Fertility Mode

[NymphoElf]

10 hours ago, klarthlester said:

Oh lord.... I better leave my babies at home then. I don't want them to grow inside a dungeon LOL

They don't become followers like other NPCs. They're still flagged as "child" actors. If you have adoption enabled, they'll spawn at your home as long as you still have an available adoption slot (2 by default, 6 with Hearthfire Multiple Adoptions mod).

 

If your adoption slots are full, or if you have adoption disabled, AND you have "child training" enabled, they will disappear and become a summon-able Adult follower after a certain amount of time (you use the MCM to summon them).

 

If you have "child training" turned off, and you either have adoption turned off OR have no more adoption slots left, they will simply disappear and not spawn at all.

Adopted children never become adults, and trained children are never seen unless summoned. 

[Tiress]

There seems to be a new mod on Nexus that aims to fix some bugs and improve this mod, it might be worth taking a look.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Tiress said:

There seems to be a new mod on Nexus that aims to fix some bugs and improve this mod, it might be worth taking a look.

"Improve" should be in quotes. It's a mixed bag. On the one hand, it contains major performance optimizations (200-300% faster!). This alone makes his patch basically mandatory for users of this mod. The problem is, the developer also changes mechanics to be "more realistic and complex" - read, less intuitive and less predictable - with no way to disable those changes. It also makes the codebase more complicated, which usually increases the chances of bugs. In my personal opinion he's a very skilled programmer and a bad gamedesigner. If he keeps working on his "fork" of FM, it will turn into the usual "total overhaul mod" aka "everything and the kitchen sink". On the upside, smart users can just keep using his current patch version.

[axz2]

6 hours ago, NymphoElf said:

If you have "child training" turned off, and you either have adoption turned off OR have no more adoption slots left, they will simply disappear and not spawn at all.

Adopted children never become adults, and trained children are never seen unless summoned. 

 

They disappear or they stay as babies?

[NymphoElf]

2 hours ago, axz2 said:

 

They disappear or they stay as babies?

Disappear. The baby item will despawn, effectively resulting in having "nothing" selected as the birth type. 

 

3 hours ago, lynak said:

"Improve" should be in quotes. It's a mixed bag. On the one hand, it contains major performance optimizations (200-300% faster!). This alone makes his patch basically mandatory for users of this mod. The problem is, the developer also changes mechanics to be "more realistic and complex" - read, less intuitive and less predictable - with no way to disable those changes. It also makes the codebase more complicated, which usually increases the chances of bugs. In my personal opinion he's a very skilled programmer and a bad gamedesigner. If he keeps working on his "fork" of FM, it will turn into the usual "total overhaul mod" aka "everything and the kitchen sink". On the upside, smart users can just keep using his current patch version.

I've read through what they changed and it functions identically to the base mod. 90% of the mod is optimization.

If you read the mod's description, you can very easily predict how the mod will function. It's really not that complicated.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, NymphoElf said:

Disappear. The baby item will despawn, effectively resulting in having "nothing" selected as the birth type. 

 

I've read through what they changed and it functions identically to the base mod. 90% of the mod is optimization.

If you read the mod's description, you can very easily predict how the mod will function. It's really not that complicated.

 

I could explain the basic logic to you, but odds are the mods would just delete my post for "not being polite". I would then have wasted 20 minutes of my life on doing all the brainwork for other people, only for that work to go to /dev/null.  I have better and more enjoyable ways to waste my time.

[Tiress]

1 hour ago, lynak said:

 

I could explain the basic logic to you, but odds are the mods would just delete my post for "not being polite". I would then have wasted 20 minutes of my life on doing all the brainwork for other people, only for that work to go to /dev/null.  I have better and more enjoyable ways to waste my time.

You are free to share your concerns with the author. He seems to be open to suggestions and you might give him invaluable insight into negative effects his changes possibly have.

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, Tiress said:

You are free to share your concerns with the author. He seems to be open to suggestions and you might give him invaluable insight into negative effects his changes possibly have.

I'm pretty sure that would just result in an philosophical discussion leading nowhere.  The problem isn't with the patch in its current state (which is perfectly fine as is), but the developers general mentality or "worldview". He made this mod far more performant, therefore proving he's a talented coder. But then in his own words, he used the gained ressources to start implementing complex stuff to make it "more realistic", such as uncertainities about period and fertility days. Because of how FM is designed, the same of course applies to NPCs as well, so what once was a simple timestamp-comparison turns into a more complex calculation for every tracked actor - just to have a 1-day uncertainity in the position of cycles. And that's not even considering that some players might not consider uncertainity an improvement. Yet this new feature isn't optional, because in the author's mind, the possibility that "more realistic" doesn't always equal "better for the game" doesn't even exist. And even if an option existed to turn this off, i'm not sure that would remove the performance-penalty. Beth's script engine has a history of being extremely stupid - back in the oblivion days it couldn't even optimize IF-THEN-ELSE blocks, so it would always parse all code, no matter what condition was actually true - something which no other VM on the planet does.

 

For now its just a handful new features and changes, so the above isn't really a problem. Instead the problem is the developer's mindset: He vastly optimized a mod, and then his first thought of how to use the gained performance is, stuff like cycle-uncertainities. My point was that doesn't bode well for the future.

[NymphoElf]

13 hours ago, lynak said:

 

I could explain the basic logic to you, but odds are the mods would just delete my post for "not being polite". I would then have wasted 20 minutes of my life on doing all the brainwork for other people, only for that work to go to /dev/null.  I have better and more enjoyable ways to waste my time.

This isn't exactly a good substitute.

 

Anyways...

 

If you would like to see features changed or made optional, it would be far more productive to request such things to the author instead of slandering their mindset and indirectly calling their supporters stupid.

[Jgoftl]

My problem with the new patch mod is it doesn't work with Fertility Adventures.

[CHIMiny Cricket]

1 hour ago, Jgoftl said:

My problem with the new patch mod is it doesn't work with Fertility Adventures.

I just tested the version released today and it worked fine. What's going wrong on your end?

[DJShamrock]

On 3/17/2021 at 3:30 PM, NymphoElf said:

They don't become followers like other NPCs. They're still flagged as "child" actors. If you have adoption enabled, they'll spawn at your home as long as you still have an available adoption slot (2 by default, 6 with Hearthfire Multiple Adoptions mod).

 

If your adoption slots are full, or if you have adoption disabled, AND you have "child training" enabled, they will disappear and become a summon-able Adult follower after a certain amount of time (you use the MCM to summon them).

 

If you have "child training" turned off, and you either have adoption turned off OR have no more adoption slots left, they will simply disappear and not spawn at all.

Adopted children never become adults, and trained children are never seen unless summoned. 

Don't they still spawn in the middle of Whiterun if you have spawn enabled and child training and adoptions disabled? This is how its been in 3.x afaik

[Jgoftl]

2 hours ago, CHIMiny Cricket said:

I just tested the version released today and it worked fine. What's going wrong on your end?

Even though my PC is "pregnant" the pregnancy test from Danica always reads negative with the new patch installed.

[vjnmrf]

22 hours ago, lynak said:

I'm pretty sure that would just result in an philosophical discussion leading nowhere.  The problem isn't with the patch in its current state (which is perfectly fine as is), but the developers general mentality or "worldview". He made this mod far more performant, therefore proving he's a talented coder. But then in his own words, he used the gained ressources to start implementing complex stuff to make it "more realistic", such as uncertainities about period and fertility days. Because of how FM is designed, the same of course applies to NPCs as well, so what once was a simple timestamp-comparison turns into a more complex calculation for every tracked actor - just to have a 1-day uncertainity in the position of cycles. And that's not even considering that some players might not consider uncertainity an improvement. Yet this new feature isn't optional, because in the author's mind, the possibility that "more realistic" doesn't always equal "better for the game" doesn't even exist. And even if an option existed to turn this off, i'm not sure that would remove the performance-penalty. Beth's script engine has a history of being extremely stupid - back in the oblivion days it couldn't even optimize IF-THEN-ELSE blocks, so it would always parse all code, no matter what condition was actually true - something which no other VM on the planet does.

 

For now its just a handful new features and changes, so the above isn't really a problem. Instead the problem is the developer's mindset: He vastly optimized a mod, and then his first thought of how to use the gained performance is, stuff like cycle-uncertainities. My point was that doesn't bode well for the future.

Alas, this applies not only to this mod, but to 90% of all available here. Instead of achieving the clearest and fastest possible mod's work, they begin to shove a lot of * subtle * settings, any additional content, or this kind of * realism *. Well, in the end, most of these mods are abandoned unfinished, or turn into an endless build-up with constantly added bugs. 

I only tried this mod because Pregnancy Hentai (simple and reliable enough) doesn't work with FG. Alas, I did not manage to achieve normal operation of the mod. I was hoping for a new patch, but perhaps I will refrain.

[axz2]

On 3/18/2021 at 1:59 AM, NymphoElf said:

Disappear. The baby item will despawn, effectively resulting in having "nothing" selected as the birth type.

 

  I don't like that particular part of the mod that much then, at least as something that's not optional.

[CHIMiny Cricket]

10 hours ago, Jgoftl said:

Even though my PC is "pregnant" the pregnancy test from Danica always reads negative with the new patch installed.

It's working for me. Have you tried waiting a day?

[NymphoElf]

54 minutes ago, axz2 said:

 

  I don't like that particular part of the mod that much then, at least as something that's not optional.

It is optional though, to an extent. If you don't want to have summon-able followers after reaching your adoption limit, then what's the point of spawning in a new child npc? Wouldn't that cause unnecessary strain on the game? Personally, I wouldn't want that.

 

13 hours ago, DJShamrock said:

Don't they still spawn in the middle of Whiterun if you have spawn enabled and child training and adoptions disabled? This is how its been in 3.x afaik

I honestly don't know. I've never tested it, but I don't remember seeing it in the update. Maybe I missed it or forgot?

I'll keep an eye out for that.

[DJShamrock]

1 hour ago, NymphoElf said:

It is optional though, to an extent. If you don't want to have summon-able followers after reaching your adoption limit, then what's the point of spawning in a new child npc? Wouldn't that cause unnecessary strain on the game? Personally, I wouldn't want that.

 

I honestly don't know. I've never tested it, but I don't remember seeing it in the update. Maybe I missed it or forgot?

I'll keep an eye out for that.

I went back and forth with Narue in this thread about it after 3.x was released I don't know how many pages back but likely not too many

[axz2]

2 hours ago, NymphoElf said:

It is optional though, to an extent. If you don't want to have summon-able followers after reaching your adoption limit, then what's the point of spawning in a new child npc? Wouldn't that cause unnecessary strain on the game? Personally, I wouldn't want that.

 

If your character gets pregnant or gets someone else pregnant then later you have a "baby item".  If the settings and the game situation (such as reaching the adoption limit) don't let your baby turn in to a child in the game then why not just leave it as a baby rather than making the baby disappear?

[NymphoElf]

43 minutes ago, axz2 said:

 

If your character gets pregnant or gets someone else pregnant then later you have a "baby item".  If the settings and the game situation (such as reaching the adoption limit) don't let your baby turn in to a child in the game then why not just leave it as a baby rather than making the baby disappear?

That's a question with many potential answers based on who you ask, ranging from IRL practicality reasons to "immersion" reasons:

1. [IRL Practicality]
   • Depending on how fast you set your pregnancy duration, you could get bogged down with a lot of "baby items"
   • Some people would get upset about the moral insinuation of leaving said "excess baby items" in a chest or the like, and would claim the mod is enabling "child abuse" which is a widely frowned upon and heavily demonized topic. Narue is saving themself a massive headache by making that an impossibility in this mod.
2. [Immersion]
   • Babies don't stay babies forever (ignoring skyrim's "eternally children" npcs)
3. [Practicality & Immersion]
   • You could always turn on training to summon your "adult" offspring later
4. [Practicality]
   • You could switch to the "Soul Gem" birth type, giving you at least some kind of "benefit" to pregnancy

and so on.

 

I'm not saying the way FM handles the situation is perfect, but it's better than causing weird bugs and glitches for not having a way to handle it otherwise. At the end of the day, it's mostly a limitation of the game itself.

[NymphoElf]

1 hour ago, DJShamrock said:

I went back and forth with Narue in this thread about it after 3.x was released I don't know how many pages back but likely not too many

I seem to have found the portion you mentioned. Personally I've never ended up at the point where children weren't automatically spawned at my house. I tend to have longer pregnancy cycles in my playthroughs, and I have HFMA so I can have 6 kids living at my home. So if they do spawn in whiteurn, I've never had the chance to notice it.

 

Again, I'll make sure to keep that in mind going forward.

[DJShamrock]

2 hours ago, NymphoElf said:

I seem to have found the portion you mentioned. Personally I've never ended up at the point where children weren't automatically spawned at my house. I tend to have longer pregnancy cycles in my playthroughs, and I have HFMA so I can have 6 kids living at my home. So if they do spawn in whiteurn, I've never had the chance to notice it.

 

Again, I'll make sure to keep that in mind going forward.

I have to do it that way just due to all the other finicky shit in the hearthfire code on my runs a lot of times baby items wont turn into adopts on their own. Not that i understand why, but having them drop straight into whiterun is a debugging blessing. Then i just name and adopt them from there.

[axz2]

2 hours ago, NymphoElf said:

That's a question with many potential answers based on who you ask, ranging from IRL practicality reasons to "immersion" reasons:

 

Babies don't stay babies forever but they stay babies long enough to cover a lot of people's full play-through, and making them disappear seems more abusive to me than leaving them at home.

 

Re "You could always turn on training to summon your "adult" offspring later" - That might be your strongest point.  Personally I'd want to set it up so that it takes a long time for a kid to become an adult (less than it would take in real life but years of in game time), or even not do it at all (considering your can't adopt them and then make them adult later).   What I would probably be likely to do is as I approach the adoption limit (if I do) make pregnancy and the amount of time spent as babies, both become longer.   I'd probably start off with them longer than most people would anyway.   No 10 day or two week pregnancies followed by becoming a walking talking child a week after that.

[amenshawn]

If I could import any feature from Beeing Female to Fertility Mode, it would be the chance for multiples.  I know the increased belly scaling for the number of unborn would be tricky to get working, but the end result would be awesome.  Aside from that one 'wish list' item I'm really enjoying this mod.  Keep up the outstanding work!

[NymphoElf]

8 hours ago, axz2 said:

Babies don't stay babies forever but they stay babies long enough to cover a lot of people's full play-through, and making them disappear seems more abusive to me than leaving them at home.

You're blending IRL logic with fantasy logic, and that's a dangerous combination.

 

When the baby item disappears, you can imagine any number of events explaining why you no longer have the child in your possession. If you still have the baby item in your possession, that's harder to argue what exactly you're doing with it if you're not actively caring for it (granted, I doubt many people are watching lewd Skyrim playthroughs but my point remains).

 

I'm not saying everyone would make the "abuse" argument I mentioned, but it's a possibility.

 

8 hours ago, axz2 said:

Personally I'd want to set it up so that it takes a long time for a kid to become an adult (less than it would take in real life but years of in game time), or even not do it at all (considering your can't adopt them and then make them adult later).   What I would probably be likely to do is as I approach the adoption limit (if I do) make pregnancy and the amount of time spent as babies, both become longer.   I'd probably start off with them longer than most people would anyway.   No 10 day or two week pregnancies followed by becoming a walking talking child a week after that.

And that's fine, but not everyone wants that. Not everyone uses mods that make in-game time pass rapidly, and/or don't play for vast amounts of time.

This mod allows for nearly as much or as little realism as you want, but in order to get the best of both worlds compromises must be made. The spawning system happens to be one of them.

 

We could talk about this forever, but it won't change what the mod is right now and has no guarantee of influencing its future.