TheOzoneHole Posted August 26, 2015 Posted August 26, 2015 Not really related to anything else, other than Fallout naturally.
Arhon Posted August 27, 2015 Posted August 27, 2015 Why was the content axed? Gamebryo 2.0 Totally-new-never-seen-before Creation Engine started having seizures or did they simply ran out of time? I suppose you can blame the consoles for that. The engine for Skyrim was made to work with consoles, and consoles only can do so much. If there's something in a game that goes beyond the capabilities of a console, you have no choice but to remove it. Which is why you never make games that can be modded on consoles and then later port over a broken version of the game on PC.
Galacticat42 Posted August 29, 2015 Posted August 29, 2015 So I guess even Bethesda wants to see a working 'BU', but they made it family friendly. Cuz robots. lol, Is it sad that BU is the first thing that came to mind when I saw that pic?
SpotEnemyBoats Posted August 29, 2015 Posted August 29, 2015 Shame that FO4 mods will be heavily moderated, say goodbye to lewd mods.
Sacremas Posted August 29, 2015 Posted August 29, 2015 Shame that FO4 mods will be heavily moderated, say goodbye to lewd mods. Unless they introduce some mod-based DRM where mods have to pass through Bethesda.net to be able to be put in your game - which they won't - then this only apply if you are playing on consoles, so expect SexOut for Fallout 4 to show up in other words. You might see less lewd on the Nexus though.
ElectricSheep Posted August 29, 2015 Posted August 29, 2015 Not really related to anything else, other than Fallout naturally. More like:
Guest Real Posted August 29, 2015 Posted August 29, 2015 The moral of the story behind that is, we don't want Fallout 4 to be like Skyrim where joining every faction is okay. Basically taking the role of everything which isn't really roleplaying as one. And since some people forget that the Skyrim team also had some development with this game, for some of us who think Skyrim is not an RPG because of said reasons above and a page back, it does raise concerns. We have no idea what they came in to do. And if it was the quests, yeah... not looking forward to being a limitless character. Warning: The Pitt spoiler ending. Read at your own risk. Now, if they introduce you to a way to betray the current faction you pertain to, and join the other, I'm perfectly okay with that as long as it has some negative impact on the faction you used to be in. NPCs calling me a traitor etc.. The reason why The Pitt was my favorite DLC was for that reason. I had a decision to make. Save and free the slaves, or not kidnap a new born that was the cure to their sickness. Of course it was a very tough decision and I ended up betraying Werhner instead because I couldn't find it in me to steal a child from her own mother. Just wasn't right to me. And those are the consequences and actions that make a real RPG. The role of who and how you will be. The reputation you hold on both ends because lets face it, you can't please everyone. It just doesn't work that way, but it did in Skyrim. It's unknown if Fallout 4 will have positive/negative impact on faction armor as it did in New Vegas. I don't recall seeing or hearing anything about that. Doesn't matter to me either way. I never wore NCR or Legion armor. I did wear Great Khan armor because it looked cool to me. And I don't think Raider armor was included as faction armor. None of the factions in Skyrim were ideologically opposed. There were all some form of luke warm grey.. The fault here, I believe, is a lack of compelling story development. If you could join say the vigilantes of stendarr and the companions while blatantly worshiping a daedra, I might think it was a little weird, but unfortunately the only one of these things you could do in Skyrim was join the companions. Skyrim is still an rpg though, I've done some roleplaying as a badass doing badass things. But yeah, don't feel like being a badass? =/ Woefully there isn't much infrastructure for anything else. But really, if the developers want to let people do what they want, I don't see the harm. Just because I can join everyone, doesn't mean I will. That's part of roleplaying. I don't need their rules to define my imagination, and frankly I don't want them.
TheOzoneHole Posted August 29, 2015 Posted August 29, 2015 The moral of the story behind that is, we don't want Fallout 4 to be like Skyrim where joining every faction is okay. Basically taking the role of everything which isn't really roleplaying as one. And since some people forget that the Skyrim team also had some development with this game, for some of us who think Skyrim is not an RPG because of said reasons above and a page back, it does raise concerns. We have no idea what they came in to do. And if it was the quests, yeah... not looking forward to being a limitless character. Warning: The Pitt spoiler ending. Read at your own risk. Now, if they introduce you to a way to betray the current faction you pertain to, and join the other, I'm perfectly okay with that as long as it has some negative impact on the faction you used to be in. NPCs calling me a traitor etc.. The reason why The Pitt was my favorite DLC was for that reason. I had a decision to make. Save and free the slaves, or not kidnap a new born that was the cure to their sickness. Of course it was a very tough decision and I ended up betraying Werhner instead because I couldn't find it in me to steal a child from her own mother. Just wasn't right to me. And those are the consequences and actions that make a real RPG. The role of who and how you will be. The reputation you hold on both ends because lets face it, you can't please everyone. It just doesn't work that way, but it did in Skyrim. It's unknown if Fallout 4 will have positive/negative impact on faction armor as it did in New Vegas. I don't recall seeing or hearing anything about that. Doesn't matter to me either way. I never wore NCR or Legion armor. I did wear Great Khan armor because it looked cool to me. And I don't think Raider armor was included as faction armor. None of the factions in Skyrim were ideologically opposed. There were all some form of luke warm grey.. The fault here, I believe, is a lack of compelling story development. If you could join say the vigilantes of stendarr and the companions while blatantly worshiping a daedra, I might think it was a little weird, but unfortunately the only one of these things you could do in Skyrim was join the companions. Skyrim is still an rpg though, I've done some roleplaying as a badass doing badass things. But yeah, don't feel like being a badass? =/ Woefully there isn't much infrastructure for anything else. But really, if the developers want to let people do what they want, I don't see the harm. Just because I can join everyone, doesn't mean I will. That's part of roleplaying. I don't need their rules to define my imagination, and frankly I don't want them. Honestly I think that part of the problem with Skyrim (though I see this in a lot of more recent games) is that there is a fixed ending for almost all the quest lines. Dark Brotherhood in Skyrim is about the only one with two choices; wipe them out when you first meet them or finish the quest line. (This discounts simply stopping doing anything with the quests, but I wouldn't really call that a "final" decision.) I have never liked the way that Beth built up the main quest and the player being Dragonborn and then the entire end-game of the Theives guild is the player selling their soul to a Daedra. I'm not a fan of the almost forced start to the quest either, even Oblivion did that guild better. (Fuck it, Oblivion did almost all the guild quests better.) Conversely, if I've got a complaint with the questing in Fallout 3, it is that they kept it localized almost entirely to the D.C. ruins and the lower half of the map. While New Vegas isn't really all that great (as compared to FO1, FO2, or FO3; when compared to FO:Tactics or FO:BoS its amazing), Obsidian at least made people walk across the majority of the map and find the little side quests and localized issues that are a big part of what the earlier Fallout games were about. That is the kind of thing that Beth needs to get right with FO4. They came close with Point Lookout; it had a different feel than the Capitol Wasteland did, and that made a nice change of pace from "gray bomb crater...gray destroyed building...super mutant...gray bomb crater...gray destroyed building...super mutant" that comprised the main game.
SpotEnemyBoats Posted August 29, 2015 Posted August 29, 2015 Shame that FO4 mods will be heavily moderated, say goodbye to lewd mods. Unless they introduce some mod-based DRM where mods have to pass through Bethesda.net to be able to be put in your game - which they won't - then this only apply if you are playing on consoles, so expect SexOut for Fallout 4 to show up in other words. You might see less lewd on the Nexus though. I wouldn't be surprised if Bethesda.net is actually an attempt to control user generated content. Especially say an outfit from another game or adult content. They've even talked about bringing back paid mods, which already fractured the modding community. Not really related to anything else, other than Fallout naturally. More like: more like
windpl Posted August 29, 2015 Posted August 29, 2015 I wouldn't be surprised if Bethesda.net is actually an attempt to control user generated content. Especially say an outfit from another game or adult content. Ohhh, it is sole purpose of it. Mainly it would look like this. Pc mod ->Bethesda.net->paywall->consoles. It is only question of time when paywall will be introduced.
Leito86 Posted August 30, 2015 Posted August 30, 2015 I wouldn't be surprised if Bethesda.net is actually an attempt to control user generated content. Especially say an outfit from another game or adult content. Ohhh, it is sole purpose of it. Mainly it would look like this. Pc mod ->Bethesda.net->paywall->consoles. It is only question of time when paywall will be introduced. Look at GTA V. No official mod support, but if there's a will, there's a way. Bethesda.net is likely only a console thing where as PC users can get their stuff at the usual places along with the new site.
RitualClarity Posted August 30, 2015 Posted August 30, 2015 I have no problem if they introduce a pay wall for a new game provided they introduce it along with the modding tools. The problem with their introduction before was they did it with a mature modding community built around the game already. They even went so far as to admit that was wrong when they removed that option.
Sacremas Posted August 30, 2015 Posted August 30, 2015 If Bethesda would sponsor Falskaar-type teams to make huge mods, then put them behind a paywall, I'd have no issues with it at all. I'm just not seeing that happen.
NickNozownik Posted August 30, 2015 Posted August 30, 2015 Hopefully it won't be Skyrim with guns. I don't really trust any trailers or interviews, they will always tell you that this game is going to be absolutely 10000/10 majestic fantastic and you can be anyone you want, you'll have oh-so-many choices, there are countless innovative designs. And then we get something like Oblivion. As for the paid mods, I am willing to pay for a big mod that adds something more than a gun and few pieces of armour (unless I really, really like it), but only if the mod description is very detailed. It tells exactly what it changes, every single edit is on the list. It is quite important for a heavily modded game. Mod author must provide help if something goes wrong because someone paid real money to use his stuff. Sassy and overly sarcastic comments is something that he or she should leave at the door.
Sacremas Posted August 30, 2015 Posted August 30, 2015 Thing that a lot of modders looking to cash in on modding dont' realize fully is that if we pay for their mods, they become suppliers of a product and responsible for that, not hobbyists putting out thigns we're expected to fix ourselves if it doesn't work for our system. They become responsible that the mod will work, and sets themselves up to troubleshoot and help countless stupid downloaders for managing tiny errors not their fault even. I don't think there are many modders willing to do that, not for what little they get back from it. If it's a free mod then the modder can just say "hey you don't have to use my mod, it's not your right it's your privilige, and if it doens't work for you then I'm under no obligation to fix it for you either, move on to the next or learn to mod" but as soon as a price tag is added they loose that right entirely. I'm kinda dreading mods for consoles, becuase those guys don't have any of the tools that we use to make mods compatible with each other, it's a near guarantee that mods will break their game entirely. Either Bethesda have to make that a fucking needle-head to get through and for absolute quality and compatibility to be shown, or it's going to fail badly. Or they release xEdit and Wrye Bash and a good mod manager and whatever else is needed like a FNIS or whatever for consoles as well.
windpl Posted August 30, 2015 Posted August 30, 2015 Thing that a lot of modders looking to cash in on modding dont' realize fully is that if we pay for their mods, they become suppliers of a product and responsible for that, not hobbyists putting out thigns we're expected to fix ourselves if it doesn't work for our system. They become responsible that the mod will work, and sets themselves up to troubleshoot and help countless stupid downloaders for managing tiny errors not their fault even. I don't think there are many modders willing to do that, not for what little they get back from it. If it's a free mod then the modder can just say "hey you don't have to use my mod, it's not your right it's your privilige, and if it doens't work for you then I'm under no obligation to fix it for you either, move on to the next or learn to mod" but as soon as a price tag is added they loose that right entirely. I'm kinda dreading mods for consoles, becuase those guys don't have any of the tools that we use to make mods compatible with each other, it's a near guarantee that mods will break their game entirely. Either Bethesda have to make that a fucking needle-head to get through and for absolute quality and compatibility to be shown, or it's going to fail badly. Or they release xEdit and Wrye Bash and a good mod manager and whatever else is needed like a FNIS or whatever for consoles as well. Im quiet sure that Bethesda.net with paymod will have some sort of community quality assurance. Where reviewers will get some sort of compensation, of course not monetary because bugsheda is to way greedy for that (their 45%+ even split, anyone?) but some sort of points that will stay in their system.
TheOzoneHole Posted August 30, 2015 Posted August 30, 2015 I have no problem if they introduce a pay wall for a new game provided they introduce it along with the modding tools. The problem with their introduction before was they did it with a mature modding community built around the game already. They even went so far as to admit that was wrong when they removed that option. Valve admitted it was wrong, the House that Todd built....yeah, not happening. And even adding the paywall to FO4 (while I expect it) would still piss off a lot of people, as the modding community between TES and FO has a large overlap and modding for Fallout goes back ~9 years. Thing that a lot of modders looking to cash in on modding dont' realize fully is that if we pay for their mods, they become suppliers of a product and responsible for that, not hobbyists putting out thigns we're expected to fix ourselves if it doesn't work for our system. They become responsible that the mod will work, and sets themselves up to troubleshoot and help countless stupid downloaders for managing tiny errors not their fault even. I don't think there are many modders willing to do that, not for what little they get back from it. If it's a free mod then the modder can just say "hey you don't have to use my mod, it's not your right it's your privilige, and if it doens't work for you then I'm under no obligation to fix it for you either, move on to the next or learn to mod" but as soon as a price tag is added they loose that right entirely. I'm kinda dreading mods for consoles, becuase those guys don't have any of the tools that we use to make mods compatible with each other, it's a near guarantee that mods will break their game entirely. Either Bethesda have to make that a fucking needle-head to get through and for absolute quality and compatibility to be shown, or it's going to fail badly. Or they release xEdit and Wrye Bash and a good mod manager and whatever else is needed like a FNIS or whatever for consoles as well. Im quiet sure that Bethesda.net with paymod will have some sort of community quality assurance. Where reviewers will get some sort of compensation, of course not monetary because bugsheda is to way greedy for that (their 45%+ even split, anyone?) but some sort of points that will stay in their system. BethSoft and "quality assurance"? We are talking about the same company here, right? The company who keep releasing massive games filled with bugs that require the modding community to patch out just to make the game come down to the level of being playable?
windpl Posted August 30, 2015 Posted August 30, 2015 I have no problem if they introduce a pay wall for a new game provided they introduce it along with the modding tools. The problem with their introduction before was they did it with a mature modding community built around the game already. They even went so far as to admit that was wrong when they removed that option. Valve admitted it was wrong, the House that Todd built....yeah, not happening. And even adding the paywall to FO4 (while I expect it) would still piss off a lot of people, as the modding community between TES and FO has a large overlap and modding for Fallout goes back ~9 years. Thing that a lot of modders looking to cash in on modding dont' realize fully is that if we pay for their mods, they become suppliers of a product and responsible for that, not hobbyists putting out thigns we're expected to fix ourselves if it doesn't work for our system. They become responsible that the mod will work, and sets themselves up to troubleshoot and help countless stupid downloaders for managing tiny errors not their fault even. I don't think there are many modders willing to do that, not for what little they get back from it. If it's a free mod then the modder can just say "hey you don't have to use my mod, it's not your right it's your privilige, and if it doens't work for you then I'm under no obligation to fix it for you either, move on to the next or learn to mod" but as soon as a price tag is added they loose that right entirely. I'm kinda dreading mods for consoles, becuase those guys don't have any of the tools that we use to make mods compatible with each other, it's a near guarantee that mods will break their game entirely. Either Bethesda have to make that a fucking needle-head to get through and for absolute quality and compatibility to be shown, or it's going to fail badly. Or they release xEdit and Wrye Bash and a good mod manager and whatever else is needed like a FNIS or whatever for consoles as well. Im quiet sure that Bethesda.net with paymod will have some sort of community quality assurance. Where reviewers will get some sort of compensation, of course not monetary because bugsheda is to way greedy for that (their 45%+ even split, anyone?) but some sort of points that will stay in their system. BethSoft and "quality assurance"? We are talking about the same company here, right? The company who keep releasing massive games filled with bugs that require the modding community to patch out just to make the game come down to the level of being playable? Well I did wrote that they will make others to do it ;D
ElectricSheep Posted August 31, 2015 Posted August 31, 2015 Skyrim was a barely playable clusterfuck for weeks after its release. Bethsoft forums were burning in total chaos with a list of like 700 bugs going rounds. If Steam refunds happened prior to Skyrim release, it's likely it would escalate into Arkham Knight kind of situation. Which is why this time they took months to actually test their product. Or at least so they claim.
Sorinade Posted August 31, 2015 Posted August 31, 2015 I don't remember any game breaking bugs with skyrim on PC at launch, I played 200 hours within the first 2 weeks after launch (which i never plan to do again, as I then didn't touch Skyrim again that year). Only bugs I encountered were minor, like quest items you couldn't get rid of after handing in the related quest (console to the rescue), bad grammer in chat options - that sort of thing. Got high hopes for Fallout 4, but I refuse to pre-order anything anymore after Elder scrolls online. So if they have to take fallout 4 down after launch to fix it, i guess i'll end up waiting.
TheOzoneHole Posted September 1, 2015 Posted September 1, 2015 I did pre-order, but that is mostly so that I can just go the the midnight release as soon as I get done work. Saves me the time of running and getting it the next day, I can get it installed, get at least a little way into the story but be able to go to bed and still make it to the department meeting the next day without looking like I stayed up all night.
aqqh Posted September 1, 2015 Posted September 1, 2015 I don't remember any game breaking bugs with skyrim on PC at launch, I played 200 hours within the first 2 weeks after launch (which i never plan to do again, as I then didn't touch Skyrim again that year). Only bugs I encountered were minor, like quest items you couldn't get rid of after handing in the related quest (console to the rescue), bad grammer in chat options - that sort of thing. Got high hopes for Fallout 4, but I refuse to pre-order anything anymore after Elder scrolls online. So if they have to take fallout 4 down after launch to fix it, i guess i'll end up waiting. personally its not bugs that i worry about. Its poor game mechanics. Poor balance. Plain moronic ideas. Skyrim is full of those. Fallout 3 had some of those as well. I would love to believe that FO4 would be free of those... but lets be realistic - it wont. It gets fixed by installing proper mods but... It would take time for those mods to be created. So most likely i wont buy fo4 until decent modding environment would be established for it. I would be quite surprised it that would take less than a year.
Sorinade Posted September 1, 2015 Posted September 1, 2015 Can't argue with that I'll probably play it close to launch if it works, then look to play again when more mods exist (or maybe even have a try at creating mods/models).
Coopervane Posted September 1, 2015 Posted September 1, 2015 It gets fixed by installing proper mods but... It would take time for those mods to be created. And this time there's a chance we'll have to buy those mods from Bethesda.net, just to add that extra value to that 60 dollar game we just bought, if they decide to go that way with it. I'm hoping no, but time will tell..
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