Devious Devices Framework Development/Beta

[Kharos]

On 9/29/2020 at 6:36 AM, Kimy said:

Devious Devices 5.0 Beta 1

Since I have some time today, I decided to give this a quick test run. I have not yet actually started the game, but I noticed with TES5Edit that there are quite a few conflicts between the esp's of Devious Devices for Him and Beast Race Refits.

1. Am I assuming correctly that Beast Race Refits should be later in my load order, such that it can override Devious Devices for Him?
2. Conflicts between multiple esp's from the same mod are not a good thing, and I expect that quite a few users will not sort these correctly, so you should try to get rid of these conflicts.

 

[Edit]

Some more comments after some quick testing:

 

1. Am I the only one who would like to combine the new elbow shackles with wrist shackles (steel manacles or iron handcuffs) for the true "bondage overkill" feeling? (also there is no such thing as "overkill" ?)
2. For me, equipping random NPCs with devices (yeah I was using openactorcontainer 1 to do some quick testing) will now often remove all of their clothes or armor (i.e. they will be naked, and their clothes and armor will disappear; the old equipment will not even be in their inventory). I think this is caused by some code in zadEquipScript.pcs:

   Event OnEquipped(Actor akActor)
       [...]
   	if akActor != libs.PlayerRef && (akActor.WornHasKeyword(libs.zad_DeviousSuit) || akActor.WornHasKeyword(libs.zad_DeviousHeavyBondage))
   		akActor.SetOutfit(libs.zadEmptyOutfit, false)
   	endIf
      

   I think that the previous behavior (not changing their outfit) was better. While this (changing outfits) might work correctly with followers, it might cause unexpected effects if the user has mods that put restraints on generic NPCs.

 

[Skullered]

1 hour ago, Kharos said:

Since I have some time today, I decided to give this a quick testrun. I have not yet actually started the game, but I noticed with TES5Edit that there are quite a few conflicts between the esp's of Devious Devices for Him and Beast Race Refits.

1. I am assuming correctly that Beast Race Refits should be later in my load order, such that it can override Devious Devices for Him?
2. Conflicts between multiple esp's from the same mod are not a good thing, and I expect that quite a few users will not sort these correctly, so you should try to get rid of these conflicts.

 

Correct, BRRF needs to be loaded after For Him.

The conflicts are caused by the mods both modifying the same items, and BRRF re-creating some of For Him's records so they remain compatible without making For Him a requirement.

 

I should probably have made an xEdit ModGroup so it wouldn't show these records as having conflicts.

[worik]

9 hours ago, worik said:

Is this post from the 29th pointing to the most current package ?

I have to add myself to the row of failed downloads.

Not sure if it was just a hickup today or if it's systematic that my two attempts both failed at about 85-90%. Tried on 2 different computers

Large downloads are usually not a problem here. I just downloaded from another site an even larger piece of zip.

Though I have never ever attempted to download a package of 2GB from MEGA. ?

[naaitsab]

Would there be any intrest to merge the inflatable gag Collgyon made with the regular panel gag? I've split the gag from the mesh so it can be used as a separate plug if desired as the nif is separate. Or just instead of the regular 'plug' in the gag.

 

 

[Skullered]

1 hour ago, donttouchmethere said:

Did I see it right? There is no BRRF patch for DDe included atm, right?

You should still be able to use the existing patches from the original download page, just make sure DD 5.0 overwrites the main plugin and BSA. I didn't update any of the patches when making the version I gave to Kimy.

 

[Kimy]

1 hour ago, naaitsab said:

Would there be any intrest to merge the inflatable gag Collgyon made with the regular panel gag? I've split the gag from the mesh so it can be used as a separate plug if desired as the nif is separate. Or just instead of the regular 'plug' in the gag.

 

 

If it's ok with Collygon, yes. I'd merge it.

[naaitsab]

16 minutes ago, Kimy said:

If it's ok with Collygon, yes. I'd merge it.

@Collygon any objections to modifying the meshes?

[Hanshurtig11]

12 hours ago, naaitsab said:

@Collygon any objections to modifying the meshes?

And may the pump get enlarged a little bit. It looks like the size of a grape

[Collygon]

11 hours ago, Hanshurtig11 said:

And may the pump get enlarged a little bit. It looks like the size of a grape

 

On 10/2/2020 at 9:54 AM, naaitsab said:

@Collygon any objections to modifying the meshes?

 

No objections here. DD is a community made mod at this point, so if the community can improve it, I don't wanna stand in the way. :)

[ahboojiga123]

dont know if someone suggested this yet, probably did, but with a quick search i cant find it so ill just post again

 

can next DD version(or the one after) import the dollsuit from this mod?

i would really love to see DD finally gettting a 2nd "reverse prayer" bondage item after the dwarven cuirass mech suit

 

as for permission.........i guess it's just a matter of how responsive he will be?

Quote

Misc: Other modders are welcome to copy and use my meshes and textures for their purposes. After all, this project was started as a modder's resource file. Just ask--don't profit off it, etc etc. If I have used someone else's creations and they would like me not to or would like attribution, let me know.

 

[thedarkone1234]

Please someone see if it is possible to add this as a possible SJ:

https://eiheispot1.blog.fc2.com/blog-entry-1046.html

 

 

It looks comfy XD

[Kimy]

Technically, I don't think it should be a problem. There seem to be UUNP and CBBE versions available, and since the SJ doesn't show the arms anyway, their exact position doesn't matter so much. The existing animations should work anyway.

 

Permissions-wisely, I have NO clue if the author allows merging their assets with other mods, or if the person posting it is even the original author. My Mandarin is a bit rusty...

[poblivion]

26 minutes ago, Kimy said:

Technically, I don't think it should be a problem. There seem to be UUNP and CBBE versions available, and since the SJ doesn't show the arms anyway, their exact position doesn't matter so much. The existing animations should work anyway.

 

Permissions-wisely, I have NO clue if the author allows merging their assets with other mods, or if the person posting it is even the original author. My Mandarin is a bit rusty...

I think the author understands English well. It may have been possible to ask him for permission on his Patreon site ?

 

https://www.patreon.com/ninirim

 

[DeWired]

Hello, @Kimy

First of all, while we are still at beta - maybe there is a possibility of adding a library function? Namely, blockGeneric device swap within a single keyword - like, different versions of hobble dresses and such - without sending ModEvents, and in one fuction call? This would be usable for quite a few mods - Laura's Bondage Shop does this (through Remove/Equip pair), and even in DCL there is Damsel in Distress, which can benefit from this. If beta is too late - maybe this can be added for the next version ?

Second - am I correct in my understanding that with DD5 any mods not updated to comply with Beast Race Refits would have invisible gear (instead of misaligned)?

[thedarkone1234]

Bug report: Found a bound girl from DCL and released her. Releasing of her gag failed and it stayed on her.

 

Pretty sure relevant papyrus is at 10:11:35 but I will put the entire log just in case. 

 

(She also later raped me and we ate each other's asses while being gagged, but it was a SLAL animation so maybe it simply wasn't tagged right...)

 

Clarification on the rape part: I am using only DD's filters right now.

Papyrus.0.log

[DeWired]

1 hour ago, thedarkone1234 said:

Bug report: Found a bound girl from DCL and released her. Releasing of her gag failed and it stayed on her.

 

Pretty sure relevant papyrus is at 10:11:35 but I will put the entire log just in case. 

 

(She also later raped me and we ate each other's asses while being gagged, but it was a SLAL animation so maybe it simply wasn't tagged right...)

 

Clarification on the rape part: I am using only DD's filters right now.

Papyrus.0.log 313.46 kB · 0 downloads

Actually, this looks like bug in DCL. Namely, in dcur_boundgirls_release.psc, in fragment

		If c
			libs.EquipDevice(libs.PlayerRef, d, libs.GetRenderedDevice(d), libs.zad_DeviousBelt, skipmutex = true)
			Utility.Wait(1)		
		EndIf

condition probably should look like "If d". It could have aborted release, even if all unlocks were already done. Maybe it stopped outfit change? Anyway, bug in DD5 - inconclusive, bug in DCL - highly likely.

[Mr.Zed]

Is there any ETA on the update for normal people who can't really test stuff because they are scared of things breaking?

[thedarkone1234]

57 minutes ago, Mr.Zed said:

Is there any ETA on the update for normal people who can't really test stuff because they are scared of things breaking?

For a direct answer you would need one of the modders, but just so you know: No matter how thorought beta testing is, the first release version will have bugs. No game is immune to that.

 

But nothing old should surprisingly break, because the patch demands starting a new game anyway. It basically means: "We consider tany game that was started with a previous version is 'broken' with this version". It doesn't matter when the official release is. The only question is when you are ready to make peace with making a new save XD

[Kimy]

11 hours ago, Mr.Zed said:

Is there any ETA on the update for normal people who can't really test stuff because they are scared of things breaking?

I don't work like a game studio, which tend to release games on a fixed date, no matter how many bugs they still have, provided that the game runs at all. DD5 will get released when ALL known major bugs have been squashed. Which in turn depends on what testers report to me.

Right now, the results seem very promising. Given the scope of the changes in DD5, I expected worse, honestly. The only reported problem I classify as major is the straitjacket issue, to which a suggested fix exists. I am actually working on this issue as we speak.

 

Obviously, I have no control over how many people are testing DD5 with what other DD mods in their load order. There is still room for unpleasant surprises. And as thedarkone pointed out above, even the most diligent beta testing cannot guarantee that the final product will not horribly clash with the one DD content mod nobody tested DD5 with.

 

If, and that's IF people report no more showstoppers, I expect a full release in October, still.

[Kimy]

On 10/4/2020 at 10:22 AM, DeWired said:

Hello, @Kimy

First of all, while we are still at beta - maybe there is a possibility of adding a library function? Namely, blockGeneric device swap within a single keyword - like, different versions of hobble dresses and such - without sending ModEvents, and in one fuction call? This would be usable for quite a few mods - Laura's Bondage Shop does this (through Remove/Equip pair), and even in DCL there is Damsel in Distress, which can benefit from this. If beta is too late - maybe this can be added for the next version ?

Second - am I correct in my understanding that with DD5 any mods not updated to comply with Beast Race Refits would have invisible gear (instead of misaligned)?

Coding this would be messier than you probably think, because these events get fired from within OnEquipped() and OnUnequipped(), respectively, and skipping events would also leave the StorageUtil settings unchanged, which would be bad in some situations.

 

With the new code being as fast as it is, is there even a true need for skipping events anymore? I have to admit that I removed the skipEvents parameter intentionally, because it can cause really really messed up device states if used incorrectly.

[DonQuiWho]

@Kimy

 

Just a quick query, please. 

 

One of the reasons I have been using Kharos' mod 'Better NPC Support for Devious Devices 0.1 RC 3' that has been mentioned upthread, , despite it adding a little lag, was that it prevented NPCs, followers in particular, from being able to draw and use weapons, swords, bows and the like, when they are equipped with relevant DDs, ie they couldn't them when wearing mittens, straitjackets, armbinders etc

 

I know that you said you would look at some of the code etc he had used - for something that I won't pretend to have understood ? - but I wasn't sure if that also covered what his mod does

 

Will DD5 have that sort of capability built in?   Or will we still be looking to other people, like Kharos, being as kind as maybe provide that sort of add on? 

[CovertDemon]

47 minutes ago, donkeywho said:

@Kimy

 

Just a quick query, please. 

 

One of the reasons I have been using Kharos' mod 'Better NPC Support for Devious Devices 0.1 RC 3' that has been mentioned upthread, , despite it adding a little lag, was that it prevented NPCs, followers in particular, from being able to draw and use weapons, swords, bows and the like, when they are equipped with relevant DDs, ie they couldn't them when wearing mittens, straitjackets, armbinders etc

 

I know that you said you would look at some of the code etc he had used - for something that I won't pretend to have understood ? - but I wasn't sure if that also covered what his mod does

 

Will DD5 have that sort of capability built in?   Or will we still be looking to other people, like Kharos, being as kind as maybe provide that sort of add on? 

If it does become built-in, I hope followers that can use shouts be prevented from doing so when wearing gags. If that's possible, I mean.

[Zaflis]

1 hour ago, Kimy said:

Coding this would be messier than you probably think, because these events get fired from within OnEquipped() and OnUnequipped(), respectively, and skipping events would also leave the StorageUtil settings unchanged, which would be bad in some situations.

Gear swapping is usually not called from those 2 events but some manual script by quest/talk dialogs. I'll just forget the SkipEvents topic, it's fine as is i guess and a separate issue. But is it really fine to just call Remove and Equip in quick sequence? Are you sure that not even a minor 0.1 second delay is needed inbetween? I'd guess the Skyrim's OnUnequipped() won't fire before that Equip is done. And whatever those 2 functions do in combination, a gear swap can combine the functionality to do it properly. At least modders will know how to do it and leave less to guessing on what practises you want people to use if it's all in 1 function. Even if it's just

Spoiler

function GearSwap()

  Removeitem...

  EquipItem...

end

Simple as that is still better than nothing, but if you later find that is not working in some cases you can fix it for everyone. It is important that all mods use "proper" and same coding practises.

 

We have also been discussing issues with hoods in DDX (or DDI was it?) thread. Still applies with DD5.

[Kimy]

53 minutes ago, donkeywho said:

@Kimy

 

Just a quick query, please. 

 

One of the reasons I have been using Kharos' mod 'Better NPC Support for Devious Devices 0.1 RC 3' that has been mentioned upthread, , despite it adding a little lag, was that it prevented NPCs, followers in particular, from being able to draw and use weapons, swords, bows and the like, when they are equipped with relevant DDs, ie they couldn't them when wearing mittens, straitjackets, armbinders etc

 

I know that you said you would look at some of the code etc he had used - for something that I won't pretend to have understood ? - but I wasn't sure if that also covered what his mod does

 

Will DD5 have that sort of capability built in?   Or will we still be looking to other people, like Kharos, being as kind as maybe provide that sort of add on? 

That code is not yet merged, because Kharos did not yet declare it ready to go in. The patch works more reliable than the existing solution, but at the price of having to use frequent periodic updates, which are always a performance concern. I am going to merge the code when it has deemed unproblematic by extensive testing.

[Kimy]

16 minutes ago, Zaflis said:

Gear swapping is usually not called from those 2 events but some manual script by quest/talk dialogs.

These events are getting called no matter what. They actually lift the brunt of all workload that needs to be done when manipulating devices, even more so in DD5.

16 minutes ago, Zaflis said:

But is it really fine to just call Remove and Equip in quick sequence?

When I wrote the DD5 code, I tested really brutal sequences of equipping, unequipping, adding and removing numerous devices at once, without any added delays whatsoever and did never observe any breakage. Obviously getting more feedback on this is part of what I am interested in hearing about from beta testers.

16 minutes ago, Zaflis said:

We have also been discussing issues with hoods in DDX (or DDI was it?) thread. Still applies with DD5.

Please report all DD5 relevant bugs HERE if you can. I do read the other threads too, but chances are that I will forget/overlook some bug reports if they are spread all over the forum. My desire to get rid of all these support threads for the DD framework is one of the reasons why I merged the framework into one download, haha!