Captured Dreams otfit management system poll

[Veladarius]

Currently I have 2 methods in mind for managing outfits and merchant inventory for items from other mods:

 

1: A system that uses a single esp that has the various outfits and items merged into it. The original mod's esp's would not be required as the items would be in the new esp.

        Plus: would eliminate need for a number of esp's, primarily the original mod's esp of the items.

        Minus: would likely be updated less often and I will not include anything like stores or containers or other things, just the items themselves. May also require a separate MCM menu. may not know exactly what mods are installed or not.

 

2: A system that uses scripts to pull items from other mods and insert them into CD as outfits and sale items. It would require the original mod's esp to be installed and active.

        Plus: No second esp for CD or addon esp's that are currently used. Will know what mods are installed.

        Minus: Requires the original mods but can be updated easier with just a script update.

 

 

Both systems would be controlled somewhat via the MCM menu, mostly for override functions (if a mod is/is not there for option 1) and reset. I myself am leaning towards the first option as it is less script intensive but requires more work in the CK to set up.

[Content Consumer]

I'd say pick whichever one is easier to make in the first place, but then again I'm a lazy bugger.

 

 

[Veladarius]

Both will have parts that will be a pain in the ass to handle but maintenance wise the second will likely be easier.

[Laura]

i would go for the second one then.

Less work in the long term.

[BringtheNoise]

A little bit of this and a little bit of that?

 

Alternate option 1...

What about using Tes5edit's Merge plugin for the armor, constructable bits  (both create and temper) and armor addon's. Then strip out all of the containers, cell edits etc and place the items in the armor sub menu into one of your npc's vendor list?

Well -VS- trying to do all of that in the CK.

 

Or just go with Option 2, just be careful of what you allow vendors to sell...

Cause if not then you may end up selling some high end spell books at the CD vendors (say from one of the many magic overhauls that add those to specific vendors but are items listed in the esp).

Plus if you have a high load order Option 2 may take a while to populate items...

May also want limit the amount of items a vendor offers with option 2. Cause if one of the vendors try'd to list all the items from say immersive jewelry then it would probably CTD or take for ever to load.

 

But either would be nice... option 2 could be fun if it worked well and reset every couple of days so the options items would always change...

 

(damnit I know there was one {or 3} other gramar fubar{s} in there somewhere)

[Veladarius]

A little bit of this and a little bit of that?

 

Alternate option 1...

What about using Tes5edit's Merge plugin for the armor, constructable bits  (both create and temper) and armor addon's. Then strip out all of the containers, cell edits etc and place the items in the armor sub menu into one of your npc's vendor list?

Well -VS- trying to do all of that in the CK.

 

Or just go with Option 2, just be careful of what you allow vendors to sell...

Cause if not then you may end up selling some high end spell books at the CD vendors (say from one of the many magic overhauls that add those to specific vendors but are items listed in the esp).

Plus if you have a high load order Option 2 may take a while to populate items...

May also want limit the amount of items a vendor offers with option 2. Cause if one of the vendors try'd to list all the items from say immersive jewelry then it would probably CTD or take for ever to load.

 

But either would be nice... option 2 could be fun if it worked well and reset every couple of days so the options items would always change...

 

(damnit I know there was one {or 3} other gramar fubar{s} in there somewhere)

 

What you have listed in Option 1 was the base of what I was looking to do. The issue is organizing it since it would include every mod to be used and some people would not use them all. I think I can get it to detect what mods you do and don't have with this setup but I'm not sure it would work 100% so an override would be needed in an MCM menu.

 

Option 2 I would only be using specific items from mods, basically grab the item and put it into a leveled list to be used for selling or wearing. This version would probably be more accurate in determining what you have and work a bit easier. I would make slots for mods, each with a script and lists preset, if there is no item then it is all empty but if the mod is there then it will populate everything. I can leave extra slots and build dummy sets so updating for a mod just requires replacing the dummy script.

[Guest]

The crowd has spoken and once more, I am in the minority.

What, you'd rather download a ton of unrelated mods, worry about their load order, worry about scripts, instead of just having the single ESP that matters?

I never understood masochism.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

edit:(sort of)

 

I downloaded a utility almost a year ago to merge mods, and I *did* merge them, I don't know how.

Downloaded 98% of the addons for CD.

(Wait, downloaded, then merged, yeah.)

I'm not sure I could do it again.

Now the question seems to be, would you rather NOT mess with utilities, would you rather NOT download lots of dependencies,

or would you rather be a slave to an extremely anal retentive system that has fainting spells?

I choose the Esp!!

9999999999 (My9 key has lost its click on an extremely expensive keyboard. Now I suppose you'd have me run out and buy another keyboard, instead of just ignoring the number "9" (the parenthetical one)?

[Zhash61]

I gotta go with option 1.  With all the script heavy mods I have running, as well as the total number I have already as it is, it just seems a better option for me...

[Nazzzgul666]

Actually, i don't know why CD should even have vendors to sell things from other mods, especially if i need to install them as well. For me, the main feature of this part would be to get rid of the endless amount of things i have in smithing options, so definitly option 1.

[Veladarius]

Actually, i don't know why CD should even have vendors to sell things from other mods, especially if i need to install them as well. For me, the main feature of this part would be to get rid of the endless amount of things i have in smithing options, so definitly option 1.

 

The primary purpose of it is to add extra outfits for the npc's to wear and be able to buy those items as well, especially DD enabled items that don't have any crafting recipes.

[mangalo]

I'm not sure I understand, is it 1 esp that handles everything versus various esp with scripts ?  I've never used CD addons.

 

I don't have much space left in my load order to allow a lot of esp :/

[Veladarius]

I understand, I have merged a number of mods myself to reduce the esp count as well.

 

Option 1, the esp version, would combine all the various mods to be included into 1 esp separate from CD so the esp's from the various armor and clothing mods would not be needed. Mods merged in this esp would include only the items and not anything else those esp's may have had (vendor, location where they could be found in the wilderness etc...).

 

Option 2, the scripted version, would require the esp's from the other mods be active and would not interfere with those mods in any way.

 

I may be able to do a hybrid of the two with Option 1 as its base but have features of Option 2. This could handle quick updates, handle mods that don't merge well, have features that people want to keep (like the UNP Merchants mod) or have items that I don't want or need to include all of (weapons or other items).

[mangalo]

Sorry, I only noticed now that you explained it on the first post of this page, but thanks for the explanation

 

Just my two cents of ignorance here but isn't it possible to make it work only loading the mod ressources but disabling the esp ? (Like in MO when you need Estrus for DCL and don't have to load the esp but only the ressources).

 

Also, wouldn't option 1 need author's approval everytime ?

[Veladarius]

Sorry, I only noticed now that you explained it on the first post of this page, but thanks for the explanation

 

Just my two cents of ignorance here but isn't it possible to make it work only loading the mod ressources but disabling the esp ? (Like in MO when you need Estrus for DCL and don't have to load the esp but only the ressources).

 

Also, wouldn't option 1 need author's approval everytime ?

 

Option 1 is basically just a merged mod of all the different mods with some management scripts. It would only include an esp and scripts so it would require the original mod be installed so the meshes and textures are in place but the esp would be disabled.

[greyspammer]

I voted for the script-based approach (option 2). Easier to maintain for you and more likely to avoid version conflicts for us.

 

Would the script load really be that big a factor? Doesn't it have to run only once every savegame load?

[Veladarius]

I voted for the script-based approach (option 2). Easier to maintain for you and more likely to avoid version conflicts for us.

 

Would the script load really be that big a factor? Doesn't it have to run only once every savegame load?

 

It should only need to run when adding or removing use of another mod which should persist in the save game. The scripts would be 2 types: The first is the part that collects information from the mod and puts it into the different lists. The second one that collects data from the other parts and passes it to the MCM menu so you can activate it.

 

The entire thing will be modular and I plan on making some instructions so people can make their own as empty lists will be premade, it will just need the script for the mod set up with the info from the other mod and where the items need to go to.

[Guest]

 

I voted for the script-based approach (option 2). Easier to maintain for you and more likely to avoid version conflicts for us.

 

Would the script load really be that big a factor? Doesn't it have to run only once every savegame load?

 

It should only need to run when adding or removing use of another mod which should persist in the save game. The scripts would be 2 types: The first is the part that collects information from the mod and puts it into the different lists. The second one that collects data from the other parts and passes it to the MCM menu so you can activate it.

 

The entire thing will be modular and I plan on making some instructions so people can make their own as empty lists will be premade, it will just need the script for the mod set up with the info from the other mod and where the items need to go to.

 

 

You must get 50 posts a month from users saying how this or that didn't work for them, and 

Very recently a nice person had trouble using the add-ons and merging them.

From a user's POV I think the ESP (or something where there is One single download for everything),

The homogenized-version, is best.

Only *you* can answer which you prefer (And this discussion is becoming increasingly technical, so I gloss a lot) 

I don't think there is any lack of devices currently, and no one device really stands out as indispensable, so

there goes the updated argument.

Version conflicts would not exist because you'd use clones of the real items from other mods (right?).

You have the technical know-how to do either.

 

[Veladarius]

The advantage of both systems is that there would not be a need for the player to merge any mods. Option 1 is essentially a merged mod that has its own outfit and inventory system in it as well as the armor/clothing data from the original esp's (but not the meshes or textures). It would free up esp's as the ones from the mods it includes would not be needed but the handling of what is actually installed is not very accurate. Option 2 just requires the original mod be installed and its esp active so merging those mods can't be done. It will be more accurate in what you have installed since it will detect the esp's and let you know what is available.

 

I am looking at a 3rd Option which is a bit of a hybrid of the two. Essentially it is Option 2 but an addon plugin similar to Option 1 can be made for it. The plugin would nearly be the same system as option 1 but instead of reporting directly to the MCM menu it would report to the outfit handling system. It could report what is in it and allow any mods you don't have to not be activated in the system. I am kind of leaning towards this since it will have the benefits of both.

[JDough]

The advantage of both systems is that there would not be a need for the player to merge any mods. Option 1 is essentially a merged mod that has its own outfit and inventory system in it as well as the armor/clothing data from the original esp's (but not the meshes or textures). It would free up esp's as the ones from the mods it includes would not be needed but the handling of what is actually installed is not very accurate. Option 2 just requires the original mod be installed and its esp active so merging those mods can't be done. It will be more accurate in what you have installed since it will detect the esp's and let you know what is available.

 

I am looking at a 3rd Option which is a bit of a hybrid of the two. Essentially it is Option 2 but an addon plugin similar to Option 1 can be made for it. The plugin would nearly be the same system as option 1 but instead of reporting directly to the MCM menu it would report to the outfit handling system. It could report what is in it and allow any mods you don't have to not be activated in the system. I am kind of leaning towards this since it will have the benefits of both.

 

Hi Veladarius,

I voted to Option 1 as I am already fighting constantly keeping my ESP list below 254 and I have already merged tons of mods, it's getting harder and harder to add stuff...

 

With that in mind:

If I am reading Option 3 correctly for me as a user it would mean that I have to keep all ESPs of each clothing mod (based on the current CD addons list this would be up to 21 ESPs) and then an additional ESP on top of it?

Or does it mean I can merge the 21 ESPs (and update/rebuild it if necessary to integrate potential updates) and the additional Option-3-specific ESP for the communication with the outft system (= 2 ESP)

 

sorry if that should be obvious but it eludes me.... (I blame current lack of coffeine)

 

If my first interpretation is correct (up to 22EPS)... is it perhaps possible to make use of the description field of an ESP where xEdit / TES5Edit adds the information of the all the mods/ESPs that were merged? (I have no idea, I can merge but I can't script)

If it is possible, would it perhaps be possible to say: if you merge clothing modes, make sure the merged mod is Always called the same: CD_MergedOutfis.esp (or whatever the name). That way your scripts/ESP addon would know exactly which ESP to check and, checking the list of mods merged to the ESP would know what to expect of the content....

The idea came from the TES5Merged.esp that is recognized automatically by LOOT/WryeBash.

(this idea is probably utter BS but it could be a good compromise to keep the ESP count = 2)

[Veladarius]

 

The advantage of both systems is that there would not be a need for the player to merge any mods. Option 1 is essentially a merged mod that has its own outfit and inventory system in it as well as the armor/clothing data from the original esp's (but not the meshes or textures). It would free up esp's as the ones from the mods it includes would not be needed but the handling of what is actually installed is not very accurate. Option 2 just requires the original mod be installed and its esp active so merging those mods can't be done. It will be more accurate in what you have installed since it will detect the esp's and let you know what is available.

 

I am looking at a 3rd Option which is a bit of a hybrid of the two. Essentially it is Option 2 but an addon plugin similar to Option 1 can be made for it. The plugin would nearly be the same system as option 1 but instead of reporting directly to the MCM menu it would report to the outfit handling system. It could report what is in it and allow any mods you don't have to not be activated in the system. I am kind of leaning towards this since it will have the benefits of both.

 

Hi Veladarius,

I voted to Option 1 as I am already fighting constantly keeping my ESP list below 254 and I have already merged tons of mods, it's getting harder and harder to add stuff...

 

With that in mind:

If I am reading Option 3 correctly for me as a user it would mean that I have to keep all ESPs of each clothing mod (based on the current CD addons list this would be up to 21 ESPs) and then an additional ESP on top of it?

Or does it mean I can merge the 21 ESPs (and update/rebuild it if necessary to integrate potential updates) and the additional Option-3-specific ESP for the communication with the outft system (= 2 ESP)

 

sorry if that should be obvious but it eludes me.... (I blame current lack of coffeine)

 

If my first interpretation is correct (up to 22EPS)... is it perhaps possible to make use of the description field of an ESP where xEdit / TES5Edit adds the information of the all the mods/ESPs that were merged? (I have no idea, I can merge but I can't script)

If it is possible, would it perhaps be possible to say: if you merge clothing modes, make sure the merged mod is Always called the same: CD_MergedOutfis.esp (or whatever the name). That way your scripts/ESP addon would know exactly which ESP to check and, checking the list of mods merged to the ESP would know what to expect of the content....

The idea came from the TES5Merged.esp that is recognized automatically by LOOT/WryeBash.

(this idea is probably utter BS but it could be a good compromise to keep the ESP count = 2)

 

 

Option 1 would only require the new esp and not the rest of the esp's from the mods in it. Those mods would have to be installed so it can make use of the meshes and textures but the esp's can be disabled. It would only require the 1 extra esp to cover all the mods (2 total).

 

Unfortunately the new esp is more than just a merging of the different esp's. The new esp would put the various items into the proper lists so they can be used in outfits and be sold as well as have scripting to interface with the MCM menu to be able to disable mods you don't actually have installed, you could not just merge whatever mods you wanted to and replace the plugin with it. The scripts used in Option 2 look for a specific esp then the specific ID's of the items it will use and place them in the appropriate list.

 

Option 3 would use both systems at once. The esp plugin from option 1 would be used for most of the mods CD would use. The smaller script plugins from option 2 for individual mods would be used for lesser used mods or new mods until the esp plugin would be updated and have them merged into it. Overall it would allow you to choose which method you want to use as I would make script plugins for the mods included in the esp plugin for those that only use 1 or 2 of those mods.

[JDough]

 

 

The advantage of both systems is that there would not be a need for the player to merge any mods. Option 1 is essentially a merged mod that has its own outfit and inventory system in it as well as the armor/clothing data from the original esp's (but not the meshes or textures). It would free up esp's as the ones from the mods it includes would not be needed but the handling of what is actually installed is not very accurate. Option 2 just requires the original mod be installed and its esp active so merging those mods can't be done. It will be more accurate in what you have installed since it will detect the esp's and let you know what is available.

 

I am looking at a 3rd Option which is a bit of a hybrid of the two. Essentially it is Option 2 but an addon plugin similar to Option 1 can be made for it. The plugin would nearly be the same system as option 1 but instead of reporting directly to the MCM menu it would report to the outfit handling system. It could report what is in it and allow any mods you don't have to not be activated in the system. I am kind of leaning towards this since it will have the benefits of both.

 

Hi Veladarius,

I voted to Option 1 as I am already fighting constantly keeping my ESP list below 254 and I have already merged tons of mods, it's getting harder and harder to add stuff...

 

With that in mind:

If I am reading Option 3 correctly for me as a user it would mean that I have to keep all ESPs of each clothing mod (based on the current CD addons list this would be up to 21 ESPs) and then an additional ESP on top of it?

Or does it mean I can merge the 21 ESPs (and update/rebuild it if necessary to integrate potential updates) and the additional Option-3-specific ESP for the communication with the outft system (= 2 ESP)

 

sorry if that should be obvious but it eludes me.... (I blame current lack of coffeine)

 

If my first interpretation is correct (up to 22EPS)... is it perhaps possible to make use of the description field of an ESP where xEdit / TES5Edit adds the information of the all the mods/ESPs that were merged? (I have no idea, I can merge but I can't script)

If it is possible, would it perhaps be possible to say: if you merge clothing modes, make sure the merged mod is Always called the same: CD_MergedOutfis.esp (or whatever the name). That way your scripts/ESP addon would know exactly which ESP to check and, checking the list of mods merged to the ESP would know what to expect of the content....

The idea came from the TES5Merged.esp that is recognized automatically by LOOT/WryeBash.

(this idea is probably utter BS but it could be a good compromise to keep the ESP count = 2)

 

 

Option 1 would only require the new esp and not the rest of the esp's from the mods in it. Those mods would have to be installed so it can make use of the meshes and textures but the esp's can be disabled. It would only require the 1 extra esp to cover all the mods (2 total).

 

Unfortunately the new esp is more than just a merging of the different esp's. The new esp would put the various items into the proper lists so they can be used in outfits and be sold as well as have scripting to interface with the MCM menu to be able to disable mods you don't actually have installed, you could not just merge whatever mods you wanted to and replace the plugin with it. The scripts used in Option 2 look for a specific esp then the specific ID's of the items it will use and place them in the appropriate list.

 

Option 3 would use both systems at once. The esp plugin from option 1 would be used for most of the mods CD would use. The smaller script plugins from option 2 for individual mods would be used for lesser used mods or new mods until the esp plugin would be updated and have them merged into it. Overall it would allow you to choose which method you want to use as I would make script plugins for the mods included in the esp plugin for those that only use 1 or 2 of those mods.

 

 

ah, thanks for the clarification. Neat. Option 3 sounds like a good solution then (at least from an enduser perspective )

cheers

 

 

[galgat]

I would think number 1. to be most popular, as it would or could save a lot of ESP room.

 

I would merge a lot of my Clothing mods, but I was always afraid that another Mod would need to call them, and if the ESP was not active the mod would not find them.

[DonQuiWho]

I was wondering if you could have some sort of mod, with an MCM that shows all the mods that are installed in anyone's game which have appropriate resources to add to the 'shopping experience', Then people could choose which items they want to be able to buy, or which to leave out

 

The sort of thing I have in mind would function something like ....

 

http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/64905/?

 

....insofar as that can pick up every item in the game from each esp loaded, and what your mod would need to do is select the items/game assets that were 'sellable' and show them in vendor lists

 

So it doesn't then matter if anyone wants to load 10 items in their 10 original mod esps, or if you have merged them into one single merged esp.  The MCM would just show options to include the items in the 10 esps, or those from the one

 

Getting permissions from other mod authors would also be unnecessary

 

It would mean that the player would need to do some initial selection set up to get their desired mix, and if anyone has merged dozens of items into one merged mod (as I have done ), those mods assets would all get added into what is available at the shop, but that's up to each player to sort out as they want.  It would probably make everything buyable, as well as craftable, too - in fact it might make some items buyable that aren't craftable. 

 

Up to everyone then to set up the game as they wanted...

 

Not sure exactly how 'doable' that is, but if the additem mod's menu can work from within one's game inventory, I don't think it should be impossible?

 

That any help at all? 

[Veladarius]

I was wondering if you could have some sort of mod, with an MCM that shows all the mods that are installed in anyone's game which have appropriate resources to add to the 'shopping experience', Then people could choose which items they want to be able to buy, or which to leave out

 

The sort of thing I have in mind would function something like ....

 

http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/64905/?

 

....insofar as that can pick up every item in the game from each esp loaded, and what your mod would need to do is select the items/game assets that were 'sellable' and show them in vendor lists

 

So it doesn't then matter if anyone wants to load 10 items in their 10 original mod esps, or if you have merged them into one single merged esp.  The MCM would just show options to include the items in the 10 esps, or those from the one

 

Getting permissions from other mod authors would also be unnecessary

 

It would mean that the player would need to do some initial selection set up to get their desired mix, and if anyone has merged dozens of items into one merged mod (as I have done ), those mods assets would all get added into what is available at the shop, but that's up to each player to sort out as they want.  It would probably make everything buyable, as well as craftable, too - in fact it might make some items buyable that aren't craftable. 

 

Up to everyone then to set up the game as they wanted...

 

Not sure exactly how 'doable' that is, but if the additem mod's menu can work from within one's game inventory, I don't think it should be impossible?

 

That any help at all? 

 

One of the main functions of this is outfit variations for the npc's and this would distribute the items among various lists used for them (some have nearly 20 lists). I don't have a way to automatically distribute items from an unknown mod and I doubt anyone wants to spend who knows how much time setting up them manually at the start of a game.