Devious Devices - Equip (LE)

[Inte]

Aw, thank you guys for the support.
Now I feel pretty bad for pulling my mods the way I did. For that I apologize to all my supporters (yes, I know there are more than 3 of you, I forgot about @Punga ). I promise this will not happen again, these mods are yours as well as mine (Many of you contributed ideas, testing and suggestions.).

I will summarize the main point of all of this. 

First and foremost I will not be bullied by anyone in doing anything I do not want to do.
I opened a discussion saying that I introduced a certain option (by request) in the next version of DDe, and before I could formulate my reasons and/or open a discussion about it, I was verbally attacked and threatened with blacklisting and ‘a coding war’ (as @Punga put it) that I couldn’t possibly win because a certain someone had control of the framework. I’ve got news for you sweetheart, a .esp (DDe) will always have the last word in such a ‘war’ as it is loaded after the .esm (DDi).  

Since I could not discuss and/or resolve this like adults with our ‘leader’ I will listen and follow the suggestions posted in this here thread instead.
The DDe MCM option to remove the quest items will stay! However I will make it way harder to activate it. The option will be behind a password and it will require the player to search my code for it. This will assure that the quest items can only be removed by users that really, REALLY want them removed and/or would have removed them regardless of the existence of this option in DDe. Also it has been suggested that this option be explained in layman’s terms. There are no less than 3; that’s right 3 popup message boxes that need to be read and accepted before the option becomes available.  This is the concession I’ve made in the absence of proper communication between all concerned. If this will get this mod blacklisted ... so be it! See if I care.
 
BTW: I am still open to discuss this further in a civilized manner.

[Morferous]

Nice to see you back, Inte.

[Inte]

 

[zaira]

You can check if a certain object reference is referenced by an alias - then it is most likely a quest item - then you can display a warning that removing could affect quest.GetName()

just see ObjectReference documentation - the quests can be enumerated 

[Inte]

You can check if a certain object reference is referenced by an alias - then it is most likely a quest item - then you can display a warning that removing could affect quest.GetName()

just see ObjectReference documentation - the quests can be enumerated 

 

Not that kind of quest items. These are a special DD quest items identified by a keyword.

[zaira]

This shall be changed by DDi - Papyrus and SKSE provides special handling for quest items. Makes more sense in my opinion - keywords could be used additionally to provide more information about the nature of a quest item.

if a quest depends on an item the item is a quest item

If an item is not a quest item - how shall anybody take care about it...

[Guest]

Awesome so glad too see you're back this is definitely one of my favorite mods    , I respect your decision to stick with your guns and agree with your right too do so I think your solution to this problem is going above and beyond and should serve as "the solution" to this particular problem.

[Inte]

 

This shall be changed by DDi - Papyrus and SKSE provides special handling for quest items. Makes more sense in my opinion - keywords could be used additionally to provide more information about the nature of a quest item.

if a quest depends on an item the item is a quest item

If an item is not a quest item - how shall anybody take care about it...

 

That makes sense, but they are not quest items in the true sense of the word, at least I don't think they are.

[Guest]

also when you said the password requires to search your code do you mean the psc file?

[zaira]

Kimy said that at least one of her quests gets broken by unexpected item removal - so it definitely shall be a quest item. 

Real world items are a little bit more complicated to handle because they can only be equipped after their 3D model has been loaded. I spawn them behind the player and immediately equip them after their models are loaded...

[Inte]

Awesome so glad too see you're back this is definitely one of my favorite mods    , I respect your decision to stick with your guns and agree with your right too do so I think your solution to this problem is going above and beyond and should serve as "the solution" to this particular problem.

 

Yes, but it's not ideal.

On one hand, the quest items do not get removed while in jail which is something we want, apparently. 

But in the other hand this will drastically limit the available animations, something not desirable. It will also eliminate the pillory scenario. 

Say, that gives me an idea, if the player has any quest items while in jail - all I would have to do is skip the pillory scenario. Yes that could work.

 

I must say, this is way more productive than threats and egotistical statements.    

also when you said the password requires to search your code do you mean the psc file?

 

Why yes it is.

[Guest]

xD lol well I am glad that DD quest items dont interrupt what I think arresting is kinda inherent to the game itself and that shouldn't be interrupted thats just how i see it and if you're me you don't try to actively get arrested because i know the grave consequences ^^ and I would hate to kinda of just be let off the hook with some alternative slap on the wrist as kimy suggested earlier.

 

looking at your code is making my brain hurt its too smart for me D: I did manage to find the messageboxes you wrote in your script gave me a chuckle lol is it near there? because i can't tell whats apart of the code and whats a password tbh lol

[Inte]

Kimy said that at least one of her quests gets broken by unexpected item removal - so it definitely shall be a quest item. 

Real world items are a little bit more complicated to handle because they can only be equipped after their 3D model has been loaded. I spawn them behind the player and immediately equip them after their models are loaded...

 

So I understand you correctly, when you say quest items you are referring to the game's own quest items. The only vanilla items that cannot be dropped from the inventory.

Because it is my understanding that DD quest items are not those. They just have a keyword marking them as a 'Don't touch me' item.  

[zaira]

A password barrier is strange and still leaves the player in the dark. Quest items allow you to show the affected quest to the player. From my point of view it is legitim to remove non-quest items as this is what will happen in the vanilla jail quest too.

[Inte]

xD lol well I am glad that DD quest items dont interrupt what I think arresting is kinda inherent to the game itself and that shouldn't be interrupted thats just how i see it and if you're me you don't try to actively get arrested because i know the grave consequences ^^ and I would hate to kinda of just be let off the hook with some alternative slap on the wrist as kimy suggested earlier.

 

looking at your code is making my brain hurt its too smart for me D: I did manage to find the messageboxes you wrote in your script gave me a chuckle lol is it near there? because i can't tell whats apart of the code and whats a password tbh lol

 

Well I rather not say.

I will change what I wrote in those message boxes, as I was still angry with @Kimy then.  

[zaira]

You can turn every item into a quest item - but you have to spawn an instance of such an item in the real world - an alias can only refer to object references.

[Guest]

understandable but in the code can the password perhaps be in a comment?  I have notepad++ and see those options in green. like   ; this is the password "blah blah" 

 

I wont type it here or anything xD

[Inte]

A password barrier is strange and still leaves the player in the dark. Quest items allow you to show the affected quest to the player. From my point of view it is legitim to remove non-quest items as this is what will happen in the vanilla jail quest too.

 

I know its not an ideal solution at all. But I kinda want the option available in DDe, but I only want those who know what they are doing to use it. Hence the password is hidden inside the code. Well, not really hidden - a moder will know exactly where to look for it.

understandable but in the code can the password perhaps be in a comment?  I have notepad++ and see those options in green. like   ; this is the password "blah blah" 

 

I wont type it here or anything xD

 

No it is not in the comments.

 

EDIT: I didn't realize that players will take this as a challenge to find it. I didn't really hide it per se.    

[Guest]

its like where's waldo all over again xD ..........i'll find him.

[Inte]

Good luck!

EDIT: You'll have a laugh when you do find it.  

[crazyduck]

True this Password is hmm funny and would never ever be bruteforced

[Mister X]

So, you're sure it's not complicated to find said Password?

[Sarge Misfit]

"Since I couldn’t think of anything to put in the message boxes, for now I just filled them with some BS about the save being broken"

 

Great. So, if a player hasn't read the Changelog and gets such a message, what do you think their reaction will be?

[bicobus]

If it is at all possible to detect wether or not the keywords exists on items before listing them in the MCM, I would rather have two lists in two different MCM window. The first would only list the regular DD items, that can be "safely" removed. The second list would contain nothing but the quests items, but if a quest item is found on the player then the MCM menu would only display this text: "Follow the rabbit...", with an input just bellow. The input being there for the password.

 

And to add a little more humor to the whole thing, put this cuteness just above the password in the code:

                
                            /|      __  
                           / |   ,-~ /  
                          Y :|  //  /    
                          | jj /( .^  
                          >-"~"-v"  
                         /       Y    
                        jo  o    |  
                       ( ~T~     j   
                        >._-' _./   
                       /   "~"  |    
                      Y     _,  |      
                     /| ;-"~ _  l    
                    / l/ ,-"~    \  
                    \//\/      .- \  
                     Y        /    Y*  
                     l       I     ! 
                     ]\      _\    /"\ 
                    (" ~----( ~   Y.  )   
            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~    

[Kimy]

I will post this message to Inte here too, so the general population can see what's going on:

 

Inte - look, I get your point of view. You explained it to me. I accepted it and still do. Please don't think that I demand you rewriting large portions of POP. I am not. I want to work with you, if you let me. I -did- make this new keyword mainly for YOU, to dramatically reduce the amount of DD items marked as "don't touch me". To the degree that there are barely any left. You can now safely remove more than 95% of all DD items I am aware of. Is it -really- that much asked for that you bring in a check for these last few items and then do just something else. I am sure the law has options to punish somebody other than standard POP scenes. I agree that just letting her go is not satisfactory, but how about the other things I suggested? Adding even more restraints? Taking away a larger portion of her money? Making her do errands? Making her provide "other favours". This circumstance will happen really -rarely- so, because the keyword is supposed to be used sparingly. I can offer to bring in yet another DD keyword to allow modders to mark quest items as "ok for temporary removal as long as they are are put back on after the scene", which might further bring down problematic items.

 

I am sure there is -something- we can work out that doesn't include breaking each other's mods, or giving users unsafe and dangerous options to do just that, no? The one thing from my end that totally not negotiable is removing zad_QuestItem marked items for any reason ever, including disguised as "user choice". To me, that's the same thing as declaring our mods incompatible and I am still determined to do everything in my power to try and protect these items from getting removed by anybody except the mod that equipped them. Everything else we can work on and I am offering my help with it.