Can gen 3 synths reproduce? (some major spoilers)

[Jusey1]

No.

[Ernest Lemmingway]

 

I just have one though that can explain why the Synth can't reproduce : their control implant (the very one in their brain). It is certainly implanted right beside their hyppocamp (part of the brain that control hormones and fertility). If you can negate the effects of such implant, a gen-3 Synth can surely reproduce.

 

This is exactly my thought as well: the only difference between Humans and Gen 3 synths is the implant. It's the implant controling the fertility. Control the implant, and you control Gen 3 fertility.

 

 

Well that conveniently saves Bethesda from dealing with any outcries by people/groups with too much time on their hands going after them for daring to taint otherwise wholesome, family-friendly violence with overtly sexual overtones. Good ol' American values!

 

That previous bit was dead serious, BTW. It also is an issue with many groups about creating human life essentially from scratch, artificial life reproducing on its own (the same ideas as "gray goo" but with larger machines), and even artificially-created life creating "natural life." People do not like having their assumptions challenged even in fiction, and video games are a very visible form of media they can, have, and will go after. Then there are the obsessive perfectionists who would demand Bethesda detail how Synths could reproduce if they made it canon--and given the stories in the main game and Automatron, writing for the game isn't even on their top ten list of priorities anymore.

 

One thing about Synths we never see explored is how the Institute deals with the onrush of consciousness. Birth is a traumatic experience but at least babies can't go on rampages. Are their infamous killing sprees due to the onset of true consciousness in the field? Are they just automatons working on computer logic trees before then? If you're a fan of Bubblegum Crisis (the original, 2032 version published by Animeigo) you'll recognize the similarities to Synths and Boomers, especially the S-Class or "Sexaroids." Except true S-Classes don't go berserk since their hardware was specially made to handle the things that cause lesser classes to do so.

 

The fiction of the greater BGC universe, especially in the RPG, goes into great detail about how and why D- through A-Class Boomers go berserk. One of which is use as sex dolls creating hormone rushes that degrade their bio-chips; S-Class doesn't "officially" exist since they're illegal. Hormones degrading a Synth's control chip would be a good explanation for why they go nuts; it would also mean that, if a Synth survives and regains self-control, they potentially could breed true if that's all that's hindering their reproduction.

[RedVexHK]

You guys are missing an obvious argument. IF! and only IF!  a Synth Gen 3 can become pregnant. (only works with females)  they could easily include a range of Biotech  (nano tech) incorporated in their reproductive system so as a fetus forms... it is slowly being modified by the mother's Synth biotech . what she gives birth to is a full blown Gen 4 Synth. a perfect blend of organic nano technology and natural Biology. a new type of Human.. but obviously much more than human.

Now this is just my theory..... it's not actually based on my parentage... my Parents were not Synths....and you know we don't have nano tech . more or less....

[Guest Mogie56]

Potentially a Gen 4 could reproduce but not in the realm of the Fallout Universe "without Mods". robot reproduction was never written nor discussed EVER  most likely because of ^^^^^^ stated  group "issues" that we all know would arise if it were. I would think more a Gen 5 or even 6 rather then Gen 4, only because you would need at least one possibly two Generations to work out the problems that would arise in the process. It would be totally new tech because as far as I know they have yet to be given genitals much less a system to handle reproduction. But there is always a potential when Mods are involved.  

[Wired]

I've got a better question: why do Gen3 synth ever exists? Isn't the Institude needs clear from radiation DNA material for that? The Shaun himself witnessed nuclear explosion so he is kinda muddy already... Or Institude becomes retarded due to inbreeding? Then how did they get the whole Gen3 shit together ever...

[protocolk]

I think they are actually experimenting with synth breeding, theres a kid synth and also a synth that was created to for a scientist whose wife died and thats helping him to raise his children. The original reason behi9ng the synths were to enhance humanity, so my guess is that gen 3 is a prototype for hybrids, synths appeared first on fallout3, most endings destroy the institute so unless beth wants the synths to be extinct on the next games (wich I doubt), therell probably be hybrids AKA gen 4+.

Also far harbor is about a island with synths out odf the control of the instiute, but why? Why they never sent coursers to recall them?

My gues is that they have really dangerous hybrids immune to the recall and he institute dont want to mess with them, immagine a group of coursers with free will and immune to recall, give them theyr own culture and over 40 year for a second or third generation (biological generation) and you have what i think happened in far harbour.

[DocClox]

I've got a better question: why do Gen3 synth ever exists? Isn't the Institude needs clear from radiation DNA material for that? The Shaun himself witnessed nuclear explosion so he is kinda muddy already... Or Institude becomes retarded due to inbreeding? Then how did they get the whole Gen3 shit together ever...

I've asked a few Institute supporters about the Shaun/Radiation/Explosion conundrum. As far as I can tell the canonical explanation is something along the lines of "Well .. umm... clearly that scene is just dramatic licence ... umm, obviously. And it's not meant to be taken literally! No! Unlike everything else in the game. And, um, even if it was, it's likely that the radiation was weak enough not to do any damage because ... well, just because they needed uncontaminated DNA, that doesn't mean it needs to be "uncontaminated" uncontaminated. Obviously. And, erm ... Wait! Look! Over there! Isn't that Mel Gibson? (runs away)"

 

And then of course, there's the long trek back to the Institute which is going to have a lot of scope for contamination. Or they could use the Molecular Relay I suppose, if it was invented at that point, because all that does is use a bolt of lightning to disintegrate your physical form, scan the atomic configuration, transmit that atomic structure piggy-backed on a classical radio broadcast, and reassemble it at the far ed in another burst of lightning. I mean it's hard to see how that could possibly introduce any errors into the old DNA code, what with all that lightning to create spikes in a data stream carried by a radio signal.

[Jazzman]

You guys read far too much into the plot just to create a situation as you may see fit - to become the canonized driver of a pregnant synthesized girlfriend. However, that won't happen in Bethesda's vanilla, I'm sorry to say that, oh I really am 

[Wired]

 

You guys read far too much into the plot just to create a situation as you may see fit - to become the canonized driver of a pregnant synthesized girlfriend. However, that won't happen in Bethesda's vanilla, I'm sorry to say that, oh I really am  

 

Suspention of disbelief is vital part of the process. Such big gaping plot holes breaks it. If artists and level designers doing their job like a professionals why TES4Oblivion-face Lead 'Writer' Emil doesn not? This is serious because the Instupiditute is the only organization who's able to provide us synthesized preggy.

[serenity1977]

I've got a better question: why do Gen3 synth ever exists? Isn't the Institude needs clear from radiation DNA material for that? The Shaun himself witnessed nuclear explosion so he is kinda muddy already... Or Institude becomes retarded due to inbreeding? Then how did they get the whole Gen3 shit together ever...

 

 

I think the plot from Fallout 2 may be relevant here. The Enclave scientists believed that those surviving outside of vaults were too mutated to still be described as human. The virus that they wanted to release would kill all FEV mutated life but not harm un-mutated creatures. Randomly induced mutation from radiation is comparatively unimportant, its more about FEV which has mutated all life in quite specific ways, including resistance to radiation, strength longevity and so on.

On the surface the institutes policies are kind or crazy, but if you look at their obsession with FEV experiments it starts to make some sense. We know fully mutated super mutants are infertile, is that the ultimate future for all FEV mutated humans ? Perhaps they found something else that was equally worrying, but it certainly seems that they thought it was paramount to obtain pre FEV mutated human DNA, which they used to create Gen3 Synths.

The institutes real plans are never made clear but the shift to organic Synths seems really odd when inorganic tech seems to be far more robust and stable. Did the Enclave and Institute both discover something terrible ? What does “man kind redefined” really mean and what are the institutes true aims?

 

[Wired]

 

The institutes real plans are never made clear but the shift to organic Synths seems really odd when inorganic tech seems to be far more robust and stable. Did the Enclave and Institute both discover something terrible ? What does “man kind redefined” really mean and what are the institutes true aims?On the surface the institutes policies are kind or crazy, but if you look at their obsession with FEV experiments it starts to make some sense. We know fully mutated super mutants are infertile, is that the ultimate future for all FEV mutated humans ? Perhaps they found something else that was equally worrying, but it certainly seems that they thought it was paramount to obtain pre FEV mutated human DNA, which they used to create Gen3 Synths.I think the plot from Fallout 2 may be relevant here. The Enclave scientists believed that those surviving outside of vaults were too mutated to still be described as human. The virus that they wanted to release would kill all FEV mutated life but not harm un-mutated creatures. Randomly induced mutation from radiation is comparatively unimportant, its more about FEV which has mutated all life in quite specific ways, including resistance to radiation, strength longevity and so on.

1. No, Enclave are just closed nazis and renmants of the old world goverment and that's all the reasons and that was clear in F2. That doesn't change the stupidity of their plan. Institude never got the development they really need. Outside of the closed implant program and closed FEV research program they pretty much obsessed with artificial life and that's it. Why this instead actually help people with technologies and research base they have? DEUS PATER VULT. That's not how the West coast worked and they prevailed and one of them, Kellog, knows this.

2. How in the frozen hell Instupiditute got FEV material in the first place? The strain is clearly not from Vault 87 because it's not how supermutants look. They closer to the west coast supermutants. How in the hell the Instupiditute produced such a big quanity of supermutants? West coast was Master's plan and Vault 87 was took over supermutants themselves but why not the Institude?

3. They never mentioned they need FEV for Gen3 synths, just clear DNA which is obtainable from Vault 81's isolated residents (and especially children) BTW. If they are considered boogeymen why not send moral codex to hell and do what Enclave got balls to do in the first place? Directorate doesn't seems to be cared much aswell as Shaun himself.

4. What was that experiment involved PC? He's a raging parent and first sensible thing he would do is unturn every stone in the Institude and interrogate PATER with all rewarded cruelty. Idiots.

 

Come to think of it, why adults mods on Skyrim, Oblivion and FNV were a thing and not so much in F3? Because these games were Worlds. Yes, with capital 'W'. Fallout 3 and Fallout 4 are just theme parks and fucking in a theme park doesn't feel so valid. And such story underdevelopment and lack of writing and Pete Hines are primary reasons why it's not fitting well.

[Jazzman]

What does “man kind redefined” really mean and what are the institutes true aims?

 

 

It just means that the Sole Survivor ain't just the future of the Institute and his legacy, but also entitled to redefine (or reshape) the remnants of mankind in the Wasteland as he/she may see fit. That's the reason behind the choice the Sole Survivor gets as appointed successor of Father as director general of the Institute, to redefine mankind in one way or the other, to decrease Synth production in favor of modern weapon development - the reversal of the old way of Father and his predecessors -, or the continuation of the old way, the flooding in the making of the Commonwealth with Synths, the removal of man at the end of the day, that is. I remember my char stating that wars ain't won by the quantity of soldiers that go to battle but by the quality of the weapons used (next to strategy and tactics, of course). And I must agree. And that's the moment of redefinition of mankind. The question what to do with superior weapons still remains open, Cold War-style deterrence or annihilation of potential adversaries, peaceful coexistence or violent imperial attitude, both is possible and just a matter of the Sole Survivor's (actually the player's) understanding of humanity and the true purpose of life. Remember, nobody born in the Wasteland knows what peace might mean next to a temporary absence of war due to bad weather and the like. Unfortunately, 'Mankind Redefined' and thus the player's choice on how to redefine it has absolutely no impact on the preprogrammed course of events that follow and that eventually lead to chaos, death, destruction and misery, again. Fallout 4 is a tragedy in several acts, and there is no happy end on the horizon...

[DocClox]

"Mankind Redefined". What would have been cool is if the plan was to achieve immortality by transferring the minds of the Institute scientists into synthetic Type-3 bodies. They've already demonstrated that they can cut and paste personalities and memories all over the place. You could live in a perpetually young body that didn't age and had no need (apparently) to eat or sleep and as the tech improved you could get upgrades with better bodies to inhabit. Mankind Redefined, indeed.

 

If that was the plan, all the business of replacing Commonwealthers with Synth copies makes sense, since they need to test that the uploaded personality remains stable. And that's why the defection rate is a problem ... it means that the synths still have some intrinsic personality beyond what they're uploaded with and that you couldn't guarantee to say "you" after such an upload..

 

The trouble is that, as with any number of cool explanations of Fallout 4, there is sod-all actual support for the theory. This could have been such a cool game...

 

Regarding FEV and the Type 3, apparently there's a terminal somewhere that explains how they used FEV to mutate the Type 3 DNA so that the synths didn't age and didn't need to eat, sleep or excrete. Because that's just how magic FEV is; it can free biological organisms from the requirements of the Laws of Thermodynamics, and writers from the requirement to make any sort of sense at all.

 

That said, I've not seen the terminal message myself. I'm assured it exists, but that was in the middle of a particularly heated argument on Beth forums and I couldn't be bothered (then or now) to attempt to verify the assertion.

[serenity1977]

Fallout lore has always been a bit sketchy when it comes to ghouls, logically it must be FEV + Radiation, even if most people in game assume its radiation only as FEVs existence is not well known. Its not utterly inconceivable that FEV not only protects from radiation but also allows creatures to metabolize it in some way. Perhaps new mitochondria capable of the hard radiation equivalent of photosynthesis.

 

In any case I think the Institute would only allow allow Gen 3's to breed if they are intended to repopulate the world, or at least the new underground world of the institute. Of course mistakes can still happen.

 

[Jazzman]

Fallout lore has always been a bit sketchy when it comes to ghouls, logically it must be FEV + Radiation, even if most people in game assume its radiation only as FEVs existence is not well known. Its not utterly inconceivable that FEV not only protects from radiation but also allows creatures to metabolize it in some way. Perhaps new mitochondria capable of the hard radiation equivalent of photosynthesis.

 

In any case I think the Institute would only allow allow Gen 3's to breed if they are intended to repopulate the world, or at least the new underground world of the institute. Of course mistakes can still happen.

Haven't you played the game yet? As the director general-elect you must directly decide whether the Synth production is to be increased or decreased in favor of weapon developoment. And Synths always get produced as ready-to-act adults (the synth-4 kid prototype isn't meant for mass production). There is thus no economic need for inefficient experiments with a risky 20-year growth period of Synth babies under war conditions when one just has to push a button to produce adults on an industrial scale...

[protocolk]

 

Fallout lore has always been a bit sketchy when it comes to ghouls, logically it must be FEV + Radiation, even if most people in game assume its radiation only as FEVs existence is not well known. Its not utterly inconceivable that FEV not only protects from radiation but also allows creatures to metabolize it in some way. Perhaps new mitochondria capable of the hard radiation equivalent of photosynthesis.

 

In any case I think the Institute would only allow allow Gen 3's to breed if they are intended to repopulate the world, or at least the new underground world of the institute. Of course mistakes can still happen.

Haven't you played the game yet? As the director general-elect you must directly decide whether the Synth production is to be increased or decreased in favor of weapon developoment. And Synths always get produced as ready-to-act adults (the synth-4 kid prototype isn't meant for mass production). There is thus no economic need for inefficient experiments with a risky 20-year growth period of Synth babies under war conditions when one just has to push a button to produce adults on an industrial scale...

 

 

Good point, the only thing I dont understand about the institute is why the fuck they use gen 3 as workers. For fuck sake just use gens 1 and 2! Coursers have great combat capabilities, gen 3 are great for intel and could easily become scientists! Also about raising "gen 4" (hybrids), I think is worth on a "colonize the wasteland" perspective, synthes were made to be superior than humans so hybrids would become a new highly adaptative race. That is if you count the lore, I still dont understand why they dont use genetic enhancement and implants on themselves to become superhuman, hey can create artificial humans for fuck sake! why not use their tech for increasing theyr natural capablities?

[Jazzman]

[snip]

Good point, the only thing I dont understand about the institute is why the fuck they use gen 3 as workers. For fuck sake just use gens 1 and 2! Coursers have great combat capabilities, gen 3 are great for intel and could easily become scientists! Also about raising "gen 4" (hybrids), I think is worth on a "colonize the wasteland" perspective, synthes were made to be superior than humans so hybrids would become a new highly adaptative race. That is if you count the lore, I still dont understand why they dont use genetic enhancement and implants on themselves to become superhuman, hey can create artificial humans for fuck sake! why not use their tech for increasing theyr natural capablities?

 

Synth 3 have to be 'workers', the Institute equivalent to 'settlers', simply because of the logic behind the conspiracy mantra, the propaganda that states, "Synth spy on every Bostonian" which easily leads to a gun fight now and then with potential Synths that attract attention by good reasons, probably renegade Synths after the reboot by the RR, whereas the common Bostonians are doubtlessly everything but scientists. Amongst others "scientists get kidnapped", public legend has it. The reality is a different one though, they get headhunted as volunteers as we learn from the Wilson affair, perhaps even bribed, but that'd sound not unfamiliar to us, huh? The genetics of Synth-3 is not exclusively (c.f. the variations in their features, e.g. in skin color) but to a large extent in fact based on Shaun's genome, and that's why he's called 'Father'. Synth 3 are thus already hybrids, a mixed people of adult 'products'. To trace back the genetic non-Father portion in Synth 3 would be interesting 'cause that's the secret behind their 'superiority', not Shaun's portion that lacks negative post-war mutations, not just the infertility syndrome of most Wastelanders, predominantly males. Moreover, I think constructive changes in the DNA, shifts (for the better) in the code, are to be realized at best if not only on molecular level during cell division, either in a mother's womb or by a machine that miraculously produces grown up Synth 3, but not on a grown up, old-fashioned born human, a more or less mutated scientist or the player char for example. The transformation into a cyborg should always be possible for a young and healthy human specimen though. However, Father has terminal cancer and thus he has crossed the red line for sophisticated spare parts already.

[protocolk]

 

[snip]

Good point, the only thing I dont understand about the institute is why the fuck they use gen 3 as workers. For fuck sake just use gens 1 and 2! Coursers have great combat capabilities, gen 3 are great for intel and could easily become scientists! Also about raising "gen 4" (hybrids), I think is worth on a "colonize the wasteland" perspective, synthes were made to be superior than humans so hybrids would become a new highly adaptative race. That is if you count the lore, I still dont understand why they dont use genetic enhancement and implants on themselves to become superhuman, hey can create artificial humans for fuck sake! why not use their tech for increasing theyr natural capablities?

 

Synth 3 have to be 'workers', the Institute equivalent to 'settlers', simply because of the logic behind the conspiracy mantra, the propaganda that states, "Synth spy on every Bostonian" which easily leads to a gun fight now and then with potential Synths that attract attention by good reasons, probably renegade Synths after the reboot by the RR, whereas the common Bostonians are doubtlessly everything but scientists. Amongst others "scientists get kidnapped", public legend has it. The reality is a different one though, they get headhunted as volunteers as we learn from the Wilson affair, perhaps even bribed, but that'd sound not unfamiliar to us, huh? The genetics of Synth-3 is not exclusively (c.f. the variations in their features, e.g. in skin color) but to a large extent in fact based on Shaun's genome, and that's why he's called 'Father'. Synth 3 are thus already hybrids, a mixed people of adult 'products'. To trace back the genetic non-Father portion in Synth 3 would be interesting 'cause that's the secret behind their 'superiority', not Shaun's portion that lacks negative post-war mutations, not just the infertility syndrome of most Wastelanders, predominantly males. Moreover, I think constructive changes in the DNA, shifts (for the better) in the code, are to be realized at best if not only on molecular level during cell division, either in a mother's womb or by a machine that miraculously produces grown up Synth 3, but not on a grown up, old-fashioned born human, a more or less mutated scientist or the player char for example. The transformation into a cyborg should always be possible for a young and healthy human specimen though. However, Father has terminal cancer and thus he has crossed the red line for sophisticated spare parts already.

 

 

I understand the reason behind the infiltrators, what I dont understand is why some gen 3 were doing manula labor inside the institute. There are better uses for the gen 3 than fixing stuff, leave that for gen 1-2. Also if you look into some terminalçs, gen 3 are actually superior to even pre war humans, they are geneticaly enhanced and adult enhancement is biologically possible through conditioned mutation. About the cyborg parts kellog was a cyborg and thats one of the reasons I dont understand why they dont put implants on other people... I want a cyborg MC, why cant i ask for it? In NV there was implants.

[DocClox]

I understand the reason behind the infiltrators

I'm not sure I do. I mean what benefit do they get from replacing Mayor McDoughnut? It's not like he can alter Diamond City's foreign policy to favor the Institute. There's nothing Diamond City can do to the Institute in any case. So he's suppressing investigation into the disappearances? That's only lending credence to the conspiracy theories. Even if DC security did investigate, it's unlikely they could interfere. And of course if they weren't randomly replacing citizens, they wouldn't need a cover up in the first place. At best McDoughnut is useless, at worst he's a liability. At best McDoughnut is useless, at worst he's a liability.

 

I can see the benefit in a little espionage here and there, but they could achieve those ends with a courser, a stealth boy and conventional methods.

 

Even better, on those cases where replacing an authority figure would make sense, they don't do it! They could have had access to all University Point's data simply by abducting a couple of key figures and having them access the database directly. But noooooo, they have to send in the type 1s and type 2s and wipe everyone out. Meanwhile, Roger Warwick gets replaced because there's clearly no way they could interest a farmer in a scheme to improve his crop yield. Clearly the man had to go.

 

Whoo! Sorry. I hadn't realised I'd bottled all that up so much.

 

what I dont understand is why some gen 3 were doing manula labor inside the institute.

Better yet, look at their production room. They print off a new type 3, what, every 30 seconds or so? That's 86400 type 3s in a month. Just over a million in the course of a year. And they say they have a resources problem? I'm not surprised! If they stopped printing excess type 3s and teleporting courses all over the map they'd have no problems at all. And what the hell are they going to do with all those warm bodies? I could understand if they were planning an armed invasion of the surface world, although even then they might be better off with the (presumably cheaper) type 1s and 2s.

 

I think the answer, like so much about the Institute, is "Because Science! Boo-hah-hah-hah-hah!"

[Jazzman]

[snip]

I understand the reason behind the infiltrators, what I dont understand is why some gen 3 were doing manula labor inside the institute. There are better uses for the gen 3 than fixing stuff, leave that for gen 1-2. Also if you look into some terminalçs, gen 3 are actually superior to even pre war humans, they are geneticaly enhanced and adult enhancement is biologically possible through conditioned mutation. About the cyborg parts kellog was a cyborg and thats one of the reasons I dont understand why they dont put implants on other people... I want a cyborg MC, why cant i ask for it? In NV there was implants.

 

The planting of less relevant NPCs on the grid that serve no plot purpose not necessarily follows a given agenda in a strict fashion. Looking at the abandoned Enclave-like Vault part in the Institute and the Super Muties still in the tanks there, the FEV virus hypothesis as cause of at least some advantages that have found their way into the Synth 3 generation comes into play again, but isn't yet verified by a precise and thus verifiable location of the terminal that might have preserved these critical information. As to why the Institute didn't equip 'other people', younger and healthy scientists that is, with cyborg implants to extend their life for the sake of a more effective science, I don't know, maybe it has something to do with anticipated conflicts between 'almost immortal' cyborgs and normal humans that by means of age and/or health couldn't get equipped with such implants.

[Ernest Lemmingway]

 

I understand the reason behind the infiltrators

I'm not sure I do. I mean what benefit do they get from replacing Mayor McDoughnut? It's not like he can alter Diamond City's foreign policy to favor the Institute. There's nothing Diamond City can do to the Institute in any case. So he's suppressing investigation into the disappearances? That's only lending credence to the conspiracy theories. Even if DC security did investigate, it's unlikely they could interfere. And of course if they weren't randomly replacing citizens, they wouldn't need a cover up in the first place. At best McDoughnut is useless, at worst he's a liability. At best McDoughnut is useless, at worst he's a liability.

 

I can see the benefit in a little espionage here and there, but they could achieve those ends with a courser, a stealth boy and conventional methods.

 

Even better, on those cases where replacing an authority figure would make sense, they don't do it! They could have had access to all University Point's data simply by abducting a couple of key figures and having them access the database directly. But noooooo, they have to send in the type 1s and type 2s and wipe everyone out. Meanwhile, Roger Warwick gets replaced because there's clearly no way they could interest a farmer in a scheme to improve his crop yield. Clearly the man had to go.

 

Whoo! Sorry. I hadn't realised I'd bottled all that up so much.

 

what I dont understand is why some gen 3 were doing manula labor inside the institute.

Better yet, look at their production room. They print off a new type 3, what, every 30 seconds or so? That's 86400 type 3s in a month. Just over a million in the course of a year. And they say they have a resources problem? I'm not surprised! If they stopped printing excess type 3s and teleporting courses all over the map they'd have no problems at all. And what the hell are they going to do with all those warm bodies? I could understand if they were planning an armed invasion of the surface world, although even then they might be better off with the (presumably cheaper) type 1s and 2s.

 

I think the answer, like so much about the Institute, is "Because Science! Boo-hah-hah-hah-hah!"

 

 

I have to agree. From a drama/story standpoint, Synths just don't make any sense. Their inclusion has never made any sense going back to FO3 since they're just not in the vein of Fallout. If they're supposed to represent the hidden infiltrator-archetype, there are ways that better fit with the weird, zany, and '50s retro sci-fi universe. An FEV-created plant Invasion of the Pod People-style would have been better (and worthy of the giggles that made the first two games and NV so fun). Synths owe more to Terminator than any '50s sci-fi schlock. Then there are the ways they're used, which Doc has illustrated. The plot holes are big enough to drive a tanker truck through.

 

For the purposes of sites like Lovers Lab, Synths do offer something for modders. Otherwise they and the Institute just don't fit. Even matter/energy teleportation owes more to the original Star Trek than to the early-Cold War science fiction Fallout is based on. Once again, Bethesda proves they just don't get Fallout.

[protocolk]

 

I understand the reason behind the infiltrators

I'm not sure I do. I mean what benefit do they get from replacing Mayor McDoughnut? It's not like he can alter Diamond City's foreign policy to favor the Institute. There's nothing Diamond City can do to the Institute in any case. So he's suppressing investigation into the disappearances? That's only lending credence to the conspiracy theories. Even if DC security did investigate, it's unlikely they could interfere. And of course if they weren't randomly replacing citizens, they wouldn't need a cover up in the first place. At best McDoughnut is useless, at worst he's a liability. At best McDoughnut is useless, at worst he's a liability.

 

I can see the benefit in a little espionage here and there, but they could achieve those ends with a courser, a stealth boy and conventional methods.

 

Even better, on those cases where replacing an authority figure would make sense, they don't do it! They could have had access to all University Point's data simply by abducting a couple of key figures and having them access the database directly. But noooooo, they have to send in the type 1s and type 2s and wipe everyone out. Meanwhile, Roger Warwick gets replaced because there's clearly no way they could interest a farmer in a scheme to improve his crop yield. Clearly the man had to go.

 

Whoo! Sorry. I hadn't realised I'd bottled all that up so much.

 

what I dont understand is why some gen 3 were doing manula labor inside the institute.

Better yet, look at their production room. They print off a new type 3, what, every 30 seconds or so? That's 86400 type 3s in a month. Just over a million in the course of a year. And they say they have a resources problem? I'm not surprised! If they stopped printing excess type 3s and teleporting courses all over the map they'd have no problems at all. And what the hell are they going to do with all those warm bodies? I could understand if they were planning an armed invasion of the surface world, although even then they might be better off with the (presumably cheaper) type 1s and 2s.

 

I think the answer, like so much about the Institute, is "Because Science! Boo-hah-hah-hah-hah!"

 

 

I said I understand their reasoning not thats not a retarded idea. The institute main problem is that tey isolated themselves for over 100 years, they do not know how to act in society or have common sense, just talk to the scientists and gen 3, they have no idea on how people think,theyre not evil, just socially akward and think people dont agree with them because they lack knowledge, they have no idea on how to even run them, thats the main reason they lack resources, they don know how to manage them... theyre like supreinteligent kids...

 

 

[snip]

I understand the reason behind the infiltrators, what I dont understand is why some gen 3 were doing manula labor inside the institute. There are better uses for the gen 3 than fixing stuff, leave that for gen 1-2. Also if you look into some terminalçs, gen 3 are actually superior to even pre war humans, they are geneticaly enhanced and adult enhancement is biologically possible through conditioned mutation. About the cyborg parts kellog was a cyborg and thats one of the reasons I dont understand why they dont put implants on other people... I want a cyborg MC, why cant i ask for it? In NV there was implants.

 

The planting of less relevant NPCs on the grid that serve no plot purpose not necessarily follows a given agenda in a strict fashion. Looking at the abandoned Enclave-like Vault part in the Institute and the Super Muties still in the tanks there, the FEV virus hypothesis as cause of at least some advantages that have found their way into the Synth 3 generation comes into play again, but isn't yet verified by a precise and thus verifiable location of the terminal that might have preserved these critical information. As to why the Institute didn't equip 'other people', younger and healthy scientists that is, with cyborg implants to extend their life for the sake of a more effective science, I don't know, maybe it has something to do with anticipated conflicts between 'almost immortal' cyborgs and normal humans that by means of age and/or health couldn't get equipped with such implants.

 

kellog was kinda old when he got the implants and trhat was when shaun was a baby, my guess is that the institute dont use them fopr fear of EMPs, but i think its a good trade.

[DocClox]

I said I understand their reasoning not thats not a retarded idea.

 

Yeah, yeah. I understood that. I was just saying that I didn't understand their reasoning. (And I don't think it's so much retarded as badly written, FWIW).

 

Anyway, I wasn't trying to have a poke at you, just using the point to say something that I'd been pondering for a while.

 

The institute main problem is that tey isolated themselves for over 100 years, they do not know how to act in society or have common sense, just talk to the scientists and gen 3, they have no idea on how people think,theyre not evil, just socially akward and think people dont agree with them because they lack knowledge, they have no idea on how to even run them, thats the main reason they lack resources, they don know how to manage them... theyre like supreinteligent kids...

 

See, to my mind, socially awkward would be arranging a meeting with the Minutemen and then insisting on discussing pre-war classic Scf-Fi TV series when everyone else wanted to talk about food shortages. Wiping out University Point when they could have easily got the information by trade or infiltration ... I don't think "socially awkward" covers it, really.

[darkconsole]

i always thought it was plausible. if they are so perfect that its super hard to determine if they are human or not even with biopsy (one of the quests leads you to an underground doctor cutting people open) then that shit would have to work, or else medical analysis would red flag it - they never mentioned if most of the humans were sterile or not after this. that would be the only wrench in the pipeline.

[Jazzman]

See, to my mind, socially awkward would be arranging a meeting with the Minutemen and then insisting on discussing pre-war classic Scf-Fi TV series when everyone else wanted to talk about food shortages. Wiping out University Point when they could have easily got the information by trade or infiltration ... I don't think "socially awkward" covers it, really.

The strategic goal of 'Operation University Point' wasn't so much the required information, for otherwise there'd be no more Synth military presence after some four years, rather to catch the location, a valuable strategic point with its three sides protected by the North Atlantic. The Institute thus 'cleared' the area, a bloody event with civilian casualties, later perhaps justified with 'insurgents on site', if ever. Sounds familiar, huh?