Apropos

[gooser]

 

No, no. Please read the fine print in the OP in green. Stage messages are still being written. There are none in the installation you can download from LL because they are still being authored. Most likely the missing starting messages are because of missing files. The files are "missing" because SL 1.5x expanded and change animation tag support. The current release is mainly for authors/editors of messages.

 

Ah! That is good news. Sorry for the confusion. I also see that you call for volunteers to write messages. I am willing to offer my services if you like. I some ideas as to how to get around the FF problem of SL not recognizing who is active and who is passive.

 

 

You mean in a non-strapon situation?

[Guest]

I thought he meant who's wearing the trousers strapon.

[gooser]

Ok... The FF "problem" as I knew it was really about the animations tagged with "FF", not the other animations that can play between two females, one using a strapon. 

[Guest]

Just like the strapon animations, the Lesbian specific animations always have the PC in the same role, though there's not a lot of consistency as to which position is the 'passive' one. One's pretty even, one's got a clearly dominant participant, and the last alternates between who has which role.

 

Like Foreplay and MMF/MFF, they either need to use vague, non-specific messages or each have their own file. Having their own file would be the only way to establish 'passive' descriptions, mainly due to the animation that changes roles each stage.

[ergast]

Hello! First of all, I'd like to congratulate you, Gooser, for your fantastic mod! It is incredibly immersing!

 

That said, I have a little issue that I'm not sure if it has been already said or if it's happening just to me (I assume the later).

 

The mod works, displaying messages, but the menu doesn't track any character, either mine or NPCs, and in fact says that it isn't tracking anyone. What am I doing wrong? I had installed the last versions of SKSE, Sexlab framework, Sexlab Aroused and Apropos.

[gooser]

Do you have W&T enabled for the PC and NPCs?

[RDKateran]

 

I took a look at your Apropos log, and I do indeed see one instance of a Vaginal W&T increase after AP Standing Blowjob. It could possibly just be script lag, with the vaginal message being a queued up message from a previous scene. Does it happen every time, or did it only happen this one time?

 

One other possibility is that AP Standing Blowjob for some reason has a vaginal tag, although I don't remember seeing it.

 

 

Happened in every instance of oral sex that degraded the wear and tear state.  That said, it wasn't updating the actual vaginal state--while the message said pussy, it gave the status that oral would've been updated to, while actual vaginal sex resulted in proper updates to the vaginal state.

 

 

Couple of problems uncovered. Some minor logging bugs (incorrect labels), and I found a bug in one of the stock files for oral WearTearIncreased_Oral.txt:

{
    "1st Person" :
    [
        "My poor {MOUTH} is sore! All the {FUCKING} has left it {WTORAL}!"
    ],
    "2nd Person" :
    [
        "Your poor {PUSSY} is sore! All the {FUCKING} has left it {WTORAL}!"
    ],
    "3rd Person" :
    [
        "{PRIMARY}'s poor {PUSSY} is sore! All the {FUCKING} has left it {WTORAL}!"
    ]
}

Notice the problem?

 

 

Yeah, it's using the wrong tags.  I'm only using what the mod was packaged with; I haven't altered Apropos' files at all.

 

Another issue I noticed is that it was giving me virgin messages even though I had changed the wear and tear past manually--while I set my Vaginal status to 1 - Tight before having a vaginal sex animation, it still gave me a "cum has filled your vagina for the first time" message.  Similarly, I got these same virgin status updates from an follower, even though I did not have wear and tear for NPCs enabled at the time.  I later enabled it to try and be able to manipulate said follower's status through the menu, but it kept telling me that it wasn't tracking anyone even after it was enabled.

[gooser]

Yeah, I wasn't accusing you of having a bad file - I just identified a problem in a  file in the current download.

 

W&T has some minor bugs currently, particularly in the area of synching with "virginity". Virginity is not tied to W&T really, but there's some confusion in the MCM panel allowing you to revert to virgin status via the dropdown. Ideally, virginity will be directly tied to SL stats, something I'm going to fix in the next release.

[RDKateran]

Yeah, didn't think you were.  Just letting you know I was using the base files and not anyone's altered files, nor any attempts I could've made.

[ergast]

 

Do you have W&T enabled for the PC and NPCs?

 

Yup, I enabled it.

 

[gooser]

If you are still seeing messages about W&T reduction, when you don't see any names listed in MCM, please post an apropos log.

[Grimbold the unlovely]

Just like the strapon animations, the Lesbian specific animations always have the PC in the same role, though there's not a lot of consistency as to which position is the 'passive' one. One's pretty even, one's got a clearly dominant participant, and the last alternates between who has which role.

 

Like Foreplay and MMF/MFF, they either need to use vague, non-specific messages or each have their own file. Having their own file would be the only way to establish 'passive' descriptions, mainly due to the animation that changes roles each stage.

 

The solution I propose is to get away from narrative (naming ACTIVE and PRIMARY) and instead use direct speech in quotation marks. The 'messages' would not be some narrator's comment on what is happening, but direct dialogue by the participants. There would be no need to identify who said what, because the visual context provided by the animation would make that abundantly clear.

 

So for oral a message might read: 'Honey, you taste so good' or 'Baby, I love what you do with your tongue' or 'That's it--little circles with the tip of your tongue' 

For vaginal: 'My dildo will turn your straight {PUSSY} gay'' or 'Want some rubber, scrubber?' 

 

And so on. These are examples only. The point is that direct speech has a potential for Apropos that has yet to be fully explored.

[gooser]

That works great for folks who think in terms of 1st person narratives. How would it work for those who think in 2nd or 3rd person?

[Grimbold the unlovely]

I think it actually works best with second person, since direct speech usually addresses someone as 'you'. But it is not really a narrative at all. Think drama rather than novels. The real advantage is that dramatic dialogue (speeches rather than 'messages') liberates Apropos from the  task of having to spedify who is doing what to whom. It will be clear from the speech whether the speaker is a recipient or giver of pleasure.

 

Recipient: 'O yes, baby, eat me out'

Giver: 'Lie back and let me pleasure you'

 

To my mind, messages of that kind are not less but more immersive than 'I eat Y out'; 'You eat Y out'; 'X eats Y out';

 

If we want to keep within the paramaters of first and second person for 'messages', we could have 1st person for receiving and 2nd for giving pleasure, but in my own experimenting with this great mod I have moved away from grammatical categories. Instead I use '1st person' for romantic sex, 2nd for rough sex, and 3rd for swinging (my player comments on spouse's performance with another lover). But that is just one possibility. This mod has enormous potential, much more than the narrow grammatical categories of 'i', 'she', and 'they'. If I understand the FF problem correctly, SL has difficulty distinguishing between two women if there is not a dildo involved. My solution is to drop the proper names and use dialogue instead. You can still use names for some messages:

 

'Primary and Active become one, tongues, fingers, dildos probing mouths, asses, and pussies'

 

A message like that could cover all the bases! But my preference is to drop the names for most FF messages and have generic speeches of appreciation that could be spoken by EITHER the player or an NPC. The message would be specific as to act, but not to the identity (name, either PRIMARY or ACTIVE) of the actor. There is no  need to specify identity (and every word counts with Apropos!). If your screen is full of (say) Jordis eating out the player character, and the message says 'O yes, suck my clit--gently, gently!' it will be pellucid who says those words. It will  be Jordis if she is being eaten by the player, and the player if she is being eaten by Jordis. The same message will apply in different ways to different people at different times (thereby adding even more variety).

 

Even aggressive animations could lend themselves to dialogue style messages: 'Dibella's clit! That's not a dildo that's a cactus!' Some dialogue style messages could be spoken by onlookers, especially in non consensual acts.  Bandits or forsworn might comment on the action--and so might a follower if the player is in the active role. The words would be the same, but the context would change depending on whether player was perpretrator or victim. True, there could be some uncertainty as to how to categorize such messages (are they 1st, 2nd, 3rd person?), but this is actually an advantage, not a disadvantage. I am not saying that every message should be direct speech. Of course not. But some messages of that kind would add a lot of immersion--and provide an elegant solution to the problem of how to make FF messages fit SL. Just an idea!

 

[afa]

Using third person alone you get similar result since the only thing being return is the actor's name rather PC is involve or not.

 

Direct speech dialog isn't bad but how would it deal with creatures and animals?

[ergast]

 

If you are still seeing messages about W&T reduction, when you don't see any names listed in MCM, please post an apropos log.

 

I paid more attention yesterday and it always treat each sexual encounter as the first one, with words like "virginal" and "for the first time", even when, thanks to Skyrim Bound, my character had suffered quite her share of forced blowjobs.

 

By the way, where can I find the log?

[RDKateran]

Same place as your papyrus logs.

[Guest]

The problem with speech is that it's pretty limited. I'm more interested in how the participants are reacting/feeling, and it would be weird for them to keep a running narrative of every little thing.

 

Apropos doesn't have a 'problem', of not being able to tell which participant has been assigned a penis, because SexLab doesn't do that. As far as it's concerned, there's simply 2 roles, 0 & 1. One position is always the female/taker role, which makes this simple. The FF animations were never originally setup to assign a female/taker role, so they're a little bit against the norm. A bigger problem would be when certain mods (Romance) allow the PC to be the dominant participant in a strapon scene, when the PC is normally the passive by default. Once FF works, it will be simple to test.

[Grimbold the unlovely]

@Decauk. First off, let me congratulate on your excellent work, which I have just downloaded from the other thread (maybe that is where we should be having this discussion. Apologies if I have got us off topic). Your samples are all first rate and point in the general direction I see as fulfilling the potential of this great mod. That said, I cannot agree with you when you say

 

"The problem with speech is that it's pretty limited. I'm more interested in how the participants are reacting/feeling".

 

I wonder what William Shakespeare would have to say about that. "Speech" is "pretty limited", the antithesis of "reacting/feeling"? Really??!! Speech is in fact enormously versatile and is the very essence of "reacting/feeling", which is why the Greeks invented drama two and half millennia ago. But the proof of the pudding etc., so maybe my best course of action is to follow your brave lead and write some samples of my own, using a mix of speech and narrative, and post them on the other thread. If you don't mind, I shall use your file as a template. Is this OK?

[ergast]

Okay, problem resolved. Somehow, the mod didn't track my character when the option to track her was checked. I unchecked it and now it tracks her.

[Guest]

@Decauk. First off, let me congratulate on your excellent work, which I have just downloaded from the other thread (maybe that is where we should be having this discussion. Apologies if I have got us off topic). Your samples are all first rate and point in the general direction I see as fulfilling the potential of this great mod. That said, I cannot agree with you when you say

 

"The problem with speech is that it's pretty limited. I'm more interested in how the participants are reacting/feeling".

 

I wonder what William Shakespeare would have to say about that. "Speech" is "pretty limited", the antithesis of "reacting/feeling"? Really??!! Speech is in fact enormously versatile and is the very essence of "reacting/feeling", which is why the Greeks invented drama two and half millennia ago. But the proof of the pudding etc., so maybe my best course of action is to follow your brave lead and write some samples of my own, using a mix of speech and narrative, and post them on the other thread. If you don't mind, I shall use your file as a template. Is this OK?

 

I think when you say 'speech', you mean language, whereas I'm simply meaning actual lines of dialogue (monologue in this case?). A line saying 'I struggle' doesn't sensibly translate to a participant actually saying 'I'm struggling'. It'd be weird if a character actually said out loud everything they're feeling or that's happening to them.

 

Spoken lines are good, and my own db contains a mix of speech and narrative. Leaving lines with an ambiguous source can definitely be done, but it limits the language that's usable if you can't refer to specific participants.

 

As for my db, feel free to use it, and that goes for anyone. People can do with it as they like.

[Guest]

The new MoreNastyCritters update is out, contains a new dog/wolf animation, named (Dog) Panicnew / (Wolf) Panicnew. It counts as anal, and is 5 stages then Orgasm.

 

The first stage is not penetrative, so like (Dog) Missionary, would benefit from its own file. The two could be put together if they were both vaginal, although they would probably be better separate due to the boob licking on missionary.

 

Like (Dog) Dominate, the orgasm stage is a knotting animation.

 

If I had my way, the tags setup would be as follows:

 

(Dog) Missionary - unique file, vaginal

(Dog) Doggystyle - vaginal

(Dog) Dominate - anal

(Dog) Panicnew - unique file, vaginal

 

I would keep (Wolf) as the same as (Dog), to avoid getting mixed up when writing files.

 

This would essentially result in a different set of files for each animation, although a lot of it could simply be duplicated for majority of stages, but it allows us to write descriptions for the unique Stage 1s for Missionary and Panicnew. If you wanted fewer tags, leave the unique tag off of (Dog) Missionary, and it will still be the only animation in the default Vaginal category and thus get its own file. Alternatively, make both DoggyStyle and Dominate anal, then they can share files.

 

Personally, I prefer vaginal descriptions for the most part, simply because there's a lot more stuff to write about, anal has less working parts, so to speak. The new animation is a total of 6 stages, and I found it simply took me a lot longer to write stuff for anal files than vaginal. Writing 6 stages of anal wouldn't be as interesting as 6 stages of vaginal.

[estelles]

Hey I came up with a sort of 'ugly' workaround for the short time papyrus shows the apropos sentences.. I use autohotkey to show a overlay on top of the game with the sentences. It reads these from the apropos.0.log file. It only works if you run your game in windowed mode, because you cannot overlay anything in fullscreen mode without hacking the d3d9.dll and i'm too noob to do this.. but in combination with onetweak, an skse plugin for borderless fullscreen, you hardly notice the difference between windowed and fullscreen mode. http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/40706/?

 

Here is the autohotkey script. you need autohotkey, http://www.autohotkey.com/,  and then use notepad to edit the first line to the path to your apropos.0.log file. start the script and then run the game in windowed fullscreen, (use some mod on nexus, to achieve this, eg. http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/40706/? )

 

gooser can you tell me if there is a way to disable the papyrus rendering of the messages in game, so I can just use just the overlay?

 

I might add some extra features such as fading texts later. 

 

ok, I apparently can't attach autohotkey files. so rename the file extention to .ahk to run it.

[nunyabidnez]

For some reason, I can not get mine to track either the player or NPC wear and tear, MCM always shows not tracking for any player and the options to track are grayed out.  Any suggestions?  I've read through the vast majority of the posts and have only seen one other person ask a similar question, didn't see any response to them.  Thanks in advance for any information.

[gooser]

Some details would help: new save game or upgrade? Have you tried a new character? Also can you post an apropos log with Debug and Trace levels turned on?