forms_4344/

 

As you can read SSE only add some new records and add new options to some old records.

The new records only can be created ussing the SSE CK and none oldrim mod can have any of them.

Converting the ESP to format 44 not give any real benefit. Only can give problems.

Skyrim SE perfectly support format 43 and work without any problem ussing format 43.

 

The real big problem seems to be caused by the changes in the VMAD:

VMAD - added "large references"

When you save the ESP in format 44 all the VMAD records are updated and you MUST recompile all the scripts for match the new structure.

If the ESP have format 43 and the scripts are compiled in format 43 the game never can have any problem.

If you save the ESP in format 44 and NOT recompile the scripts the game can go crazy and start the problems.

 

Additionally, the meshs and textures must be converted to the new format.

 

Stop thinking that any problem that you can have in your game is caused by the format 43.

Yet, when I convert the  ESP to Form 44, the dirty game saves problem goes away. I've converted over 130 mods to SE and only 3-4 had a problem with scripts after converting. The real problem comes when you convert it, then recompile all the scripts (when the source is available) then the quest stage don't trigger at all, even with all the right boxes ticked in CK. The mod was bugged to begin with, and recompiling fixed the CTD issues it had. I haven't thought or recompiling them in Form 43 though. I'll give that a shot and see how it runs. I know there's more to mods than I know, but I wouldn't be assertive about the Form 44 unless I had ample experience with it fixing the dirty game saves issues. If it's something else causing the dirty sames, I'm all ears. I want to offer the highest quality conversions that I can make, if there's something you know that I don't then please educate me.

[Dreamer1986]

The facial expressions mod doesn't seem to work. Isn't it supposed to work by default during scenes? Or am I supposed to use another mod to make it load up the expressions?

[Kristus Kringle]

8 minutes ago, Dreamer1986 said:

The facial expressions mod doesn't seem to work. Isn't it supposed to work by default during scenes? Or am I supposed to use another mod to make it load up the expressions?

You need mfgfix and I use "Expressive Facial Animation" (Nexus) but they don't always work well. Maybe it's just me but facial animations seem problematic in Skyrim.

[Pfiffy]

Well, I usually resave the esp's to make them stop yelling... I never needed to recompile the scripts, but I sometimes have to check the script properties. the new CK sometimes looses them. You also have to open the Weapon entries and close them again, to solve errors in SSE Edit. If the oldrim Version runs good with Tesedit errors, You just have to check if the error messages change after resaving. If they do, you are usually in trouble. 

[4nk8r]

Skyrim.esm that ships with SkyrimSE is full of different form types scattered in and among other records.  Don't believe me?  Open up skyrim.esm in xEdit, expand Action, look at the very 1st record there.  ActionIdle.  Record header, Form version = 15.  This form 44 myth is just that.  No need for form 44 unless you need the data types/sizes it provides.  If the mod never had those values, or has a blend of different form types mixed around the records, it amounts to nothing.  They are all compatible in the SE engine.  The attempt to change the form type is just introducing another chance for human error to take its toll, and for no concrete reason.  It's almost like a religious rite being blindly performed on the mod to exorcise the digital demons.  Stop the nonsense.

[SpyVsPie]

13 minutes ago, 4nk8r said:

 It's almost like a religious rite being blindly performed on the mod to exorcise the digital demons.  Stop the nonsense.

But we must pray to the machine spirits and perform the holy form change! Praise be to the Omnissiah 

 

I'm so happy that more and more people are finally pointing out the silliness of this form 44 crap.

[GenioMaestro]

2 hours ago, 4nk8r said:

Skyrim.esm that ships with SkyrimSE is full of different form types scattered in and among other records.  Don't believe me?  Open up skyrim.esm in xEdit, expand Action, look at the very 1st record there.  ActionIdle.  Record header, Form version = 15.  This form 44 myth is just that.  No need for form 44 unless you need the data types/sizes it provides.  If the mod never had those values, or has a blend of different form types mixed around the records, it amounts to nothing.  They are all compatible in the SE engine.  The attempt to change the form type is just introducing another chance for human error to take its toll, and for no concrete reason.  It's almost like a religious rite being blindly performed on the mod to exorcise the digital demons.  Stop the nonsense.

Totally true. Have the header of the ESP in form 44, really, make nothing. Is a simple indicative of the maximun form type that can have the ESP, as a main indicator of the version of the ESP. But the game make absolutelly nothing with it.

Each record have a diferent form type, depending of the data inserted in the record, and the game read the header of each record before read the record. A lot of records are stored in form 15, 30, 40 and nothing happend because each record can have a diferent form version depending of their own data.

When we save the ESP in format 44 only some records are converted and 90% of the records remain the same.

 

Other cause of problems seems to be the errors inside the ESP's and when the CK of SSE read the ESP clear that errors and cause problem in the ESP, because lost properties and conection data, and the ESP can stop working correctly. But the problems are not caused by the change of the form value in the header of the ESP. Are caused because the CK try solve and correct problems inside the ESP.

 

If any person are saving the ESP in format 44 only for remove the message of the version must stop make it.

That can cause problems inside the ESP, can break the scripts and can cause the ESP stop working correctly.

[GenioMaestro]

7 hours ago, nomkaz said:

Yet, when I convert the  ESP to Form 44, the dirty game saves problem goes away. I've converted over 130 mods to SE and only 3-4 had a problem with scripts after converting. The real problem comes when you convert it, then recompile all the scripts (when the source is available) then the quest stage don't trigger at all, even with all the right boxes ticked in CK. The mod was bugged to begin with, and recompiling fixed the CTD issues it had. I haven't thought or recompiling them in Form 43 though. I'll give that a shot and see how it runs. I know there's more to mods than I know, but I wouldn't be assertive about the Form 44 unless I had ample experience with it fixing the dirty game saves issues. If it's something else causing the dirty sames, I'm all ears. I want to offer the highest quality conversions that I can make, if there's something you know that I don't then please educate me.

If you can provide a savegame with that dirty data we can start looking for the problem. But i really doubth can be caused by the form 43. The game store a gigantic amount of information inside the savegame but, normally, the problem in the savegames are caused by a problematic mod making bad things.

[4nk8r]

It's not to say there isn't one or more situations where a formerly v43 record now needs to be v44...even if for no other reason than the engine now just narrowly expects that to be the case.  As GenioMaestro says, please give us some savegames to examine to investigate your findings.  Steps to reproduce...anything we can work with to move towards a better understanding.  I'm willing to set up a new profile and try out some mods I might otherwise not have/use if it will help define this.

 

At any rate, the conversion process (and programs that check for conformity with v44) appear to only be evaluating/altering the form version value found in the main File Header of the mod, not all of the child data contained deeper in the plugins.  Either that or those programs are utterly failing to detect the form version soup present in the core plugins.  Or perhaps the core mods are being excluded from conformity checking because it is being incorrectly assumed they are already pure v44 from end to end?

[Seeker999]

I like the new listing mode. Thank you.

[pburnt]

Goblins in next update. This is a good opportunity for someone to make a Goblin Slayer mod. Hint hint.

[Kristus Kringle]

3 hours ago, pburnt said:

Goblins in next update. This is a good opportunity for someone to make a Goblin Slayer mod. Hint hint.

I would thumbs up this post but I can't in this thread so ... ?

[ssskn]

I would like to report that I got this version of submit to work: https://www.loverslab.com/topic/19709-sexlab-submit-01sep14-1133/page/202/

Get this 5way version and use it as is. Don't convert to 44.

On 11/19/2018 at 9:50 PM, smashly said:

Quite simply convert it yourself , open esp in Ck and then save it....

Works fine in SSE..

Well i don't use the rape or hand in submitted npcs.

I also don't use Serena or Vex..

 

I mainly use it for sneaky player grapple rape and consensual asking as well..

Which both work fine.

I'm also using a modified version I posted a while ago in this thread, that allows you to have consensual 5 ways (standard submit only allows 3 way).

 

I gather the forum has been using a back up, due to when I originally posted the modified version it was on page 246 of this thread...

Now this thread only goes to page 201.

 

Here's the old 5 way I posted before for OLDRIM: SexLab-Submit 23FEB15 1036 Edit 5 Way.7z  <<<<Full mod

 

Note:

Make sure you have registered 5 or 4 way animations, otherwise your group will silently walk away when sex should start..

Please READ carefully:

I tested nearly all of Submit's features and they all work, even with defeat installed. I loaded Submit and then Defeat, in that order (back to back), on both Left and Right side of MO2.

In Submit's McM, I set male/female choice to a 2.

Increased Range to 2000.

Enabled DA/prevent bleedout option at 0 HP.

Creature support to 0. I don't use creatures.

I can post screenshots of McM if anyone really needs it.

 

In Defeat, I tested manual Surrender and that worked as well. I don't use combat features of Defeat.

 

Only thing was that at the end of Defeat, none of the outcomes happened and PC just sat there in trauma and until the bar was filled via button mashing game. This can use a bit more testing, trying different outcomes and changing between Trauma and End option in post assault tab. I ended up setting it to End the scene, so I don't have to mash to get up.  

 

Also keep in mind, it's not stupid proof so don't try to trigger both mods at once and let each one play out till the end.

 

I was able to submit enemies with the shout, capture them, and turn them all in. I had 1 CTD when I offered the enemy to my follower but the follower walked away and then upon CoC game crashed. I was CoCing to get across map, so could be a runaway script or my 8gb Vram maxed... But upon reload, I was able to CoC and turn the enemy in to a guard. 

 

Another nice interaction was with NFF, where the submitted enemy could be recruited as a mercenary follower by offering them gold. 

 

Anyways try this combo for yourself and decide. If you do test it, please let me know how well Defeat's combat options work -the Defeat scenario based on HP can bug out and trigger both mods if your HP drops fast, but the other two options should work (stamina?? and stun?? dont remember exactly). You can set button mashing difficulty to easy (if enemy is standing over you: mash a bit, pause a bit, then repeat) or disable it completely in post assault.

 

 

[Nymra]

44 minutes ago, ssskn said:

I would like to report that I got this version of submit to work: https://www.loverslab.com/topic/19709-sexlab-submit-01sep14-1133/page/202/

Get this 5way version and use it as is. Don't convert to 44.

 

Please READ carefully:

I tested nearly all of Submit's features and they all work, even with defeat installed. I loaded Submit and then Defeat, in that order (back to back), on both Left and Right side of MO2.

In Submit's McM, I set male/female choice to a 2.

Increased Range to 2000.

Enabled DA/prevent bleedout option at 0 HP.

Creature support to 0. I don't use creatures.

I can post screenshots of McM if anyone really needs it.

 

In Defeat, I tested manual Surrender and that worked as well. I don't use combat features of Defeat.

 

Only thing was that at the end of Defeat, none of the outcomes happened and PC just sat there in trauma and until the bar was filled via button mashing game. This can use a bit more testing, trying different outcomes and changing between Trauma and End option in post assault tab. I ended up setting it to End the scene, so I don't have to mash to get up.  

 

Also keep in mind, it's not stupid proof so don't try to trigger both mods at once and let each one play out till the end.

 

I was able to submit enemies with the shout, capture them, and turn them all in. I had 1 CTD when I offered the enemy to my follower but the follower walked away and then upon CoC game crashed. I was CoCing to get across map, so could be a runaway script or my 8gb Vram maxed... But upon reload, I was able to CoC and turn the enemy in to a guard. 

 

Another nice interaction was with NFF, where the submitted enemy could be recruited as a mercenary follower by offering them gold. 

 

Anyways try this combo for yourself and decide. If you do test it, please let me know how well Defeat's combat options work -the Defeat scenario based on HP can bug out and trigger both mods if your HP drops fast, but the other two options should work (stamina?? and stun?? dont remember exactly). You can set button mashing difficulty to easy (if enemy is standing over you: mash a bit, pause a bit, then repeat) or disable it completely in post assault.

 

 

Isn't Submit already broken in normal Skyrim? I got all kind of weird behaviour using that. I did not think anybody is still using the mod at all. 
Is there some patch/fix I missed? (for Oldrim)?

[ZI0MATRIX]

13 hours ago, pburnt said:

Goblins in next update. This is a good opportunity for someone to make a Goblin Slayer mod. Hint hint.

If you look at the announcement one of the first comments about the Goblin follower refers to Tirk the horny Riekling follower.... I love it....

[ssskn]

3 hours ago, Nymra said:

Isn't Submit already broken in normal Skyrim? I got all kind of weird behaviour using that. I did not think anybody is still using the mod at all. 
Is there some patch/fix I missed? (for Oldrim)?

No idea about LE, but apparently in that thread, somebody mentions 45+ pages of the thread missing and working version gone from downloads. Even so, the version that worked for me should work for LE. Try it out, maybe? Takes what like 10 mins to test, coc to a place with bandits. And make sure to set McM first; preference to both genders, set range to max 2000, no creatures, and activate auto surrender+player submit (idk default settings). Turn off other combat surrender mods. And load right before Defeat, otherwise it doesn't give me dialogue option of "submit or die" after forcing the enemy to surrender -rest works ok.

 

Here you go: bandits cave. Get killed by them or submit to them, after sheathing weps/magic.

coc LostKnifeHideout01

[FauxFurry]

15 hours ago, pburnt said:

Goblins in next update. This is a good opportunity for someone to make a Goblin Slayer mod. Hint hint.

Psychics excel at taking the initiative when taking hints.

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/95391

https://kp4068.tistory.com/3026?category=584300