LL starts to become an adverticement site for patreon downloads

[R-Lo]

3 minutes ago, Trykz said:

Modding has NEVER been something people have done to make a living. What's counter-intuitive, is trying to convince people that by charging for mods it is somehow different than Bethesda and their bullshit creation club, and then trying to justify it by saying you only charge because you have kids and work hard in your daily chosen vocation. You think I don't bust my ass every day at work? Modding has ALWAYS been a free enterprise where the only payment ever "expected" was the praise of the user for a quality addition to their leisure time activity. Take a look at the Oblivion section if you doubt that. Or the Skyrim section. Or the Fallout section. THOUSANDS of mods by HUNDREDS of modders doing their thing for ONE simple reason:

 

Their own personal gratification, and the recognition they receive from the users of the mods they create for the games they love.

 

So yeah, if you require payment for your stuff, you're no better than Bethesda and that fucking creation club travesty.

 

Trykz

Lucky I don't play Bethesda and the modding community isn't as vocal and appreciated as you make out, 

Seems that majority will happily contribute to bullshit threads like this yet it's a chore to encourage people into learning how to make mods and continue,

People don't "require" payment for mods,  just some are willing to make more than a couple here and there if time permits,

 

So people modded for free for a few years, so did most game developers at some stage, things evolve,

People just gotta get used to that

[Trykz]

2 minutes ago, R-Lo said:

Lucky I don't play Bethesda and the modding community isn't as vocal and appreciated as you make out, 

Seems that majority will happily contribute to bullshit threads like this yet it's a chore to encourage people into learning how to make mods and continue,

People don't "require" payment for mods,  just some are willing to make more than a couple here and there if time permits,

 

So people modded for free for a few years, so did most game developers at some stage, things evolve,

People just gotta get used to that

And now you know why many quality modders have gone from the modding scene. and more follow every day. This bullshit "entitlement" theory today's generation has wrapped itself in. "Gimme NOW! Here's a couple bucks"..... You think modders EVER made mods "for you"? LOL.... modders create mods for themselves FIRST AND FOREMOST. And THEN share them with others. That natural order has ALWAYS existed ever since modding video games began.

 

Guess you better "get used" to fixing your own damn toilet or septic system, right? Or are you going to just "get used to" shitting in a box outside like they did a hundred years ago?

 

This "bullshit thread" exists EXACTLY because of ass-backward thinking like that.

 

Trykz

[yomak]

some might say that Lovers lab is becoming a site for advertising Patreon. :O

[R-Lo]

9 minutes ago, Trykz said:

And now you know why many quality modders have gone from the modding scene. and more follow every day. This bullshit "entitlement" theory today's generation has wrapped itself in. "Gimme NOW! Here's a couple bucks"..... You think modders EVER made mods "for you"? LOL.... modders create mods for themselves FIRST AND FOREMOST. And THEN share them with others. That natural order has ALWAYS existed ever since modding video games began.

 

Guess you better "get used" to fixing your own damn toilet or septic system, right? Or are you going to just "get used to" shitting in a box outside like they did a hundred years ago?

 

This "bullshit thread" exists EXACTLY because of ass-backward thinking like that.

 

Trykz

Funnily enough I've known more free modders to leave because of these threads, yes modders create for themselves first, that's a given, but some of are lucky enough to be repeatedly asked for more and it's nice that in 2017 there is a way for those who can't to provide that, 

I requested some stuff and it wasn't high on anyone's agenda so I learned myself rather than bitch about waiting for it, fyi I fix my own bathroom too so no boxes for us 

If people wanna be bitter about the fact that patreon wasn't there when they started, it's no different to someone 100 years ago shitting on a box complaining about the fact that one day the world will have indoor plumbing 

[Andy14]

@Trykz

I know many who have said goodbye to the modding scene. My person included. For no one of these modders and me has payment played a role.
But just - let's call it respect.
Be it mundane things like copyright, moderators who give priority to illegal uploads on their pages, or discussions with people who are rather uncontrolled in their choice of words.
No author has to offer the stupidity or audacity of a moderator, or even the arrogant sayings.

You do that 3x, 4, maybe 10x. Then you think - why actually. And goodbye.
That is - in my view - the reason why many authors turn off the tap.

 

The turning away of many authors started VERY long time before pay-stories.

[Halstrom]

Well users whined and put a lid on paid modding, now they got subscribed modding instead, good plan............
I don't think I've ever clicked a link for Paytron and never will, I'd rather pay Steam $50 bucks for a good mod than lock my credit card into a $5-$10 a month ritual for 12months.

[yomak]

also. pretty sure calling paywalls "Donations" is a loophole to not to get sued by the original game makers. since you know your ultimately profiting off of a modification of their original software. bet your not paying royalties to the original makers. oh? free use? ummm doesn't count when you charge people to recieve your non stand alone modification.

 

anyway, why do people charge for content, that won't even work without Turbodrivers free mod? like. thats stupid. its like your using him to gain a quick buck. how about instead of forcing people to pay you. you make them pay him instead? his shits worth it. especially seeing as your stuff won't work without his. and also. God Bless Arma27

[R-Lo]

3 minutes ago, yomak said:

also. pretty sure calling paywalls "Donations" is a loophole to not to get sued by the original game makers. since you know your ultimately profiting off of a modification of their original software. bet your not paying royalties to the original makers. oh? free use? ummm doesn't count when you charge people to recieve your non stand alone modification.

 

anyway, why do people charge for content, that won't even work without Turbodrivers free mod? like. thats stupid. its like your using him to gain a quick buck. how about instead of forcing people to pay you. you make them pay him instead? his shits worth it. especially seeing as your stuff won't work without his. and also. God Bless Arma27

 

 

His stuff won't work without ours and vice versa,

 

It's called a community building a mod,

Amra is good yes but not obligated and will not ever be, many people have even "begged" him to open a patreon so they can lock him into a routine, 

And we don't profit from them software, only the effort we put into materials given,

A blacksmith isn't repeatedly charged royalties for every time he swings a hammer,

 

 

 

Demonize anyway you like, it's old, sad and wasting time

[Bazinga]

1 hour ago, 27X said:

 

Snitch?

 

roflmao the mod in question is the size of house and has a thread with PAGES, not posts going now into the hundreds, and the "author" whom doesn't not even have a meg of original, 100% self made content in said mod) can't even be assed to provide support except when it's time for more money to beg, and now scivirus is doing the same thing, so now both standardized bodies have paywall shit until such time as full SMP packages come along, IF the people working on them decide to make them public and deal with all the issue that entails, and those packages will still rely on other author's work for logistical and total-package (texture, outfit, scripting, mod integration/compatibility) support, in other words, community support from other authors AND users alike.

 

Sorry if you can't even bother to police your own goddamn mod for MONTHS, you shouldn't be getting free advertising from the site, especially when literally on the same page there are at least four other mods where people are busting their ass providing support they don't have to for FREE on THEIR time, including you.

 

That's bullshit and you know it.

We're not even talking about the same mod, dude.  ;)

Can't remember when I last checked out the one you are talking about, I pretty much gave up on it tbh.

 

1 hour ago, Trykz said:

So yeah, if you require payment for your stuff, you're no better than Bethesda and that fucking creation club travesty.

Bullshit.

 

If I even remotely wanted to get all the physics stuff that I specialized in to the level that I'd like to see it at I might think about opening a Patreon and dialing down my RL job (not that that would be possible but whatever) too.

But I'm not that committed and I fully respect that others might be and that their results might be better than mine if they turn this into a kind of part time job with all the obligations to their "customers" involved.

I also respect that they want compensation then. And as long as that's possible with donations I don't have any issues with it. But my work ethic would force me to treat my patrons just like customers, I can't just accept money like that. I don't want that additional stress, others seem to be okay with it.

Which is their business and totally fine, no need to point fingers.

 

The point where I draw the line is when paywalled Patreons and free mods get lumped together.

Anyone who paywalls stuff needs to get outta here, this isn't the right forum for them.

3 months patron-exclusive is way too long already but okay, that's not my decision to make.

[Guest]

I don't like the idea of the paywall for mods.

 

Rule: We are a free and open community; members requiring payment for mods, support, or putting anything behind a paywall will be removed without warning. Donation buttons/links to support an author is fine, so long as nothing is promised, given, or rewarded other than a sense of satisfaction for supporting an author or owner of content. 

 

To me, it seems like it's very hypocritical.

 

It also seems like the rule needs to be changed to fit the current circumstances.

[mirlo1]

@Bazinga you diddn´t see the sims 4 forums it started to become like a shopping page. If you like this mod go to patreon and buy it.

LL starts to become to a mod shopping page there.

And i think they don´t pay LL for linking to there patreon pages.

But if this forum gets a shopping page it´s over here.

[RitualClarity]

6 hours ago, CPU said:

Again, if you find a single author does not respect the rule: Things should be free for everybody, with a max 3 months delay

Then just report it, and - PLEASE - add some description to your report.

^ the answer is above. The site has given these allowances to authors to collect them and allow them to exist where otherwise they might not. This is the nature of the world now and has changed from those that just did it for fun and complements.

 

those that are complaining... should watch their favorite mods and make sure the authors are following the rules and if not report them so that this can be corrected. This site itself is supported by Patron so it is pretty dam difficult to condemn the process now. It was needed to pay the ever mounting and increasing bandwith cost for the site alone.

 

I have provided support for members here for a number of years, it took me many years and still I am learning different games and situations to help support. It wasn't something that happened over night. Support is a far cry easier than actual modding. It takes 1000's of hours to become great at the job for many that try.

 

As mentioned before... those that know and want more "fully free" mods for Sims and others, need to help the new generations get up to speed faster and gain a greater set of skills and tools quickly in order to expect any change.

 

I would like to think if I started creating content for games that I would be giving it free, however, I am fairly confident if I was puting in the time that I suspect WW creation was needing, I am pretty dam sure I would be using some form of compensation to offset the shear massive amount of time needed to develop and keep it current.

 

My only though/request would be that once an author had a fix for his patron for a patched game in which the current released free mod for the game was broken by... that the fix, and only the fix, was added to the free mod version ASAP (when created and verified on the Paid version) so that people can continue to use the game and not feel forced to pay to get an update to a mod that they love just to get it to work again. I am not talking about any new content, just the basic fix only. This would allow someone to go through and keep on playing their game for free using the freely released mod and not have to pay for the patch to get their mod to work. Otherwise, it is a very great pressure to pay to support. The user should want to support the author for what they have created, for new content that the user greatly desires and isn't willing to wait for and not for a patch to get their game working again.

 

This is the only addition to what CPU states as the rules for Patron or other pay options I would suggest. The wait for up to 3 months for new features seens fair. It is a bit long and I understand that. If you can't wait give support. If you can't support, you can still use the mod as it would work even with updates.

 

(^ was referencing the Sims update recently that seriously broke many mods. )

 

Quote

The point where I draw the line is when paywalled Patreons and free mods get lumped together.

I can see that point... when you have both side by side lumped together. That is a fair point.

[Too_Funky1987]

to be fair, most of the animation creators on here do upload their creations to loverslab as well. However I'm well aware some have moved to being patreon-only, and it's bloody annoying I mean I sincerely would make a donation but for poor sods like me , flat broke and Xmas coming and having to foot many bills, it just can't happen yet.

 

People should be able to donate if they like, but not be forced to. I'm sure many would still donate to the better modders. 

 

If I was a creator  would upload everything I made for free and it's not about being a goody goody. I understand what it's like to not be able to shell out money for stuff and it sucks. 

 

TF.

[mirlo1]

Sims 4 just lost alot modders because of patreon. Before that all ppl that were able to mod modded the game together and the mods grew up. The game became more interesting with hundrets of mods (1 mod alone isn´t a game changer) and than more thought what they want to have inside the game and started by themself to create mods. Now you need to buy many mods before you have interesting content and this leads to that other arn´t interested to make mods because the modded game isn´t much more interesting than the unmodded.

Look at games were the modding community isn´t patreon based like skyrim, sims 3 and so on there you found in just no time mods spreaded. But in sims 4 nothing like that is happening.

[Bazinga]

1 hour ago, Andy14 said:

 

Lass Bazinga in Ruhe.

Er ist ein alter hilfloser Mann, der selbst bei der Aufnahme im Knast einen Schapka trug um sein erbärmliches Alter und seine Platte nicht in den Akten zu wissen.

Alt, aber eitel

 

@27x - war ein Joke

 

@Bazinga - für dich nicht ;)

XD

Der alte Mann hat nach wie vor alle Zähne, also nimm dich in Acht, Bürschchen! 

[mirlo1]

Another idea would be a special forum sector for patreon mods. Than at least you dont have to look through 100 threads to find 1 that isn´t commercial. And for that threads there they should have to pay LL. Would be interesting about their whining than.

[gregathit]

2 minutes ago, mirlo1 said:

Another idea would be a special forum sector for patreon mods. Than at least you dont have to look through 100 threads to find 1 that isn´t commercial.

That isn't going to happen as it is expressly what the rules are designed to forbid.

 

As for this thread, there is already an existing thread in the Sims4 section and since most of this is about sims anyway, how about we close this thread and point the existing one:  https://www.loverslab.com/topic/86777-anybody-else-getting-annoyed-with-patreon-support/