[WIP] Skyrim Slavers Guild

[Guest pacesetter2012]

you've probably already answered this hundreds of times but' date=' what's the URL for the wiki, the old one is closed apparently, and google just directs me to the old, closed, one.

[/quote']

 

 

here ya go

 

http://www.necavi.org/slavers/index.php/...Guild_Wiki

[futuredark]

Couple things:

 

Is it possible to have an NPC's enslavement function as if they died? Specifically, I'd like to be able to enslave characters that need to be killed to satisfy quests without losing/permanently stalling the quest. Optimally, this would be something you could turn on and off so that you could also enslave friendly NPC's without any problematic repercussions.

 

I'd like to suggest a quest/series of quests. I believe that someone suggested before that you be able to enslave spriggans, flame atronachs, and a few other beasts. I'd like to add hagravens to that list, and before people start screaming about how disgusting hagravens are, one of the main aspects of the quest would be restoring the hagraven's lost humanity (maybe with soul gems, maybe with some specific item you have to delve into a dungeon to recover, maybe both.) This could be a one time quest, or a quest that opens up the ability to restore/bestow humanity onto any of the more anthropomorphic beasts in the game. (The idea I had in mind was that the first hagraven you change would end up as a named NPC with some dialogue/options specific to her. If you guys decided to go with the ability to change other beasties into women as well, you could end up a unique NPC for each unique type of beast you convert, while subsequent girls would just be generic.)

 

As a side note, part of the conversion process for hagravens would be shaving off some years, which could be a fun ability to include to use on other characters a PC might care to enslave. The thing is, for characters already in the game, you would have to be able to adjust the actual character's appearance, whereas with hagravens you only have to swap out the hagraven with the new, young NPC you've converted them into. I'm not sure how difficult/possible this would be.

 

Also, ghosts... let's be able to enslave them too (with special equipment, of course.)

[Queen Bee]

@futuredark: I really like the hagraven idea. It has a lot of potential for romantic master/slave storylines. I could see the hagraven initially your enemy, but then after you capture her and force her to submit to you, she begrudgingly helps you cure her of her curse. Then once she's cured, she is so grateful to you she submits to you willingly as your slave. I think that could be very romantic, if done right.

 

Or it could just be rape and torture. Whatever works.

[futuredark]

Side question (assuming this isn't just me):

 

Why is it that when a post starts a new page in this thread, the page isn't available until there are at least two posts on the page? Does it have to do with the size of the thread, or because a comment was deleted somewhere? More importantly, is there a way to fix it or is there a way to view the comment without making another post?

 

I tried to just let it be, but it's happened a couple dozen times now, and if there's a way to fix it or a way around it from my end, I'd greatly appreciate knowing.

 

::Edit::

And now that I can see that response; Thanks, I like the idea of some potentially significant romantic relationships with slaves, too, and having the cured hagraven be especially grateful and devoted was my optimal outcome. My favorite master/slave dynamics are usually strict and forceful in the beginning, but much more loving and affectionate as the slave learns their place and the bond grows.

[DocClox]

With skse we should be able to extend the length of the animations' date=' correct? As well as add more complex movement? The skyrim engine has so many possibilities, just a matter of being able to work around the stupid red tape.

[/quote']

 

Not much help from SKSE so far as I'm aware, but we can probably do a lot of that by stitching Havok XML together into behavior graphs.

 

I wanted to see a stealth move where the player would grab the victim and put a knife to their throat. Then the dialogue options would appear.All the while the NPC looking up at you in fear' date=' uncomfortable with the blade to their throat (I'm a sick son-of-a-bitch:cool:). But, this goes back to a problem that we've had from the start. The two pc animation... Something we just cant do in Skyrim.

[/quote']

 

Yeah, I don't think anyone's been able to make new paired animations yet. Not and make them work, anyway.

 

Trying to execute this type of animation would probably have too many clipping issues to be even slighty aesthetically pleasing or functional. Not only that' date=' it would probably only work as a "warp to" animation... Something that 99% of the animations rely upon. Drives me nuts. It's ugly, and kills my immersion factor. I need my immersion, or else I realise I've got better things to do:).

So, a sneak imo aint gunna werk...

[/quote']

 

Well, I do want a stealth perk using a knife against the throat. If I can't get the animations working we'll do it with a popup. Sometimes the best approach is to suggest something, and then let the player's imagination fill in the details

 

Still' date=' I believe the best solution for this is to find out a way to incorporate a finishing move animation before the actual brass tacks of the mod. If we can find a way to execute the finishing move, and then have the NPC alive and maybe then go into the default slave in a cage fetal position...We'd have a good start that is immersive.

[/quote']

 

If I can, I will. Right now we're struggling to get them bumping uglies

 

 

Is it possible to have an NPC's enslavement function as if they died? Specifically' date=' I'd like to be able to enslave characters that need to be killed to satisfy quests without losing/permanently stalling the quest.

[/quote']

 

Don't know. Mostly these quest objectives use a condition called GetDead. I can't override that becuase it's built into the engine. I could change the quest objectives though so they used something like SSG.GetDeadOrEnslaved. It'd have to work on a quest by quest basis though.

 

Probably still no saving Astrid, either

 

I'd like to suggest a quest/series of quests. I believe that someone suggested before that you be able to enslave spriggans' date=' flame atronachs, and a few other beasts.

[/quote']

 

Spriggans and flame atronachs are on the list. Bring plenty of resist fire potions

 

I'd like to add hagravens to that list' date=' and before people start screaming about how disgusting hagravens are, one of the main aspects of the quest would be restoring the hagraven's lost humanity (maybe with soul gems, maybe with some specific item you have to delve into a dungeon to recover, maybe both.) This could be a one time quest, or a quest that opens up the ability to restore/bestow humanity onto any of the more anthropomorphic beasts in the game.

 

Probably a one timer, but I like the idea.

 

As a side note, part of the conversion process for hagravens would be shaving off some years, which could be a fun ability to include to use on other characters a PC might care to enslave. The thing is, for characters already in the game, you would have to be able to adjust the actual character's appearance, whereas with hagravens you only have to swap out the hagraven with the new, young NPC you've converted them into. I'm not sure how difficult/possible this would be.

 

SetRace might work in the generic case

 

Also' date=' ghosts... let's be able to enslave them too (with special equipment, of course.)

[/quote']

 

Oh yes.

 

@futuredark: I really like the hagraven idea. It has a lot of potential for romantic master/slave storylines. I could see the hagraven initially your enemy' date=' but then after you capture her and force her to submit to you, she begrudgingly helps you cure her of her curse. Then once she's cured, she is so grateful to you she submits to you willingly as your slave. I think that could be very romantic, if done right.

 

Or it could just be rape and torture. Whatever works.

[/quote']

 

Either way, I know I'm not touching any hagravens with MY ten foot pole. No one knows what they've got down there. Vagina dentata might be the least of it.

 

The hagraven quest could be a good one for late in the sequence when things start getting a bit mythic. Maybe she's been like that for a long, long time.

 

Why is it that when a post starts a new page in this thread' date=' the page isn't available until there are at least two posts on the page? Does it have to do with the size of the thread, or because a comment was deleted somewhere? More importantly, is there a way to fix it or is there a way to view the comment without making another post?

[/quote']

 

I don't know. I seemed to start after LL ran out of disk space and crashed a few months back. This isn't the only thread it affects, but it doesn't seem to hit all of them. I've been working on the assumption that ashal will sort it out when he gets a moment. Although if it's not a problem in the general case, I suppose he may not know about it.

[asdfasdf]

What this mod needs is a side quest for Falanu Hlaalu's granddaughter [it's been 200 years, right? She's an adult]. Not specifically slavery related, but she is a client who wants you to clear out some bandits who have taken the top floor of a Draugr tomb so she can move in. Her grandma taught her so much!

[sbseed]

speaking of that sort of thing, any thought on babette?

 

oh yea, you guys are welcome for the pics... wish i could take credit for making them.

[GHJKL]

About the finishing moves/killanimations...

I noticed that if the animation was interuppted the enemy did not die.

Wouldn't it be possible to make a kill animation of 25 seconds and just interrupt/cancel the animation at 20 seconds?

And then you would only need to fit the sexy stuff in to be finished in 20 seconds?

[Clarkson]

speaking of that sort of thing' date=' any thought on babette?

 

 

[/quote']

that thought confuses me a lot its it peado for a 150year old child:S

[sbseed]

lol, she is supposedly 300 years old and no longer really a child... couldnt even be classified as human.

second its a frigging game, pedophilia has nothing to do with it, the characters are not real, they dont feel pain, there is no morale restraints on bits of electricity...

third the 'children' in the game are built closer to loli's than RL kids...

 

all of that is moot, because i was joking and anything (as i have already stated in several posts) like that i would create or make available the option for changing the children to loli's anyways.

 

so get over your weirdness, pervs who congregate here dont really fit into a single label/category/title. lol

 

edit:

 

 

also, there is a huge difference between people acting out that sort of thing within a game environment to actually doing it in real life...

 

if you want to go even further, studies show that since FCC started made cartoon/hentai etc. versions of the same stuff that the children raping and pedophilia on the whole has increased 100 fold... further investigations in other countries (since no one in the US had the balls to do it) found that by allow that sort of stuff lowers those kinds of crimes etc. in RL. unfortunately we still have idiots going around screaming about pedo's every time someone even mentions it whether joking or not, no matter what context it is under... and because everyone is so scared that someone will points fingers that no one is even willing to discuss any of the issues behind why people get agitated about it in the first place let alone actually admitting that it exists and dealing with it.

 

 

[DocClox]

About the finishing moves/killanimations...

I noticed that if the animation was interuppted the enemy did not die.

Wouldn't it be possible to make a kill animation of 25 seconds and just interrupt/cancel the animation at 20 seconds?

And then you would only need to fit the sexy stuff in to be finished in 20 seconds?

 

Interesting. So in the havok' date=' the kill is probably performed in the exit transition. Either in the animation itself or in the behavior that calls it.

 

We could probably test that. If I'm right, we could make non-fatal killmoves fairly easily. The problem would then be getting them to fire, of course.

 

second its a frigging game, pedophilia has nothing to do with it, the characters are not real, they dont feel pain, there is no morale restraints on bits of electricity...

 

This is true. However the law hereabouts talks about depictions of sex with minors. More to the point, the key issue is whether or not the characters look to be underage. As far as the judge would be concerned, there's no difference between an 800 year old child and an 8 year old one.

 

I try to be as open-minded as I can about other people's fetishes. Given some of the stuff planned for SSG I pretty much have to be. And in general, if something doesn't appeal to me personally, I'm still happy for someone else to include it.

 

But I live in a jurisdiction that draws no distinction between "loli fan" and "child pornographer". Making a mod lets players rape adult women hasn't gone down entirely well in some circles, but making one that lets the player rape eight year old girls could get me put in jail. So for that reason Babette is safe from the SSG.

 

all of that is moot' date=' because i was joking and anything (as i have already stated in several posts) like that i would create or make available the option for changing the children to loli's anyways.

[/quote']

 

I get that, and for what it's worth, I thought the cartoon was funny. I just want to make my position clear to all concerned. I'm not going to judge anyone by the pictures that they like to look at, and there's no way I could stop anyone from running other mods that change the way the SSG works.

 

But no kiddies and no loli in the mod, please. Because the sort of people who complained to wikia about us probably wouldn't hesitate to go their local law enforcement officials if they thought it would work.

[asdfasdf]

Re: Falanu's granddaughter: loli wouldn't be involved at all. It's been 200 years since Oblivion, and unless I'm totally misreading elven aging, that's easily enough time for two generations.

[Queen Bee]

 

But I live in a jurisdiction that draws no distinction between "loli fan" and "child pornographer".

 

 

Really? They justify putting people in jail for pretending? FFS, what country do you live in?

[Loveryus]

DocClox, I'm glad that you choose to go that way, cause loli (or how its called) makes me sick and I'd rather not use your mod, if that was included. ^^ Thanks for not crossing that line!

[DocClox]

Re: Falanu's granddaughter: loli wouldn't be involved at all. It's been 200 years since Oblivion' date=' and unless I'm totally misreading elven aging, that's easily enough time for two generations.

[/quote']

 

Whoops, I forgot about Falanu's granddaughter. I totally support that idea; she was one of my favourites in oblivion

 

As regards loli - I was thinking more of the discussion as to whether or not babette would count as underage, being 800 years old in an 8 year old body.

 

[edit]

 

 

But I live in a jurisdiction that draws no distinction between "loli fan" and "child pornographer".

 

 

Really? They justify putting people in jail for pretending? FFS' date=' what country do you live in?

[/quote']

 

I'm in the UK. I'm not a fan of loli personally, but I can't see the harm in people looking at drawings. Especially if it means they can scratch their itch solo rather than having to go look for the real thing. I don't think that pixel patterns need the same protection under law that actual living people need, and I think that treating the two cases as equivalent is, frankly bloody stupid.

 

But while I'm sure there's an interesting test case to be had there, I'd still sooner it wasn't me in the dock, you know?

[Princessity]

Returning to paired animations for one more little moment ^^

 

I've noticed that rhere are 2 versions of the hug behaviour. One acts as a "killmove" but the other (I'm using it for dialogue feeding in my mod) is safe. I don't really know *anything* about animations, havok behaviours and so on so please don't crucify me if I'm about to say something very very very silly but would it be possible to just duplicate the non lethal hug behaviour and put new animations in the copies?

[deadmetal]

Surely people are overthinking this too much, why not come back to this debate later when theres actually more scripting framework or whatnot in place and working on normal race models

[GHJKL]

Test case is probably unnecessary. They will say it's to protect the children and stuff and the whole wide world wants you punished.

 

Anyway, the initial reason to block anything with minors was that the fake stuff looked very real. therefore it was really hard for the police to make sure (to the judge) that what was shown was a real person or not. Only way you could get conclusive evidence that there was, in fact, a real child involved was when the child depicted was found. Making it way to hard for the police to combat these things.

That's (probably in your country also) why they banned it.

But the lawmakers don't want loopholes where something that the public would find clearly wrong would be no offense because of the wording of the law.

That makes the wording really vague and makes almost anything that could possibly be wrong fall under it. So Queenbee I don't know where you live but in your country it is probably also banned.

[DocClox]

I don't really know *anything* about animations' date=' havok behaviours and so on so please don't crucify me if I'm about to say something very very very silly

[/quote']

 

I wouldn't do a thing like that

 

but would it be possible to just duplicate the non lethal hug behaviour and put new animations in the copies?

 

Should be possible. The problem is creating a new animation slot. Fore's modified behavior files don't yet work with paired animations. And he knows havok far better than I do.

 

I know he's been trying to figure it out' date=' and when he does, we'll be able to do exactly that

 

Surely people are overthinking this too much, why not come back to this debate later when theres actually more scripting framework or whatnot in place and working on normal race models

 

Yeah, I guess. Although there's a time for talking theory as well

[GHJKL]

I understood that it is hard to make animations with two persons because of how they react to each other?

 

Can't you make for example a bed where two different animations are played, not based on those doing it but two animations based on the bed. which would give you an complete scene?

 

So for example an one person bed, have the one on top play an animation towards the bed, Making it always exactly exactly at the same spot. Now the receiving one can also play an animation on the bed, also always at the same spot. Now if you match both spots wouldn't it work?

[DocClox]

I understood that it is hard to make animations with two persons because of how they react to each other?

 

Essentially' date=' i think that's right. You get problems when the game detects that the two actors are in danger of colliding. The game stores collision boxes around each actor. If too colision boxes intersect, the game engine decides they're too close and teleports one of them to a safe distance away.

 

The solution used by bethesda is paired animations, which is basically one animation that mounts two skeletons. That lets the dragonborn get up close and personal for those throat slashing sneak attacks without the collision boxes bouncing him away again.

 

So for example an one person bed, have the one on top play an animation towards the bed, Making it always exactly exactly at the same spot. Now the receiving one can also play an animation on the bed, also always at the same spot. Now if you match both spots wouldn't it work?

 

It's an excellent idea. In fact it's what I've been doing already, except using XMarkers to provide the basic positions. Really though it's even easier than that: get the first actor into position, and postion the rest relative to her.

 

Except when I try it, the second actor keeps being teleported out of the way because I don't know how to turn off collisions in the nif, and I can't do it by scripting.

[Akba]

a collision can be moved in the animation too.

Then you can enable TFC.

 

The only problem is a curve of the surface

[DocClox]

a collision can be moved in the animation too.

Then you can enable TFC.

 

The only problem is a curve of the surface

 

I just wish I knew how to do it.

 

I'm not an animator; I just dug into this stuff when no one really knew how to make them work in skyrim. There's a ton of stuff I still don't understand about it.

 

But yeah, that's the missing piece. If we can turn off the collisions for the animations, we can do the rest of it

[Aldebaraan]

just an idea but, can´t u just use the tcl console comand to toggle the collision on/off?? i use it when i get stuck... well maybe is not so simple.

[Akba]

The easiest way to import animation from TES4 (RSV-3DSMax files).

There need moved NPC-bone / to -50 Y.

All.

 

But , without facial animation, it all looks very bad and ridiculous.