Prison Overhaul Patched (LE)

[jfraser]

So, how about it?

 

Bump!

what are you bumping?

[Inte]

Bug Report and a "Problem" Feature

 

1/ Bug - I was having a problem with a repeat visit to Dawnstar jail so did a forced reset. When I got back to Whiterun there was a stray PO BH so looks like that is what is producing them. I then tried another forced reset but the BH remained though it did not appear to produce another one. Minor issue as they're easy enough to zap.

 

2/ Problem Feature - not really a bug but could be nasty with the wrong mods. After I was released from Dawnstar jail the Jail Master says "I have a surprise for you" and fits the pc with devices from a previous visit. In this case it was a CD collar and belt but as that quest had already been completed the devices cannot be removed except by using a quest reset in CD. Is there a way to stop this, if not it really needs a toggle to switch it off as it doesn't seem a good idea to have to reset other mods to remove stuff.

 

EDIT: Thought I'd best add some details on the CD issue, it was late last night when I posted the above.

 

My first arrest was in Dawnstar where I'd handed myself in to a guard, I wasn't wearing any devices. My second arrest was by BH's and I was taken to Wildhelm. Now my memory is a bit flaky here, but I think I had just made a CD delivery to Winterhold when the BH turned up and took me to Wildhelm so I think I was wearing the CD belt and collar. Unfortunately my memory is a bit hazy as I was probably drunk (or going senile). I'm still using CD v3.84 btw.

 

I have POP set to NOT remove devices so that it only removes standard DD stuff but it seems like it's remembered that I had the devices fitted previously and then added them to me after I completed my third jail term back again in Dawnstar (poor old Betild had an "accident" with an arrow in the back - oops)

 

I will look into the CD issue.

The BH issue, try and do a reset in Whiterun and see if they disappear. They spawn by the smithy.

 

 

You could possibly do something like what Maria Eden does with having shackles applied. 

 

The bit I don't like about how ME applies the shackles is that it looks too voluntary. (The PC turns around submissively and allows her captor to shackle her.)  

Thinking about it now tho, that could work when the player submits through dialog. Since I seldomly submit to an arrest I never thought to do that.

I'll look into that if I get enough requests for it, for I would probably never use it.

 

I like the 'ninja' arrests too much.

Just walking along being almighty, when I hear that blasted green ball flying through the air behind me. Next thing I know I'm all bound and helpless on the floor and completely under the BH's control.

 

 

So, can you add that submitting through dialog option for POP 8s? 

The PC turning around and allowing to be shackled would be more immersive that the "aggressive" green ball, no?

 

 

 

Ok, ok, you've talked me into it. I'll add that in POP 8s.

when i get arrested i get the vanilla imprionment and the text say: "guard of riften can't arrest you for rift"

 

I would need a log.

Any chance you'd consider adding in heretical restraints as an option? They're really fit the mood of the mod well. Especially the new prisoner chains, or a nice scolds bridle.

 

Thanks!

 

If you mean in jail then, eventually yes but only through DDe.

​For the trip to jail, you can make your own custom HR outfit in DDe and choose that in the POP MCM.  

[Inte]

 

 

I have a problem with the arrest scene. The guard casts a spell that puts a number of devices on my character(hood, arm and leg binds) and then my character is forced into a pose. At this point, if I haven't enabled "guards have fun before travel" in MCM, he will just stand there forever after taking my gold, and nothing happens. I have to enable "guards have fun" and get the scene before he will drag me to prison.

 

This must mean that the problem is with POP. Is there a fix for this? Or is there a way to disable the "arrested by spell" feature? I don't think it's immersive that guards can cast spells.

 

Ok, I will test this.

Thanks for the bug report.

 

IDK, if M'aiq can cast spells shouldn't the guards?

 

Guards are usually Nords, and it shown incredibly often that Nords really don't like magic, of any sort.

 

 

If you have a better idea how to immersively and forcefully incapacitate the PC during the arrest I am all ears ... eyes?   

[Code Serpent]

 

 

 

I have a problem with the arrest scene. The guard casts a spell that puts a number of devices on my character(hood, arm and leg binds) and then my character is forced into a pose. At this point, if I haven't enabled "guards have fun before travel" in MCM, he will just stand there forever after taking my gold, and nothing happens. I have to enable "guards have fun" and get the scene before he will drag me to prison.

 

This must mean that the problem is with POP. Is there a fix for this? Or is there a way to disable the "arrested by spell" feature? I don't think it's immersive that guards can cast spells.

 

Ok, I will test this.

Thanks for the bug report.

 

IDK, if M'aiq can cast spells shouldn't the guards?

 

Guards are usually Nords, and it shown incredibly often that Nords really don't like magic, of any sort.

 

 

If you have a better idea how to immersively and forcefully incapacitate the PC during the arrest I am all ears ... eyes?   

 

Smack her in the face to knock her out?

 

Actually, there is an idle animation, called IdlePrisonerBeat in the Creation Kit, that plays a very harsh right hook that could work for dialogue or melee arrest scenes.

[Inte]

 

 

 

 

I have a problem with the arrest scene. The guard casts a spell that puts a number of devices on my character(hood, arm and leg binds) and then my character is forced into a pose. At this point, if I haven't enabled "guards have fun before travel" in MCM, he will just stand there forever after taking my gold, and nothing happens. I have to enable "guards have fun" and get the scene before he will drag me to prison.

 

This must mean that the problem is with POP. Is there a fix for this? Or is there a way to disable the "arrested by spell" feature? I don't think it's immersive that guards can cast spells.

 

Ok, I will test this.

Thanks for the bug report.

 

IDK, if M'aiq can cast spells shouldn't the guards?

 

Guards are usually Nords, and it shown incredibly often that Nords really don't like magic, of any sort.

 

 

If you have a better idea how to immersively and forcefully incapacitate the PC during the arrest I am all ears ... eyes?   

 

Smack her in the face to knock her out?

 

Actually, there is an idle animation, called IdlePrisonerBeat in the Creation Kit, that plays a very harsh right hook that could work for dialogue or melee arrest scenes.

 

 

Ok, let me be more specific. Something that can immersivelly incapacitate a 'godlike' being. 

Right hooks and melee attacks will not work on someone that can yell weapons into Oblivion.      

[Code Serpent]

 

Ok, let me be more specific. Something that can immersivelly incapacitate a 'godlike' being. 

Right hooks and melee attacks will not work on someone that can yell weapons into Oblivion.      

 

Um, if your character is 'godlike' then the standard guards probably shouldn't be able to handle her in the first place.

 

Maybe after a certain level some bounty hunters or equivalently overpowered mercenaries start patrolling the cities. Being specialists in dealing with overpowered magical creatures, they shouldn't have any issues with casting spells to bind a misbehaving dragonborn.

[Inte]

 

 

Ok, let me be more specific. Something that can immersivelly incapacitate a 'godlike' being. 

Right hooks and melee attacks will not work on someone that can yell weapons into Oblivion.      

 

Um, if your character is 'godlike' then the standard guards probably shouldn't be able to handle her in the first place.

 

Maybe after a certain level some bounty hunters or equivalently overpowered mercenaries start patrolling the cities. Being specialists in dealing with overpowered magical creatures, they shouldn't have any issues with casting spells to bind a misbehaving dragonborn.

 

 

No the guards do not have to 'handle' her, the magical spell does that.

 

So the answer is to fire all the guards because they cannot learn one simple spell?

[Code Serpent]

 

 

Ok, let me be more specific. Something that can immersivelly incapacitate a 'godlike' being.

Right hooks and melee attacks will not work on someone that can yell weapons into Oblivion.

 

Um, if your character is 'godlike' then the standard guards probably shouldn't be able to handle her in the first place.

 

Maybe after a certain level some bounty hunters or equivalently overpowered mercenaries start patrolling the cities. Being specialists in dealing with overpowered magical creatures, they shouldn't have any issues with casting spells to bind a misbehaving dragonborn.

No the guards do not have to 'handle' her, the magical spell does that.

 

So the answer is to fire all the guards because they cannot learn one simple spell?

No, it's not that they can't learn magic, it's that they don't want to. As I've said, Nords are generally suspicious of magic, and view it as underhanded or dishonorable.

 

Also, we don't need to fire the guards just because they can't take out a demigod one on one. That's a very unreasonable employment policy.

 

Perhaps if you get the 'stand fast' force greet from the guards, and try to resist arrest, a guard would have managed to get behind you and knock you out from behind. In scripting terms it would just be a fade out to black, and a message pop up, and you wake up in chains.

 

It's not hard to believe that a well aimed mace or fist could knock out the dragonborn. Just because she has dragon blood doesn't make her skull any thicker.

[bicobus]

By the way, any of you ever went to the cloud district? Oh what am I saying, of course you didn't, it isn't a place for unrefined individuals such as yourselves. For some reasons, every Jarls spend their entire days on a throne and they never move from it unless if it is to go to sleep. Another funny bit is that anybody can just walk up to any jarl at any time, even in the middle of a civil war.

 

But a guard using magic to subdue a high-class criminal? Maybe they should have warmages instead or something, but in no point I find it immersion breaking because the freaking world doesn't make sense.

[benimaru0603]

thank you for your great works, Inte!

 

PO is my favorite mod and your patches make it better and better.

 

sorry for my bad english, but i think i've found a problem. in my newest game, i got a bounty in riverwood before i went to whiterun, so when i reached there i tried to submit to the gate guard of whiterun. The gurad arrested me as normal, but never remove my hood and take me to the jail, so i got stuck there forever...all i can do is load a save and play again. this time, after i entered whiterun and came out, i tried to submit to the same guard again, and this time everything works fine.it seems like one must discover whiterun first to acces the dragonsreach dungeon, otherwise he\she will get stucked...

 

is there any method to avoid this? coz this really break the immersion of this mod......

[Fredfish]

Would it be possible to get compatibility with FISS (http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/48265/?) for those of us that are forever starting new games?

 

[Punga]

 

 

 

Ok, let me be more specific. Something that can immersivelly incapacitate a 'godlike' being.

Right hooks and melee attacks will not work on someone that can yell weapons into Oblivion.

Um, if your character is 'godlike' then the standard guards probably shouldn't be able to handle her in the first place.

 

Maybe after a certain level some bounty hunters or equivalently overpowered mercenaries start patrolling the cities. Being specialists in dealing with overpowered magical creatures, they shouldn't have any issues with casting spells to bind a misbehaving dragonborn.

No the guards do not have to 'handle' her, the magical spell does that.

 

So the answer is to fire all the guards because they cannot learn one simple spell?

No, it's not that they can't learn magic, it's that they don't want to. As I've said, Nords are generally suspicious of magic, and view it as underhanded or dishonorable.

 

Also, we don't need to fire the guards just because they can't take out a demigod one on one. That's a very unreasonable employment policy.

 

Perhaps if you get the 'stand fast' force greet from the guards, and try to resist arrest, a guard would have managed to get behind you and knock you out from behind. In scripting terms it would just be a fade out to black, and a message pop up, and you wake up in chains.

 

It's not hard to believe that a well aimed mace or fist could knock out the dragonborn. Just because she has dragon blood doesn't make her skull any thicker.

 

 

If they refuse to use magic to be able to do their job, fire them.

It's like a carpenter that refuses to use a nail gun. If you refuse to update your skill set to keep up with a ever changing world you get left behind. 

[jfraser]

Would it be possible to get compatibility with FISS (http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/48265/?) for those of us that are forever starting new games?

it already has a "save your settings" feature. Check the mcm.

[bicobus]

Yeah, FISS is sort of redundant here. POP uses PapyrusUtil to store data in a json file.

[Punga]

 

 

 

You could possibly do something like what Maria Eden does with having shackles applied.

 

The bit I don't like about how ME applies the shackles is that it looks too voluntary. (The PC turns around submissively and allows her captor to shackle her.)  

Thinking about it now tho, that could work when the player submits through dialog. Since I seldomly submit to an arrest I never thought to do that.

I'll look into that if I get enough requests for it, for I would probably never use it.

 

I like the 'ninja' arrests too much.

Just walking along being almighty, when I hear that blasted green ball flying through the air behind me. Next thing I know I'm all bound and helpless on the floor and completely under the BH's control.

 

 

So, can you add that submitting through dialog option for POP 8s? 

The PC turning around and allowing to be shackled would be more immersive that the "aggressive" green ball, no?

 

 

 

Ok, ok, you've talked me into it. I'll add that in POP 8s.

 

This is great news. So when can we expect this unicorn?

[Code Serpent]

 

 

 

If they refuse to use magic to be able to do their job, fire them.

It's like a carpenter that refuses to use a nail gun. If you refuse to update your skill set to keep up with a ever changing world you get left behind. 

 

The guards don't need to use magic for 99.9% of their job, the Dragonborn is literally the only case where they would need to use such a spell, because they need to keep her alive to save the world. Every other criminal they encounter, if they're not willing to go quietly, they would just cut their head off then and there with their swords and axes.

 

Also, ironically 'keeping with the times' here would actually be avoiding magic.

 

The oblivion crisis is still being remembered and talked about with some frequency, and that event makes people distrust magic. Also, the great war is still fresh in peoples' mind. The newest battle between Nords and Elves has reopened old wounds, and the Elves' frequent use of magic has reminded the Nords that they should avoid magic, to avoid being like their enemies. Finally, the Stormcloak Uprising has put a spotlight on traditional Nord values, the most prominent one being honorable combat. As I've said, Nords usually view magic as dishonorable, and now with a focus on honorable combat, they are even less likely to start using magic.

 

So, a better allegory would be a farmer that refuses to use a specific brand of fertilizer on a single plant, because their normal fertilizer has worked with every other crop that they have, and this other fertilizer was developed by the USSR or something.

By the way, any of you ever went to the cloud district? Oh what am I saying, of course you didn't, it isn't a place for unrefined individuals such as yourselves. For some reasons, every Jarls spend their entire days on a throne and they never move from it unless if it is to go to sleep. Another funny bit is that anybody can just walk up to any jarl at any time, even in the middle of a civil war.

 

But a guard using magic to subdue a high-class criminal? Maybe they should have warmages instead or something, but in no point I find it immersion breaking because the freaking world doesn't make sense.

Just because some parts of the game are unrealistic, doesn't mean we can't try to make other parts realistic.

[Punga]

It's actually CCCP. 

Also, through all your ramblings I am yet to see an immersive solution other than knocking the DB out while he/she sees it coming. 

 

Ninja Edit;

IronDusk33, I meant to ask about your profile picture. Is that a little guy holding a giant sickle, or a sideboob? 

[Slorm]

 

Bug Report and a "Problem" Feature

 

1/ Bug - I was having a problem with a repeat visit to Dawnstar jail so did a forced reset. When I got back to Whiterun there was a stray PO BH so looks like that is what is producing them. I then tried another forced reset but the BH remained though it did not appear to produce another one. Minor issue as they're easy enough to zap.

 

2/ Problem Feature - not really a bug but could be nasty with the wrong mods. After I was released from Dawnstar jail the Jail Master says "I have a surprise for you" and fits the pc with devices from a previous visit. In this case it was a CD collar and belt but as that quest had already been completed the devices cannot be removed except by using a quest reset in CD. Is there a way to stop this, if not it really needs a toggle to switch it off as it doesn't seem a good idea to have to reset other mods to remove stuff.

 

EDIT: Thought I'd best add some details on the CD issue, it was late last night when I posted the above.

 

My first arrest was in Dawnstar where I'd handed myself in to a guard, I wasn't wearing any devices. My second arrest was by BH's and I was taken to Wildhelm. Now my memory is a bit flaky here, but I think I had just made a CD delivery to Winterhold when the BH turned up and took me to Wildhelm so I think I was wearing the CD belt and collar. Unfortunately my memory is a bit hazy as I was probably drunk (or going senile). I'm still using CD v3.84 btw.

 

I have POP set to NOT remove devices so that it only removes standard DD stuff but it seems like it's remembered that I had the devices fitted previously and then added them to me after I completed my third jail term back again in Dawnstar (poor old Betild had an "accident" with an arrow in the back - oops)

 

I will look into the CD issue.

The BH issue, try and do a reset in Whiterun and see if they disappear. They spawn by the smithy.

 

 

 

Thanks Inte

 

I tried a forced reset but the BH just remained in fromt of me. Neither were at the Whiterun smithy, the first was outside the Whiterun gate and this one is standing by the river near the Honningbrew Meadary.

 

I've still got a game with the second one, I'll get you a screenie and a log with a forced reset

 

EDIT: Here's the screenie and logs. Log 0 is a normal log and log 1 is a trace log though I'm not sure if it's of any use as it seems to be mainly errors with Trace

 

Papyrus.0.log Papyrus.1.log

 

 

[Guest]

 

 

 

I have a problem with the arrest scene. The guard casts a spell that puts a number of devices on my character(hood, arm and leg binds) and then my character is forced into a pose. At this point, if I haven't enabled "guards have fun before travel" in MCM, he will just stand there forever after taking my gold, and nothing happens. I have to enable "guards have fun" and get the scene before he will drag me to prison.

 

This must mean that the problem is with POP. Is there a fix for this? Or is there a way to disable the "arrested by spell" feature? I don't think it's immersive that guards can cast spells.

 

Ok, I will test this.

Thanks for the bug report.

 

IDK, if M'aiq can cast spells shouldn't the guards?

 

Guards are usually Nords, and it shown incredibly often that Nords really don't like magic, of any sort.

 

 

If you have a better idea how to immersively and forcefully incapacitate the PC during the arrest I am all ears ... eyes?   

 

 

Here is an idea. Guards are equipped with an enchanted club that forces anyone into submission. That way they won't have to learn any spells. The most disturbing fact for me isn't that they are nords using magic however. It's that a simple-minded guard, the typical soldier type, can cast a spell that overpowers you, even if you are a master spellcaster yourself. If you want to keep the arrest spell, at least turn the guards into battle-mages with armor that implies they are battle-mages. Maybe some armor with robes over it. That would feel more immersive than the vanilla guards suddenly casting spells, when you know from the start that they were never able to do it. The moment they hold that green glow in their hand I think "Aha, it's been added by POP" because it looks so out of place.

[Punga]

Enchantment is magic, no? So that contradicts your original premise.

Also you see a club, enchanted or not, coming, no? Block it with a shield. 

[Guest]

Enchantment is magic, no? So that contradicts your original premise.

Also you see a club, enchanted or not, coming, no? Block it with a shield. 

 

The magic would spread through the shield and into the body. And no, I don't think it contradicts my original premise since it doesn't require a strong mind to wield an enchanted club. It would be like stun-baton. If people still think that wouldn't be enough, then give them magic staffs. It's better than vanilla guards casting spells at least. The spell is a form of paralyze which would require extensive alteration training to cast, not something any soldier can pull off.

[Code Serpent]

It's actually CCCP. 

Also, through all your ramblings I am yet to see an immersive solution other than knocking the DB out while he/she sees it coming. 

 

Well, the majority of my ramblings have been trying to prove that Nord guards would never cast spells.

 

A possible third option, besides spell casting or mace bashing, could be enchantments. Specially enchanted swords or collars that are used by guards to capture important criminals.

 

Edit: I got distracted writing this and didn't see nightwolf post a similar suggestion

 

 

Ninja Edit;

IronDusk33, I meant to ask about your profile picture. Is that a little guy holding a giant sickle, or a sideboob? 

 

 

Actually, it's a prosthetic iron hook.

[Punga]

Oh, right. IronDusk33 said Nords are oposed the use of any kind of magic. Still a club would not be an immersive way to arrest someone you cannot get close to. 

 

It's actually CCCP. 
Also, through all your ramblings I am yet to see an immersive solution other than knocking the DB out while he/she sees it coming.

 
Well, the majority of my ramblings have been trying to prove that Nord guards would never cast spells.
 
A possible third option, besides spell casting or mace bashing, could be enchantments. Specially enchanted swords or collars that are used by guards to capture important criminals.
 
Edit: I got distracted writing this and didn't see nightwolf post a similar suggestion

 

Ninja Edit;
IronDusk33, I meant to ask about your profile picture. Is that a little guy holding a giant sickle, or a sideboob?

 

 

Actually, it's a prosthetic iron hook.

 

I see a sideboob everytime.

[Guest]

Oh, right. IronDusk33 said Nords are oposed the use of any kind of magic. Still a club would not be an immersive way to arrest someone you cannot get close to. 

 

Who said they can't get close? They are standing right in front of you when they arrest you. They just need to use some kind of attack animation to make the appearance that they are actually using it. There is this mod that turns the forward power attack into a charging forward thrust. That would do the job even if there were some distance between. I am always surprised by how enemies can reach me with it.

[Code Serpent]

Oh, right. IronDusk33 said Nords are oposed the use of any kind of magic. Still a club would not be an immersive way to arrest someone you cannot get close to. 

 

Enchanted bows?