Can gen 3 synths reproduce? (some major spoilers)

[protocolk]

 

See, to my mind, socially awkward would be arranging a meeting with the Minutemen and then insisting on discussing pre-war classic Scf-Fi TV series when everyone else wanted to talk about food shortages. Wiping out University Point when they could have easily got the information by trade or infiltration ... I don't think "socially awkward" covers it, really.

The strategic goal of 'Operation University Point' wasn't so much the required information, for otherwise there'd be no more Synth military presence after some four years, rather to catch the location, a valuable strategic point with its three sides protected by the North Atlantic. The Institute thus 'cleared' the area, a bloody event with civilian casualties, later perhaps justified with 'insurgents on site', if ever. Sounds familiar, huh?

 

sounds like the government...

 

I really wanted a peacefull path, the institute people arent evil, but like kids if you leave them alone theyll do something stupid like researching on the FEV or fucking synth gorillas thay can scape and kill them, if father was going to die anyway and Im the new director I wanted to make a deal with the railroad, I give the synths right and let them choose to stay with the intitute as its members or to leave but never return whule warning them of the HQ raid, then we band togeter to kill BOS. Theyre fucking wastelamd nazis, theyre uch more dangerous than the institute.

[Jazzman]

 

The strategic goal of 'Operation University Point' wasn't so much the required information, for otherwise there'd be no more Synth military presence after some four years, rather to catch the location, a valuable strategic point with its three sides protected by the North Atlantic. The Institute thus 'cleared' the area, a bloody event with civilian casualties, later perhaps justified with 'insurgents on site', if ever. Sounds familiar, huh?

sounds like the government...

 

I really wanted a peacefull path, the institute people arent evil, but like kids if you leave them alone theyll do something stupid like researching on the FEV or fucking synth gorillas thay can scape and kill them, if father was going to die anyway and Im the new director I wanted to make a deal with the railroad, I give the synths right and let them choose to stay with the intitute as its members or to leave but never return whule warning them of the HQ raid, then we band togeter to kill BOS. Theyre fucking wastelamd nazis, theyre uch more dangerous than the institute.

 

Of course, the Institute isn't evil per se, just the SRB of Zimmer, the man I killed many years ago in cold blood in Rivet City, something I'd love to tell his deputy, death squad Ayo before I remove him from the equation as well, just to send the indoctrinated coursers into a Chinese-style reeducation camp on Spectacle Island.

Actually, when it comes to the Commonwealth - 'the surface' -, the Institute lives in a parallel world, and the two realities simply don't match, result of a too intense isolation for too long.

Peace is the absence of war. Unfortunately, Bethesda doesn't like peace in the plot, simply because war, war never changes - war is permanent. Therefore there is no such peaceful path, no peaceful solution in Fallout 4 possible and thus I got stuck at the crossroads of the main quest... since late December last year already. To say something about the DC Outcasts that call themselves the BoS of the Commonwealth, alien to the Bostonians they label 'scum that must be removed', is superfluous 'cause either folks see what that faction is behind the shiny armor or they just see that shiny armor and then nothing else matters anymore.

[protocolk]

 

 

The strategic goal of 'Operation University Point' wasn't so much the required information, for otherwise there'd be no more Synth military presence after some four years, rather to catch the location, a valuable strategic point with its three sides protected by the North Atlantic. The Institute thus 'cleared' the area, a bloody event with civilian casualties, later perhaps justified with 'insurgents on site', if ever. Sounds familiar, huh?

sounds like the government...

 

I really wanted a peacefull path, the institute people arent evil, but like kids if you leave them alone theyll do something stupid like researching on the FEV or fucking synth gorillas thay can scape and kill them, if father was going to die anyway and Im the new director I wanted to make a deal with the railroad, I give the synths right and let them choose to stay with the intitute as its members or to leave but never return whule warning them of the HQ raid, then we band togeter to kill BOS. Theyre fucking wastelamd nazis, theyre uch more dangerous than the institute.

 

Of course, the Institute isn't evil per se, just the SRB of Zimmer, the man I killed many years ago in cold blood in Rivet City, something I'd love to tell his deputy, death squad Ayo before I remove him from the equation as well, just to send the indoctrinated coursers into a Chinese-style reeducation camp on Spectacle Island.

Actually, when it comes to the Commonwealth - 'the surface' -, the Institute lives in a parallel world, and the two realities simply don't match, result of a too intense isolation for too long.

Peace is the absence of war. Unfortunately, Bethesda doesn't like peace in the plot, simply because war, war never changes - war is permanent. Therefore there is no such peaceful path, no peaceful solution in Fallout 4 possible and thus I got stuck at the crossroads of the main quest... since late December last year already. To say something about the DC Outcasts that call themselves the BoS of the Commonwealth, alien to the Bostonians they label 'scum that must be removed', is superfluous 'cause either folks see what that faction is behind the shiny armor or they just see that shiny armor and then nothing else matters anymore.

 

 

I dont want to use the geck until its finished 9open beta for now), but I will to make a mod to change the MQ. first i was thinking about an alternatequestline, but I would need to much time and a huge team, instead I will makeexpansions to the factiopn were you can actually do something that matters. I was thinking about a institute/railroad alliance on it if you have "high rank" on the railroad and understand the institute isnt evil, just a complete retard regarding human interactions,  you could warn desdemona about the atack and take part on it, just to find that the HQ was evacuated, skipping the end of the line quest, hen father dies and you can reform the institute to free the synths that want to go away.

 

I will do a thread about it.

 

BTW back to if synths can reproduce, what about the institute guy who maried a synth after his wife died?

[Jazzman]

[/signed] 

BTW back to if synths can reproduce, what about the institute guy who maried a synth after his wife died?

You're talking about Eve. Though different from what Fallout Wiki wants to make us believe, she's not just the experiment of Alan Binet, who wants to see if a synth can integrate into a human family, in simple terms, to become the surrogate mom of Alan's son Liam, she's also Alan's lover to make the family 'experiment' made of mutual needs more perfect. However, her sex drive is highly developed, poor Alan, you can even flirt with her, at least a little bit (as in my case), perhaps even a little bit more if your char is a handsome dude, who knows?

[protocolk]

she actually says shes married, if a men flirts with her. Shes actually one opf the reasons behind my far harbour gen 4 theory. Far harbour will be about a colony of gen 3 that is outsid the reach of the institute, so why they dont send coursers here? My guess is that they cant, gen 3 have superior capabilities than humans, they contrabalance it by making sure only coursers receive combat training and the racll codes, but... hybrids (gen4) wouldnt have  a reacll code and if they have a settlement they would have trained guards. Imagine a group of free willed coursers that fended other coursers and dont have reacll codes. Now make a entire city of them... i think the institute knows they cant handle it, even if they send a courser the sheer number of gen 4 would give them an advantage, thats my theory at least on gen 4s and far harbour, I just hope Im right (because it would be pretty awesome) or something even better (I doubt, beth writer are fucking up more each game, but a man can dream).

[DocClox]

The strategic goal of 'Operation University Point' wasn't so much the required information, for otherwise there'd be no more Synth military presence after some four years, rather to catch the location, a valuable strategic point with its three sides protected by the North Atlantic. The Institute thus 'cleared' the area, a bloody event with civilian casualties, later perhaps justified with 'insurgents on site', if ever. Sounds familiar, huh?

Is that stated anywhere in game? I had a row with some Institute fan on another forum where he stated absolutely damn flat that the Institute had no military ambitions regarding the surface world. Mind, he also claimed that the Institute didn't have a military and that the synths we fight on the surface are all scavenger details armed for their own protection. I think I useds the term "dingo's kidneys" in my reply, but he may have had a point.

 

After that, someone else tried to tell me that the synths in University Point were damaged units left behind after the raid because it was cheaper to let them fall apart than it was to teleport them back and fix them.

[Jazzman]

 

The strategic goal of 'Operation University Point' wasn't so much the required information, for otherwise there'd be no more Synth military presence after some four years, rather to catch the location, a valuable strategic point with its three sides protected by the North Atlantic. The Institute thus 'cleared' the area, a bloody event with civilian casualties, later perhaps justified with 'insurgents on site', if ever. Sounds familiar, huh?

Is that stated anywhere in game? I had a row with some Institute fan on another forum where he stated absolutely damn flat that the Institute had no military ambitions regarding the surface world. Mind, he also claimed that the Institute didn't have a military and that the synths we fight on the surface are all scavenger details armed for their own protection. I think I useds the term "dingo's kidneys" in my reply, but he may have had a point.

 

After that, someone else tried to tell me that the synths in University Point were damaged units left behind after the raid because it was cheaper to let them fall apart than it was to teleport them back and fix them.

 

Although appreciated, no statement by the Institute explicitly needed when the facts of boots on the ground tell their own tale. 'Hold and Protect', that's the primary objective of any military base since the age of the Assyrians some 4.300 years ago, and that's exactly what the Synths are doing at University Point. Their strength in numbers on site is too large for a 'lost' scavenger team. Any argument like 'not to be retrieved (one by one) due to lack of assets within four years' I simply take as a joke 'cause the Institute follows the US military paradigm of 'leave nobody behind', that's why the protagonist gets these radiant Reclamation quests by Alana Secord of the SRB. Remember, in the dialogues, Zimmer's (Ayo's) courser X6-88 reveals the same genocidal agenda of the SRB as Maxson's BoS/Outcasts - to wipe out 'all the others' at the end of the day, that is. And that's not exactly what Father's scavenging of the surface is all about, he predicts the self-inflicted fading of a 'doomed' mankind instead. Therefore I feel justified for having killed Zimmer back then in Rivet City. The deadly conflict between the protagonist as director general-elect of the Institute and Ayo as head of the SRB is already announced by Father on the day of appointment and thus preprogrammed. Ayo is a dangerous arrogant man that doesn't even take the protagonist seriously, and that bucket full of hate (hopefully) goes both ways. There can be only one director general of the Institute, something I'll make sure - it's my way or the highway.

[DocClox]

Although appreciated, no statement by the Institute explicitly needed when the facts of boots on the ground tell their own tale. 'Hold and Protect', that's the primary objective of any military base since the age of the Assyrians some 4.300 years ago, and that's exactly what the Synths are doing at University Point. Their strength in numbers on site is too large for a 'lost' scavenger team. Any argument like 'not to be retrieved (one by one) due to lack of assets within four years' I simply take as a joke 'cause the Institute follows the US military paradigm of 'leave nobody behind', that's why the protagonist gets these radiant Reclamation quests by Alana Secord of the SRB. Remember, in the dialogues, Zimmer's (Ayo's) courser X6-88 reveals the same genocidal agenda of the SRB as Maxson's BoS/Outcasts - to wipe out 'all the others' at the end of the day, that is. And that's not exactly what Father's scavenging of the surface is all about, he predicts the self-inflicted fading of a 'doomed' mankind instead. Therefore I feel justified for having killed Zimmer back then in Rivet City. The deadly conflict between the protagonist as director general-elect of the Institute and Ayo as head of the SRB is already announced by Father on the day of appointment and thus preprogrammed. Ayo is a dangerous arrogant man that doesn't even take the protagonist seriously, and that bucket full of hate (hopefully) goes both ways. There can be only one director general of the Institute, something I'll make sure - it's my way or the highway.

Interesting theory. I'm not sure I'm convinced though.

 

The trouble is that the Institute's portrayal seems way too inconsistent to draw any conclusions purely from circumstantial evidence. One minute they're mad scientists, abducting civilians releasing supermutants on the surface world because they can. The next minute they're trying to better Mankind by developing better crops for a radioactive world; the next they're keeping a military presence in the arse-end of the map (why do you need a surface base when you have teleport technology?) and printing off Type 3s at a rate of around 80k a month.

 

The game can't decide what the Institute is supposed to be. It's possible they're supposed to be ambiguous and so that we can project our own interpretations (as you seem to be doing). Personally, I think it's just sloppy writing.

[Jazzman]

Interesting theory. I'm not sure I'm convinced though.

 

The trouble is that the Institute's portrayal seems way too inconsistent to draw any conclusions purely from circumstantial evidence. One minute they're mad scientists, abducting civilians releasing supermutants on the surface world because they can. The next minute they're trying to better Mankind by developing better crops for a radioactive world; the next they're keeping a military presence in the arse-end of the map (why do you need a surface base when you have teleport technology?) and printing off Type 3s at a rate of around 80k a month.

 

The game can't decide what the Institute is supposed to be. It's possible they're supposed to be ambiguous and so that we can project our own interpretations (as you seem to be doing). Personally, I think it's just sloppy writing.

Methinks the SRB under Justin Ayo seriously tries to undermine Father's directives, aiming at a (soft) takeover of power and a paradigm shift from a mere scavenging towards a military force, the basis for 'the annihilation of mankind on the surface' the courser X6-88 is vividly talking about which, in turn, clearly offers the impression of the Institute as being schizophrenic, operating as hypocrites with two more or less antagonistic agendas at the same time.

'Abducting civilians' by the Institute however, that's 24/7 365 BoS (flyer) propaganda, psychological warfare to scare the already scared Bostonians to death and in this way make them blind for the real threat - the running BoS intervention of the Commonwealth and the fascist military dictatorship of a Mussolini-like 'Fuehrer' with the genocide of the Bostonians as subhuman 'scum' at the end of the day. Remember, BoS troopers in the Commonwealth ain't even allowed to talk to Wastelanders by the most recent Fuehrer's order, thus there won't ever be a kumbaya in Boston. Piper who in good journalistic fashion randomly asks any folk about their understanding of the actual situation in the Commonwealth has never ever asked a BoS trooper in my game. Guess why.

Finally, military bases at strategic points (like University Point) are always needed when one permanently and not just occasionally after a previous reconnaissance mission wants to control allegedly or actually hostile areas.

[DocClox]

'Abducting civilians' by the Institute however, that's 24/7 365 BoS (flyer) propaganda

Are you roleplaying when you say that or is that a serious argument?

[Jazzman]

 

'Abducting civilians' by the Institute however, that's 24/7 365 BoS (flyer) propaganda

Are you roleplaying when you say that or is that a serious argument?

 

The latter. And what might be the counterargument, next to the desperate woman that spread wishful thinking based on anti-Institute hearsay just to get into the catchy headlines of Diamond City's Publick Occurrences at least once in her life, hmm? Remember the Wallace incident? Or the guy that got shot in cold blood next to Power Noodles for allegedly being a synthetic replicant and wasn't? Cloning was successfully introduced first by Father and pushed through against massive internal resistance, and this only once - little Shaun incarnate came into being, the ultimate bait for the parental feelings of the Sole Survivor. When Hancock got ghoulified in the all-out nuclear war, his brother was probably dead already and not perhaps to be cloned synthetically on the fly in the direct aftermath of Armageddon by anybody, let alone the missing technology at the very time and yet in perfect shape some 260 years later? Despite the apparent he doesn't get shot on sight by Hancock. Think twice, think big...

 

Happy Weekend

[protocolk]

theres something else about the BOS that you forgot to comment, they beleieve their cause make them above everyone else, theres a repetable quest from them to seize resources by force from settlers, you literally go to them and try to convince them to give all theyr food for the "war effort", if you fail the persuasion the quest makes you kill them and take theyr food, also they hate all ghouls and without the institute theyl will atack goodneighbour and raze it, the same with the slog, hem theyll run to every settlement "confiscating" any kind of pre war tech they find. Also people use the argument that the instittute destroyed some settlements, but they explain that they tried to be peacefull and sent synths to get resources, but people got scared with the gen 1 and atacked them, thats when the institurte decided to destroy and scrap entire settlements for resources, mos of the "kidnaped" scientists joinedhe institute by their own will and people just blame everything on them. Like nick sayd "theyre the boogueyman of the commonwealth, no one know theyr agenda", but when something happens in the commnwealth the institute always take the blame, they fuck up a lot, but most of the "atrocities" they comited is just people blaming them for something.

Also the BOS will kill anyone who learn how to use or produce pre war tech.

[DocClox]

The latter. And what might be the counterargument

You mean apart from the mutants in the Institute's FEV lab? I assume you're not going to tell me that they were volunteers from the Institute's own population.

 

Or the fact that we know the Institute have been replacing surface dwellers with synths? We know that Roger Warwick changed personality dramatically after being replaced, and we have the Art Vs. Art scene to testify that surface world settlers are being murdered so that synths can take their place. You can probably score a point by saying that Art wasn't being abducted but simply murdered, but it seems unlikely that all synth replacements follow that pattern.

 

Certainly you can cite cases where synth paranoia resulted in the death of innocents, but that doesn't imply they were all erroneous, and there is ample evidence to the contrary. And even if I concede the point about the replacements not being abductions, those FEV tubes didn't fill themselves.

 

next to the desperate woman that spread wishful thinking based on anti-Institute hearsay just to get into the catchy headlines of Diamond City's Publick Occurrences at least once in her life, hmm?

So ... are you seriously going to try and tell us that Piper Wright invented the whole thing to sell more newspapers? Can I take a moment to encourage you to expand on that point, perhaps?

[Frel]

1,.Biologically speaking, Gen3 snyths are totally human(acturally "perfect" prewar human) with brain implant, so they can have sex with wasteland human, no difficulty.

 

2, The problem is whether they can get preg, from a follower's quest he will tell you that he tried to have babies with his snyth wife, but failed

 

So I think with out the SexTec, snyths can't preg

Well, one synth is sterile, this is not something that is uncommon for humans either ... If we had a scientific report on a terminal saying "all synth are sterile for some reason" like we did for mutants) I would agree but one sample do not make it a generality.

 

In short as far as we know synths are as likely to be sterile as humans. 

[Ernest Lemmingway]

Synths, the Institute, none of it has ever fit well with the Fallout universe. They don't owe a thing to '50s sci-fi b-movies that inspired the series but to Terminator. I still say whoever decided to use them should be dragged into the street and shot. Or sterilized. That kind of idiocy shouldn't be allowed to breed.

[Jazzman]

 

The latter. And what might be the counterargument

You mean apart from the mutants in the Institute's FEV lab? I assume you're not going to tell me that they were volunteers from the Institute's own population.

 

Or the fact that we know the Institute have been replacing surface dwellers with synths? We know that Roger Warwick changed personality dramatically after being replaced, and we have the Art Vs. Art scene to testify that surface world settlers are being murdered so that synths can take their place. You can probably score a point by saying that Art wasn't being abducted but simply murdered, but it seems unlikely that all synth replacements follow that pattern.

 

Certainly you can cite cases where synth paranoia resulted in the death of innocents, but that doesn't imply they were all erroneous, and there is ample evidence to the contrary. And even if I concede the point about the replacements not being abductions, those FEV tubes didn't fill themselves.

 

next to the desperate woman that spread wishful thinking based on anti-Institute hearsay just to get into the catchy headlines of Diamond City's Publick Occurrences at least once in her life, hmm?

So ... are you seriously going to try and tell us that Piper Wright invented the whole thing to sell more newspapers? Can I take a moment to encourage you to expand on that point, perhaps?

 

Well, beside the fact that the Institute has indeed experimented with Super Mutants for some time to improve their synthetic program which has run Virgil into massive ethic problems with the shut down of the FEV program at the end of the day, the assumption that these specimens in the Commonwealth are not related to those from the Capital Wasteland (the opposite of being captured by the Institute on site) is exclusively based on terminal entries aboard the BoS zeppelin Prydwen. Ring a bell? You need a specimen of each Super Mutant variant to make such a statement! However, for Fallout Wicki this is already the ultimate proof that the Institute has abducted Bostonians. But that's just the inversion of an argument. Actually it is a variant of a known theme like the faked crap Sec. of State Collin Powell served up at the UN in early 2003 - Saddam Hussein has Weapons of Mass Destruction, and we have the (self-fabricated) proof here and here, let's get him. That's called self-fulfilling prophecy for the sake of the own agenda, and the adversary gets demonized henceforth until the goal is reached, his destruction. All the BoS/Outcasts had to do was to spread the propaganda that Super Mutants in the Commonwealth were unique products of the Institute, results of abductions of Bostonians, and not perhaps related to those in Capital Wasteland, imported by the BoS/Outcasts or the Enclave that is. Interestingly, the timeframe between Lone Wanderer and Sole Survivor correlates more or less to the assumed length of the FEV program by the Institute.

 

Do we have a problem? The person that has spread the abduction humbug to get into the headlines could hardly have been the journalist of that very newspaper herself. I was talking about the alleged abduction of Becky Fallon's husband, even the guards of Diamond City find it somewhat... too-too. But the public loves it for fears it, it bothers them, makes them focus on. It's the animal attraction of the evil good people simply can't resist. Finally they start to believe in it for having seen it behind any bush of their choice, and the witch hunt begins. This time it's the hunt for synthetized replicants, even in the own family. Mistrust everywhere among the Bostonians, but to whose profit in the struggle for dominance in the Commonwealth, what think?

 

To make a long story short, apparently you are already taken in by the BoS/Outcast propaganda that is pulled over your eyes from the very beginning (when the loading screen tells you that the Institute is commonly understood as the bogeyman), almost to precondition you and make you blind for what's actually behind, and that's probably the reason why you call the Fallout4 story 'lousy written'. Maybe it is just a lousy understanding of the story, huh? I don't even criticize this, it's all-too human. I for one believed in the lie of Saddam Hussein's Weapons of Mass Destruction when I was a little girl, and I was far from being alone. You know, in Fallout 4 much boils down to deception, indoctrination and propaganda, and that's the most interesting thing in the story, at least for me.

[DocClox]

Well, beside the fact that the Institute has indeed experimented with Super Mutants for some time

Yes. And the subjects for these experments came from where, exactly?

 

the assumption that these specimens in the Commonwealth are not related to those from the Capital Wasteland (the opposite of being captured by the Institute on site) is exclusively based on terminal entries aboard the BoS zeppelin Prydwen.

So you're suggesting what, then? That they've been shipping in mutants from the Capital Wasteland to study? And Virgil's memos in the FEV lab where he begs the Director to stop the experiments are based purely on the fact that it's cruel to the poor little supermutants, taking them out of their natural environment like that?

 

Ring a bell?

There's a bell, there's a belfry and I'm starting to worry that it might have bats in it.

 

However, for Fallout Wicki this is already the ultimate proof that the Institute has abducted Bostonians. But that's just the inversion of an argument. Actually it is a variant of a known theme like the faked crap Sec. of State Collin Powell served up at the UN in early 2003 - Saddam Hussein has Weapons of Mass Destruction, and we have the (self-fabricated) proof here and here, let's get him. That's called self-fulfilling prophecy for the sake of the own agenda

So, let me see if I have this straight. Elder Maxson borrowed some of Mama Murphy's chems and predicted that the Institute would begin to experiment on supermutant which thereby forced the Institute to begin the program in order to comply with the prophecy. So the institute aren't doing it and anyway it's not their fault. Is that what you're saying? Or was it that Sec. of State Collin Powell was on drugs in 2003 and that was what started the inevitable chain of events. 'Cause that part isn't especially clear, if you don't mind me saying so.

 

All the BoS/Outcasts had to do was to spread the propaganda that the Super Mutants in the Commonwealth were unique products of the Institute, results of abductions, and by no means related to those in Capital Wasteland, imports by the BoS/Outcasts or Enclave remnants that is. Interestingly, the timeframe between Lone Wanderer and Sole Survivor correlates more or less to the assumed length of the FEV program by the Institute.

... and the glass tubes with the preserved supermutants are purely museum exhibits, and they're only protected by all those locks and turrets because the Institue believes really, really strongly in enforcing museum opening hours. That still leaves the problem of the cell block where it appears that test subjects, possibly children given the toys, have been kept while the FEV mutated them ... but I expect Elder Maxson planted that evidence just to demonize the institute.

 

Maybe it is just a lousy understanding of the story, huh?

I think it's just a lousy story, to be honest.

[Jazzman]

 

Maybe it is just a lousy understanding of the story, huh?

I think it's just a lousy story, to be honest.

 

As a curious nature I leave it at that. It is impossible to fill a cup that is already full.

Thanks for the entertaining conversation

 

theres something else about the BOS that you forgot to comment, they beleieve their cause make them above everyone else...

This is because Maxson's splinter group of the BoS is consciously styled by Bethesda after the fascist military regimes in Europe of the 20th century (in the first place) - Hitler in Germany, Mussolini in Italy and Franco in Spain. They all felt chosen by history for being superior, exceptional and indispensable... and undermined and surrounded by nasty 'subhuman scum' that had allegedly taken away from them what was thought to be rightfully theirs, and theirs alone - the precious assets (in game, the technology) of all land within reach. Thus, there is no big difference between Hitler's order "Don't buy from Jews!" and Maxson's "Don't talk to Wastelanders!" Unsurprisingly, the Maxson Youth aboard the Hindenburg-like Prydwen is perfectly dressed up like the Hitler Youth of 1944/45. The only difference is the color of both field uniform and cap, the little German boys wore black... and died in it as child soldiers, I was told by US veterans.

 

 

At least, the Maxson faction in game could and did reproduce... for the victory.

Ad victoriam, Sieg Heil or whateva

[protocolk]

I will coment in red

 

Well, beside the fact that the Institute has indeed experimented with Super Mutants for some time

Yes. And the subjects for these experments came from where, exactly?

 

The commonwealth, but the isntitute hasnt created those supermutants. Viruses are cionstatnly mutating and creating new "version" by themselves, thats why theres no cure for the common flu  it mutates too fast and there are too many veriations. The reason behind the FEV lab in the instuttite was to cure supermutants (secondary objective) and to leran how to create mutagens, the fev lab was the origin of theyr mutagenic research and help to advance it. When the lab was closed they had to find other ways to create mutagenics, wich they still try to do, they were trying to find a way to make humans resistant to radiation and stronger. They dont need the mutagenics so much because they have gen 3 synths now, but whats the reason for he gen 3 and kid shaun (synth)? Evolution. They want to save humanity by evolving, they want to ascend beyond humanity, thats theyr goal, not to rule the commonwealth, not to change it, but to survive and prosper. If you read about the synth that married a scientist Eve you see that the reason for gen 3s, kid shaun, and the sterelity on most gen 3 it to see if hybrids are viable. Thats why father asks if you could love kid shaun as a real kid. after they see if synths can grow and adapt properly theyll reach theyr objective, enhance humanity.
 

the assumption that these specimens in the Commonwealth are not related to those from the Capital Wasteland (the opposite of being captured by the Institute on site) is exclusively based on terminal entries aboard the BoS zeppelin Prydwen.

So you're suggesting what, then? That they've been shipping in mutants from the Capital Wasteland to study? And Virgil's memos in the FEV lab where he begs the Director to stop the experiments are based purely on the fact that it's cruel to the poor little supermutants, taking them out of their natural environment like that?

 

thats bullshit, viruses mutate by ther own. Dengue was a single disease 17 years ago, no there are 5 versions of it are you saind someone has been fcking south america by messing wih a virus on purpose? what about the ozens of versions of flu?
 

Ring a bell?

There's a bell, there's a belfry and I'm starting to worry that it might have bats in it.

 

LOL, good move man, good move.
 

However, for Fallout Wicki this is already the ultimate proof that the Institute has abducted Bostonians. But that's just the inversion of an argument. Actually it is a variant of a known theme like the faked crap Sec. of State Collin Powell served up at the UN in early 2003 - Saddam Hussein has Weapons of Mass Destruction, and we have the (self-fabricated) proof here and here, let's get him. That's called self-fulfilling prophecy for the sake of the own agenda

So, let me see if I have this straight. Elder Maxson borrowed some of Mama Murphy's chems and predicted that the Institute would begin to experiment on supermutant which thereby forced the Institute to begin the program in order to comply with the prophecy. So the institute aren't doing it and anyway it's not their fault. Is that what you're saying? Or was it that Sec. of State Collin Powell was on drugs in 2003 and that was what started the inevitable chain of events. 'Cause that part isn't especially clear, if you don't mind me saying so.
 

All the BoS/Outcasts had to do was to spread the propaganda that the Super Mutants in the Commonwealth were unique products of the Institute, results of abductions, and by no means related to those in Capital Wasteland, imports by the BoS/Outcasts or Enclave remnants that is. Interestingly, the timeframe between Lone Wanderer and Sole Survivor correlates more or less to the assumed length of the FEV program by the Institute.

... and the glass tubes with the preserved supermutants are purely museum exhibits, and they're only protected by all those locks and turrets because the Institue believes really, really strongly in enforcing museum opening hours. That still leaves the problem of the cell block where it appears that test subjects, possibly children given the toys, have been kept while the FEV mutated them ... but I expect Elder Maxson planted that evidence just to demonize the institute.

 

They were failed subjects on the mutagenics program that only still exist because they dont know if its ok to have hybrids of humans and synths. BTW Father (real shaun) wasnt responsable for it the project started before the institute took him, his DNA was used to create the gen 3 and he care about them. he dont believe the gen 3 are human, but he believes hybrids would be (bullshit I know, theyre artificial humans, but still humans). the FEV experiment was an alternative for the gen3.
 

Maybe it is just a lousy understanding of the story, huh?

I think it's just a lousy story, to be honest.

 

the strory is pretty, good to me. The BOS want to rule the commonwealth in a facist way and IS using propaganda against rthe institute, but the insituite USED humans on his experiments, now they use gen3.

The institue dont kidnap people anymore, the people they "take" now are people theyre recruiting. The reson for the infiltrators is to get resources (scrap), intell and syphon energy (solved by the new reactor). How the fuck they suposed to build stuff without materials?

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe it is just a lousy understanding of the story, huh?

I think it's just a lousy story, to be honest.

 

As a curious nature I leave it at that. It is impossible to fill a cup that is already full.
Thanks for the entertaining conversation

I think is a great discussion, its hard to find people who discuss with reasonable arguments nowadays, you guys rock.
 

theres something else about the BOS that you forgot to comment, they beleieve their cause make them above everyone else...

This is because Maxson's splinter group of the BoS is consciously styled by Bethesda after the fascist military regimes in Europe of the 20th century (in the first place) - Hitler in Germany, Mussolini in Italy and Franco in Spain. They all felt chosen by history for being superior, exceptional and indispensable... and undermined and surrounded by nasty 'subhuman scum' that had allegedly taken away from them what was thought to be rightfully theirs, and theirs alone - the precious assets (in game, the technology) of all land within reach. Thus, there is no big difference between Hitler's order "Don't buy from Jews!" and Maxson's "Don't talk to Wastelanders!" Unsurprisingly, the Maxson Youth aboard the Hindenburg-like Prydwen is perfectly dressed up like the Hitler Youth of 1944/45. The only difference is the color of both field uniform and cap, the little German boys wore black... and died in it as child soldiers, I was told by US veterans.

 

Thats the the facists were the inspiration for maxon... The fuck actually took the chapter on a coup killing Sarah... RIP Lyons guar and  underworld ghoul citizens...

Fallout4 2016-01-04 14-50-38-95.PNG
 
At least, the Maxson faction in game could and did reproduce... for the victory.
Ad victoriam, Sieg Heil or whateva

 

 

 

[DocClox]

As a curious nature I leave it at that. It is impossible to fill a cup that is already full.

Thanks for the entertaining conversation

Likewise, I'm sure. I hope I wasn't getting too heated at the end there. My sense of humour tends to run away with itself sometimes

 

The commonwealth, but the isntitute hasnt created those supermutants. Viruses are cionstatnly mutating and creating new "version" by themselves, thats why theres no cure for the common flu  it mutates too fast and there are too many veriations. The reason behind the FEV lab in the instuttite was to cure supermutants (secondary objective) and to leran how to create mutagens, the fev lab was the origin of theyr mutagenic research and help to advance it.

 

Hmm...

 

It's a while now since I last played this sucker, and I'm not planning on resuming any time soon, so my memory may be faulty. Still, the wikia page more or less bears out my memory of events:

 

Dr. Brian Virgil was a member of the Institute at some point before 2287. He was working on an unknown project involving the Forced Evolutionary Virus and the creation of Super mutants in the BioScience Division. Overcome with guilt from the pain and suffering he had inflicted on innocent people, he decided to leave the Institute and end the FEV program. He then escaped to the Glowing Sea and infected himself with a unique strain of FEV to survive the high levels of radiation.

So why was he "Overcome with guilt from the pain and suffering he had inflicted on innocent people" if the Institute was only trying to do Good Things? And why order him killed if they're basically Good Guys?

 

When the lab was closed they had to find other ways to create mutagenics

That would have been about the time that the SS was thawed. Kellogg and synthShawn were in Diamond City trying to lure the SS up until Virgil's defection meant that Kellogg was reassigned. Those FEV experiments were going on for a long time...

 

, wich they still try to do, they were trying to find a way to make humans resistant to radiation and stronger. They dont need the mutagenics so much because they have gen 3 synths now, but whats the reason for he gen 3 and kid shaun (synth)? Evolution. They want to save humanity by evolving, they want to ascend beyond humanity, thats theyr goal, not to rule the commonwealth, not to change it, but to survive and prosper. If you read about the synth that married a scientist Eve you see that the reason for gen 3s, kid shaun, and the sterelity on most gen 3 it to see if hybrids are viable. Thats why father asks if you could love kid shaun as a real kid. after they see if synths can grow and adapt properly theyll reach theyr objective, enhance humanity.

Well ... if you buy into the Institute's propaganda without reservation, then maybe. Personally, I think there are too many false notes for that. Those cells adjoining the FEV labs did not look like happy places. And not just for all the dead kitties, either.

 

 

 

So you're suggesting what, then? That they've been shipping in mutants from the Capital Wasteland to study? And Virgil's memos in the FEV lab where he begs the Director to stop the experiments are based purely on the fact that it's cruel to the poor little supermutants, taking them out of their natural environment like that?

thats bullshit, viruses mutate by ther own. Dengue was a single disease 17 years ago, no there are 5 versions of it are you saind someone has been fcking south america by messing wih a virus on purpose? what about the ozens of versions of flu?

 

I'm not trying to be a dick here, but I don't see how that addresses the point in the paragraph you quoted. I'm not suggesting that FEV can't mutate. Although, since we're on the subject, where does the evolutionary pressure comes from for a virus whose infection vector is having its victims dipped in a tank? It's not like anyone gets a chance to develop antibodies or that medics are producing treatments against it.

 

But really, if the Institute aren't doing Bad Things with the FEV lab, why did Virgil get his knickers in a twist?

 

the strory is pretty, good to me. The BOS want to rule the commonwealth in a facist way and IS using propaganda against rthe institute, but the insituite USED humans on his experiments, now they use gen3.

For the record, I think all three of the factions are pretty shitty. The BoS are wannabe feudal overlords who've drifted so far from their initial objectives that their response to a new and unique technology is to nuke half a city. The Railroad have lost sight of everything apart from freeing synths and destroying the Institute and the Institute are B-Move Mad Scientists with plausible deniability.

 

That said, I still don't see why the BoS would need to conduct subtle PsyOps style propaganda campaigns on their own forces. All they have to do is stick up some posters saying "Synths Are Evil" and "The Institute Are Scum" and the BoS rank and file will go "Sir, yes Sir!" and "Ad Victoriam!" every time they see one. I'll grant that they game uses unreliable narrators throughout, but this seems like a bit of a stretch.

 

The institue dont kidnap people anymore, the people they "take" now are people theyre recruiting.

Hmm... tell that to Art. Or is it Art? One of them, anyway.

 

For that matter, where is Roger Warwick in the Institute? We know he's a recent replacement, so he should be there if it's a matter of recent policy. Probably the original Paladin Danse as well.

 

The reson for the infiltrators is to get resources (scrap), intell and syphon energy (solved by the new reactor). How the fuck they suposed to build stuff without materials?

 

There are entire abandoned factories and scrapyards on the commonwealth. The SS gets all the resources he or she needs to single-handedly rebuild the Commonwealth just by collecting TV dinner trays and dismantling old automobiles. Why is infiltration necessary?

 

For that matter, how does infiltration help? It's not like there are Institute salvage crews dismantling Diamond City on Mayor McDoughnut's say-so. There are no goods caravans bound for the Institute, and even if they were it's nothing that couldn't be traded for by conventional means, and the institute would be in position to create high value low resource trade goods if it wished. I don't think that will fly at all.

[protocolk]

comments in red, once again thanks for the interesting discussion.

 

As a curious nature I leave it at that. It is impossible to fill a cup that is already full.
Thanks for the entertaining conversation

Likewise, I'm sure. I hope I wasn't getting too heated at the end there. My sense of humour tends to run away with itself sometimes
 

The commonwealth, but the isntitute hasnt created those supermutants. Viruses are cionstatnly mutating and creating new "version" by themselves, thats why theres no cure for the common flu  it mutates too fast and there are too many veriations. The reason behind the FEV lab in the instuttite was to cure supermutants (secondary objective) and to leran how to create mutagens, the fev lab was the origin of theyr mutagenic research and help to advance it.

 

Hmm...

It's a while now since I last played this sucker, and I'm not planning on resuming any time soon, so my memory may be faulty. Still, the wikia page more or less bears out my memory of events:
 

Dr. Brian Virgil was a member of the Institute at some point before 2287. He was working on an unknown project involving the Forced Evolutionary Virus and the creation of Super mutants in the BioScience Division. Overcome with guilt from the pain and suffering he had inflicted on innocent people, he decided to leave the Institute and end the FEV program. He then escaped to the Glowing Sea and infected himself with a unique strain of FEV to survive the high levels of radiation.

So why was he "Overcome with guilt from the pain and suffering he had inflicted on innocent people" if the Institute was only trying to do Good Things? And why order him killed if they're basically Good Guys?

 

I never said theyre the good guys, the only real good guys are the minuteman, I ws just saing theyre not as evil as people believe theyre neutral, in the terminal virgil says hes against the hum,an tests with the FEV.
 

When the lab was closed they had to find other ways to create mutagenics

That would have been about the time that the SS was thawed. Kellogg and synthShawn were in Diamond City trying to lure the SS up until Virgil's defection meant that Kellogg was reassigned. Those FEV experiments were going on for a long time...

 

Yes, the experiment were happening for a shitload of time.
 

, wich they still try to do, they were trying to find a way to make humans resistant to radiation and stronger. They dont need the mutagenics so much because they have gen 3 synths now, but whats the reason for he gen 3 and kid shaun (synth)? Evolution. They want to save humanity by evolving, they want to ascend beyond humanity, thats theyr goal, not to rule the commonwealth, not to change it, but to survive and prosper. If you read about the synth that married a scientist Eve you see that the reason for gen 3s, kid shaun, and the sterelity on most gen 3 it to see if hybrids are viable. Thats why father asks if you could love kid shaun as a real kid. after they see if synths can grow and adapt properly theyll reach theyr objective, enhance humanity.

Well ... if you buy into the Institute's propaganda without reservation, then maybe. Personally, I think there are too many false notes for that. Those cells adjoining the FEV labs did not look like happy places. And not just for all the dead kitties, either.

 

Im not buying theyr propaganda, I know theyre not good, Im just saying theyre not evil either, theyre neutral.

 

 

So you're suggesting what, then? That they've been shipping in mutants from the Capital Wasteland to study? And Virgil's memos in the FEV lab where he begs the Director to stop the experiments are based purely on the fact that it's cruel to the poor little supermutants, taking them out of their natural environment like that?

thats bullshit, viruses mutate by ther own. Dengue was a single disease 17 years ago, no there are 5 versions of it are you saind someone has been fcking south america by messing wih a virus on purpose? what about the ozens of versions of flu?

 

I'm not trying to be a dick here, but I don't see how that addresses the point in the paragraph you quoted. I'm not suggesting that FEV can't mutate. Although, since we're on the subject, where does the evolutionary pressure comes from for a virus whose infection vector is having its victims dipped in a tank? It's not like anyone gets a chance to develop antibodies or that medics are producing treatments against it.
 
But really, if the Institute aren't doing Bad Things with the FEV lab, why did Virgil get his knickers in a twist?

 

because he was against the human tests, the FEV had over 100 years to mutate when the institute tests started, when you give hm the serum he says only works with 1 "version" of the virus. theyre were altering the virus to create mutagenics, but theyre not the origin of the commonwealth SM. the new tipes of SM theyr created died at the lab. Well they succeded at solving the low intelligence problem on theyr version at least.
 

the strory is pretty, good to me. The BOS want to rule the commonwealth in a facist way and IS using propaganda against rthe institute, but the insituite USED humans on his experiments, now they use gen3.

For the record, I think all three of the factions are pretty shitty. The BoS are wannabe feudal overlords who've drifted so far from their initial objectives that their response to a new and unique technology is to nuke half a city. The Railroad have lost sight of everything apart from freeing synths and destroying the Institute and the Institute are B-Move Mad Scientists with plausible deniability.

That said, I still don't see why the BoS would need to conduct subtle PsyOps style propaganda campaigns on their own forces. All they have to do is stick up some posters saying "Synths Are Evil" and "The Institute Are Scum" and the BoS rank and file will go "Sir, yes Sir!" and "Ad Victoriam!" every time they see one. I'll grant that they game uses unreliable narrators throughout, but this seems like a bit of a stretch.

 

I agree, but beth writers arent know for making lots of sense, there are so amny ways the MQ and factions could be better...
 

The institue dont kidnap people anymore, the people they "take" now are people theyre recruiting.

Hmm... tell that to Art. Or is it Art? One of them, anyway.

 

For that matter, where is Roger Warwick in the Institute? We know he's a recent replacement, so he should be there if it's a matter of recent policy. Probably the original Paladin Danse as well.

 

They dont kidnap anymore, theynjust kill them now.
 

The reson for the infiltrators is to get resources (scrap), intell and syphon energy (solved by the new reactor). How the fuck they suposed to build stuff without materials?

 
There are entire abandoned factories and scrapyards on the commonwealth. The SS gets all the resources he or she needs to single-handedly rebuild the Commonwealth just by collecting TV dinner trays and dismantling old automobiles. Why is infiltration necessary?

For that matter, how does infiltration help? It's not like there are Institute salvage crews dismantling Diamond City on Mayor McDoughnut's say-so. There are no goods caravans bound for the Institute, and even if they were it's nothing that couldn't be traded for by conventional means, and the institute would be in position to create high value low resource trade goods if it wished. I don't think that will fly at all.

 

They syphon energy and get intel, the gen 1 and 2 actually scap stuff, there are some places full of them and scrap (usually aluminium, theres a fish pack plant full of aluminium trays on the northeast thats also full of synths), the resources the

 

 

[DocClox]

comments in red, once again thanks for the interesting discussion.

No problem. Hope you don't mind me cutting the colors out again - it's a pain to close all those color tags on top of the quote ones is all.

 

I never said theyre the good guys, the only real good guys are the minuteman, I ws just saing theyre not as evil as people believe theyre neutral, in the terminal virgil says hes against the hum,an tests with the FEV.

 

Hmm... human FEV tests are pretty damn bad. I mean even if they're not releasing their failures onto the surface they're still infecting people to study the disease. There's quite a difference between looking for a cure by studying the structure of the virus, or examining those already infected and deliberately infecting people to better observe the pathology.

 

I mean Josef Mengele wanted to improve humanity as well, but that doesn't make him neutral.

 

because he was against the human tests, the FEV had over 100 years to mutate when the institute tests started, when you give hm the serum he says only works with 1 "version" of the virus. theyre were altering the virus to create mutagenics, but theyre not the origin of the commonwealth SM. the new tipes of SM theyr created died at the lab. Well they succeded at solving the low intelligence problem on theyr version at least.

I was fairly sure that Virgil complained that it was getting harder to think. I don't think they solved the problem; at best they slowed down the rate of intelligence loss. And since we don't know how fast intelligence degrades under normal circumstances, it's hard to be sure of even that.

 

And I'm still not clear on where the mutes are supposed to have come from, if not the Institute. I mean it's not as if it has an airborne vector; it's not like a supermutant walks into a bar in DC and sneezes, and everyone who says "gesundheit" turns green and stupid. It takes quite a lot of equipment to get a successful conversion. I'll grant the possibility of a new strain having an airborne vector - but even then it's not going to infect people at random, and the fact that the CW mutes keep looking for "green stuff" suggests that accidental infection still doesn't happen.

 

They dont kidnap anymore, theynjust kill them now.

 

That doesn't do much to improve their ethical standing, though. I mean they still (up until Virgil's departure) abduct people, if only as test subjects for FEV experiments, and they still kill and replace surface dwellers with synth duplicates.

 

They syphon energy and get intel

The intel they could get via conventional means. I mean the Railroad, BoS and Minutemen all manage and they don't have an elite force of super-tough operatives with built-in stealth capability. The power siphon ... how does that work, anyway? I doubt the power grid is in good enough shape to divert power from DC to CIT ruins. Hell looking at the banks of power units in the basement of a lot of places, I doubt it was ever in that good a shape. It's not like you can run a heavy duty powerline across half of Boston without someone noticing, and nothing we've seen suggests they can use broadcast power, much less remote leeching. And even if they could do that, why would it need infiltration?

 

the gen 1 and 2 actually scap stuff, there are some places full of them and scrap (usually aluminium, theres a fish pack plant full of aluminium trays on the northeast thats also full of synths), the resources the

My point exactly. No one needed to be killed and replaced to harvest those resources. OK, a few raiders or molerats probably got shot, but I doubt anyone needed replacing.

[protocolk]

red, red never changes

 

comments in red, once again thanks for the interesting discussion.

No problem. Hope you don't mind me cutting the colors out again - it's a pain to close all those color tags on top of the quote ones is all.
 

I never said theyre the good guys, the only real good guys are the minuteman, I ws just saing theyre not as evil as people believe theyre neutral, in the terminal virgil says hes against the hum,an tests with the FEV.

 
Hmm... human FEV tests are pretty damn bad. I mean even if they're not releasing their failures onto the surface they're still infecting people to study the disease. There's quite a difference between looking for a cure by studying the structure of the virus, or examining those already infected and deliberately infecting people to better observe the pathology.

 

yup, theyre assholes. with good intention, but still assholes.

I mean Josef Mengele wanted to improve humanity as well, but that doesn't make him neutral.
 

good point

because he was against the human tests, the FEV had over 100 years to mutate when the institute tests started, when you give hm the serum he says only works with 1 "version" of the virus. theyre were altering the virus to create mutagenics, but theyre not the origin of the commonwealth SM. the new tipes of SM theyr created died at the lab. Well they succeded at solving the low intelligence problem on theyr version at least.

I was fairly sure that Virgil complained that it was getting harder to think. I don't think they solved the problem; at best they slowed down the rate of intelligence loss. And since we don't know how fast intelligence degrades under normal circumstances, it's hard to be sure of even that.

And I'm still not clear on where the mutes are supposed to have come from, if not the Institute. I mean it's not as if it has an airborne vector; it's not like a supermutant walks into a bar in DC and sneezes, and everyone who says "gesundheit" turns green and stupid. It takes quite a lot of equipment to get a successful conversion. I'll grant the possibility of a new strain having an airborne vector - but even then it's not going to infect people at random, and the fact that the CW mutes keep looking for "green stuff" suggests that accidental infection still doesn't happen.

 

the institute also dont know were they come from, i dont think anyone knows, maybe itll be explained on a DLC... or not, lazy writers.
 

They dont kidnap anymore, theynjust kill them now.

 
That doesn't do much to improve their ethical standing, though. I mean they still (up until Virgil's departure) abduct people, if only as test subjects for FEV experiments, and they still kill and replace surface dwellers with synth duplicates.
 

They syphon energy and get intel

The intel they could get via conventional means. I mean the Railroad, BoS and Minutemen all manage and they don't have an elite force of super-tough operatives with built-in stealth capability. The power siphon ... how does that work, anyway? I doubt the power grid is in good enough shape to divert power from DC to CIT ruins. Hell looking at the banks of power units in the basement of a lot of places, I doubt it was ever in that good a shape. It's not like you can run a heavy duty powerline across half of Boston without someone noticing, and nothing we've seen suggests they can use broadcast power, much less remote leeching. And even if they could do that, why would it need infiltration?

 

No idea, probaly trogh the power of inconsistency andf lazy writing they magically send power to the institute. Also I agre that using infiltrators to get intell is kind of dumb. My guess is that theyr genes make the extremily inteligent, but inbreeding makes them as wise as a potato,they have great invention with retarded uses.
 

the gen 1 and 2 actually scap stuff, there are some places full of them and scrap (usually aluminium, theres a fish pack plant full of aluminium trays on the northeast thats also full of synths), the resources the

My point exactly. No one needed to be killed and replaced to harvest those resources. OK, a few raiders or molerats probably got shot, but I doubt anyone needed replacing.

 

 

 

[Zor2k13]

I don't like the way that synths are portrayed in this game or the BoS either. I don't keep up with the entire lore of fallout and don't care to since I had a really shitty experience with fallout 3 and nv.

 

The story for synths is really stupid, what they could have done is went in a more ghost in the shell direction with some ability to move a human consciousness into a digital brain. Then make a body for it to use and the body design progresses from basic to more realistic over their history. The reason for doing this would be obviously to survive the radiation and transition into a radiation free body and somehow rebuild humanity after a post apocalyptic event. There would also be AI development to make worker units to help the humans in many ways and some way to fix the FEV virus blah blah aka virgil.

 

There could have been a faction splinter group of the institute that split off some time ago and they began to replace people with AI copies that did whatever they said in order to manipulate human settlements on the surface. The idea of synth tech being used by humans on the surface would not be a bad thing such as prosthetic limb replacements etc. and some humans wandering around as converted to a digital brain and housed in gen2 bodies saving up money for a gen3 body and so on.

 

The BoS could be less retarded when it comes to synths and have an understanding that the splinter group is at fault for things instead of the institute. They could be on the hunt for that group instead of trying to just kill all synths but they could be a bit power hungry and intent on taking over major settlements or at least gaining some political power and installing their order to some extent into the world. Danse could still be a synth replacement but the twist would be that while he was captured he somehow managed to upload his consciousness into the replacement AI body so the splinter group thinks he is AI and the BoS thinks he is AI but he is really himself. He would still be outcast and there would be a quest related to finding and destroying the splinter group where danse and maxson both accompany the player to do that. At some point they find danse body in some cryo storage with some kind of proof that he did transfer out just before his body died and then some BoS techs later confirm it with some tests that maxson asks him to take.

 

 

 

The whole factions to the extreme shit in this game is really annoying and they could have done it not so extreme and put some details in there to tell a better story. Tim russ plays a great role in this game and I hate that his talents are kind of wasted on such shitty writing for an otherwise interesting faction.

 

 

To answer the question of can robots have babies that could be done with nanotech but the whole alternate world 50s theme doesn't really allow for that so we would have to assume that the gen3 bodies as I described above would be somehow very organic and contain a record of the original dna from the user that was downloaded into the body so any children they have will be from their actual dna and look like them, be related to them. Technology could be used to help humanity survive a post apocalyptic event and rid themselves or radiation after several generations of the worst affected cases transferring and giving birth. Eventually some far point in the future say after the half life of all the nuke explosions is expired, the tech stuff is more of a different story than just about survival it could go so many different ways just look at all the stories from ghost in the shell movies and tv shows it is very interesting stuff.

[Halstrom]

red, red never changes

Red on black is one of the least visible combinations for many vision impaired people.................