Can gen 3 synths reproduce? (some major spoilers)

[CanadianBlueBeer]

Hmm...  could be that as in BSG the skinjob had to be 'in love' with the human, or no babies.

 

Those are the ones that thought of themselves as more human than cylon.

 

So extreme emotions turned on the reproduce switch, that they couldn't otherwise turn on.

 

With Shaun, they were working on 'extreme emotional stimuli' ... so if the Institute lives/lived, 4th gen probably would be able

to reproduce.  3rd gen.... iffy, but could be doable.  After all, why are some of the synths running away wanting freedom?

 

 

[Brvtality]

I'm going to say they can't have children as of Gen III, but could have children with further models. If you look

at the huge leap in sophistication from Gen I to Gen III it wouldn't be surprising if they eventually found a way.

It might even be interesting to create a mod that follows that vein of logic. The protagonist destroys the 

Institute, but not before a prototype Gen IV escapes. Codenamed Eve it is the first synth completely capable

of all biological abilities, even breeding. I can even see the mod taking sort of a Bladerunner plot as you 

try to save Eve from the BoS who get wind of the Gen IV and spare no expense to hunt it down. A synth

begging for your help in the rain with mascara running down her face.

[Jazzman]

As long as synth-3 replicants get churned out by robot machines there is no need for natural self-reproduction. And hybridization with humans is not on the Institute's agenda. As the one in charge I have ordered a shift from synth production to the production of high-tech weapons 'cause wars ain't won by the number of soldiers but by the quality of the weapons used. I know what I'm talking about, my Bronze-Age ancestors have lost the wars against a handful 'modern' invaders of the Spanish Brotherhood of Steel some 500 years ago...

[Ernest Lemmingway]

Realistically I could see the male gen 3s being able to impregnate a female human. As mentioned before the female reproductive system would be too complex to reproduce as it would require most of the organism in order to function, on the other hand the male reproductive system is very simple by comparison, basically all you'd need are hormones, a cock (and some way of inflating it), functioning balls, a functioning prostate gland, and a way to keep all of that stuff alive.

 

Actually a guy's reproductive system is as reliant on the organism being alive as a woman's. Look at urological texts for more. Simulating sexual capabilities artificially in both genders is the easy part; getting the reproductive systems to work is not. And erection is caused by blood swelling erectile tissue in the penis.

[Z0mBieP00Nani]

 

Realistically I could see the male gen 3s being able to impregnate a female human. As mentioned before the female reproductive system would be too complex to reproduce as it would require most of the organism in order to function, on the other hand the male reproductive system is very simple by comparison, basically all you'd need are hormones, a cock (and some way of inflating it), functioning balls, a functioning prostate gland, and a way to keep all of that stuff alive.

 

Actually a guy's reproductive system is as reliant on the organism being alive as a woman's. Look at urological texts for more. Simulating sexual capabilities artificially in both genders is the easy part; getting the reproductive systems to work is not. And erection is caused by blood swelling erectile tissue in the penis.

 

 

Blood swelling the penis is what I meant by inflating it. I saw somewhere that the male reproductive system was capable of functioning without the top half of the body as long as there was some other system in place to keep it alive, granted this was on the Discovery channel about 10 or so years ago.

 

Anyway, the blood part isn't the issue, assuming gen 3 synths are covered in real skin like the T-800 is in Terminator, there would already be some kind of circulatory system established, the cultured skin would need blood to keep it alive.

[Leocid2]

The institute did not want to reproduce Synths. They wanted to replace humans by Synths. If a Synths, reproduces, the child would be born was 100% human, and that was not his idea.

[Jazzman]

After reading up on the Institute I would have to say that the Synths would never be given the ability to reproduce even if it were possible. The Institute views Synths as slaves and nothing more, they would never give them that much free will to even perform the act. their loosing enough of them already. Their ideal is as misguided as the Robobrains are in The Mechanist The Robobrains want to kill humans to save them. The Institute wants to kill and replace humans with Synths and they both think they are saving humanity in some misguided but logical way. Hubris on both parts. (they both have human brains).

 

Again, why do folks fall to in-game propaganda? It's all Father's fault, huh? Sounds so familiar in these days. Actually, the Institute treats the synths of all generations much, much better than humans have ever treated their intelligent cousins in animal kingdom, killing the mothers in the wild to get access to their babies for human entertainment behind bars. And the very first bs I've heard from an outcast BoS patrol was that I'd be disgusting subhuman scum, no longer a citizen (as it still was the case in DC) that must step aside when the masters of the Bethesda universe march through the rubble like a plague to scavenge what's left of humanity.

[Jazzman]

I don't know what your going on about, not once did I mention "Father" nor did I mention in-game propaganda. what I was talking about happened long before Shaun/Father.

So do explain to all of us just how Synthetics have intercourse and reproduce, what internal organs do they have? or external for that matter. Just where is there reproductive system among all the wires and metal? if what you were talking about were true "Institutes treatment of synths" then the Railroad and Institute should have been working together all along and not been fighting with each other. I was answering the original question in my own opinion "Can Gen 3 synths reproduce" it's a bloody opinion not something for you to get all butthurt over. But oh well, you want to argue do it with someone else. I wont feed an argument, believe what you want I don't give a rats fanny.

I don't care about what you're trying say anymore. You have used BoS propaganda to forward your argument. And that's that.

[Benmc20]

 

 

Realistically I could see the male gen 3s being able to impregnate a female human. As mentioned before the female reproductive system would be too complex to reproduce as it would require most of the organism in order to function, on the other hand the male reproductive system is very simple by comparison, basically all you'd need are hormones, a cock (and some way of inflating it), functioning balls, a functioning prostate gland, and a way to keep all of that stuff alive.

 

Actually a guy's reproductive system is as reliant on the organism being alive as a woman's. Look at urological texts for more. Simulating sexual capabilities artificially in both genders is the easy part; getting the reproductive systems to work is not. And erection is caused by blood swelling erectile tissue in the penis.

 

 

Blood swelling the penis is what I meant by inflating it. I saw somewhere that the male reproductive system was capable of functioning without the top half of the body as long as there was some other system in place to keep it alive, granted this was on the Discovery channel about 10 or so years ago.

 

Anyway, the blood part isn't the issue, assuming gen 3 synths are covered in real skin like the T-800 is in Terminator, there would already be some kind of circulatory system established, the cultured skin would need blood to keep it alive.

 

If you examine proprely the process of ceation of gen3 synth, you can notice that they recreate all the human body, beginning by the bones, after internal organs, muscles, and skin to finish. So, why not reproductive system ?

[Ernest Lemmingway]

 

 

Blood swelling the penis is what I meant by inflating it. I saw somewhere that the male reproductive system was capable of functioning without the top half of the body as long as there was some other system in place to keep it alive, granted this was on the Discovery channel about 10 or so years ago.

 

Anyway, the blood part isn't the issue, assuming gen 3 synths are covered in real skin like the T-800 is in Terminator, there would already be some kind of circulatory system established, the cultured skin would need blood to keep it alive.

 

If you examine proprely the process of ceation of gen3 synth, you can notice that they recreate all the human body, beginning by the bones, after internal organs, muscles, and skin to finish. So, why not reproductive system ?

 

 

Good question. There's also the question of how the Institute gets the actual organic parts to grow. Without DNA cells are inert and have no blueprints of what to build. If they're just using genetic material from whomever the Synth is copying, then the Synth could reproduce using the same genetic code. It also explains, albeit not very well, why they wanted Shawn. Pre-war DNA wouldn't have the mutations caused by exposure to radiation or even the inbreeding of an enclosed compound like the Institute. Why not just siphon off a small bit of blood from the parents as well? Their DNA is just as clean.

 

And I didn't know that, Zombie. I'm imagining an ultra-feminist compound that cuts males in half once they peak sexually (17-19 yrs. old) and keeps the lower half alive in tubes for their genetic material. Oh, dear God!

[spoonsinger]

And I didn't know that, Zombie. I'm imagining an ultra-feminist compound that cuts males in half once they peak sexually (17-19 yrs. old) and keeps the lower half alive in tubes for their genetic material. Oh, dear God!

 

 

Lol!. for some reason that reminded me of Seksmisja :- (Might not play, but it's on Youtube).

 

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhwqRnZli8U

 

 

 

(Probably the best Polish film of the 80's - well in fact the only Polish film of the 80's I know about).

 

[DocClox]

Good question. There's also the question of how the Institute gets the actual organic parts to grow. Without DNA cells are inert and have no blueprints of what to build. If they're just using genetic material from whomever the Synth is copying, then the Synth could reproduce using the same genetic code.

Well, yeah. Structurally, they use a giant 3D printer to construct the Type 3s. Biochemically, they're human and that's what makes the cells function properly.

 

Where it all falls down is that synths are supposed to be completely undetectable. So if there were major omissions to synth physiology, like the absence of an uterus, for example, there are scanners in the commonwealth that could pick that up. If there's a structural difference, tests can be devised. The fact that they haven't suggests that all the bits are there, which makes me think that the reproductive systems are probably more disabled than non-viable, and can probably be turned back on again. They'll breed human beings rather than synths, but for our purposes at LL, that'll probably do.

 

Of course, then they go and complicate it with nonsense like the mystical synth component that is undetectable to any scan, even those of the BoS medical bay, but then become screaming obvious on the moment of death. Or the magical properties of FEV virus that apparently exempt synths from the need to rest, eat or excrete (in stark contrast to all other known biological systems) and yet still leave no tell-tale signature behind on synth biology.

 

Sometimes I really do think they cared more about fueling pointless my-faction-is-better-than-your-faction forum wars than they did about creating a consistent and coherent game world. Sometimes I could just weep.

 

 

It also explains, albeit not very well, why they wanted Shawn. Pre-war DNA wouldn't have the mutations caused by exposure to radiation or even the inbreeding of an enclosed compound like the Institute. Why not just siphon off a small bit of blood from the parents as well? Their DNA is just as clean.

Hell, why not take cell scrapings from every corpsicle in the joint and leave them all in cold storage, just in case? I'm told this because the Institute are cold, clinical bad-asses who do this because they can because the don't care. Just not quite such cold, clinical bad-asses that they won't go dewey eyed over widdle babby shawnie-wawnie and raise and educate him as one of their own. As opposed to sticking the little brat in a blender and storing the resulting baby smoothie in a freezer until they needed more DNA.

 

Ah, thinking about the plot of this turkey makes me crazy.

 

And I didn't know that, Zombie. I'm imagining an ultra-feminist compound that cuts males in half once they peak sexually (17-19 yrs. old) and keeps the lower half alive in tubes for their genetic material. Oh, dear God!

Or there's always the Frank Herbert book, Hellsrom's Hive. There (if memory serves) unruly females were turned into "reproductive stumps". Basically they amputated all four limbs and the head, wired the torso into a life support system and kept it pregnant. The Hive needed to expand, apparently...

[Halstrom]

Possibly Kellog was keeping his source of Pre-War DNA secret from the Institute for additional pay later or leverage.

No matter what their goals my thoughts are some branch of the institute couldn't resist just screwing around to see what's possible regardless.

They could try making male Synths produce Synth offspring by impregnating human females (preferably pre-war ones or vault dwellers)

They could equip some female synths to be advanced high speed incubators requiring human male input (again cleaner the better)

They could be trying Synth + Synth with any sort of failures and mutations.

[Z0mBieP00Nani]

 

 

 

 

 
Blood swelling the penis is what I meant by inflating it. I saw somewhere that the male reproductive system was capable of functioning without the top half of the body as long as there was some other system in place to keep it alive, granted this was on the Discovery channel about 10 or so years ago.
 
Anyway, the blood part isn't the issue, assuming gen 3 synths are covered in real skin like the T-800 is in Terminator, there would already be some kind of circulatory system established, the cultured skin would need blood to keep it alive.

 

If you examine proprely the process of ceation of gen3 synth, you can notice that they recreate all the human body, beginning by the bones, after internal organs, muscles, and skin to finish. So, why not reproductive system ?

 

 

Good question. There's also the question of how the Institute gets the actual organic parts to grow. Without DNA cells are inert and have no blueprints of what to build. If they're just using genetic material from whomever the Synth is copying, then the Synth could reproduce using the same genetic code. It also explains, albeit not very well, why they wanted Shawn. Pre-war DNA wouldn't have the mutations caused by exposure to radiation or even the inbreeding of an enclosed compound like the Institute. Why not just siphon off a small bit of blood from the parents as well? Their DNA is just as clean.

 

And I didn't know that, Zombie. I'm imagining an ultra-feminist compound that cuts males in half once they peak sexually (17-19 yrs. old) and keeps the lower half alive in tubes for their genetic material. Oh, dear God!

 

 

 

Lol, yeah, but then they'd get bored of sex really fast, they'd have no "motion" in their "ocean".

 

 

 

Now that you mention it, it makes no sense for Kellogg to make the comment in the beginning of the game "At least we have a back up" if all the Institute needed was untainted pre-war DNA. They had a whole vault full of frozen cadavers to choose from.. technically they didn't even NEED a living person to take it from.. *gasp* PLOT HOLE SPOTTED!

 

[Jazzman]

As long as Father's synth-3 get industrially produced as adults (!) instead of born by a synth mother, their self-reproducibility is out of the question - they are infertile by concept. Don't even think about the opposite as lore-friendly. Question is, would such a lack make them distinguishable from humans that live for centuries in a highly radioactive environment that doesn't even show green leaves everywhere on the trees as the heralds of returning life? Answer - it wouldn't 'cause most men in the Wasteland are infertile as well. Children are rare and precious in the Wasteland. Radioactivity, however, is the true nemesis of male fertility. Males are by nature the by far weaker gender when it comes to environmental shifts that have a negative impact on human fertility. That goes for any mammal in animal kingdom and thus isn't something to whine about. Scanners are useless here, sperm tests ain't. But what would they prove? Just that the male human probe in the average would show the same result as of that of any male synth-3 - useless nuka cola quantum cum that glows in the dark. What we see in the Fallout series is a silent genocide of mankind caused by radioactivity that gets stretched as long as Bethesda believes in the market for such a dystopian product. Already after the first use of mere tactical nukes on the battlefield somewhere that market would be dead for caught up by reality. Don't let that happen to us.

End of story  

[DocClox]

As long as Father's synth-3 get industrially produced as adults (!) instead of born by a synth mother, their self-reproducibility is out of the question - they are infertile. Don't even think about the opposite as lore-friendly.

 

I don't think that follows. If they can construct an organism with working adrenal glands, there's no logical reason they can't have working testes, orvaries or uterus,

 

End of story

Sez you

[Jazzman]

 

As long as Father's synth-3 get industrially produced as adults (!) instead of born by a synth mother, their self-reproducibility is out of the question - they are infertile. Don't even think about the opposite as lore-friendly.

 

I don't think that follows. If they can construct an organism with working adrenal glands, there's no logical reason they can't have working testes, orvaries or uterus,

 

End of story

Sez you

 

 

Wrong thought. Infertility doesn't mean that organs are missing. And there's absolutely no logical reason to produce fertile synths that could give birth to synths that are operable first after some 20 years when a single word by the protagonist could double, triple, quadruple the production of adult ready-to-act synths on the fly...

 

Indeed, so say we all

[DocClox]

Wrong thought. Infertility doesn't mean that organs are missing.

Right. So you agree that they're structurally human? In which case any infertility has to either be genetic where no viable fetus can be formed, or else some fault inf the fallopian tubes or male equivalent.

 

The first case seems unlikely if the DNA is used to form viable cells, and while it would stop synth/synth reproduction it wouldn't necessarily preclude a female carrying a child to term, or possibly being impregnated by a normal human. The second case, which seems far more likely is probably reversible with surgery.

 

And there's absolutely no logical reason to produce fertile synths that could give birth to synths

Right. The institute wouldn't want them to reproduce by themselves. It doesn't imply the infertility cannot be reversed.

 

Indeed, so say we all

Sez you

[Jazzman]

 

Wrong thought. Infertility doesn't mean that organs are missing.

Right. So you agree that they're structurally human? In which case any infertility has to either be genetic where no viable fetus can be formed, or else some fault inf the fallopian tubes or male equivalent.

 

The first case seems unlikely if the DNA is used to form viable cells, and while it would stop synth/synth reproduction it wouldn't necessarily preclude a female carrying a child to term, or possibly being impregnated by a normal human. The second case, which seems far more likely is probably reversible with surgery.

 

And there's absolutely no logical reason to produce fertile synths that could give birth to synths

Right. The institute wouldn't want them to reproduce by themselves. It doesn't imply the infertility cannot be reversed.

 

Indeed, so say we all

Sez you

 

Of course they are a new, artificially created human sub-species for their genome is based on that of 'Father', the protagonist's son, a pre-war specimen. The humans that are still alive in the 3rd century after the fallout are post-war mutants. Now, the pre-war type is far more vulnerable to constantly high radiation in the environment than the post-war type, his to be expected level of infertility in case of a boy after puberty even higher, much higher. So what was the kidnapping of Shaun good for? It's good for the DNA of a small society that lives outside of the radioactive environment hostile to life - the Institute which is, according to our sources, made of post-war mutants with heavily reduced fertility. Father had the unmodified genome they urgently needed to avoid the silent genocide caused by male infertility. The scientists probably didn't need more than tissue samples to sequence baby Shaun's genome to start a repair program. Back to the synth-3 that call Shaun 'Father' by the above reason alone. If we assume that, despite the lore fact that they are resistant to radiation, they are infertile, we should look for more than just practical production means. Fertile synths are the seed of a possible, violent synth revolution, the feared unexpected - Jurassic Park occurs to me, a risk I'd not run just for sexual fun, and I'm in charge there. That is why I take both synth-3 genders for the time being as artificially infertile, what modders make of it later is another matter altogether. The genetic relation between fertile synths and fertile humans should be at least as close as that between the not so many ancient humans that once have left Africa to fuck with the Neanderthals (and everybody else that came along on two legs and didn't run away fast enuff), simply to avoid inbreeding and extinction. That'd mean that cross-breeding is possible with to be expected infertile male offspring and fertile female offspring on both sides according to Haldane's Law - a pure mother line thing that'd be, like it or not.

 

And so say we all

[DocClox]

Of course they are a new, artificially created human sub-species for their genome is based on that of 'Father', the protagonist's son, a pre-war specimen.

Which magically doesn't show up on DNA testing because they're the identical to normal humans while also being completely different? See, this is my problem with the F4 story in a nutshell: at every turn the writers want to have their cake and eat it at the same time.

 

But yeah, by all means argue for the stupidity and inconsistency of the story - I won't dispute that. On the other hand, this being LL I assume we have an interest in finding a justification for synth fertility, in one direction or another. I'm just proposing a plausible framework.

 

That'd mean that cross-breeding is possible with to be expected infertile male offspring and fertile female offspring on both sides - a pure mother line thing that'd be, like it or not.

Except if they were a new species, you could tell from the DNA. The BoS got a great long list of synth genomes from the SS after the infiltration of the institute, but the only thing they could tell from that was that one of them matched Danse. I think if they'd all been neanderthal DNA (or of equivalent divergence), the BoS would probably have noticed.

 

Not convinced, sorry.

 

And so say we all

And yet this discussion exists.

[Jazzman]

 

Of course they are a new, artificially created human sub-species for their genome is based on that of 'Father', the protagonist's son, a pre-war specimen.

Which magically doesn't show up on DNA testing because they're the identical to normal humans while also being completely different? See, this is my problem with the F4 story in a nutshell: at every turn the writers want to have their cake and eat it at the same time.

 

But yeah, by all means argue for the stupidity and inconsistency of the story - I won't dispute that. On the other hand, this being LL I assume we have an interest in finding a justification for synth fertility, in one direction or another. I'm just proposing a plausible framework.

 

That'd mean that cross-breeding is possible with to be expected infertile male offspring and fertile female offspring on both sides - a pure mother line thing that'd be, like it or not.

Except if they were a new species, you could tell from the DNA. The BoS got a great long list of synth genomes from the SS after the infiltration of the institute, but the only thing they could tell from that was that one of them matched Danse. I think if they'd all been neanderthal DNA (or of equivalent divergence), the BoS would probably have noticed.

 

Not convinced, sorry.

 

And so say we all

And yet this discussion exists.

 

What the Outcasts aka 'BoS in the Commonwealth' that can't even grow their own food got from the protagonist was not perhaps a many thousand miles long genome list of multiple specimens (necessary to distinguish sub-species acc. to their percentage aberration from each other) or they'd be still busy with reading and understanding it due to the lack of a super computer and the specific technology needed, but the simple DNA results necessary to compare samples, to prove/disprove a match in any backroom laboratory, the production code and, maybe, the code name used on the surface as well. Everything else is an arrow in the own knee, something that just would hurt our intelligence.

 

From the genetic point of view, synth-3 are artificially recreated pre-war humans adapted to the radioactive environment and equipped with a kill switch. For both synth-3 and the protagonist goes, expect much fun but not necessarily a fertile baby. Haldane's law again...

So, gotta take care of my own little baby boy over here. He deserves mom's attention, always.

[DocClox]

So, gotta take care of my own little baby boy over here. He deserves mom's attention, always.

Yeah, well. Me and the missus are never going to be able to have kids. Probably the main reason I have so much difficulty empathizing with the protagonist. I just don't get that warm glow that the writers seem to rely on so heavily.

 

Now if they'd taken the SS's cat it would have been different!

[Benmc20]

I just have one though that can explain why the Synth can't reproduce : their control implant (the very one in their brain). It is certainly implanted right beside their hyppocamp (part of the brain that control hormones and fertility). If you can negate the effects of such implant, a gen-3 Synth can surely reproduce.

[Content Consumer]

 

Now if they'd taken the SS's cat it would have been different!

 

 

 

You're not the only one.

 

[AsariX]

I just have one though that can explain why the Synth can't reproduce : their control implant (the very one in their brain). It is certainly implanted right beside their hyppocamp (part of the brain that control hormones and fertility). If you can negate the effects of such implant, a gen-3 Synth can surely reproduce.

 

This is exactly my thought as well: the only difference between Humans and Gen 3 synths is the implant. It's the implant controling the fertility. Control the implant, and you control Gen 3 fertility.