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[Sims3][WIP] KinkyWorld v0.37 [Updated: May 3rd 2019]


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Posted

Hello. This is the first time I'm trying out this mod, but apparently it crashes my game on loading screen. Anyone else had the same issue or knows how to fix it?

 

sims3mods.thumb.png.1fca020bff8b2164ad40f6ecc7f7b455.png

 

These are the packages in /mods folder.

I can enter the game to main menu, but when I try to create a new world, it crashes on loading screen.

If I remove this mod (and all three sex animations mods), then I can play the game normally.

 

Help is greatly appreciated!

Posted
1 hour ago, Awtun said:

These are the packages in /mods folder.

Not all packages go in the Mods/Packages folder... "CCMerged" goes inDCBackup folder, and you should have a separate folder.for the "ContentPatch".

Posted

I noticed I didn't have master controller, but when I added it in. It just messed up all my animals and collars/equipment weren't select able, it was just empty when creating pets. I exit and remove master controller and everything goes back to normal when I test without it, maybe I already have something else and it's causing conflicts? I haven't figured out why or what is causing that yet.

Posted
4 hours ago, crimhead said:

But did it work?

Yes, I have sims with crabs whom I never manually infected, I believe the victim spread them. As mentioned, using the disease function is a new experience for me, so for now, take everything with a grain of salt as I experiment further and try to build up a consistent example of events. The victim may be the catalyst, and infecting the rapist was just unnecessary instead of directly infecting the victim - which would follow your observations.... The rapists in my saves keep the custom look I give them, and I was surprised to see them being used as booth merchants and other npc's.

2 hours ago, Awtun said:

it crashes on loading screen

I have no idea what ContentPatch.package is so immediately am suspicious. As far as CCmerged - mine is in the overrides folder within the mods folder. The overrides folder is alongside the packages folder.

 

2 hours ago, Awtun said:

I try to create a new world

What happens with older saves?

 

59 minutes ago, Zathuul said:

maybe I already have something else and it's causing conflicts?

Yep! You'll need to figure out what it is. While Master Controller isn't mandatory, like KW, there's no way I would keep playing the Sims3 without it, or a lot of the NRaas mods. Have you 'studied' the FAQ section @ NRaas? While this IS the KW forum, it also seems the 'defacto' spot to discuss any sim problems with those using KW, even if not actually - on topic. Getting people sorted seems more important than idle forum etiquette.

 

If you want to troubleshoot - you know the drill. Remove everything (including KW) and see if MC works by itself. If so, you know you have a conflict. With everything installed (this crashes the game per your post) you might be able to identify it using Delphy's Dashboard per LadySmoks instructions in the past.

Posted
2 hours ago, landess said:

I have no idea what ContentPatch.package is so immediately am suspicious. As far as CCmerged - mine is in the overrides folder within the mods folder.

Leaves me to wonder a bit about both, what they do and how they work? I have the "ContentPatch" (wonder if its something Origin snuck in???), and a completely separate folder for it in the main Sims 3 folder. Also, my CCmerged is inside of my DCBackup folder, yours in your Overrides folder???? Either way, neither of us have those in our Packages folder.

Posted
On 3/28/2020 at 7:04 PM, LadySmoks said:

I'm sure Oniki thanks you. But, it's The Sims 3. There are probably 10,000 webpages (or more) about game lag, crashes, overloading the abilities of your computer, system requirements, etc. As you add content to TS3, what your computer is able to handle gets stressed.

I Agree with you. but what you prefer for maximum perfomance

Posted
27 minutes ago, franktempeny7 said:

I Agree with you. but what you prefer for maximum perfomance

I talked my husband into getting me a gaming laptop with 16 GB RAM, 1 TB harddrive, Nividia GEForce GTX video card, and a bunch of other stuff that pushes through most problems like a train through a car on the tracks. Yes, I did things that KW animators haven't dreamed of, but I got it!

 

First of all, if your computer only meets minimal requirements for TS3, almost anything you add will kill it. After that, get and run Delphy's Dashboard and remove conflicts and bad CC. Read back a few pages to make sure your Mods folder is set up right in the first place, and you don't have stuff where it shouldn't be. Merge packages. And read through, and try some of the stuff on the 10,000 pages about TS3 crashes, lag, etc. It's basically all out there.

 

I can give you the fish today, and you'll be back for another tomorrow... or I teach you to fish and every problem you ever have, you'll be able to find, and fix it yourself. 

 

If you really get stuck, I, landess and a few others who hang out can help... but I think it's better if you try yourself first and if you can't figure it out, come back with info like, your computer, OS, RAM, hardrive, screenshots of what'sin your packages folder... again, read back a few pages and you'll see these are the commonly asked questions when someone says their game isn't working.

 

Good luck

Posted
2 hours ago, LadySmoks said:

CCmerged is inside of my DCBackup folder, yours in your Overrides folder?

Mine came with a downloaded world (a 'fixed' version of an EA world-Monte Vista) and this is where the instructions told me to put it. It likely has all the animations and such for items that came with that world from the store (pizza oven use/etc.).

 

Funny thing about EA worlds being obtainable outside official source - even with the CCmerged files, animation objects are missing. Hands are empty when doing things like using pizza oven, Archery range (Dragon Valley), and the like. Just shows EA is pretty good at keeping little things out of the hands of those whom didn't buy them at the store. NP, no Origin, no regrets.

Posted
9 minutes ago, landess said:

Mine came with a downloaded world

Not sure where or when mine came in, or why it is where it is?

11 minutes ago, landess said:

even with the CCmerged files, animation objects are missing

I suspect that your game... my game... whoever's game is looking to match content with the program files that are activated, according to whatever the CC creator used as his/ her clone base. I've run into this with clothes CC. The creator used something from EP7 as the base when they made whatever it is they made. I don't have EP7, so my game doesn't "see the CC". Some items, I have been able to open in s3pe, extract meshes and imgs, open a new base game item in TSRW, make a throw away package, replace the base game mesh with the custom CC mesh, open THAT package in TSRW, etract the wsos, rebone and morph them, put THEM back, then add the custom imgs!!! A bit of work, and obviously, I have to really like how that CC looked!!!

 

The only "world" I ever downloaded is Nonsequitur's Phallus Glean. And THAT has a lot missing for me, I suspect for the reason I mentioned about clothes CC. He used a bunch of EP's and Sp's that I don't have. So, a lot is missing in my game.

 

If you open a package with s3pe, you'll see where it says "group". THAT is identifying the EP or SP. Base game is 0x00000000. Late Night is 0x28000000. Each EP and SP has it's own group id. If the CC has a group id that you didn't PAY for... HAHA! Which is why, if anyone reads the stuff, I always note my CC is base game. ))) A lot of people making CC know this and do the little extra work to make their CC base game. So stuff, I guess can't be avoided. I've spoken to Nonsequitur about this. He understands, but let's all be realistic... for him, or anyone to re-package every single piece they use from an EP or SP in an entire world to base game would be insane!

 

Almost ready...

Spoiler

a.jpg.f959e0c91130b1fb4b3484dabb3f4e4c.jpg

 

Posted
5 hours ago, landess said:

I have no idea what ContentPatch.package is so immediately am suspicious.

Me either. That file doesn't exist at all for me, either in the actual program folder (e.g., "Program FIles...blah...blah... blah"), game folder (e.g., "Documents...blah...blah...blah"), or any of my many full backups of game folders.  I do however have an empty folder named "ContentPatch" in my game folder tree.

3 hours ago, LadySmoks said:

Leaves me to wonder a bit about both, what they do and how they work? I have the "ContentPatch" (wonder if its something Origin snuck in???), and a completely separate folder for it in the main Sims 3 folder.

59 minutes ago, landess said:

It likely has all the animations and such for items that came with that world from the store (pizza oven use/etc.).

Found this on it:  http://modthesims.info/t/547634  Looks like it's EA store related and contains patches/overrides of things that would be in the ccmerged package, which (apparently) is used before the game engine has to go back to the base core folder to load things.  (Which makes it sound really troubling that the world fix creator decided to "bundle" objects by giving that file vs the actual object's packages.)

5 hours ago, landess said:

As far as CCmerged - mine is in the overrides folder within the mods folder. The overrides folder is alongside the packages folder.

3 hours ago, LadySmoks said:

Also, my CCmerged is inside of my DCBackup folder, yours in your Overrides folder???? Either way, neither of us have those in our Packages folder.

59 minutes ago, landess said:

Mine came with a downloaded world ... and this is where the instructions told me to put it.

Only things in Mods\Overrides are things I've manually put there, so unless someone else thinks identically as me (worry if they do) I rarely mention them. (ok, so there's only 1 and that is an unrelated mod [auto collect] & only per that mod's discussion thread). Kinda sounds like a similar reason landess has it there.

 

 

8 hours ago, Awtun said:

it crashes my game on loading screen. Anyone else had the same issue or knows how to fix it?

TS3 crashing on game load is, well... you can do an internet search just as easy as any of us. There's tons of pages discussing that.  For me, it's lately been almost always TS4 CC (sims3dashboard can't check for those, but more on that tool below).

 

tl;dr: you f'd up & put things TS3 doesn't know how to handle in the wrong spot.

8 hours ago, Awtun said:

Hello. This is the first time I'm trying out this mod, but apparently it crashes my game on loading screen. Anyone else had the same issue or knows how to fix it?

 

 

These are the packages in /mods folder.

I can enter the game to main menu, but when I try to create a new world, it crashes on loading screen.

If I remove this mod (and all three sex animations mods), then I can play the game normally.

 

Help is greatly appreciated!

Is that your Mods folder or your Mods\Packages folder?  If that is not Mods\Packages, then you have things in the wrong spot.  Also, it should be pretty obvious by now from the other comments that you need to remove at least ccmerged.package and ContentPatch.package (move elsewhere, you know, you do have a full backup right?)  There's a huge difference in folders, so being specific is important.

 

8 hours ago, Awtun said:

 

If I remove this mod (and all three sex animations mods), then I can play the game normally.

 

I missed this earlier (& just deleted what I was typing about making sure mods worked, might've missed some, tho').

 

Looks like you have the 399 build of the mod (timestamp/filesize).

 

My gut says it's crashing on you b/c you have those other files in there.  But my gut also is saying that screenshot doesn't look like it could possibly be everything you have in that folder. It just... gaahhhh... use folders people!!!! Drives me up a wall ? when people just dump things all into one spot. Messy folders are nearly impossible to debug. Ranting aside. It looks like it is everything, but, just looks sooooooo few things. Yanking your chain a bit here. How you have it will work for few things, but once you get to a few GB of files, it'll be horrible.

 

I think I saw someone mention checking with Delphy's Dashboard.  I'm gonna echo that recommendation.  How I go about checking things -- each and every time I add anything is here:

 

8 hours ago, Awtun said:

I can enter the game to main menu, but when I try to create a new world, it crashes on loading screen.

Just to confirm/verify/ask... whatever:  it crashes on new games, how about saved games? 

 

Also, did you ever have Animated Woohoo Passion installed in this game folder?  If so, try this, if not, skip.

1) rename "The Sims 3" folder (your game folder)

2) launch the game, let it get to the main menu, then exit

3) copy these files from your freshly renamed game folder into the newly created one: Options.ini, userPresets.package

4) copy your entire Mods folder over (as long as you're 100% sure you removed anything and everything related to Passion)

5) start the game & see if it still crashes.

Why all this?  Passion's dev was adamant that you should never use his mod if you ever had KW installed as they conflict horribly.

 

Did you ever have AwesomeMod installed?  That, as I understand it, also conflicts horribly with KW.

 

Did you ever try CCMagic?  It, IMHO, royally f**ks over your entire Mods folder, making it supposedly load faster, but at the huge cost of making it nearly impossible to figure out what broke things.

 

Why the insistence on for all time, did you ever use...?  Because things like these things (NR, KW) put "stuff" they need in the Library folder (at a minimum) and since that's loaded, even when starting a "new world", it's not the same as starting a "new game".  New game, to me, requires the above steps.

 

One last quick add:  Did you delete the 5 Cache packages out of the base of the game folder when you added KW before starting?  (Remember: none of us can know what your modding level of experience is, so sorry if some of the questions you get asked have you "duh, I'm not an idiot". We can't know beyond what you tell us what you have/haven't tried,

 

I'm still thinking your issue is those 2 files that everyone else instantly keyed-in on as being "weird".  Providing some info as to why you put those files where you did would help us understand things.

 

2 hours ago, LadySmoks said:

gaming laptop with 16 GB RAM, 1 TB harddrive, Nividia GEForce GTX video card, and a bunch of other stuff 

First of all, if your computer only meets minimal requirements for TS3, almost anything you add will kill it

It still irks me to no end that TS3 is only 32-bit, so can only ever use about 3GB of RAM. I have 4 times that amount of RAM and rarely can use it. But it does allow running TS3 the same time as several browsers, with multiple pages loaded, while playing music/streaming video, and doing tons of other things. So not a total loss, but if only EA had used the capabilities of the day when they created TS3... they'd have been leading the curve, not following it.  sigh

 

My ultra energy efficient laptop has an i7 (so has the CPU power) has 16GB RAM, an ultra fast 1TB NVMe SSD (so reads data fast), but only has an Intel 620 GPU that uses system RAM.  So graphics-heavy games like TS3 run like a steaming pile of monkey dung.  Really.  I tried loading a save game (that takes about 5 mins on my desktop) on it... it took over 30 mins.

4 hours ago, franktempeny7 said:

I Agree with you. but what you prefer for maximum perfomance

So, if your computer has a wimpy graphics card, and you can update it, get something with at least 4GB ram. My desktop's is a GTX 1060 with 6GB. Rarely does TS3 push it to 100% GPU usage, but sometimes it does.  More graphics memory = more items it can load, which = better quality graphics, which = better game experience.  Faster GPU can = better 3D rendering.  Both of those things are areas that will help TS3.

 

See this thread for more info, though, as TS3 being old won't know about newer graphics cards:  https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1131162350

 

 

 

Echoing these thoughts... for all newer players who were referenced in this response:

2 hours ago, LadySmoks said:

I can give you the fish today, and you'll be back for another tomorrow... or I teach you to fish and every problem you ever have, you'll be able to find, and fix it yourself. 

 

If you really get stuck, I, landess and a few others who hang out can help... but I think it's better if you try yourself first and if you can't figure it out, come back with info like, your computer, OS, RAM, hardrive, screenshots of what'sin your packages folder... again, read back a few pages and you'll see these are the commonly asked questions when someone says their game isn't working.

 

Good luck



Also, this took like an hour to type, had lots of edits, so apologies if there's an unfinished sentence/thought in there.

Posted
1 hour ago, LadySmoks said:

If you open a package with s3pe, you'll see where it says "group". THAT is identifying the EP or SP. Base game is 0x00000000. Late Night is 0x28000000. Each EP and SP has it's own group id.

Ohhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!  Is that what that indicates?!?  Дякую!! Thanks!!

 

1 hour ago, LadySmoks said:

Almost ready...

That outfit... 

Spoiler

 

tenor.gif?itemid=15762196


 

 

Posted

So true LadySmoks,

 

Because I would need to remake every item in that world using a base-game doner in order for everything to be seen by everyone.

Although I have many of the same object in the world (there are over 10,000 objects) - I'm sure there are at least a few dozen custom objects that require Scripts, have animation sequences, etc. which require that EP or SP. 

 

I also warn at the beginning that if you don't have all the listed EP's & SP's - Items associated with the EP or SP will not show in the game. 

 

The same goes for clothing.

If a creator doesn't take the extra time & steps to use a Base-Game doner - the garment will only show if you have the EP or SP of the doner. 

Whenever I make a garment - I make it base-game if at all posible. If I don't - I tell the enduser 1st thing (rare).

 

As for where your CCMerged:

There should be only one CCMerged and it should be in your CCBackup.

 

815339873_CCMergedFolderimage.PNG.f831ee115745927bb9b7bc74af9c55fe.PNG

 

If you've place it in any Folder but CCBackup - you probably have two (2) CCMerged.package files. 

Delete the one NOT in CCBackup. CCMerged should not be touched unless you wish to wipe out your Object connections or are compiling a world. 

 

If you have CCMerged in your Mods/Packages folder you're working it to death.  Oh, it may work but you effectively cause the game to load the content, override the content again when CCBackup is scanned in, and again when the Mods/Packages are loaded as the last override. There is a slight risk of eventually corrupting the game core objects. 

 

I would imagine your game loads fairly slow and is jumpy in play - more than usual.

If things just don't seem to be working for you - you can always start from scratch. Store your current The Sims 3 (documents) folder someplace safe, delete the existing The Sims 3 folder, and start with a fresh game folder. This time build the Mods/Packages folder correctly.

 

If any world (or anything) places a CCMerged into the Mods/Packages folder - it was not made correctly.

 

That's my understanding.

I'm sure there are many out there that know more.

 

Posted
1 hour ago, jdw6 said:

Ohhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!  Is that what that indicates?!?  Дякую!! Thanks!!

You're welcome.

1 hour ago, jdw6 said:

That outfit... 

Just uploaded it. )

1 hour ago, Non-sequitur said:

As for where your CCMerged:

There should be only one CCMerged and it should be in your CCBackup.

You meant DCBackup, as that's what you have highlighted.

 

1 hour ago, Non-sequitur said:

Oh, it may work but you effectively cause the game to load the content, override the content again when CCBackup is scanned in, and again when the Mods/Packages are loaded as the last override. There is a slight risk of eventually corrupting the game core objects.

Which may be causing the loading crash after adding another high capacity mod.

Posted
2 hours ago, Non-sequitur said:

There should be only one CCMerged and it should be in your CCBackup

The EA CCmerged is created/modified each time something is installed/uninstalled via the Sims 3 launcher. 'IF' you have 'official' EA store content that wasn't gotten through the store, then the 'uploader' has no choice but to add those files normally given by EA somewhere else. This is the case with downloaded worlds as they must include specific animations/etc. which can't be installed normally. If I was to put the CCmerged from my overrides folder into my DCBackup, it would 'overwrite' the one there, and then all my EP's would be corrupted.

 

Perhaps there is a way to get the 2 CCmerged into one solving the bigger issue, but as is, I have no problems other than the few specifics I mentioned earlier, so I've had no reason to look into it, or do so. Also there is no guarantee that if merged, that the few problems I experience with official downloaded worlds would actually be solved. It's worth a try, as backups do as backups are.

 

1 hour ago, LadySmoks said:

Just uploaded it.

No Transparent platforms yet? Sorry, those just really caught my eye! Thanks though, I don't have an 'AF' version of any tops like that (School Lolita)

 

3 hours ago, jdw6 said:

See this thread for more info

After following all the instruction there, My 1080 now uses a shitload of power, but then again, I changed INI settings to get maximum use from it since I upped the numbers per card abilities. One side effect though, any low rez textures really stick out now. Mostly some skins look blotchy is about it, but everything else looks pretty damn good. Even the crappy looking male body hair now looks like it does in CAS while live in game. So there's that.

Posted
33 minutes ago, landess said:

No Transparent platforms yet? Sorry, those just really caught my eye! Thanks though, I don't have an 'AF' version of any tops like that (School Lolita)

HaHa! Well, as you know, transparencies are new to me, and working out how to get those shoes just right has been a lot of trial and error. In a very old MTS tutorial, CmarNYC apparently went through the shaders to find what she felt worked best for clothes. It's a great fallback position to have. But, I've been going through again to see if there's one that I like better for those shoes. Then, there's the amount of transparency too much, no shoes (or clothes) not enough, and why bother in the first place? It's very touchy. But, hopefully soon. ))) I'm finally making final packages for some Harley Quinn accessories to upload. I found a tutorial on how to add custom thumbnails to buy objects! Also have another "Sheer Elegance" nightie in testing. )))

 

My problem remains the same... Oooooooo.... SHINY!!!!!! I made a clone of the ladies restroom door as a regular looking door with interesting signs on them! Also, a smaller condom dispenser. Also, working on male stripper gear! ))))) That, I'm still rough cutting the meshes.

Posted
4 hours ago, landess said:

If I was to put the CCmerged from my overrides folder into my DCBackup, it would 'overwrite' the one there

Mostly correct. It goes Core, Backup/Merged, Mods/Packages - in that order.  Each will override the previous. However, I've played all kinds of 3rd party worlds, and aside from the regular EP world's only a few; Barnacle Bay, Monte Vista,  and Dragon Valley. None of them produced a 2nd CCMerged. That's what I thought you were talking about.  Yes, if you put any  package file with the same name as CCMerged in DCBackup - guess what... a host of things can happen. 

 

Regarding the CCMerged that is automatically generated by the Game - simply put, it is a compacted file where Mostly... the Sims 3 Store developers keep vital XML data that is required for hot installs (Launcher), that is,  Sims 3 Store content.  You can consider it a sort of Sims 3 Store mod package. It contains all the data needed for the scripted premium objects to work.

 

I can see a savvy creator/codder using a similar structure for their own controls and script thingies, and even naming it the same. I've never seen something like that myself. As long as the two never meet or change locations. Basically - two different packages - in two different locations - that do two different things... that happen to have the same name. 

 

I would have thought the developer would have use a different name though - to prevent confusion at least. 

Posted
18 minutes ago, Non-sequitur said:

None of them produced a 2nd CCMerged

The CCmerged was included in the download, not generated. As you said, since the content wasn't generated by EA through the launcher, the merged package had most everything needed for the CC to be usable, even though it was missing a few key features. Pizza oven - no food shown during preparation. Archery Range - no bow being held while shooting, although an arrow will appear in flight and in target when struck. Massage Table - no acupuncture pins or other massage 'devices' when used.

 

Since I will never use Origin, and therefore the store: being a 'bad boy' is the only way my game will ever see some of these 'held for ransom' objects.

 

I haven't played enough with the dragon eggs from Dragon Valley to know if I'll ever get a Black Dragon - I followed the instruction on topics to talk to the egg about, but still only got a purple dragon.... could be another of those 'need the store' things....

 

Screenshot-481.jpg.8e507017bc1ee7c6b3eecc48822195ea.jpg 

Posted

 

4 minutes ago, landess said:

The CCmerged was included in the download, not generated.

If this package contains its own CCMerged and was something usually found at the Store or "copy protected", it was most likely their way of circumventing the Store's little headache. 

It sounds like it was a botched crack of a Store item where the CCMerged was copied and placed with the rest of it relative to its file hierarchy in the Mods folder. Overrides have a higher priority than other packages so would be used as a key for the object(s).

 

Posted
22 minutes ago, landess said:

only got a purple dragon....

UNLESS... you ask some creative modler to make a clone in a different color... lol Don't know - haven't looked into that.

We'll make our own "Store", dagnabit! and no points to buy either.

Posted
14 hours ago, LadySmoks said:

I talked my husband into getting me a gaming laptop with 16 GB RAM, 1 TB harddrive, Nividia GEForce GTX video card, and a bunch of other stuff that pushes through most problems like a train through a car on the tracks. Yes, I did things that KW animators haven't dreamed of, but I got it!

 

First of all, if your computer only meets minimal requirements for TS3, almost anything you add will kill it. After that, get and run Delphy's Dashboard and remove conflicts and bad CC. Read back a few pages to make sure your Mods folder is set up right in the first place, and you don't have stuff where it shouldn't be. Merge packages. And read through, and try some of the stuff on the 10,000 pages about TS3 crashes, lag, etc. It's basically all out there.

 

I can give you the fish today, and you'll be back for another tomorrow... or I teach you to fish and every problem you ever have, you'll be able to find, and fix it yourself. 

 

If you really get stuck, I, landess and a few others who hang out can help... but I think it's better if you try yourself first and if you can't figure it out, come back with info like, your computer, OS, RAM, hardrive, screenshots of what'sin your packages folder... again, read back a few pages and you'll see these are the commonly asked questions when someone says their game isn't working.

 

Good luck

That was great thanks. Btw what version you prefer to use? 0.37z or build 399.7

 

Posted
2 hours ago, franktempeny7 said:

That was great thanks. Btw what version you prefer to use? 0.37z or build 399.7

You must understand that on the first page here, it says this is for v0.37, but the file that is posted is v0.3 and the 7z means that it is in a 7zip file. landess has posted his copy of the real v0.37 build 375 on this thread several times, and you can download it if you want it.

 

I also use v0.37... the real one.

Posted

Hi sorry am I missing something?  Where do you get the latest version of the KinkyWorld mod?  All the links seem to be dead and I can't seem to find any with a Google search.

Posted
4 hours ago, LadySmoks said:

You must understand that on the first page here, it says this is for v0.37, but the file that is posted is v0.3 and the 7z means that it is in a 7zip file. landess has posted his copy of the real v0.37 build 375 on this thread several times, and you can download it if you want it.

 

I also use v0.37... the real one.

Thank you for everything you really help me. One last thing, sometimes (not everytime) when sims have woohoo they only do one stage

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