Fallout 4 Popularity & Loverslab

[DocClox]

Or any other thread, really. Misogyny is not a rare occurrence in this community, so while I would love to believe that the people here are capable of creating and viewing extreme content without letting it influence them, some statements lead me to doubt that. There's a certain measure of awareness required for the 'it's not real' argument to hold any importance and I think it's important to remember that many (not all, obviously) do not actually have that.

Mmmm... Misogyny is the unreasoning fear and hatred of all women. I think what you see in this thread is more of a healthy suspicion regarding a comparatively small clique of radical feminists who by their own admission would very much like to destroy this community, demonize what we do, see it prohibited under law and probably classed as a formal sex offense.

 

Is it still paranoia when they really are out to get you?

[Adorkable]

 

Or any other thread, really. Misogyny is not a rare occurrence in this community, so while I would love to believe that the people here are capable of creating and viewing extreme content without letting it influence them, some statements lead me to doubt that. There's a certain measure of awareness required for the 'it's not real' argument to hold any importance and I think it's important to remember that many (not all, obviously) do not actually have that.

Mmmm... Misogyny is the unreasoning fear and hatred of all women. I think what you see in this thread is more of a healthy suspicion regarding a comparatively small clique of radical feminists who by their own admission would very much like to destroy this community, demonize what we do, see it prohibited under law and probably classed as a formal sex offense.

 

Is it still paranoia when they really are out to get you?

 

 

Expressing criticism is not comparable to wanting to destroy something, though. Which is something that many people on the internet (I'm not talking about you specifically) seem to have trouble grasping. Cue hundreds of gamers screaming that people like Anita Sarkeesian are 'gonna ruin the gaming industry' as though mere criticism might make gaming companies all over the world spontaneously combust. (And quite frankly, anyone who uses the word 'feminazi' unironically or actually thinks Sarkeesian is a radical feminist very clearly goes beyond 'healthy suspicion'. I mean, really now. If that's what counts as radical feminism nowadays...)

 

I do wonder, though, where you get the notion that anyone is out to destroy LL or, as you say, go so far as to 'classify it as a formal sex offense'? I assume it's based on more than the above article, but I've never seen sex mods mentioned much and while feminism does concern itself with rape culture (which, yes, could be seen as connected to extreme content in porn), kink-shaming is not usually part of that.

 

In fact, the only 'feminists' I've ever meet who are intent on telling people what they can't or can't get aroused by (going so far as to shame people for the characters they like) were a new breed of (obviously very young) people on tumblr who have trouble making the distinction between reality and fantasy and thus think everyone who likes rape in porn is also automatically a rapist themselves. Haven't yet seen them go off on mods, though - they mostly inhabit cartoon fandoms.

 

 

 

Man, I would love to have a reasoned and introspective discussion about this. Not sure if that's possible, but it would be great. As someone who's values are aligned with Feminism and Consent Culture, I find it frustrating that LoversLab is dismissed on prejudiced or aesthetic grounds masquerading as progressive concerns.

 

Because LoversLab is absolutely compatible with the vision of equality among genders, and the elimination of the tacit acceptance of rape in our cultures.

 

I would even argue that it should exist and needs to exist, especially on those terms.

I personally have never found any mod to be offensive in any way. Violent? Definitely. Sexist? Most certainly. But the difference between regular media and what the people here are doing is clearly defined insofar as that the people here are aware that these mods do not and should not reflect real life. I daresay no one here would look at a mod like Sexlab Defeat and go 'yes yes I see nothing wrong with this'.

Now I'm a feminist through and through and I have very strong opinions about sexism in media, but porn has always been a different sort of topic for me. I'm bothered by sexism in media because it's usually depicted as 'normal' - people don't stop to think about whether it's right or wrong. The mods here on LL are handled differently by the community itself. We know that it's kinky and absolutely not fit for any place other than fantasy.

 

I am interested in why you seem to think that LL could serve to eliminate inequality and rape culture rather than strengthen it, however. I can see the other side of the argument, but I don't think I've ever heard anyone argue that LL is a positive development rather than something to be just accepted.

[Aria]

Well imho, this fake feminism is all about a bunch of women who get butthurt on anything related to males and use it as an excuse to get what they want.

They seem to be always active towards things that arent important, nor are they helping the true victims, of what this movement has stand for in the first place.

They make lots of noise in places without sound.

[DigitalP]

Ok so in my line of work, not a day goes past where I see an article about such things as the 'male gaze', unrealistic body image, depiction of women and misogyny. During my university degree as well I had to research a lot of these issues. (Fine Art........Yeah I'm a art theorist and fashion photographer) 

 

I stand by what I said above about certain mods crossing the line. There is literally no place for such mods IMO. Like I mentioned if such content was implied then yeah ok. Within the Fallout world and to a lesser extent Elder Scrolls implying such things is ok. The developers themselves have included some really disturbing things in both universes. But when it comes to actually interacting, that is crossing the line on what is acceptable in todays age. 

 

Further to all this. By far the biggest problem we have today is that nobody likes criticism and especially in the gaming community there is a tendancy to approach criticism very negatively. I don't agree with much of what Anita Sarkeesian says nor do I think her methods pass the test in an academic sense. However what she does do very well is sell herself and comes across as somebody who has spent the time and effort to make it appear that she actually knows what she is talking about. You see this all the time in Acadamia, especially in social studies, art, fine art ect. 

 

However the abuse that she and others like her have recieved over the years. It is quite shocking to be honest. Now the best way to approach this is not to respond in a derogative way because that only strengthens their argument. Rather, the best way is to ensure what you are saying is accurate, factual and has source material because people like Anita Sarkeesian are coming from an academic viewpoint and unless you come from the same angle, any argument you make will fall flat and more often then not will give further material to such people to continue their criticism. 

 

You would be quite surprised what you can get away with if you properly put forward your case and it's something to keep in mind when such issues and discussions take place. 

 

 

[DocClox]

Cue hundreds of gamers screaming that people like Anita Sarkeesian are 'gonna ruin the gaming industry' as though mere criticism might make gaming companies all over the world spontaneously combust. (And quite frankly, anyone who uses the word 'feminazi' unironically or actually thinks Sarkeesian is a radical feminist very clearly goes beyond 'healthy suspicion'. I mean, really now. If that's what counts as radical feminism nowadays...)

If it helps any, I barely know who Ms.Sarkeesian is.

 

I do wonder, though, where you get the notion that anyone is out to destroy LL or, as you say, go so far as to 'classify it as a formal sex offense'? I assume it's based on more than the above article, but I've never seen sex mods mentioned much and while feminism does concern itself with rape culture (which, yes, could be seen as connected to extreme content in porn), kink-shaming is not usually part of that.

I said "probably classed as a formal sex offense". The word "probably" is important to the meaning.

 

And, maybe it's just me, but I don't see the point of such an essentially political document as the Geek Feminist Wiki unless it's intended to be used for political purposes. Marshaling arguments and making lists of undesirable groups seems far more like a foundation for a political campaign to bring about legislative change than it does an academic exercise in Feminist Criticism. I mean, I'm sure there are some who contribute just for the satisfaction of taking something they see as problematic and analysing the problem clearly, but I have difficulty believing that everyone involved is quite so ivory tower in their ambitions.

 

Like I say, I think it's a legitimate concern.

[windu190]

 

Or any other thread, really. Misogyny is not a rare occurrence in this community, so while I would love to believe that the people here are capable of creating and viewing extreme content without letting it influence them, some statements lead me to doubt that. There's a certain measure of awareness required for the 'it's not real' argument to hold any importance and I think it's important to remember that many (not all, obviously) do not actually have that.

Mmmm... Misogyny is the unreasoning fear and hatred of all women. I think what you see in this thread is more of a healthy suspicion regarding a comparatively small clique of radical feminists who by their own admission would very much like to destroy this community, demonize what we do, see it prohibited under law and probably classed as a formal sex offense.

 

Is it still paranoia when they really are out to get you?

 

 

Exactly. Granted not all feminists are like that, but there are definitely man hating radicals who would shut this place down if they could. There's even a feminist who wants to put all men in concentration camps and another one wants to reduce the male population by 90% and lock the remaining ones up. And these people have followers! 

[Guest endgameaddiction]

Well imho, this fake feminism is all about a bunch of women who get butthurt on anything related to males and use it as an excuse to get what they want.

They seem to be always active towards things that arent important, nor are they helping the true victims, of what this movement has stand for in the first place.

They make lots of noise in places without sound.

 

They're just attention whores. Nothing more. They want their 15mins of fame on youtube with their jibberish. I personally find youtubers who create videos to fire back criticism to people like Anita a waste of time. People like her don't get it and don't care to. They just want to have an excuse to complain about something. And for what? Absolutely nothing.

 

She doesn't control the world, nor the rest of the feminazi's out there. Their only power is to bitch and nag at anything that doesn't fit suitable to them,

 

All feminazi's need to go see a psychologist. Need their brains rewired. Probably have their hormone cables reattached so they can get over their stupidity and embrace the sexual side of life.

[garg]

 I say leave us gamers alone and go pick on the real shit in the real world! Were just trying to have fun and don't harm anyone! We don't have time to!

[Aria]

 

Well imho, this fake feminism is all about a bunch of women who get butthurt on anything related to males and use it as an excuse to get what they want.

They seem to be always active towards things that arent important, nor are they helping the true victims, of what this movement has stand for in the first place.

They make lots of noise in places without sound.

 

They're just attention whores. Nothing more. They want their 15mins of fame on youtube with their jibberish. I personally find youtubers who create videos to fire back criticism to people like Anita a waste of time. People like her don't get it and don't care to. They just want to have an excuse to complain about something. And for what? Absolutely nothing.

 

She doesn't control the world, nor the rest of the feminazi's out there. Their only power is to bitch and nag at anything that doesn't fit suitable to them,

 

All feminazi's need to go see a psychologist. Need their brains rewired. Probably have their hormone cables reattached so they can get over their stupidity and embrace the sexual side of life.

 

 

Yeah, they bloating up the whole internet with that shite and the sad part is lots of people, even companies, listen to them, while the true feminists are left somewhere in the background.

 

Anita is good at what she is doing, sucking money out of feminazis and thats the only part i like about her

 

[Adorkable]

See, these last few comments demonstrate what annoys me about gamer culture pretty well.

 

The word 'feminazi' gets thrown around like it's going out of style and used utterly inappropriately. The truly radical feminists, those who really have a skewered view of the world (and who, much like radical anythings, probably ought to take a long hard look at themselves), are a miniscule part of the population. And throwing all feminists under the bus by throwing around the word 'feminazi' - that's hurting feminism because it villifies reasonable statements like 'Hey, I'd like gaming companies to be more aware of the messages they send'.

 

 

Well imho, this fake feminism is all about a bunch of women who get butthurt on anything related to males and use it as an excuse to get what they want.

They seem to be always active towards things that arent important, nor are they helping the true victims, of what this movement has stand for in the first place.

They make lots of noise in places without sound.

 

So tell me, what DO they want? What would you classify as 'important'? Feminism fights for a lot of things, including social equality and a change in how society thinks. Media and its depiction of gender is a part of that because it has an influence. This includes video games. And the argument that they 'make a lot of noise in places without sound' seems very inaccurate, considering the fact that Sarkeesian's videos (regardless of what you might think of her or the content of her videos) and the absolute (and unjustified) outrage it caused in the gamer community has brought the topic of sexism in video games to the forefront of people's minds.

 

 

I said "probably classed as a formal sex offense". The word "probably" is important to the meaning.

And, maybe it's just me, but I don't see the point of such an essentially political document as the Geek Feminist Wiki unless it's intended to be used for political purposes. Marshaling arguments and making lists of undesirable groups seems far more like a foundation for a political campaign to bring about legislative change than it does an academic exercise in Feminist Criticism. I mean, I'm sure there are some who contribute just for the satisfaction of taking something they see as problematic and analysing the problem clearly, but I have difficulty believing that everyone involved is quite so ivory tower in their ambitions.

Like I say, I think it's a legitimate concern.

 

I know, I was just wondering where you got the idea in the first place.

 

It probably depends on what you mean by 'political purpose'. Discussion about extreme content in porn and video games and such rarely mean that its goal is to utterly destroy the subject in question. Rather, it's meant to raise awareness, to make sure that people know that it's problematic. But as I said, I don't really agree with the analysis they posted and I think they're kinda barking up the wrong tree - as I said, LL is aware of its problematic aspects.

 

 

Exactly. Granted not all feminists are like that, but there are definitely man hating radicals who would shut this place down if they could. There's even a feminist who wants to put all men in concentration camps and another one wants to reduce the male population by 90% and lock the remaining ones up. And these people have followers!

 

There are radical people like that in every corner of the world, not just in feminism. And the really important part? They're not feminists, no matter what they want to call themselves. The point of feminism is and always has been equality for all genders and their point of view is absolutely not compatible with the spirit of feminism. Julie Bindel especially is a poor example of feminism or, well, humanity in general. She also seems to think that sexuality is a choice and that boxing should be banned because all boxers are stupid.

So, you know, there's always gonna be bad people with stupid views around. Thankfully there are by far not enough of them to have any influence on what the movement is actually about.

 

 

They're just attention whores. Nothing more. They want their 15mins of fame on youtube with their jibberish. I personally find youtubers who create videos to fire back criticism to people like Anita a waste of time. People like her don't get it and don't care to. They just want to have an excuse to complain about something. And for what? Absolutely nothing.

 

She doesn't control the world, nor the rest of the feminazi's out there. Their only power is to bitch and nag at anything that doesn't fit suitable to them,

 

All feminazi's need to go see a psychologist. Need their brains rewired. Probably have their hormone cables reattached so they can get over their stupidity and embrace the sexual side of life.

 

And people wonder why I say misogony is a thing in this community. 'Attention whores'. 'Feminazi'. 'I'm not willing to listen to them and I don't care about their issues, therefore their opinions must not have any value'.

Right, and let's not forget the assumption that 'feminazis' are apparently a bunch of frigid idiots with mental health issues for daring to criticise something you personally see no problem with.

 

 

 I say leave us gamers alone and go pick on the real shit in the real world! Were just trying to have fun and don't harm anyone! We don't have time to!

 

Nobody is picking on gamers. People are criticising games - which does not mean that the people who play them are in the wrong. Plus, you know, one would assume people who criticise are probably gamers, too.

 

 

Yeah, they bloating up the whole internet with that shite and the sad part is lots of people, even companies, listen to them, while the true feminists are left somewhere in the background.

 

Anita is good at what she is doing, sucking money out of feminazis and thats the only part i like about her

 

'True feminists' as opposed to what? Feminists who take care of the areas that aren't being taken care of already? You guys seem to think people are doing it for attention, which...yes. That's kinda the point of talking about it - getting people to pay attention to these issues.

 

Okay, let's make this easier on both of us - what IS a 'feminazi' for you? Is it Sarkeesian herself? (And if so, why?) The people who support her by giving her money? (Which, by the way, seems like a weird thing to get worked up about. It's not like she held anyone at gun point and forced them to donate.)

[Guest]

Hello,

 

this thread is becoming a little bit too much aggressive.

 

Please review rule number 8:

"In an effort to keep the site & community inviting and friendly we do not allow several categories of conversation. This is not intended as censorship or endorsement of any particular view, but rather a move to keep this site neutral and open. The categories of conversation that are not welcome include those discussing politics and religion. Too often these discussions descend into pointless bickering and lead to offending one party or the other (if not both). This sends the wrong message of what this site is all about. There are plenty of forums, blogs and other online outlets available for these types of conversations, this site is not one of them."

 

This thread will be locked for a few days.

 

[Guest]

Topic unlocked.

 

Please be stay on topic, on this topic.

If you want to blame someone (no other members) or rant (but don't be a drama queen) then start your own topic.

 

[DocClox]

The word 'feminazi' gets thrown around like it's going out of style and used utterly inappropriately. The truly radical feminists, those who really have a skewered view of the world (and who, much like radical anythings, probably ought to take a long hard look at themselves), are a miniscule part of the population. And throwing all feminists under the bus by throwing around the word 'feminazi' - that's hurting feminism because it villifies reasonable statements like 'Hey, I'd like gaming companies to be more aware of the messages they send'.

 

I know what you mean. Me, I'm a free software geek, and nothing sets my teeth on edge quite like someone talking about "freetards". It reduces the entire debate down to schoolboy name calling, which I suppose is the point. And while intellectually I know that the use of the term says more about the person using it than the people they're talking about, it still starts me growling.

 

The thing is though, there are lots of people in the Free Software movement who are deeply and genuinely unlikable and who have worked hard to become so. There are people who associate themselves with the movement who will do their best to ruin your entire week just for suggesting that using a proprietary graphics driver with a Linux kernel should be a matter of individual choice. And while I wouldn't call them "freetards" personally, if I'm honest with myself I can understand how they became the focus of such derision and contempt.

 

It seems to me that you're in a similar position with respect to the term "feminazi". You seem to be a reasonable person, but there are those who fly the same flag that you do who are deeply unpleasant people. I can see how the term would set your teeth on edge, just as "freetards" does mine. But it's probably helpful to recognise that the term is aimed at the extreme end of the Feminist movement rather than at you personally.

 

And I know you're aware of this. You take great pains to distance yourself from the more extreme elements, dropping the term "feminists" into quotes, or dismissing those extremists as abberations. The trouble is that seems like a bit of a No True Scotsman fallacy. All feminists are reasonable people who want to have a constructive discussion and No True Feminist would do any thing different.

 

I won't deny there have been some intemperate remarks in this thread, but to a certain extent the root of your problem is that are Feminists out there who are hell bent on bringing the movement into disrepute. Much like the zealots in the Free Software crowd, really.

 

It probably depends on what you mean by 'political purpose'.

 

Um... "for purposes of advancing a political agenda?" It's not a term that ever struck me as particularly ambiguous. Tell you what - you give me some possible interpretations, and I'll tell you which is closest to the one I had in mind.

 

Discussion about extreme content in porn and video games and such rarely mean that its goal is to utterly destroy the subject in question.

 

Well, no, obviously. I mean having a War Against Pornography would be like a War On Terror or a War on Drugs. You can't destroy an abstract emotion with bombers and you can't land troops to occupy Aspirin. Neither can you destroy Pornography as an abstract concept. But you can arrest terrorists, you can close down sources for drugs of which you disapprove, and you can shut down sex oriented sites with content you find offensive. So, no I don't think "utterly destroy" is on anyone's agenda. That doesn't mean there's no cause for concern, however.

 

Rather, it's meant to raise awareness, to make sure that people know that it's problematic.

Hmmm. Raise whose awareness? To what end? I mean the wiki page in question clearly isn't trying to raise my awareness. It's talking about me to a feminist audience; the author is preaching to the choir. If I thought they were trying to evangelize, to win some hearts and minds among the Unenlightened, I'd have a deal more sympathy for what they're doing.

 

The question which now arises is this: what do you suppose will happen if a sufficient number of people come to be aware of this site and are persuaded to share the view that it is indeed problematic? Will they all say "oh well, I'm glad we got that sorted out, I'll make sure never to visit that place" perhaps? My guess is someone will say "this is a problem - we need to take action to solve this!" Because that's how people seem to think.

 

But as I said, I don't really agree with the analysis they posted and I think they're kinda barking up the wrong tree - as I said, LL is aware of its problematic aspects.

Yeah, I agree. And like I said before, I really don't think this thread is attacking you or women in general, or even feminists in general in most cases. It's just difficult to keep that perspective when a movement with which you identify is being criticized.

[Adorkable]

 

- snip -

 

 

I'm sorta all talked out about this (since I've continued talking with someone per PM) and I don't want to get into it again in case it might get the thread locked once more.

 

So I'm just gonna keep it short: I think the term 'feminazi' often serves as a convenient way for some people to dismiss opinions they don't agree with, which is why the term bothers me so much - apart from the obvious problem of comparing feminists with actual nazis. People are so quick to label women as 'bad' feminists, even reasonable ones, that anyone who chooses to define the movement by the parts of it they don't like that it tends to raise a giant red flag for me.

 

The thing is, feminism does have its problems. There is valid criticism about how it tends to focus on white women more than on women of colour, how some aspects of it can be quite transphobic and uncaring about people with varying gender identities. Anti-feminists just never seem to care about that.

 

Anyway, no more talk of politics. I've had my weekly dose.

[Guest endgameaddiction]

 

The word 'feminazi' gets thrown around like it's going out of style and used utterly inappropriately. The truly radical feminists, those who really have a skewered view of the world (and who, much like radical anythings, probably ought to take a long hard look at themselves), are a miniscule part of the population. And throwing all feminists under the bus by throwing around the word 'feminazi' - that's hurting feminism because it villifies reasonable statements like 'Hey, I'd like gaming companies to be more aware of the messages they send'.

 

It seems to me that you're in a similar position with respect to the term "feminazi". You seem to be a reasonable person, but there are those who fly the same flag that you do who are deeply unpleasant people. I can see how the term would set your teeth on edge, just as "freetards" does mine. But it's probably helpful to recognise that the term is aimed at the extreme end of the Feminist movement rather than at you personally.

 

 

Thank you for explaining it because I had no desire to.

[DocClox]

So I'm just gonna keep it short: I think the term 'feminazi' often serves as a convenient way for some people to dismiss opinions they don't agree with, which is why the term bothers me so much - apart from the obvious problem of comparing feminists with actual nazis.

Well, yeah. The term is clearly intended to be offensive (much like "freetards") and I don't use it myself nor do I support its use. On the other hand, I don't think it's fair to cite its use as evidence of misogyny as you appeared to do. Dislike of extremist feminists is not necessarily dislike of all feminists, which itself is not necessarily dislike of all women.

 

So I'm just gonna keep it short: IPeople are so quick to label women as 'bad' feminists, even reasonable ones, that anyone who chooses to define the movement by the parts of it they don't like that it tends to raise a giant red flag for me.

 

Or maybe the term is only being applied to the extremist members of your movement? I mean that's how I read it on this thread.

 

The thing is, feminism does have its problems. There is valid criticism about how it tends to focus on white women more than on women of colour, how some aspects of it can be quite transphobic and uncaring about people with varying gender identities. Anti-feminists just never seem to care about that.

I wouldn't say I was anti-feminist. I support the idea that women should have equal rights and equal pay and I accept that there are some cases where women need some special considerations that wouldn't apply to an all-male environment. I do glaze over though when people start talking about "the Patriarchy" and I do worry that some feminists won't be happy until society is as unfair to men as it once was to women.

 

Beyond that, it's not a subject that particularly interests me. There's no reason why I should be aware of Feminism's uneven support for various categories of femininity, any more that there's any reason you should have been following the row over Debian's adoption of systemd or Eric Raymond's attempts to redefine "Open Source" as a more corporate-friendly version of "Free Software"

 

Anyway, no more talk of politics. I've had my weekly dose.

Fair enough. Peace.

[Demonhunter]

The saying Freedom of speech goes both ways in this regard. We as people with minds of our own can/will create mods and share them with others. An there will be people who don't like them, it cannot be helped.

[Ernest Lemmingway]

The whole issue is laughable when we think about it. People once decried dime novels as "corrupting youth" and "encouraging violence." Then they moved on to comic books, movies, TV, and now video games. Every time someone points a finger, three others are pointing right back at the real problem. Sheeple don't want to take responsibility for their own failures to watch and educate their own children. Too many of them don't want to put in the effort. Others don't realize they have to do such. Every time I see or hear the same people decrying sites like Lovers Lab or adult material in general, I have to struggle not to burst out laughing because of how ridiculous it all is.

[panthercom]

The whole issue is laughable when we think about it. People once decried dime novels as "corrupting youth" and "encouraging violence." Then they moved on to comic books, movies, TV, and now video games. Every time someone points a finger, three others are pointing right back at the real problem. Sheeple don't want to take responsibility for their own failures to watch and educate their own children. Too many of them don't want to put in the effort. Others don't realize they have to do such. Every time I see or hear the same people decrying sites like Lovers Lab or adult material in general, I have to struggle not to burst out laughing because of how ridiculous it all is.

 

 There you go, demeaning sheep by comparing them to people

[Adorkable]

 

I wouldn't say I was anti-feminist. I support the idea that women should have equal rights and equal pay and I accept that there are some cases where women need some special considerations that wouldn't apply to an all-male environment. I do glaze over though when people start talking about "the Patriarchy" and I do worry that some feminists won't be happy until society is as unfair to men as it once was to women.

 

 

Oh sorry, I wasn't talking specifically about you. I meant it more in regards to my general experiences with people who consider themselves anti-feminist.

[windpl]

 

 

I wouldn't say I was anti-feminist. I support the idea that women should have equal rights and equal pay and I accept that there are some cases where women need some special considerations that wouldn't apply to an all-male environment. I do glaze over though when people start talking about "the Patriarchy" and I do worry that some feminists won't be happy until society is as unfair to men as it once was to women.

 

 

Oh sorry, I wasn't talking specifically about you. I meant it more in regards to my general experiences with people who consider themselves anti-feminist.

 

 

Feminism lost itself with invention of social "positive discrimination".  And they wonder why a thinking human being would think about them as weirdos.

[windu190]

The problem with feminism is that it has lost it's primary purpose, the reason why it was invented in the first place: Equal rights for women. 

Women already have equal rights, the movement is obsolete. Or at least in the west, there are still places in the world were feminism is needed. 

(At least that's the way it seems to me, I could be horribly wrong in that regard as I haven't really been in the loop with their current goals, so take it with a grain of salt). 

 

But it seems most feminists reside in the west and whenever I see them they are either hating on men or complaining about frivolous matters (like how women are portrayed in games).  Not saying all feminists are like that, but that has been my general experience with them. 

[spoonsinger]

The problem with feminism is that it has lost it's primary purpose, the reason why it was invented in the first place: Equal rights for women. 

Women already have equal rights, the movement is obsolete. Or at least in the west, there are still places in the world were feminism is needed. 

(At least that's the way it seems to me, I could be horribly wrong in that regard as I haven't really been in the loop with their current goals, so take it with a grain of salt). 

 

But it seems most feminists reside in the west and whenever I see them they are either hating on men or complaining about frivolous matters (like how women are portrayed in games).  Not saying all feminists are like that, but that has been my general experience with them. 

 

You are wrong. The problems are biology and time. No philosophical views are going to change that.

 

[Guest]

OK, guys.

I think this thread will be locked forever.

 

Are we discussing about feminism or what?

The thread is about "I have a bad feeling that once a FO4 sexlab mod is released. it will gain some news coverage/article's. & everybody will attack loverslab/modder's in question."

 

But it derailed, and is derailing again.

 

Now, it is not against the rules to discuss such themes, of course if you respect all people opinions.

But when a topic derails so much, and too animated comments are done, then it is better to remove it.

 

Now, consider this a general warning. I will keep it open right now.

Do you want to discuss about: what will be the criticism if we do (and we will do it) a SexLab mod for FO4 (code name: Sextec)? Go for it. This is the right thread.

Do you want to discuss about how absurd can be people, or the correct definition of a group of people, or blame somebody? In case of "blaming" just don't do it. In all other cases just start a thread (adult sections, please) and go for it.

 

Cheers.

 

 

[windu190]

My bad, I will cease and desist