LL starts to become an adverticement site for patreon downloads

[mirlo1]

LL starts to become an adverticement site for patreon downloads. This site becomes more and more aweful. I see alot threads that uploaded content month ago but every day there are new content update threads for patreon pages. Exspecialy sims 4 is such a forum. Where did the good old days go when ambious modders made mods for the community and not as fast money grab. And it seems that LL is doing nothing against the new behaviour.

[Farmthat]

The solution is for more people to start modding at a beginner level to replace those that "level up."

[Redabyss]

18 minutes ago, Farmthat said:

The solution is for more people to start modding at a beginner level to replace those that "level up."

Yeah and being ignored, or even join those that "level up". :/ It's not that simple.

[GrimReaper]

Well, they opened that box by not sticking to their own rules. As far as I remember, LL started out with 'no mods behind any kind of paywall whatsoever' yet they decided to turn a blind eye towards 'early patreon releases'.

[Guest]

Paywall rules do still apply.

We do not allow any sort of game or mod that you have to pay to get.

 

We are OK with people giving an early access to mods and such on Patreon (and similar tools) but after a set of months (usually max 3 months) whatever was posted has to be published for free.

 

In case you find a mod that is not respecting the rule, just report it and it will be removed.

(Of course, we cannot check directly all the mods like that, because they are hundreds.)

[t.ara]

Yes, we are doing this "like a hobby" and want to share our stuff...and be glad, if others like to play it:-))

 

 

[Deviljho-san]

Eventhough i can't make mods worth shit. I can agree with t.ara at least they deserve some rewards then a good job. For what i know modding takes a lot of time and isn't easy.

[fred200]

I am still searching for the "Like" button...

CPU, thanks for stating the site policy.

I have been bugged by the Patreon paywall too.

I will keep an eye on those mods, and flag them if they abuse your policy.

[Farmthat]

9 hours ago, Redabyss said:

Yeah and being ignored, or even join those that "level up". :/ It's not that simple.

It's absolutely that simple. 

 

Modding is a LOT of work and I think that's lost on a lot of people. It's natural that people--after a point--often want compensation for what they're spending thousands of hours on, particularly as their skills grow.

 

There are swarms of people who just consume mods--and that's great, but rather than bemoan the shrinking number of content creators, whether to death by old age or moving behind a paywall, there's only ONE way to replace them and boost new free mods, and that's by more users picking up the torch and learning to mod themselves. That's how it has always worked.

[Redabyss]

I agree. But have you seen the Patreon section of The Sims 4?

The solution would be forcing animators to update after a month, if they use LL as a showecase, and being less lenient.

[Shadowhawk827]

32 minutes ago, Farmthat said:

It's absolutely that simple. 

 

Modding is a LOT of work and I think that's lost on a lot of people. It's natural that people--after a point--often want compensation for what they're spending thousands of hours on, particularly as their skills grow.

 

There are swarms of people who just consume mods--and that's great, but rather than bemoan the shrinking number of content creators, whether to death by old age or moving behind a paywall, there's only ONE way to replace them and boost new free mods, and that's by more users picking up the torch and learning to mod themselves. That's how it has always worked.

Very true.  For relatively new modders it's a steep learning curve and you spend more time trying to figure out how to do things than you do actually assembling the mod.

 

I spent 100s of hours hours stumbling through every conceivable pitfall imaginable learning to mod.  I'm also one of those people that always has anything and everything go wrong on projects.  NOW, I'm pretty good at troubleshooting my work.

 

My rambling and meandering point however is that I keep pushing through because it's rewarding when you finally see the finished product come together and work.  It's even more rewarding when you get a positive comment about how your mod has improved somebody's game, or you get an endorsement / thumbs up.  Anybody thinking about trying modding, I urge you to go for it.   New folks have an advantage in that there are more tutorials out than when I learned.  I spent a good 100 hours of time just trying to figure out how to get my MCM menu to work, lol.  Now Darkfox127 has a YouTube tutorial that will teach you how to do a basic on in 15 minutes.

 

 

One thing I will add though...  Those of you who are veterans that want more people involved, be willing to answer questions.  Even the "stupid" ones.  They're only stupid because you already know the answer.  To a rookie though, what they're asking about is a legit cause of confusion.  Help may mean the difference between that person quitting or becoming the next Arthmoor.

[Shadowhawk827]

14 minutes ago, Redabyss said:

I agree. But have you seen the Patreon section of The Sims 4?

The solution would be forcing animators to update after a month, if they use LL as a showecase, and being less lenient.

 

Honestly, to get back on topic, I think the answer is to just consider Patreon mods to be part of a paywall period.  Patreon is, by definition, a site for people to get paid for content.  I understand wanting to drive traffic here and encourage new modders with the current policy.  HOWEVER, it's also pretty clear it's being abused and IS turning the site into a host to advertise paid mods.

 

Maybe let folks put links to their paid / patreon mods in their signature and leave it at that.

[Redabyss]

9 minutes ago, Shadowhawk827 said:

 

Honestly, to get back on topic, I think the answer is to just consider Patreon mods to be part of a paywall period.  Patreon is, by definition, a site for people to get paid for content.  I understand wanting to drive traffic here and encourage new modders with the current policy.  HOWEVER, it's also pretty clear it's being abused and IS turning the site into a host to advertise paid mods.

 

Maybe let folks put links to their paid / patreon mods in their signature and leave it at that.

That's what I'm saying.

Perhaps you guys aren't familiar with the The Sims 4 section, but it has turned into a host to advertise paid mods.

Some of the animators update after 2-3 months and require 10+ $ for early access. Frequently we have people annoyed by this and even flame because of the issue.

Not to mention, the sheer insane number of Patreon pages around.

If the moderation was stricter, and if modders were forced to update after 1 month / 1 month and half, things would roll better here.

 

 

[Shadowhawk827]

I hear yah, Red.  While I can see the other side to a degree, I agree with you as well.

 

CPU kind of lended to the argument for limiting patreon mods too by saying there are too many to properly moderate.  That alone should be a red flag to me.

[Redabyss]

I mean, I'm not against those animators. Some of them are very deserving of the money they get.

The problem is, the early access fee doubled for many pages, in comparison to the start of this year, and animators started updating way too late, with not even all the locked contents.

Personally it's not a problem to me, I can afford to support the pages I like. But very often I hear unhappy people who would like the situation to be changed.

Again, this issue is very focused in the The Sims 4 section. The problem was born mainly because:

 

1- Learning how to create animations is very easy, and

2- The popularity of WickedWhims, and how much money some authors do.

 

We have like 20-25 Patreon pages. Do your math... :P

[Guest]

Again, if you find a single author does not respect the rule: Things should be free for everybody, with a max 3 months delay

Then just report it, and - PLEASE - add some description to your report.

[Shadowhawk827]

I get that too, Red.  Hopefully others understand it as well.

 

I'm a cheap bastard so a paid mod would have to be something world class for me to pay for it, BUT I say let the free market decide if a mod is worth money.  Just don't turn this site into free advertising for them.

 

My own mods are forever free because modding is a hobby and labor of love to me, not out of any hatred of people wanting to make a living.

[Farmthat]

I'm not familiar with the sims4 community here. Skyrim modding has an extremely strong core of free mods and very, very little patreon-only content. There are a few tip jars I guess.

 

sorry to hear that it's in such a bad state over in the Sims. My advice would be to ignore the paid mods as much as possible and show your support for people working for free--make them the center of what it means to be a sims mod. 

 

Like shadowhawk said, not all modders mod for money, they do it simply because they want to and the only reward they desire is to feel their work is appreciated. Encourage these people.

 

also, there's probably a cultural tipping point that has been reached where charging for mods has become the norm, and so everyone new thinks they ought to, too.

[Simite]

Okay maybe I am not the best person to respond to this but I'm going to throw in my 10 cents, the people who complaining about "pay walling" and LL becoming an advertisment for Patreon support, sound like spoiled children crying that they don't get enough video games for birthday after their parents just buy them a console and a couple games. Like stop being so spoiled, there's over 2000 free animations, the Karma sutra only has 64 positions and people will pay $14 to buy a book with that written in it on amazon. so paying a few dollars per month in support for content that's being created for your entertainment is nothing new. Trying to force creators into a "free or nothing" situation is only going to mean you get lower quality content and fewer creators since some of those creators rely on some sort of monetary gain for the many hours they invest into creating.

 

there will of course be some people who take too many liberties but don't try to tar all the community with that brush since its actually not even bad, there may be a small handful of creators that arn't exactly following the rules but that could also be for a veriaty of reasons, familly/health issues. but MOST of the creators follow the rules exactly and release their content for free after a couple months on patreon early access.

 

You wouldn't walk into an art gallery and say "theres not enough free art on these walls for me to look at" "God damn painters paywalling their latest paintings for exlusive buyers only." 

 

Okay, rant over. I could go on, but I've said enough.

[Guest]

There is one particular mod that's gone over 3 months now without a public update... I won't say which one it is publicly, but I'm going to report it.

[Princessity]

I think CPU said everything that ever needed to be said on the subject. If you see someone who's breaking the 3-month exclusivity rule, report them and include detailed notes with clear evidence of infraction. Moderators will take care of it directly and quietly and the rest of us will be spared drama, civil war and witch-hunts ^^

 

Trying to sensationalise it, preaching about modding ethics, calling for boycotts and mob justice and all that is simply not the way to go about this.

[R-Lo]

It's the same every third week of the month, somebody starts a thread like this for people complain about supported mods while forgetting or just ignorant to the fact that the "free" site they claim to be flaming for actually receives support from Patreon and maybe some other forms to keep it running too,

 

Fair enough that too many pages are appearing but you can't treat all them with the same resentment,

 

As far as animation goes, sure it's easy to pick up but expectations are very high, some for quality and some for quantity and it's impossible to please everyone at that level, paid or unpaid,

 

Many people have started up and receive a bit of praise for the first couple uploads and then end up being ignored or just plain put off by people's attitudes,

 

People wanna complain about seeing preview for patreon throughout the month but if these modders were unsupported and worked when they felt like it, there would be no regular updates and you'd be potentially waiting a lot longer for a considerably smaller upload,

 

However you want to see it, patreon is ultimately enabling more free content,

Those who aren't playing by the rules should be reported as CPU says, instead of another starting pointless thread like this that just makes people end up looking like over entitled whiners despite not knowing about half the effort and time this takes,

 

Sure there's a lot of patreon pages but there's probably just as many threads demonizing them, all started by people that can barely manage thanks which in many opinions is far worse than looking to continue a project that might not normally be possible,

 

Not all of us have boundless amounts of time and nothing to do, 

Myself..... I'm a single parent with VERY little free time, many people like my work despite being an amateur and together they've encouraged me to continue,

It's the same for more people too... if people see something and want more, are we really that bad for having a way to deliver and still afford to eat every day after sacrificing time and paid hours by taking a lesser job to give more to the gaming community?

 

Patreon isn't the problem,

Just the people who ridicule simple mods and then in the same breath take for granted the stuff that's been thoroughly worked and developed

 

[Bazinga]

I don't like Patreon either and I think that the whole getting paid aspect takes away a lot from the open source spirit of communities like this.

 

But if people want to get paid for this so be it.

 

I'd really love to see this 3 months time limit being enforced rigorously though.

I can think of at least one Patreon on this site that circumvents this by putting Patron-exclusive content in some "alpha" or "beta" package and then moving only a fraction of that additional content over to the free mod months later.

 

Won't tell you which mod though, cause I'm no snitch. :P

...

Maybe you could search for volunteers for the position of a "Patreon content moderator" of sorts. Would make sense imo because Patreon is indeed spreading like wildfire on this site.

[TheNoble]

I really, really like the patreon model. I feel that modders should be supported for their efforts once they get to a large enough scale, but shouldn't hide their work behind a paywall. I do small scale work on the side, so I understand what its like to "work" for free. I think the patreon model allows modders to be rewarded for what they do, and continue to produce content for the rest of us.

[mirlo1]

3 hours ago, Farmthat said:

I'm not familiar with the sims4 community here. Skyrim modding has an extremely strong core of free mods and very, very little patreon-only content. There are a few tip jars I guess.

 

sorry to hear that it's in such a bad state over in the Sims. My advice would be to ignore the paid mods as much as possible and show your support for people working for free--make them the center of what it means to be a sims mod. 

 

Like shadowhawk said, not all modders mod for money, they do it simply because they want to and the only reward they desire is to feel their work is appreciated. Encourage these people.

 

also, there's probably a cultural tipping point that has been reached where charging for mods has become the norm, and so everyone new thinks they ought to, too.

I can understand that modders like to get a biz cash. But if you search for whats new you see every day announcements to patreon updates. And that so often that you see update on patreon 100 times a day. And it destroys the modding at all. Because people dont come back after a while because to make the game works well with mods you first need to have other modders that share what they made or found. But to find them as i mentioned you first have to filter out 100 new patreon update posts. And other nice modders stop to make mods about beeing angry about seeing that many greedy modders.

I see alot modders who offfered month ago a basic mod and update it after a while a bit. But they never share their full advertised mod (so parts they showed 6 month ago are still not in the updated mod and to get the full mod they want 10$ per month!!! not only one time. (Or you lose the mod fixes updates)

I cant believe that people are willing to pay more for mods than for the full game but it must work because it grows bigger and bigger here.

It makes me realy sad to see the lose of spirit and grow of greed. Thats why i posted this thread.

 

P.s.: When i was young sharing with others was nothing special because all that can it did it. But this spirit is leaving the world.