Devious Devices Framework Development/Beta

[zarantha]

Kimy, before I start playing around with converting to SE, were there any changes to the dll between 4.3 and 5?

This will be just for me (and pfiffy if he wants it) until you're ready to take it out of beta. Trying to see how much extra work you added

[Guest]

Hi, I noticed a bit slower devices interactions when in inventory than what they were in 4.3.

I was trying to get out of multiple  restraints (arm, leg cuffs and harness) and message boxes appeared after 1 or 2 seconds (in 4.3 they appeared almost instantly).

In case it's needed I'm posting my payrus log.

Papyrus.0.log

[thedarkone1234]

Sorry to bring a few more "bad news", but here goes:

 

There is this new feature of timed items. I items that won't allow me to use a key until a certain time has passed. I think it is a nice idea in general but better be limited to certain "harmless" slots like the corset and bra (I got timed items on both via a normal DCL event), and not something like a belt (which I also got via DCL).

 

I found myself stuck in a chastity belt for 14 hours for the simplest kind of trap. That's a bit too much for me XD

Anyway, I planned to keep going, no problem there, but soon later I got a DCL rape, and since I had the key, they stripped my belt (it seems they don't care about the timer). When they were done with me they locked the belt back... for 16 hours ?

 

Also... the first rapist used a petsuit animation for no reason. This time I quitted the game immediatly after the entire thing was done, so I have a log for you:

 

Papyrus.0.log That's a pretty long log, though. I am pretty sure the rape we are looking for begins at  01:49:18AM. There were 2 rapists, one animation for each. The first animation is the problematic one (though if the applying of the timers on the belt is a bug, you can find it after the end of the second animation).

 

 

In addition, a very minor thing: I had a bra under the slave suit (the one which needs 6 keys to unlock from the slave set) and when I unlocked the suit the bra was invisible until I put up some clothes and removed them again.

 

On the upside of things, so far I haven't given a blowjob through a ballgag even once

 

Hope this report is useful

[thedarkone1234]

4 hours ago, osmelmc said:

I have a tweak for that too on my never shared tweaks list.

Was made for LE but should work on SE too.

 

DD Patch for FNIS Sexy Move v7.1.7z 2.92 kB · 5 downloads

Thanks for that, but it seems to require ZAZ animation pack?

I still try to avoid installing in alongside DD ?

[Zaflis]

I'm finding a bad pattern with Laura's mod where she has scripts in several places that swap tight hobble or straightjacket gear with loose one (to be able to move faster). The tight one is removed always but the loose one is often left unequipped, it's just in the inventory. Only once so far did i see it work, it's unreliable.

 

So should there be an actual API function to properly swap item with another?

 

Cursed Loot rape also removed (and left removed) blindfold before sex but that's old DCL now and might not be relevant for a report. Worth checking on the new one.

[OsmelMC]

59 minutes ago, thedarkone1234 said:

Thanks for that, but it seems to require ZAZ animation pack?

I still try to avoid installing in alongside DD ?

Good point. I going to do one Installation file with the 3 compatibility versions and upload it to my topic.

[ItsYaBoi1738]

With the full release of DD5, will there be any way of me playing on my existing save?

[Nymra]

 

Quote

Sexlab Utility Plus

I wouldn't know. I never used this mod or even looked at it.

Its basically an extension and improvement of Sexlab and has alot of advantages over not having it. Apart from allowing 1000 animations to register, stabilizing SL in general, adding aggressive Foreplay option, more detailed stripping, ability to toggle individual animations from DD framework on/off in Sexlab Toggle System, improving compatibility with mods that call Sexlab it also has a feature in development which registers nearby furniture (say a chair or table) and moves the sex scene over there. This is also meant to work with ZAP Furnitures and, in the future, maybe can also work with your Devious Contraptions, provided they are compatible with existing furniture animations (for example classic like pillory or X Cross). 
So maybe it is worth looking at it. 

The Filter system is also implemented to have a better selection of DD animations through multistage filtering. I have not tested that one extensivly tho. 
As long as DD 5 is not altering Sexlab Scripts (which I doubt) this should be compatible without any problems. 
 

 

[Kimy]

3 hours ago, ItsYaBoi1738 said:

With the full release of DD5, will there be any way of me playing on my existing save?

You can always try and clean your save and see what happens. But I am not officially going to support upgrade installations for a new major version. YMMV

[thedarkone1234]

One thing I forgot to mention yesterday: I confirmed that the "Better NPC support" for DD is still needed to prevent some NPC bugs after reentering areas or teleporting.

 

Later today I plan to test if the current version of "Better NPC support" works well if I just install it into my game.

Am also going to disable DD animation filters and enable "sexlab utility plus" DD filters again, to see if these still work the same way.

 

Will update. Can only do it in 7 hours or so...

[UnEvenSteven]

Well I've pretty much have made no progress on fixing the skin distortion issues with straitjackets. I've even tried remaking some of the straitjackets with fresh, new bodies and that still didn't work. I've delved into changing around biped slots in hopes of solving issues with skin distortion and hands or gloves still showing on NPCs when wearing straitjackets, no luck there either.

 

For some Skyrim™ reason setting 33-Hands on straitjackets causes skin distortion. It's intermittent as sometimes there will be a problem but if you un-equip then re-equip the same straitjacket or a different variant the skin issue returns.

 

However setting 33-Hands on straitjackets causes another issue, it'll break gloves or mittens if you're already wearing a jacket. The opposite can also happen if you're wearing gloves/mittens and a try to equip a jacket. By break I mean the device won't equip (you don't see it worn) and you can simply unequip it without any lock manipulation or struggling. The scripts appears to completely break if you try and equip gloves/mittens while wearing a straitjacket or vice versa. This is most likely caused by Biped slot conflicts, the straitjacket can't be equipped because gloves/mittens are already occupying the same Biped slot, same goes for the opposite.

 

So having 33-Hands checked off inn the Armor entries for straitjackets breaks more than just the skin texture, it breaks the scripting/equipping of other devices because of Biped slot conflicts. I know setting 33-Hands was meant to solve the issue with hands or gloves still showing on NPCs while their wearing jackets but it's breaking more things then solving them.

 

Could a set of invisible gloves be script-equipped to NPCs while they're wearing jackets to hide hands/gloves/mittens? I don't know what else to do unless hands or gloves can be hidden by script.

 

 

[thedarkone1234]

9 hours ago, thedarkone1234 said:

One thing I forgot to mention yesterday: I confirmed that the "Better NPC support" for DD is still needed to prevent some NPC bugs after reentering areas or teleporting.

 

Later today I plan to test if the current version of "Better NPC support" works well if I just install it into my game.

Am also going to disable DD animation filters and enable "sexlab utility plus" DD filters again, to see if these still work the same way.

 

Will update. Can only do it in 7 hours or so...

As promised:

 

I installed the "Better NPC support" again. Seems to still work well, possibly a bit slower. Also installed @osmelmc's new FNIS sexy move fix. It works, but a bit with a visible delay of about 5 seconds after loading in (at least if I walk into the room and immediatly have the bound NPC in my sight, which isn't always the case, of course, so it is a big improvement!).

It is also possible that the delay is caused by the NPC support re-equiping the devices upon loading of the cell, didn't test it yet.

 

As for sexlab utility plus's filter. No issues found so far. I will keep playing with it on a bit longer.

 

Can't wait for the time DCL uses DDC in "Left in the wilderness", btw. Just a random thought XD

 

To sum the existing pressing issues now:

We have the DD animation filter sometimes taking overly bound animations for no reason (i.e petsuit animation on a character with free arms and pussy).

We have some devices applying themselves with a long timer, not always considering circumstances [I might be locked in that chastity belt forever if I keep having it removed and reapplied with a new timer every time I am raped XD]

 

 

Also... maybe wishful thinking, but what are the chances for BHUNP slides for the DD devices? Namely bras. I can't use breast node scaling right now because the body is BHUNP and the bra is UUNP so they lose sync and move seperately if I do that. [I use TBBP, not 3BBB, so BHUNP should essentially work like UUNP long as I don't touch unique sliders, but it just doesn't seem to work in practice specifically about breast scaling XD]

[Kimy]

50 minutes ago, UnEvenSteven said:

Well I've pretty much have made no progress on fixing the skin distortion issues with straitjackets. I've even tried remaking some of the straitjackets with fresh, new bodies and that still didn't work. I've delved into changing around biped slots in hopes of solving issues with skin distortion and hands or gloves still showing on NPCs when wearing straitjackets, no luck there either.

 

For some Skyrim™ reason setting 33-Hands on straitjackets causes skin distortion. It's intermittent as sometimes there will be a problem but if you un-equip then re-equip the same straitjacket or a different variant the skin issue returns.

 

However setting 33-Hands on straitjackets causes another issue, it'll break gloves or mittens if you're already wearing a jacket. The opposite can also happen if you're wearing gloves/mittens and a try to equip a jacket. By break I mean the device won't equip (you don't see it worn) and you can simply unequip it without any lock manipulation or struggling. The scripts appears to completely break if you try and equip gloves/mittens while wearing a straitjacket or vice versa. This is most likely caused by Biped slot conflicts, the straitjacket can't be equipped because gloves/mittens are already occupying the same Biped slot, same goes for the opposite.

 

So having 33-Hands checked off inn the Armor entries for straitjackets breaks more than just the skin texture, it breaks the scripting/equipping of other devices because of Biped slot conflicts. I know setting 33-Hands was meant to solve the issue with hands or gloves still showing on NPCs while their wearing jackets but it's breaking more things then solving them.

 

Could a set of invisible gloves be script-equipped to NPCs while they're wearing jackets to hide hands/gloves/mittens? I don't know what else to do unless hands or gloves can be hidden by script.

 

 

Yeah, I am already thinking about working around this issue by equipping an invisible item to block the slot when a SJ is worn, but no glove device. It's a messy way to fix it, but if we can't find out to fix the skin distortion directly, it might be the only way.

[Kimy]

59 minutes ago, thedarkone1234 said:

As promised:

 

I installed the "Better NPC support" again. Seems to still work well, possibly a bit slower. Also installed @osmelmc's new FNIS sexy move fix. It works, but a bit with a visible delay of about 5 seconds after loading in (at least if I walk into the room and immediatly have the bound NPC in my sight, which isn't always the case, of course, so it is a big improvement!).

It is also possible that the delay is caused by the NPC support re-equiping the devices upon loading of the cell, didn't test it yet.

I don't know. I never tried either of these patches. Right now, my main concern is getting DD's own code to work and worry about compatibility issues later.

 

Quote

Can't wait for the time DCL uses DDC in "Left in the wilderness", btw. Just a random thought XD

Haha!

 

Quote

 

To sum the existing pressing issues now:

We have the DD animation filter sometimes taking overly bound animations for no reason (i.e petsuit animation on a character with free arms and pussy).

We have some devices applying themselves with a long timer, not always considering circumstances [I might be locked in that chastity belt forever if I keep having it removed and reapplied with a new timer every time I am raped XD]

The second is not really a bug, as the code is doing what it's meant to do. It's more a design problem. I might need to fix this in DCL rather than DD, as it's the "remove belt" causing these "infinite timer resets" I will think of something!

 

Quote

 

Also... maybe wishful thinking, but what are the chances for BHUNP slides for the DD devices?

I'd think about adding support for a new body only if a) a new body takes over a very significant market share, and b) somebody volunteers to make and support the slider sets for DD. I am honestly not up to speed about the body mod market these days. I know there is a new body that's quite popular on the SE side of things, but I wouldn't know which one. I don't have SE installed at all.

[Derenriche]

The elbow shackles are using yoke's bound combat animations, which probably is not intended.

 

To be more precise, it uses the yoke's movement animations in combat.

 

Elbow shackle also doesn't seem to allow any form of interactions with it, all it says when attempting to unequip the item is carry on.

[UnEvenSteven]

It's more than the skin distortion though, the scripting for gloves/mittens and jackets can be broken because neither can be properly equipped together because of the 33-Hands Biped slot conflict.

[Kharos]

22 hours ago, Kimy said:

Blargh. I had no idea of that side effect when I applied the fix. That slot 33 would hide any gauntlets I'd consider intentional behavior, but this skin bug is bad. Not sure how to proceed with this. Floating hands are bad, but skin distortion is probably worse. :S

 

It's not a coding issue. There is no code in DD I could remotely imagine being responsible for this behavior.

 

28 minutes ago, Kimy said:

Yeah, I am already thinking about working around this issue by equipping an invisible item to block the slot when a SJ is worn, but no glove device. It's a messy way to fix it, but if we can't find out to fix the skin distortion directly, it might be the only way.

 

I investigated this issue when I implemented Better NPC Support for Devious Devices. While I cannot know for sure (to know for sure I would need the source code of Skyrim), I have come to the conclusion that this is an engine bug..

 

The first observation that I made was that when I equip straitjackets or elbow binders on NPCs, the hands are not hidden even though the flag for slot 33 is set in the armor addon. Some experimentation showed that this is caused by the flag missing in the armor itself. My guess is that some programmer optimized the case when the equipment of a currently loaded NPC is changed and neglected to handle this case correctly (maybe they just checked the armor instead of the armor addon).

The second observation was that this issue can be fixed by doing things that force the game to reevaluate the NPC. Examples include saving and loading the game, going through a loading screen, and even a disable-wait-enable cycle on the NPC. Unfortunately none of these are really optimal.

 

I then took a look at ActorScript and experimented with a few functions, and found out that calling UpdateWeight on the actor fixed the issue, too (most probably it forces the game to reevaluate the NPC). So this is my current workaround. It is not super nice but it seems to work.

Bottom  line, @Kimy try to call UpdateWeight(0) after equipping the rendered device, that's what fixed the bug for me. I hope that this is a general fix and not only something that works on my setup ?. Also the documentation of that function is somewhat unclear, and claim both that changes are session only and persistent ?. So it may need additional testing to make sure that it does not cause any issues.

 

PS: I have no idea if it works when it is done directly after equipping the device. It might be necessary to wait a frame or two after equipping the device.

[Kimy]

11 minutes ago, UnEvenSteven said:

It's more than the skin distortion though, the scripting for gloves/mittens and jackets can be broken because neither can be properly equipped together because of the 33-Hands Biped slot conflict.

Yes, we need to find a better way, This fix isn't really working.

[Kimy]

1 minute ago, Kharos said:

I investigated this issue when I implemented Better NPC Support for Devious Devices. While I cannot know for sure (to know for sure I would need the source code of Skyrim), I have come to the conclusion that this is an engine bug..

It's very likely yet another engine bug, yes. It makes zero sense for the player actor behaving differently than NPCs.

 

1 minute ago, Kharos said:

The first observation that I made was that when I equip straitjackets or elbow binders on NPCs, the hands are not hidden even though the flag for slot 33 is set in the armor addon. Some experimentation showed that this is caused by the flag missing in the armor itself. My guess is that some programmer optimized the case when the equipment of a currently loaded NPC is changed and neglected to handle this case correctly (maybe they just checked the armor instead of the armor addon).

The second observation was that this issue can be fixed by doing things that force the game to reevaluate the NPC. Examples include saving and loading the game, going through a loading screen, and even a disable-wait-enable cycle on the NPC. Unfortunately none of these are really optimal.

 

I then took a look at ActorScript and experimented with a few functions, and found out that calling UpdateWeight on the actor fixed the issue, too (most probably it forces the game to reevaluate the NPC). So this is my current workaround. It is not super nice but it seems to work.

Bottom  line, @Kimy try to call UpdateWeight(0) after equipping the rendered device, that's what fixed the bug for me. I hope that this is a general fix and not only something that works on my setup ?. Also the documentation of that function is somewhat unclear, and claim both that changes are session only and persistent ?. So it may need additional testing to make sure that it does not cause any issues.

 

PS: My code runs after the item has been equipped. I have no idea if it works when it is done directly after equipping the device. It might be necessary to wait a frame or two after equipping the device.

Yes, that's fantastic news! If calling that simple command fixes the problem, we're golden! That's super easy to do!

[Derenriche]

I don't know if it is just me, but having both corset and chastity belt equipped right now will cause the belt to simply disappear from the character model.

[OsmelMC]

1 hour ago, thedarkone1234 said:

We have the DD animation filter sometimes taking overly bound animations for no reason

That's "SexLab Utility Plus" issue because the filters are too many for the way that are applied and tends to fail. I'm working on the new filter system more accurate and faster thanks to one conversation between @Kimy and @Nymra were I don't take part but read carefully. Until now the new filter system seems to be working very good but need more test to be sure.

 

DDi is not made to detect the Bound Animations registered on SexLab and that's why don't try to prevent them for be played. In fact (coding speaking) for DDi the only Bound Animations are the ones added by the same DDi and those are added in a way that only are used if someone specific call for them using the names (good trick by the way) and the only Mods making use of those Animations are DD Mods for that reason don't try to detect the Bound Animations

[Kimy]

5 minutes ago, Derenriche said:

I don't know if it is just me, but having both corset and chastity belt equipped right now will cause the belt to simply disappear from the character model.

Expected behavior is that the corset will be drawn over the belt (the bottom/shield part of the belt is still visible). If this did not work like that for you, which belt and which corset were you wearing? Right now I cannot guarantee this feature to work with corsets or belts other than the ones in DD's own library. That's one of the few things that aren't backwards compatible with existing items, so 3rd party mods would need to change any corsets or belts in their own libraries.

[Zaflis]

1 hour ago, UnEvenSteven said:

Well I've pretty much have made no progress on fixing the skin distortion issues with straitjackets.

Have you tried different texture compression methods? For one thing texture should include mipmaps i think. There used to be texture distortion in 4.x DDX when new gags were introduced, only high quality video settings in skyrimprefs fixed that, but i suppose it's just something that can cause problems internally if they're not done right in the first place. I assume they might still look distorted when you set skyrim on medium.

I also assume some texture optimizers might lose the mipmap data.

[UnEvenSteven]

58 minutes ago, Zaflis said:

Have you tried different texture compression methods? For one thing texture should include mipmaps i think. There used to be texture distortion in 4.x DDX when new gags were introduced, only high quality video settings in skyrimprefs fixed that, but i suppose it's just something that can cause problems internally if they're not done right in the first place. I assume they might still look distorted when you set skyrim on medium.

I also assume some texture optimizers might lose the mipmap data.

 

I never altered the textures for straitjackets and the body textures I use, albeit somewhat custom and have been using them for over a year now, all have mipmaps. And I've kept texture settings for BGS games on High since the Oblivion days as textures added by mods may not have mipmaps and you'd get distorted/rainbow textures if you didn't have textures set to High.

 

The texture distortion can happen now with regular and legbinder varaints of the straitjackets, which I didn't alter in any when creating these new variants. There may engine or script issues going on and Kharos and Kimy might be figuring it out.

[Derenriche]

1 hour ago, Kimy said:

Expected behavior is that the corset will be drawn over the belt (the bottom/shield part of the belt is still visible). If this did not work like that for you, which belt and which corset were you wearing? Right now I cannot guarantee this feature to work with corsets or belts other than the ones in DD's own library. That's one of the few things that aren't backwards compatible with existing items, so 3rd party mods would need to change any corsets or belts in their own libraries.

I was using the silver padded chastity belt with the red ebonite restrictive corset, both native to the DD library.