Playing as an Abolitionist

[700 Tnega Terces]

I've noticed that there are quite a lot of different slavery mods floating about, but none that add a realistic abolitionist system. I'd like to be able to add slaves (like hydragorgon's Slave Girls) specially so that I can go around freeing them. Some massive 'fight the evil slaver's league' quest would be nice, but isn't really necessary. Just a simple, find a slave, kill the slave's masters/buy the slave/steal the slave, escort the freed slave to the nearest abolitionist underground, setup is all I really want.

For the 'you are now free' portion, it would be nice if the freed slave knelt at my feet and showered me with thanks and praise (I know nothing about animation), after which I'd be like 'thanks, that's nice, but stand up like a freewoman/freeman', then lead them to the nearest town and the local head of the underground pathways (aka ‘railroad’), with the final option to take them on as a follower after they spend time at the slavery recovery camp (this is nothing more than a fade-to-black-and-back, no one really goes anywhere, and the ex-slave is now ready to be your follower). Oh yeah, did I mention there’s a secret slave recovery camp somewhere? For those that you do ask an ex-slave to come back and be a follower, part of their training at the recovery camp included how to escape from any Devious Device. So not only will any suggestion to use one result in them attacking you until they are knocked unconscious or your health drops below a certain threshold, but any attempt to do so will fail equally spectacularly. Same goes for attempting to rape/humiliate them, with repeated attempts of any type resulting in them leaving you permanently (if you wanted sex slaves, why in the world did you free them?!?).

While I’m not opposed to an abolitionist destroy-the-slavers quest, as Jayleia pointed out, the Dragonborn is busy fighting a lot of seriously bad dudes, and may not really have time to take on yet ANOTHER enemy. So taking the freed slaves to whatever town I was already headed for and dropping them off there is much more convenient. Oh, and no, you don't get any money for turning over a freed slave to the underground pathways. This is a charity folks!

This mod would mainly be an abolitionist framework so that other mods with slaves could easily add and abolitionist option to their mods. This mod provides the various secret abolitionists (they should all be called "X of the Path") in every settlement to collect freed slaves (and who always have a ready supply of free cheap clothing!), the mechanics to free a slave by 1) killing the slave's masters, 2) buying the slave, or 3) stealing the slave, and the dialogue for the slave to offer themselves up to the PC. Since slavery is legal, options 1 and 3 should result in some sort of bounty on the PC, but only when they could have logically been observed killing or stealing by someone who'd have the reason and ability to report them (no getting ratted out by the slave you freed, or your noble steed!).



I don't have a working PC right now, so if someone wants to make this mod, great! If someone just wants to do part of this, that's fine as well. You could:

• Populate the world with the abolitionist leaders in all the towns and villages (please give me a list of which cities you do cover along with the file).
• Implement the free-the-slave radiant quest start with options 1, 2, and 3 (option two should include some clear line about how you're just buying the slave to then free them, so it's clear it'll start the free-the-slave radiant quest). No need for quest markers (after all, you should know where the slave is, and there's multiple underground pathway hideouts to take them to.)!
• Do the dialogue for speaking to the slave to free them and lead them to the underground pathways.
• Write the special follower code to make them attack you if you try to treat them like their old masters did.

Anyone willing to work on one or more of these points would be greatly appreciated!

[Swiftstep]

That idea is nothing new to the Elder Scrolls universe - if my memory serves me well, you could free slaves in Morrowind, and get their shackles in return (but I can't recall what you could use them for). Meaning there is an immersive & lore-friendly aspect in your idea.

[Rorschach666]

i also like the idea, give me a few more incentives and i would eventually contribute the textures / models.

[700 Tnega Terces]

i also like the idea, give me a few more incentives and i would eventually contribute the textures / models.

 

Incentives like what?  And textures / models for what?  There's already plenty of slavery and BDSM stuff out there to provide 'atmosphere' and an appropriately beaten and abused slave in desperate need of rescue...

 

 

 

As for added content in general, I was also thinking that after you've freed X slaves and if you're in the Dark Brotherhood, you could start getting radiant quests from former slaves to go kill/enslave their old masters (always a generic NPC).  I know I said I don't like sexual slavery, but a) nothing says that that is the only type of slavery available for them (and I don't have a problem with manual labor slavery, IF said slaves are treated like human beings with rights to the basic necessities of life - honestly, what is imprisonment but profitless slavery?!?), and slavers aren't people, they're scum, so 'decency to people' rules don't apply to them (or 'everyone deserves to reap what they've sown'). }:-]

[Rorschach666]

....then take "plenty of slavery and bdsm stuff" for your slave models

[D_ManXX2]

 people' rules don't apply to them (or 'everyone deserves to reap what they've sown'). }:-]

 

 

Well doesn't that statement make you just as bad as they are ?? 

[700 Tnega Terces]

 

 people' rules don't apply to them (or 'everyone deserves to reap what they've sown'). }:-]

 

 

Well doesn't that statement make you just as bad as they are ?? 

 

 

I say no, because a) I wouldn't be doing it to them, I'd just be letting it happen, and it's justice, like the difference between murder and the death penalty (not that I'm implying anything about the death penalty here, mainly because I don't want to get off topic!).

....then take "plenty of slavery and bdsm stuff" for your slave models

 

Okay, but if you have any ideas, please share them!

[Delzaron]

Yeap, could be a nice little mod for LL...

 

1: introduction quest : player will face slave and a slver, and will make a choice.

2: if player is not slave or slaver, player is approched by some abolitionists (Vigilants of Stendar, Penitus oculatus, priests ?) and will receive the tools to free slaves.

3: main quest : advance by freing slaves.

4 : ideas : fights against slavers (so, it will need pluggins to destroy slavers guilds in Skyrim : slaverun reloaded for example : find proof against the jarl, remove the slavers support, ambush their carts, kill them, free the slaves).

Maybe you could recycle Dark investigation quest line...

[700 Tnega Terces]

Yeap, could be a nice little mod for LL...

 

1: introduction quest : player will face slave and a slver, and will make a choice.

2: if player is not slave or slaver, player is approched by some abolitionists (Vigilants of Stendar, Penitus oculatus, priests ?) and will receive the tools to free slaves.

3: main quest : advance by freing slaves.

4 : ideas : fights against slavers (so, it will need pluggins to destroy slavers guilds in Skyrim : slaverun reloaded for example : find proof against the jarl, remove the slavers support, ambush their carts, kill them, free the slaves).

Maybe you could recycle Dark investigation quest line...

 

I'm mostly interested in plugins or some sort of framework for other mods so that I can go in and free the slaves they have.  Creating an abolitionist specific quest would be a bonus/secondary goal.  In fact, I've already seen one mod that I think would make a great abolitionist start/chapter/side quest.  Still, you've got some good ideas!  I think I'll send Kenjoka of Slaverun Reloaded a PM to ask for more/better abolitionist quests (currently it seems that if you're a strong female PC you can turn the tables on the Slavers, but I want something for both sexes that doesn't make you become a de facto slaver yourself). I also just checked out Dark Investigations (which I think is a female designed quest, rather than something more gender neutral), and I'm not sure I want something dark like that.  I'm opposed to rape and don't want to see it happen, even (or especially?!?) to my self in a quest to end slavery.   I think the darkest I'd want would be to bust in on some slavers raping their latest cargo...maybe....

[Jayleia]

Hmm...while my characters USUALLY aren't "rescue all the slave-girls" types...some would be just as happy to buy them for their own purposes, or others just don't care (Skyrim is a harsh and cruel place, those not strong enough should be happy that their captors didn't just kill them), but most will do good deeds if asked...or if offered a reward.

 

However, after recent events in the Captured Dreams quest line, the characters that have gone through that HATE the Thalmor and will cheerfully go after any Thalmor they meet...and since you meet them a lot on the road with prisoners, this could work in that instance as well, even if they let slave caravans go by.

 

I definitely like the small-scale of rescuing individual captives more than stopping a grand slaver's guild (I have a civil war, the resurrection of the most powerful Dragon Priest and a world-eating DRAGON GOD to deal with and a Vampire Lord trying to kill the SUN I do NOT need a slaver's guild to deal with now).

 

Though I'd make slaves in your mod distinct from hydragorgon slaves...maybe yours have chatter begging for the slavers to let them have more time to pay them back, or begging to at least let them see their (child/wife/husband/parent) one more time, this would have more dramatic effect AND indicate that they're "rescueable" in the context of your mod.

[dryuya]

If this mod gets made I'll very much enjoy the next mod that comes around that let's you kill the abolitionist who's threatening to free your slaves!

[Rorschach666]

 

 

Okay, but if you have any ideas, please share them!

 

 

be original.

 

 

 

I'm mostly interested in plugins or some sort of framework for other mods so that I can go in and free the slaves they have. 

 

so you basically want to combine objective A from mod 1 with npc'(s) B from mod 2 (both already existing)?

...then just ask the people who created the mods for help if you dont want to do anything from scratch.

[FauxFurry]

Skywind, if it really is released next year, will be a massive,full conversion mod that allows Morrowind's setting and plot to be usable with Skyrim's engine and as such, there will be abolitionism abound. It is something that I always enjoyed doing in Morrowind especially when playing Khajiit or Argonian.

Come to think of it, Interesting NPCs does have Prompt-But-Bashful The Lusty Argonian Maid Valet whose 'services' can be purchased then left to her(?) own devices or freed outright and a quest to rescue a slave but it isn't a full-on abolition mod.

[700 Tnega Terces]

 

Okay, but if you have any ideas, please share them!

 

be original.

 

 

I intend to!  But I might not think of something Really Cool, or  Really Simple...

 

 

I'm mostly interested in plugins or some sort of framework for other mods so that I can go in and free the slaves they have.

 

so you basically want to combine objective A from mod 1 with npc'(s) B from mod 2 (both already existing)?

...then just ask the people who created the mods for help if you dont want to do anything from scratch.

 

I already am!

[windpl]

Thing is, I HATE the idea of sexual slavery and BDSM.

 

 

 For the 'you are now free' portion,

 

 it would be nice if the freed slave knelt at my feet and showered me with thanks and praise (I know nothing about animation), after which I'd be like 'thanks, that's nice, but stand up like a freewoman/freeman',

 

then - after some gender checks - the option to have sex, and lastly the option to take them on as a follower, or dismiss into the wild blue yonder of freedom.

 

From moral stand point, this is even worse than sexual slavery or even  leads to it.

So I'm finding your view point confusing.

 

[spoonsinger]

I think all the mechanics are already around if you squint.

 

Hydra slave girls for slavers and slaves.

Big swords - for various slaver killing action

I'll take the display model - for taking those slaves to a nice safe place

Soulgem Oven 3 - for putting the freshly freed slaves to work

Sweet rolls (standard game item I think) - for wages.

 

Don't really see the problem.

 

(ps was there any follow up mods to addlHq?)

 

 

[windu190]

 

Thing is, I HATE the idea of sexual slavery and BDSM.

 

 

 For the 'you are now free' portion,

 

 it would be nice if the freed slave knelt at my feet and showered me with thanks and praise (I know nothing about animation), after which I'd be like 'thanks, that's nice, but stand up like a freewoman/freeman',

 

then - after some gender checks - the option to have sex, and lastly the option to take them on as a follower, or dismiss into the wild blue yonder of freedom.

 

From moral stand point, this is even worse than sexual slavery or even  leads to it.

So I'm finding your view point confusing.

 

 

 

I was raising an eyebrow as well. Having sex with someone who was kept as a sex slave and was most likely raped many times sounds... morally questionable. Even if offered, the slave probably isn't thinking clearly, especially if he/she has been enslaved, raped and abused for a long period of time. 

 

[700 Tnega Terces]

 

then - after some gender checks - the option to have sex, and lastly the option to take them on as a follower, or dismiss into the wild blue yonder of freedom.

 

From moral stand point, this is even worse than sexual slavery or even  leads to it.

So I'm finding your view point confusing.

 

 

 

I think your missing the psychological dynamics of such a situation.  First, people don't change in an afternoon.  Telling someone who's spent years, if not their entire life, in slavery that they're free isn't going to make them immediately start behaving like a free person.  The human mind is an amazingly complex and twisty.  When faced with horrendous conditions, it can find 'comfort' in the most bizarre of places.  Like being a model, well behaved, slave.  Thus, having a freed slaves first reaction be that of an unfreed slave is completely rational.  Besides which, just exactly how IS said freed slave going to show their appreciation anyways?  Give me their chains (I never did figure out what I was supposed to do with those in Morrowind)?!  Write me an IOU with the pen and paper they don't have so they can magically find me later and give me pounds of gold they stole from a leprechaun?   All they have, and more importantly, all they know how to use, is their body, whether this be as a devoted follower, or just a quick roll in the hay.

 

Most importantly, though, is WHY they'd be doing this, and it most definitely is not 'worse than sexual slavery or even leads to it'.  Because they WANT TO.  For the first time in who knows how long, they finally have rights to and over their own body, and even if their first instinct is to fall back on old, bad, habits, it's still a world of difference because it's THEIR CHOICE, not something that is being forced upon them.  See my request to Fishburger67 about adding an abolitionist alternative to his sex slave mod.  Even though my 'freed slaves' behave ALMOST EXACTLY like their enslaved originals, there is a profound underlying difference.   And that difference is freedom of choice, noting more, nothing less.  But, to me at least, that makes all the difference in the world.

 

Besides, lets not forget that this is Lover's Lab, so cheesy sex is almost obligatory!   Though, in fairness to your point, it IS entirely possible for some devious individual to use a freed slaves twisted mentality against them to re-enslave them.  Though what the point would be in freeing a slave just so that you could re-enslave them would be, I haven't the foggiest idea.  And that's certainly NOT what I'm suggesting here!

[700 Tnega Terces]

I was raising an eyebrow as well. Having sex with someone who was kept as a sex slave and was most likely raped many times sounds... morally questionable. Even if offered, the slave probably isn't thinking clearly, especially if he/she has been enslaved, raped and abused for a long period of time.

 

I agree, you do have a point (in fact, it's similar to the one I just raised, se above)!  I suppose my response is a) do I HAVE to be as pure as the driven snow?  I TRY to be a good guy, I don't swear that I'll always succeed against every temptation... "this is Lover's Lab, so cheesy sex is almost obligatory!", and c) see my request to Fishburger67 about adding an abolitionist alternative to his sex slave mod.  Is this the best way to help a recovering sex slave?  Almost certainly not.  Is this the most logical and lore friendly way in a medieval world that hasn't invented therapists and psychologists?  Probably.  And while I DON'T believe that the ends justify the means, so long as you do reach the specified ends without permanently hurting anyone, isn't that the most important thing?  So long as the freed slaves learn to be free and productive members of society, I'm NOT going to castigate myself for having sex with them (Note: assume that whole 'learn to be free and productive members of society' thing happens off screen for the most part.  Fishburger67's mod is the only one I foresee for now as having the potential to actual go through the whole process, and only if he feels like putting that level of work into it, which I wouldn't blame him if he didn't).

 

Edit: Also, my 'kink' is giving my partner as much pleasure as I can manage, so I'd like to think that any freed slave would get a good lesson on how sex OUGHT to be....

[windpl]

 

I was raising an eyebrow as well. Having sex with someone who was kept as a sex slave and was most likely raped many times sounds... morally questionable. Even if offered, the slave probably isn't thinking clearly, especially if he/she has been enslaved, raped and abused for a long period of time.

 

I agree, you do have a point (in fact, it's similar to the one I just raised, se above)!  I suppose my response is a) do I HAVE to be as pure as the driven snow?  I TRY to be a good guy, I don't swear that I'll always succeed against every temptation... "this is Lover's Lab, so cheesy sex is almost obligatory!", and c) see my request to Fishburger67 about adding an abolitionist alternative to his sex slave mod.  Is this the best way to help a recovering sex slave?  Almost certainly not.  Is this the most logical and lore friendly way in a medieval world that hasn't invented therapists and psychologists?  Probably.  And while I DON'T believe that the ends justify the means, so long as you do reach the specified ends without permanently hurting anyone, isn't that the most important thing?  So long as the freed slaves learn to be free and productive members of society, I'm NOT going to castigate myself for having sex with them (Note: assume that whole 'learn to be free and productive members of society' thing happens off screen for the most part.  Fishburger67's mod is the only one I foresee for now as having the potential to actual go through the whole process, and only if he feels like putting that level of work into it, which I wouldn't blame him if he didn't).

 

Edit: Also, my 'kink' is giving my partner as much pleasure as I can manage, so I'd like to think that any freed slave would get a good lesson on how sex OUGHT to be....

 

 

You mentioned morality so I found it surprising.

And you know that in ancient Grace most of slaves were self made slaves by contract? And were better off than being poor non/citizens and had actual law status and were protected by it. Just in later years slave were degraded due to wars and new philosophy (arystotele).

[Soaryne]

I like the idea of freeing slave i come across in mod like Hydra slave girls. 

 

A simple way you can start making the mod is to use think what already are in the game or other mod.

 

You have have a mod that add the quest even use in the vilina game uses on the tholmor and imperial poisoner doe the save in Hydra slave girls. Where you have the option to free then, or free then and give then a gear.

If they survive you get the option to have then talk to you with dialog letting you choose to have sex, accept thanks only, oh gave there devious device item that you can sell at shop add by capture dream or curse loot. 

 

I way you can then make it more interesting. Then have some of the slave maybe turn on you like they where bandits and have fake slaves to attack you where they try to kill you instead or put a report you as if you committed murder as a way to set you up afterwards.

All of this you can set up as different add on even to the Hydra slave girls mod.

 

All are things that mod and the vilina game already have script made for them plus add both good and bad outcome for your actions making the player ask themself is the risk worst it and is the slave really a slave your saving or are you being set up by the slavers?

[700 Tnega Terces]

 

 

I was raising an eyebrow as well. Having sex with someone who was kept as a sex slave and was most likely raped many times sounds... morally questionable. Even if offered, the slave probably isn't thinking clearly, especially if he/she has been enslaved, raped and abused for a long period of time.

 

I agree, you do have a point (in fact, it's similar to the one I just raised, se above)!  I suppose my response is a) do I HAVE to be as pure as the driven snow?  I TRY to be a good guy, I don't swear that I'll always succeed against every temptation... "this is Lover's Lab, so cheesy sex is almost obligatory!", and c) see my request to Fishburger67 about adding an abolitionist alternative to his sex slave mod.  Is this the best way to help a recovering sex slave?  Almost certainly not.  Is this the most logical and lore friendly way in a medieval world that hasn't invented therapists and psychologists?  Probably.  And while I DON'T believe that the ends justify the means, so long as you do reach the specified ends without permanently hurting anyone, isn't that the most important thing?  So long as the freed slaves learn to be free and productive members of society, I'm NOT going to castigate myself for having sex with them (Note: assume that whole 'learn to be free and productive members of society' thing happens off screen for the most part.  Fishburger67's mod is the only one I foresee for now as having the potential to actual go through the whole process, and only if he feels like putting that level of work into it, which I wouldn't blame him if he didn't).

 

Edit: Also, my 'kink' is giving my partner as much pleasure as I can manage, so I'd like to think that any freed slave would get a good lesson on how sex OUGHT to be....

 

 

You mentioned morality so I found it surprising.

And you know that in ancient Grace most of slaves were self made slaves by contract? And were better off than being poor non/citizens and had actual law status and were protected by it. Just in later years slave were degraded due to wars and new philosophy (arystotele).

 

 

Yeah, I've no problem with manual labor slavery myself, IF the slaves are treated as human beings with rights to the basic necessities of life (which includes no mental/emotional abuse).  Really, what is imprisonment but profitless slavery (no, I am NOT opening the door to a discussion on modern prison systems.  Fair warning, I will ignore you)!  Oh, and please give me feedback on my revised first post!

 

 

Thing is, I HATE the idea of sexual slavery and BDSM.

 

 

 For the 'you are now free' portion,

 

 it would be nice if the freed slave knelt at my feet and showered me with thanks and praise (I know nothing about animation), after which I'd be like 'thanks, that's nice, but stand up like a freewoman/freeman',

 

then - after some gender checks - the option to have sex, and lastly the option to take them on as a follower, or dismiss into the wild blue yonder of freedom.

 

From moral stand point, this is even worse than sexual slavery or even  leads to it.

So I'm finding your view point confusing.

 

 

 

I've gone and redone my original post, and while I don't want to endlessly debate anything. I'd love to get some feedback what you think about it!

[700 Tnega Terces]

I like the idea of freeing slave i come across in mod like Hydra slave girls. 

 

A simple way you can start making the mod is to use think what already are in the game or other mod.

 

You have have a mod that add the quest even use in the vilina game uses on the tholmor and imperial poisoner doe the save in Hydra slave girls. Where you have the option to free then, or free then and give then a gear.

If they survive you get the option to have then talk to you with dialog letting you choose to have sex, accept thanks only, oh gave there devious device item that you can sell at shop add by capture dream or curse loot. 

 

I way you can then make it more interesting. Then have some of the slave maybe turn on you like they where bandits and have fake slaves to attack you where they try to kill you instead or put a report you as if you committed murder as a way to set you up afterwards.

All of this you can set up as different add on even to the Hydra slave girls mod.

 

All are things that mod and the vilina game already have script made for them plus add both good and bad outcome for your actions making the player ask themself is the risk worst it and is the slave really a slave your saving or are you being set up by the slavers?

 

Good point about selling the DD used on the slave.  Of course, you could also use it on a slaver, after all, turn about is fair play!  As for the idea of having some slaves turn on you or actually be slavers, I think that's something that belongs in a full-fledged abolitionist quest.  I don't want to muddy up the waters for general slave rescuing.  Besides, that sounds more like a organized and calculated effort, which speaks to me of the slavery organization becoming aware of your actions, which brings you into conflict with the slave league as a whole, which again is an abolitionist quest mod.

[proxy86]

 

I think your missing the psychological dynamics of such a situation.  First, people don't change in an afternoon.  Telling someone who's spent years, if not their entire life, in slavery that they're free isn't going to make them immediately start behaving like a free person.  The human mind is an amazingly complex and twisty.  When faced with horrendous conditions, it can find 'comfort' in the most bizarre of places.  Like being a model, well behaved, slave.  Thus, having a freed slaves first reaction be that of an unfreed slave is completely rational.  Besides which, just exactly how IS said freed slave going to show their appreciation anyways?  Give me their chains (I never did figure out what I was supposed to do with those in Morrowind)?!  Write me an IOU with the pen and paper they don't have so they can magically find me later and give me pounds of gold they stole from a leprechaun?   All they have, and more importantly, all they know how to use, is their body, whether this be as a devoted follower, or just a quick roll in the hay.

 

Most importantly, though, is WHY they'd be doing this, and it most definitely is not 'worse than sexual slavery or even leads to it'.  Because they WANT TO.  For the first time in who knows how long, they finally have rights to and over their own body, and even if their first instinct is to fall back on old, bad, habits, it's still a world of difference because it's THEIR CHOICE, not something that is being forced upon them.  See my request to Fishburger67 about adding an abolitionist alternative to his sex slave mod.  Even though my 'freed slaves' behave ALMOST EXACTLY like their enslaved originals, there is a profound underlying difference.   And that difference is freedom of choice, noting more, nothing less.  But, to me at least, that makes all the difference in the world.

 

Besides, lets not forget that this is Lover's Lab, so cheesy sex is almost obligatory!   Though, in fairness to your point, it IS entirely possible for some devious individual to use a freed slaves twisted mentality against them to re-enslave them.  Though what the point would be in freeing a slave just so that you could re-enslave them would be, I haven't the foggiest idea.  And that's certainly NOT what I'm suggesting here!

 

 

 

Sounds like a interesting idea. Some suggestions that I think some others have pointed out though and that I agree with:

 

1. If you are making this mod yourself, then you can always update the mod with new ideas later on. Alternatively, if you are simply grabbing X from Mod A and Y from mod B and asking the authors of those mods to do the work, you should probably be clear in what you are looking for but also suggest what would require the least amount of time from them to get the fundamentals of what you are looking for in this mod.

 

2. Why would you be looking for a freed slave to "show appreciation" in the first place? There seem to be two separate concepts getting mixed up in the function of this mod. One is this mod allowing you to free slaves. The other is a reward system (you mentioned sex) after said slave is "freed". As far as the first function, that's cool. I don't think anyone has an issue with that. Your second point seems contradictory in that on the one hand, you argue that its the freed slave's own "choice", but is it? You just said that their years of conditioning and abuse doesn't "change and go away over night". ut how can it be "free choice" if this said conditioning is still lingering in their mind so heavily?

 

3. This leads me to my last suggestion. If you want functionality for the "reward" system, your reasoning for wanting this mod is completely irrelevant to be honest. I think some people are raising their eyebrows at what could be seen as trying to take a moral high ground on loose soil. I'd just leave your OG post at what you are looking for in this mod. No need to provide reasoning or justification (especially if you aren't looking for a debate). It will also clean up that daunting giant wall of text that greets you when you open up this thread.

 

Cheers,

Proxy

[windpl]

 

I've gone and redone my original post, and while I don't want to endlessly debate anything. I'd love to get some feedback what you think about it!

 

 

It is more of question like "What would Jesus do"

I'm a bit confused because once you are using morality as it was in that (setting/era ect) and on other time you are using our recent knowledge.

From 3thid perspective, it would be just slave changing master. As fort sex with rescuer about doing it by free will, you just said that he/she was conditioned by years of servitude - so accepting it would be morally evil.

 

As if it was better for slave, it is question of sort:

Would you rather be a happy fool, or a unhappy wise man?