Ok Beth.. it's April...

[Guest Mogie56]

Where does one get a short silk leash? and how do you define linear storytelling? from everything posted in this thread I was under the impression this game didn't have enough of a story to even be considered linear. So it doesn't have a story you like hmm do any games? everyone tries to compare this game to previous games or even games made by other dev's Why? if those stories were so grand then why bother with this one? oh right the modders will make it all better. good luck with that one.

[Zor2k13]

The point is that beth could tell a good story if they wanted to they just don't want to I think anyway.

 

Maybe it has something to do with costs such as garrus and belethor voicing everything or maybe it has something to do with a dumb idea from marketing who knows. More likely it is all this crap going on with consoles. The only thing out there now is m$ and sony, nintendo doesn't even compete in the same age group. They all want that $60 and more from young people with consoles and all the cell phone crap going on to make money from micro transactions etc.

 

The only thing that can really save us as gaming enthusiasts is a total meltdown of the console market and cell phone market. Some new harsh regulations roll in with the next idiot in chief and get passed on to euroland too so all they as corps have left is us the "computer users" lol. There is too much bribe money and corp connections to govts for that to happen though.

 

They will make what they want to make not what we want them to make, it will always be that way but how bad/good will it get? If beth locks down the next CK to their site or some service they are done for in the eyes of pc players but console users won't complain.

[Anbeegod]

The point is that beth could tell a good story if they wanted to they just don't want to I think anyway.

 

Maybe it has something to do with costs such as garrus and belethor voicing everything or maybe it has something to do with a dumb idea from marketing who knows. More likely it is all this crap going on with consoles. The only thing out there now is m$ and sony, nintendo doesn't even compete in the same age group. They all want that $60 and more from young people with consoles and all the cell phone crap going on to make money from micro transactions etc.

 

The only thing that can really save us as gaming enthusiasts is a total meltdown of the console market and cell phone market. Some new harsh regulations roll in with the next idiot in chief and get passed on to euroland too so all they as corps have left is us the "computer users" lol. There is too much bribe money and corp connections to govts for that to happen though.

 

They will make what they want to make not what we want them to make, it will always be that way but how bad/good will it get? If beth locks down the next CK to their site or some service they are done for in the eyes of pc players but console users won't complain.

 

 

That's basically unrealistic. Surely you know console players contribute the most money to game corps, and getting pirate version of games from the internet on your computer is easier than naming one absurd thing Donald Trump has said.

 

Someday, console will fall, but it will be due to the rise of VR. PC will never dominate the game market, so PC gamers' voice will never be the loudest to the game corps.

[Zor2k13]

I can only hope that consoles will fail but most likely they won't because of kids. Thats right kids need things to do so their parents can do anything at all while at home including take a crap. So consoles will have a place to some extent which is probably why nintendo still exists but consoles targeting young people age 16 to 25 have to go down for some reason or another. If the economy continues to be shit for the next five to ten years then hell yeah those consoles are going down because less money to buy them and no time to play them due to increased part time working hours just to pay the same bills that less hours paid each year before. Also tv is about as dead as a dead horse can get I don't see tv surviving too much longer even sports can't keep it alive for much longer. You need a big screen to play a console on but if thats all it is good for then the market will get worse for tv screens and that will drag down consoles too. I own a tv but I only turn it on to watch some stuff I have on a file player thing I have hooked up to an external drive once a year. I get the news from the net and the weather from the net, cell phones spam that shit all the time too. There really is no reason to own a tv unless you just love to see your fav sports team lose all the time. Seems like these days the sports teams are always losing a lot no matter where they are from.

 

All this stuff happening makes me think these companies are desperate not dumb because they have financial advisors that can see shit coming years from now that we never hear about etc. The computer that most people in the world today own is a dam cell phone so they have to be planning to move on to those pastures someday and just leave us all behind.

[soulruyu]

whelp the creation kit is open to the public now and its literally skyrim's not impressed

[Guest Mogie56]

Todd Howard has been trying to get ES onto consoles since Morrowind, I'm not so sure it's dumbing down as it is trying to get this engine onto a console. Microsoft has the money and know how as does Sony to make it happen which it is happening. Hopefully once it is there then it will become a thing of the past like most other things and focus can be put back where it belongs. I think the biggest focus has been just that, getting it on Console not so much a storyline that everyone would like. I personally have no problem with the direction it went but there is always room for improvement. the multi-ending style could have been done much better but lets not forget it's there first time. "maybe" a bit too ambitious. If you listen to what is said in the interviews it's always been "if we go this way what do we have to cut", "can we do this and not cut". a bit irksome to say the least but understandable from an engine standpoint. I don't know that it is from the developmental side or from the Corporate side "Do what you can with what you have" as if they think it's enough. or as to not cause waves and loose ones job "Oh sure we can do this no problem". it happens more times then not.

There is much more to the CK then what Skyrim's has but the look is still pretty much the same so it shouldn't be too difficult to pick up. more windows open for material, layers etc.

only thing that actually pisses me off is why the fuck do they always have to change the bloody body pose. it's not like they added anything to it that would require a change, it just adds more freaking mesh work but thank god it only has one clothing/armor mesh to manipulate this time around. But when they take something off the table they put something more in it's place Frak.

[Guest]

Hello guys.

 

The CK is finally out. Some problems on the log-in but it is out.

Please stop blaming Beth and start do some modding (I think I will not sleep this night just to find all it is new/changed in CK64 compared to CK)

((Yes Skyrim CK and FO4 CK have the same name and same icon, and they are 90% the same tool.))

 

Happy modding!

[pipdude]

 

 

To each his own then.

 

My mod would take place in the old world where everything isn't screwed up by radiation and mutants yet. The player would stop the apocalypse before it begins by working with their spouse, or go with an entirely different way and bring the literal doom upon the human species (when the vaults weren't even ready to accept residents yet, it will be the darkest and grimmest ending in Fallout history besides the Fallout 1 Super Mutant ending).

 

Hell, I'd even make an option which you can roleplay as another person other than the daddy/mommy who lost their child. I'm not going to hardcode so much thing in the story as the vanilla MQ did.

 

However, I'll only start the mod's development process after I finish my Skyrim mod. And, I need to learn advanced CK handling before I can make anything solid besides the story.

 

 

Given a storyline approach, they are kind of obligated to narrow beginning choices in order to create a pay-off that the player can build up to at the end.

 

My feeling is that storyline endings are the problem. They come with so many requirements and its just not practical to do too many of them (well).

 

I would like to see a more dynamic game goal. Similar to how Civilization has multiple ways of winning. But, a lot of the pay-off is more built into how you perform on your way to one of those victories. The way both NV and FO4 are, even if you are interested in seeing different endings, after the first play-through, many of the quests on your way to that ending just become busy-work. There could be a million different endings and that would remain true. It needs some way of constantly measuring performance along the way so that even reaching the same ending feels like a different game. Not totally sure what form that takes.

 

 

Your role-playing options are a little constrained in F4. I mean you can play an excellent selection of early-thirties, recently bereaved, pre-war, lady lawyers in search of their abducted infant sons, but outside of that your role-playing involvement is pretty much limited to "do I spend this perk point on Perception or Agility?" and "Which do I do first: rescue the kidnapped settler from the Supermutants, or wipe out the feral ghouls that have just moved into the area on the extreme far side of the map". I'm not a huge fan of NV, but as the Courier you had rather more scope to use your imagination.

 

I agree there isn't a whole lot to choose between the main quests in one sense, but NV scores because I can at least understand the objectives of the factions. You don't need a page and a half of complex psychological analysis before Caesar's motivations make sense, and House never decided the only way to safeguard and protect a unique technology was by nuking it into oblivion.

 

 

Hm. I totally get the limitations of the format and agree with that. I just don't think they really changed the format much from NV. People talk about the difference as if FO4 is some radical, out-of-the-blue departure.

[DocClox]

Todd Howard has been trying to get ES onto consoles since Morrowind, I'm not so sure it's dumbing down as it is trying to get this engine onto a console. Microsoft has the money and know how as does Sony to make it happen which it is happening.

 

I see what you're saying, it's just that ...

 

Look at it this way: I like my coffee with caffeine. Now imagine that a major national retailer decided that it was only going to stock decaf. It's possible that my favorite brand of coffee might go decaf-only in order to sell product through those outlets. In such a scenario I could understand that there was a business case for doing that ... but they'd still be selling me decaf where I wanted caffeinated, and I'd still be unhappy with the product.

 

Similarly, I can believe that Beth have done the research before designing the game, and that the excessive hand-holding and spoon-feeding that's crept into their recent games is aimed at accessing that wider audience. But that still doesn't give me the sort of experience that I look for in a Bethesda game. The business case may be there, but that doesn't make their metaphorical coffee any more caffeinated.

 

Hm. I totally get the limitations of the format and agree with that. I just don't think they really changed the format much from NV. People talk about the difference as if FO4 is some radical, out-of-the-blue departure.

Yeah, I'm not sure why NV gets placed on such a pedestal sometimes either. Granted it did a lot of things very well, some better than Bethesda did, but it had its flaws too.

 

I do think NV handled the three way conflict better. I mean you can look at NV as a clash between House as Free Market Capitalism Incarnate against the All Controlling Totalitarian State embodied by Caesar, with the NCR as Modern America caught between the two extremes. There's a fundamental conflict of ideologies there. There doesn't seem to be any similar conceptual integrity behind the conflict in F4. It seems little more than re-badged versions of the Fighters' Mages' and Thieves' guild, fighting because the fans liked it when there was a three-way war in New Vegas

[protocolk]

I dont hate fallout 4, its a fun game but... Holy fuck it sucks as an fallout game! why do i need to be the nice family person? were are the evil/neutral/egoistical choices? why do I need to look for shaun? he would probably be dead!

The game main flaw is the Main Quest and linear choices, luckly with the GECK release now we can start to fix it. We need:

 

1) alternate start/questline mod.

2) questlines mods

3) ability to make your own faction or reform the ones you lead.

 

people here on LL could ban togeter and fix this problems, I understand people are upset, FO4 was a huge disapointment, but shoyldnt we try to fix it instead of complaining and doing nothing?

 

I was thinkig about using GECK to make an alternate MQ but I will need help with the coding part so... can anyone help me? ideas would also be great.

[Anbeegod]

I dont hate fallout 4, its a fun game but... Holy fuck it sucks as an fallout game! why do i need to be the nice family person? were are the evil/neutral/egoistical choices? why do I need to look for shaun? he would probably be dead!

The game main flaw is the Main Quest and linear choices, luckly with the GECK release now we can start to fix it. We need:

 

1) alternate start/questline mod.

2) questlines mods

3) ability to make your own faction or reform the ones you lead.

 

people here on LL could ban togeter and fix this problems, I understand people are upset, FO4 was a huge disapointment, but shoyldnt we try to fix it instead of complaining and doing nothing?

 

I was thinkig about using GECK to make an alternate MQ but I will need help with the coding part so... can anyone help me? ideas would also be great.

 

 

Fallout 4 is a good game, silly RPG, bad Fallout.

 

Well, given the ability I'd definitely work on making a standalone quest line independent from the original story, so I'm going to learn more about CK very soon. For now I know how to handle dialogues properly, but scripting and world shaping remain obstacles to me.

 

I have no desire replacing the original story. The cost-effectiveness is too low, it's more efficient and more attractive to make an entirely new one.

[xGHoSTx]

Well its in open beta now all you need is a bethesda.net account and the Launcher

 

[Zor2k13]

Did anyone watch that video going around from beth about the new CK? Now we get to see the faces of some of these people and try to figure out why they are so annoying. They really poured on the BS in that video but from what it looks like they want to do, they want to make it so dammed easy to install a mod on their side of things that it is as simple as choosing an icon from their site so even a cell phone user can install mods.

 

Anything that needs SKSE, Jcontainers and other extra curricular stuff might as well forget about using it on console.

 

Moogie said earlier they have been trying to get an ES game on console for a long time well they can now because the consoles are just bare bones AMD computers.

 

Todd howard looked really worried in that video I could see it very plainly.

[SharioKun]

Uh... no just no.

 

The time is spent waiting for beth to fix this crap so it is worth playing and then waiting for arthmoor and co to fix everything else to a point so others can really fix the broken stuff that most people don't like. The combat and gunplay are already good enough we just need a legitimate reason to wear power armor and kill things instead of sitting through all that radiant crap and bad story.

 

For example imagine a mod that stops garvey from sending you to settlements once you have done them all? the mod would also have the option of having the settlement build itself as long as you place enough materials in the workshop after securing it. The radiant garvey shit could be toned down so you don't ever go back there unless you have to, there is no need to give a dam about those sims and their problems. Once you get a settlement going it could expand into a small city with their own guards and some services. Then some new npcs with names could spring up there.

 

The radiant stuff could be limited to killing ferals and mutants and raiders blah blah and maybe someone will fix the dam settlers so they will STAY at their posts during an attack instead of fleeing the security of the settlement walls to stand directly in front of an enemy while fighting it:-(

 

Also maybe someone can fix the pathetic excuse for a main story in this game and change it enough so you don't have to kill your own son but simply be there when he dies and disband or redirect the institute so it doesn't screw up the commonwealth anymore. Maybe even find and free all or some of the people that were replaced by the synths. Maybe they weren't disposed of afterall but sold into slavery or left to rot at some institute prison.

 

Most people want to just get in some power armor and go around killing things and join the BoS to wipe out monsters etc. they don't want to put up with a bunch of crappy plot twists and killing off factions just because. People should be able to enjoy a game and be entertained by it not be annoyed and pissed off by it. Anyone wanting to be pissed off by a game just has to play dark souls games. Who wants to be angered by something that is supposed to be entertainment anyway? Nobody liked shamalan movies either.

 

I hope that modders fix the dam beginning of the game, get rid of the scene where the spouse is shot in the head while holding a baby because that shit is way too extreme. We could see the pc watching it on a security monitor after waking up and the audio could play through the monitor speakers we could watch the expression on their face instead of having to sit through that shit every single time we start a new game.

 

I really wish they would have made legitimate alternate starts for this game like the player would start from a different vault with a different background and the main story stuff would be disabled to an extent. You would still end up going through the institute stuff but more as a hand picked merc or contracted help offer instead of the parent of the leader. The player could hear that the leader died but not see it as if the main character was in the room with him and the player could not interfere etc. so like side stepping certain parts to maintain that alternate start plot. We don't need to play the silver shroud every time, we don't need to be the leader of every faction every time etc. for alternate starts. For the sex stuff there could be a start out as a slave thing. The player is almost never freed just bought and sold to various npcs around the commonwealth.

 

 

If I could think this shit up then they already have thought of it before finishing the game, why is it that modders ALWAYS have to fix their dam games? This is what we are angry about, what is at hand as you say is not good enough and it appears that was done on purpose.

 

 

EDIT

 

Some options to replace radiant crap

 

 

As a member of the brotherhood of steel you could be called on to participate in an ongoing firefight against supermutants or raiders attacking a city or settlement, since the BoS claims to be helping the commonwealth I say let them do it then. Fly that gunship mission against gunners or mutants etc not just as part of that one main quest objective.

 

As a member of the minutemen you could be called on to do the same thing or to escort a supply convoy or free slaves that were replaced by synths etc.

 

As a member of the railroad you could be called on to defend an operative and help them escape or rescue them from somewhere.

 

There are all kinds of things to mod in to replace the stale boring radiant shit that is super duper mart and some military post over and over again.

 

 

The only thing that can fix this rediculous hamster wheel of a game is the CK and modders with the time and skills to do it. That should not be the case for every game this company makes. If the next ES game turns out like this I will just ignore it for three or four years because there would be no point in sitting through the same broken thing over and over again. Also we don't know if arthmoor and co will be around long enough to fix every game they make in the near future.

 

Hmm.. i get where you are coming from #DIY

[SharioKun]

Did anyone watch that video going around from beth about the new CK? Now we get to see the faces of some of these people and try to figure out why they are so annoying. They really poured on the BS in that video but from what it looks like they want to do, they want to make it so dammed easy to install a mod on their side of things that it is as simple as choosing an icon from their site so even a cell phone user can install mods.

 

Anything that needs SKSE, Jcontainers and other extra curricular stuff might as well forget about using it on console.

 

Moogie said earlier they have been trying to get an ES game on console for a long time well they can now because the consoles are just bare bones AMD computers.

 

Todd howard looked really worried in that video I could see it very plainly.

 

I know right dude Todd howard really looked worried...

 

Kappa

[Zor2k13]

It is called details and you should try paying attention to them like the little things in the expressions on his face #DIYourselfToo

[Ernest Lemmingway]

Anything that needs SKSE, Jcontainers and other extra curricular stuff might as well forget about using it on console.

 

 

That's what some of us suspected from the start. I already know some console players who are already pissed that their limited to whatever Bethesda.net is hosting. That and the fact they need to buy FO4 for the PC to use the CK (see below).

 

Todd howard looked really worried in that video I could see it very plainly.

 

 

They all looked a little funky. Howard kept gazing intensely at the camera without blinking; worried, haunted, emotionally exhausted. The others (save Paris) kept looking off to the side when they said certain things. I have Asperger's and even I felt like they didn't believe what they were really saying. Their body language didn't match up with what they were saying.

 

I love that short blip on how "mods are created on a computer." No one mentioned that you need FO4 for PC to also use the CK. It's just common sense to think that would be the case. But some console players I know are spitting nails about how they can't use their PS4/XBOX One copies with the CK. They expected some capability to network between their consoles and computers using Bethesda.net. It would have been funny if it wasn't so pathetic.

[Guest endgameaddiction]

If you need the pc version of the game, why the hell would you bother buying the console version? lol

 

In regards to that, this is telling me that CK has been nerfed to suite the needs of console gamers and mods. In other words, like the nerf of pc games to suit console systems, now the toolkit is nerfed? lol

 

Can you post links to this stuff. I don't have a bethesda.net account nor do I plan to create one. I'd like to read what's going on.

[Ernest Lemmingway]

If you need the pc version of the game, why the hell would you bother buying the console version? lol

My thoughts exactly. This is just one reason no other company has tried this before. Why even bother making console versions if making mods for a game will require the computer version? Why go through the hassle of making sure a mod can work with consoles if you don't need to do so to use it? Give it twelve to eighteen months. Moore's Law will be kicking consoles square in the groin as modders make things that require more resources than consoles can provide.

 

In regards to that, this is telling me that CK has been nerfed to suite the needs of console gamers and mods. In other words, like the nerf of pc games to suit console systems, now the toolkit is nerfed? lol

 

Can you post links to this stuff. I don't have a bethesda.net account nor do I plan to create one. I'd like to read what's going on.

Here's the page. It has the trailer. The CK hasn't been nerfed so far as I can tell, but that could change since this is still technically an open beta and not the final product. The page even says that, at this time, mods are not yet supported on consoles but they're "working on it."

[Zor2k13]

I think they expect the pc modders to just hit the ground running and chase the console money for mods carrot when the whole thing comes out of beta. What will be interesting to see is wether or not that happens. Even if the pc modders boycott for a while, eventually some modders will take the bait and others will follow. It will be slow but it will most likely happen so by the time the next ES game hits they already have a measurement of what the pc modders will do for them and how much they will make from this kind of setup for an ES game.

 

The next ES game is end game for them though, I mean how much more can TES go on? After the next ES game they might just try their hand at call of dookie clones who knows.

[Anbeegod]

 

 

The next ES game is end game for them though, I mean how much more can TES go on? After the next ES game they might just try their hand at call of dookie clones who knows.

 

 

If they want, they can always come up with new stuff. Hell, just make a random zealot who has secret affair with Meridia as the final boss and millions would still buy it.

[Ernest Lemmingway]

I think they expect the pc modders to just hit the ground running and chase the console money for mods carrot when the whole thing comes out of beta. What will be interesting to see is wether or not that happens. Even if the pc modders boycott for a while, eventually some modders will take the bait and others will follow. It will be slow but it will most likely happen so by the time the next ES game hits they already have a measurement of what the pc modders will do for them and how much they will make from this kind of setup for an ES game.

 

They can try, and I don't doubt they will, but they're also caught in a legal bind when it comes to charging anything. Only mods on their distribution platform would be legally subject to any pay-to-download scheme. Then there's the fact that the EULA of the CK states that end users can't make money off of anything they create with it but BGS can thanks to no clause stating they also can't. They wouldn't have to reimburse modders for a thing if they did charge for downloading.

 

All modders would need to do is stop allowing their work to be hosted on Bethesda.net to kill that plan. Console gamers wouldn't be able to access the majority of new mods and that would alienate them and thus Bethesda's target market. There are some underhanded things they could do to force modders to upload to Bethesda.net, but that would be economic suicide.

[Guest]

The only mods that might become paid is those crappy armors and etc... "mods".

No mod which needs another mod to function has a snowballs chance in hell in making it paid and if it does well the guy who made the framework will make it paid too repeat that enough times you end up paying 40 bucks for a dozen mods.

 

Now what if there are updates? what if there are changes? bugs? well who the hell wants to deal with that?

The slew of refund requests and eventual boycotts.

In less than a year Bethesda will kill modding forever for their games.

[Halstrom]

Ok Thread, its May......

[Guest]

Ok Thread, its May......

 

Not with that attitude!