Devious Devices Framework Development/Beta

[Richard1234]

Ok, cool. The gloves also don't have sliders in the more shiny catsuits mod, so I'm quite sure something can be done about it. Though I also have no clue about how to fix this

 

Edit: tested all the other CBBE catsuit items. They all look good to me. Found one more issue though: The socks don't obey gravity. See screenshot. I'm quite sure this is not intended, though it does make for a very colourful abandoned jail cell.

[asdfasdf883]

Armbinders from other non beta mods (eg Deviously Cursed Loot, Devious Devices Equip, and Captured Dreams) break animation when after sprinting, is that a side effect of beta and intended?

[El_Duderino]

Please allow me to "cross-quote" somebody else's post into this thread. I have seen this issue occur with the release version of DD3, but also when using the DD4 betas:

 

I don't know why the hobble dress doesn'y always have effect.It seems that my chracter moves in low speed about 10 seconds and in normal speed about 5 seconds as a period.

 

By the way,the restrictive boots work well,as it always have effect that makes my chracter moves slowly.

 

I've also seen that happen with the hobble dresses/straitjackets occasionally but always forgot to report it here. So what happens is this:

• Items gets equipped just fine, character starts walking/hopping at the correct speedmult as defined in the MCM.
• After some seemingly random time, and only *sometimes*, Skyrim can forget the hobble spell. At this point, the character (player and NPCs) starts walking at normal speed for a short moment. Still using the hobble anims, but forgetting the speedmult modifier from the hobble dress. All other speedmult modifiers (including boots) still apply at this point, as far as I can remember.
• When clicking the character in the console at this point, all hobble dress related spells will have vanished from the list of active spells/effects.
• After a short while, the character starts walking at the correct "hobble speed" again and the active spells from the dress are also back in the console info page.
• Once triggered, this process now repeats over and over again in short (several seconds or few minutes long) intervals for as long as the dress is worn in this game session.

This occurs seemingly randomly and often not at all during a game session, I have yet to find a rule to the madness. Some vague thoughts what might induce this:

- passing load screens into heavily populated areas

- high script load in general (battles, SL scenes, etc.)

 

I didn't have logging enabled every time I saw this in the past. I'll try to catch this issue again with logging enabled.

 

Is anybody else seeing this and maybe can add some more details or observations?

[Princessity]

Please allow me to "cross-quote" somebody else's post into this thread. I have seen this issue occur with the release version of DD3, but also when using the DD4 betas:

 

I don't know why the hobble dress doesn'y always have effect.It seems that my chracter moves in low speed about 10 seconds and in normal speed about 5 seconds as a period.

 

By the way,the restrictive boots work well,as it always have effect that makes my chracter moves slowly.

 

I've also seen that happen with the hobble dresses/straitjackets occasionally but always forgot to report it here. So what happens is this:

• Items gets equipped just fine, character starts walking/hopping at the correct speedmult as defined in the MCM.
• After some seemingly random time, and only *sometimes*, Skyrim can forget the hobble spell. At this point, the character (player and NPCs) starts walking at normal speed for a short moment. Still using the hobble anims, but forgetting the speedmult modifier from the hobble dress. All other speedmult modifiers (including boots) still apply at this point, as far as I can remember.
• When clicking the character in the console at this point, all hobble dress related spells will have vanished from the list of active spells/effects.
• After a short while, the character starts walking at the correct "hobble speed" again and the active spells from the dress are also back in the console info page.
• Once triggered, this process now repeats over and over again in short (several seconds or few minutes long) intervals for as long as the dress is worn in this game session.

This occurs seemingly randomly and often not at all during a game session, I have yet to find a rule to the madness. Some vague thoughts what might induce this:

- passing load screens into heavily populated areas

- high script load in general (battles, SL scenes, etc.)

 

I didn't have logging enabled every time I saw this in the past. I'll try to catch this issue again with logging enabled.

 

Is anybody else seeing this and maybe can add some more details or observations?

 

You are using some other mod that uses papyrus to dynamically adjust speed. It will fight with hobble dresses for control.

 

If you can identify the conflicting mod and find out how its speed adjustment feature can be disabled we can figure out some kind of compatibility solution.

 

For now Requiem is the only supported compatibility.

[El_Duderino]

 

I don't know why the hobble dress doesn'y always have effect.It seems that my chracter moves in low speed about 10 seconds and in normal speed about 5 seconds as a period.

 

By the way,the restrictive boots work well,as it always have effect that makes my chracter moves slowly.

 

...

 

You are using some other mod that uses papyrus to dynamically adjust speed. It will fight with hobble dresses for control.

 

If you can identify the conflicting mod and find out how its speed adjustment feature can be disabled we can figure out some kind of compatibility solution.

 

For now Requiem is the only supported compatibility.

 

 

A-ha! Thank you very much for the explanation, that makes a lot of sense. So my game is not broken, it's just a compatibility thing. That's good news!

 

Do any mods that add a temporary debuff to speedmult count as possible trouble makers, or only mods that check and update the speedmult frequently? With temporary debuff I mean mods like iNeed that add a speedmult penalty while the character is very tired, but it seems to be an on/off thing via spell (player is tired = speedmult penalty applied, player rests = spell removed). Do I interpret this correctly that this would not count as dynamically adjusted speed? Or is that already a possible conflict right there?

 

I'll keep a close look on my actor values next time I play the game. Perkus Maximus is my main potential suspect right now.

 

Ideally then we'll need to determine which mod(s) conflict, what spell they use for it and which of their scripts is attached, correct? That sounds like some nice detective work, let me give it a try.

[dnoah]

 

 

Please allow me to "cross-quote" somebody else's post into this thread. I have seen this issue occur with the release version of DD3, but also when using the DD4 betas:

 

I don't know why the hobble dress doesn'y always have effect.It seems that my chracter moves in low speed about 10 seconds and in normal speed about 5 seconds as a period.

 

By the way,the restrictive boots work well,as it always have effect that makes my chracter moves slowly.

 

I've also seen that happen with the hobble dresses/straitjackets occasionally but always forgot to report it here. So what happens is this:

• Items gets equipped just fine, character starts walking/hopping at the correct speedmult as defined in the MCM.
• After some seemingly random time, and only *sometimes*, Skyrim can forget the hobble spell. At this point, the character (player and NPCs) starts walking at normal speed for a short moment. Still using the hobble anims, but forgetting the speedmult modifier from the hobble dress. All other speedmult modifiers (including boots) still apply at this point, as far as I can remember.
• When clicking the character in the console at this point, all hobble dress related spells will have vanished from the list of active spells/effects.
• After a short while, the character starts walking at the correct "hobble speed" again and the active spells from the dress are also back in the console info page.
• Once triggered, this process now repeats over and over again in short (several seconds or few minutes long) intervals for as long as the dress is worn in this game session.

This occurs seemingly randomly and often not at all during a game session, I have yet to find a rule to the madness. Some vague thoughts what might induce this:

- passing load screens into heavily populated areas

- high script load in general (battles, SL scenes, etc.)

 

I didn't have logging enabled every time I saw this in the past. I'll try to catch this issue again with logging enabled.

 

Is anybody else seeing this and maybe can add some more details or observations?

 

 

You are using some other mod that uses papyrus to dynamically adjust speed. It will fight with hobble dresses for control.

 

If you can identify the conflicting mod and find out how its speed adjustment feature can be disabled we can figure out some kind of compatibility solution.

 

For now Requiem is the only supported compatibility.

 

 

Frostfall can clash with DD for SpeedMult. It's closed source though, making a patch would be problematic.

[thefakebobdole]

Devious Training is one that seems to dynamically alter speed. Realistic Needs is another. I really want to say even with barebones, I couldn't get the hobble dress stay sped up. Another thing that seems to have been around since release is White Blindfold (or was it ebonite?) not unequipping properly.

 

Thanks

[a626943491]

 

 

I don't know why the hobble dress doesn'y always have effect.It seems that my chracter moves in low speed about 10 seconds and in normal speed about 5 seconds as a period.

 

By the way,the restrictive boots work well,as it always have effect that makes my chracter moves slowly.

 

...

 

You are using some other mod that uses papyrus to dynamically adjust speed. It will fight with hobble dresses for control.

 

If you can identify the conflicting mod and find out how its speed adjustment feature can be disabled we can figure out some kind of compatibility solution.

 

For now Requiem is the only supported compatibility.

 

 

A-ha! Thank you very much for the explanation, that makes a lot of sense. So my game is not broken, it's just a compatibility thing. That's good news!

 

Do any mods that add a temporary debuff to speedmult count as possible trouble makers, or only mods that check and update the speedmult frequently? With temporary debuff I mean mods like iNeed that add a speedmult penalty while the character is very tired, but it seems to be an on/off thing via spell (player is tired = speedmult penalty applied, player rests = spell removed). Do I interpret this correctly that this would not count as dynamically adjusted speed? Or is that already a possible conflict right there?

 

I'll keep a close look on my actor values next time I play the game. Perkus Maximus is my main potential suspect right now.

 

Ideally then we'll need to determine which mod(s) conflict, what spell they use for it and which of their scripts is attached, correct? That sounds like some nice detective work, let me give it a try.

 

 

Realistc Needs is also installed.Its function just likes iNeeds.May it be the source of the conflict?

[a626943491]

Though,it is weird that restrictive boots work well with Realistic Needs and other mods.

 

As for dynamical adjustment,Skyrim Experience Mod and PlayerSuccubusQuest are also suspected of conflction.These two mods both give player some buffs about speed.

[mangalo]

*Trying to help*

 

Yps Immersive Fashion also alters speed

[naaitsab]

Small bug on the steel mittens. While wearing them and not having the correct key (or any keys at all in my case) the option 'unlock' is there. It shows the message something in the lines of, you try to use the key but it slips out of your hands.

But without a key it's a bit difficult to use a key

[El_Duderino]

The first testing results are in, I'm confident to say that iNeed is certainly clashing with the hobble skirt.

 

My testing setup contained only DD & its requirements, iNeed, and Skyrim Unbound to get myself into the new game quickly.

 

iNeed applies speedmult penalties at three stages, when the player's fatigue level rises. There are three magic effects for that in the .esp, each applying a Peak Value Modifier penalty to speedmult. When the next level of fatigue is reached during gameplay, the hobble dress speedmult is forgot for a short while (changes to [base speedmult - iNeed's debuff value]) and then after some seconds DD's own hobble dress speedmult kicks in again and seems to remain avctive and unchanged until the next "fatigue level" is reached in iNeed.

 

However, as iNeed's fatigue levels represent essentially the char's tiredness, they change only about two to three times every day during normal gameplay, so those occasional moments of fighting over the speedmult value can easily be ignored in my opinion.

 

Oh, also, no log because nothing was in it.

 

Moving on to the next mod...

[El_Duderino]

Next mod tested: Frostfall (latest version)

 

The short version: Frostfall clashes too, but it has an MCM switch which might be used as a compatibility setting for DD.

 

The long version: With default settings, this one applied speedmult penalties too, in three situations: player's exposure reaches "freezing", again when it hits "freezing to death", and a third when a "feet frostbite" debuff gets applied. Since Frostfalls exposure can go up and down much quicker depending on where you are in the game world, the speedmult clash can happen a lot more frequently than with iNeed. Also, it seems that once the player has had all three of Frostfall's debuffs applied and then "cured" again by warming up, the speedmult won't return to the hobble dress's original default until the item gets unequipped and re-equipped.

 

The good news is that Frostfall's MCM comes with an option to disable the slowdown effects when freezing. This also seems to remove the speedmult penalty from the frostbitten feet debuff. The hobbledress's speedmult remained unchanged throughout all stages of Frostfall's exposure with this MCM switch set to off, so I don't think that Frostfall needs any code-side patches either. Just tell Frostfall users like me to disable that setting in the MCM and all should be fine.

[rjn]

If I recall correctly, both Soul Gem Oven and Wear and Tear mods also adjust PC speed at various points.

 

On another topic: Does anyone else experience a player "no fighting" condition with drawn weapons?  It mostly happens when a DD event occurs while the weapon is drawn.  When the DD event completes the character's arms go down with weapon in hand and you can't fight.  Re-sheathing and drawing the weapon clears the condition.

[Nazzzgul666]

Yes, wear & tear (from Apropos) has speed multi, RND has, FHU has, Beeing female has, MME has, i think new versions of egg factory,... there are quite a lot mods which modify speed, pretty sure i still forgot some. 

In Apropos, MME and RND i think i can only disable debuffs in a whole, FHU and egg factory as well as SGO should have options to turn of speed penatles, not sure about BF.

Without own testings, i guess the problem is that the hobble dresses have custom animations? The speed value only has worked with other mods and boots which changed the speed afaik, or did you rework that system in whole?

Does the animation break/look stupid with a different-than-supposed speed? I think making the speed change optional would be easier than to find a workaround for each mod.

[Richard1234]

 

On another topic: Does anyone else experience a player "no fighting" condition with drawn weapons?  It mostly happens when a DD event occurs while the weapon is drawn.  When the DD event completes the character's arms go down with weapon in hand and you can't fight.  Re-sheathing and drawing the weapon clears the condition.

 

Yes, I see this behaviour every now and then. Has been in DD for a long time. Personally I don't really care about it, because it's so easy to clear the condition.

[Slorm]

 

 

On another topic: Does anyone else experience a player "no fighting" condition with drawn weapons?  It mostly happens when a DD event occurs while the weapon is drawn.  When the DD event completes the character's arms go down with weapon in hand and you can't fight.  Re-sheathing and drawing the weapon clears the condition.

 

Yes, I see this behaviour every now and then. Has been in DD for a long time. Personally I don't really care about it, because it's so easy to clear the condition.

 

 

I think it's caused by overlapping animations (when one runs into another and clashes). I'm guessing that's the cause from empirical observation, It's not consistent but has been around for a long time and I'm not sure it's directly connected with DD

 

[valcon767]

 

 

 

On another topic: Does anyone else experience a player "no fighting" condition with drawn weapons?  It mostly happens when a DD event occurs while the weapon is drawn.  When the DD event completes the character's arms go down with weapon in hand and you can't fight.  Re-sheathing and drawing the weapon clears the condition.

 

Yes, I see this behaviour every now and then. Has been in DD for a long time. Personally I don't really care about it, because it's so easy to clear the condition.

 

 

I think it's caused by overlapping animations (when one runs into another and clashes). I'm guessing that's the cause from empirical observation, It's not consistent but has been around for a long time and I'm not sure it's directly connected with DD

 

 

 

I have also run into this and can at least make one confirmation - it is not caused by DD.

DD may contribute to it but I have had it happen in mod loads without DD and with DD.  it does seem to happen to me slightly more often with

DD in the load order but happens so rarely I honestly miss seeing it happen unless I am watching for issues specifically at the time it happens.

When paying attention for issues I see it happen about once every 20-30 hours of gameplay, I just tend to notice it more often with DD loaded

due to testing mods (that have DD as a requirement) than I do without DD loaded.

 

BTW

I wish to thank the DD team for fixing the CBBE Catsuit Ballet Boots issue (yes it works correctly for me now and does show in game).

[qawsedrftg765]

Better Vampires has speed alteration as well. 

[Richard1234]

I found an issue in the vaginal piercing (soulgem):

1. There's 2 of them with the same name. I think 1 from DD assets and 1 from DD expansion?

2. The first one doesn't open a dialogue window when you click it.

-It just equips in one go.

-Clicking it again seems to unlock it.

-However after trying to equip another vaginal piercing the vaginal piercing (soulgem) (from I think DD assets) is equipped again.

3. The second one (from DD expansion?) also acts strangely.

- When you click it a dialogue window does open, but it has the option 'Put it on' instead of 'Put it in', like the shock and common soulgem piercing have.

- When you try to unlock it it has the option 'Unlock' instead of 'Remove with tool', like the shock and common soulgem piercing have.

- When you click on 'Unlock' it says you can't unlock it because of the harness you're wearing.

 

The other 2 vaginal piercings (common soulgem and shock) behave as expected.

 

This is on a new game in which only the piercings were tested, nothing with corsets, harnesses or any other restraints.

[Majin Buu]

I found an issue in the vaginal piercing (soulgem):

1. There's 2 of them with the same name. I think 1 from DD assets and 1 from DD expansion?

2. The first one doesn't open a dialogue window when you click it.

-It just equips in one go.

-Clicking it again seems to unlock it.

-However after trying to equip another vaginal piercing the vaginal piercing (soulgem) (from I think DD assets) is equipped again.

3. The second one (from DD expansion?) also acts strangely.

- When you click it a dialogue window does open, but it has the option 'Put it on' instead of 'Put it in', like the shock and common soulgem piercing have.

- When you try to unlock it it has the option 'Unlock' instead of 'Remove with tool', like the shock and common soulgem piercing have.

- When you click on 'Unlock' it says you can't unlock it because of the harness you're wearing.

 

The other 2 vaginal piercings (common soulgem and shock) behave as expected.

 

This is on a new game in which only the piercings were tested, nothing with corsets, harnesses or any other restraints.

 

Everything from assets is just normal items. They are just models for others items to copy from. They aren't supposed to have any scripts or magic effects attached to them.

[El_Duderino]

Ok, cool. The gloves also don't have sliders in the more shiny catsuits mod, so I'm quite sure something can be done about it. Though I also have no clue about how to fix this

 

Edit: tested all the other CBBE catsuit items. They all look good to me. Found one more issue though: The socks don't obey gravity. See screenshot. I'm quite sure this is not intended, though it does make for a very colourful abandoned jail cell.

 

Thanks for the report about the broken ground models, I've just fixed that. The short gloves were also affected by this, now all catsuit items drop to the ground properly:

[Strateg]

About speed control, may be we should use plugin something like PlayerValueControler from Wear and Tear http://www.loverslab.com/files/file/1852-sexlab-wear-and-tear-208-24may2016/ ? It's accumulate all speed changes, and creating one modifier with sum of all effects...

[dnoah]

About speed control, may be we should use plugin something like PlayerValueControler from Wear and Tear http://www.loverslab.com/files/file/1852-sexlab-wear-and-tear-208-24may2016/ ? It's accumulate all speed changes, and creating one modifier with sum of all effects...

Relying on another mod could only work, if every other mod out there that dynamically alters speed was relying on that same mod. (Which is not going to happen.) Otherwise it would accomplish nothing. What happens is that every few seconds a mod calculates its speed modifier and applies it to a character. Moreover, a sum of speed modifiers is not going to cut it in case of a hobble, since a) a modifier should be substantial, and b ) it should have a lower bound for the game to remain reasonably playable.

I consider this an engine flaw rather than mod flaw, since Beth devs, in all their wisdom, decided that:

1. Multipliers should be additive rather than multiplicative, like (AB)C = A(B+C).

2. No lower bound on speed modifier, because who wants to deprive players of this wonderful feature of having their speed reduced to .0001 of normal.

[Bane Master]

Hi, 

 

Testing some code with tV4.0 GetDeviceByKeyword & GetDeviceByTags don't return any inventory item for zad_DeviousArmbinder or zad_DeviousArmYoke.

 

Also not seeing zad_DeviousArmbinderElbow & zad_DeviousCuffsFront via these methods.