SexoutNG - Stable Release '97

[prideslayer]

I know. It's annoying. I'd like to include them. Most of them just won't work with the breeze's body though, and Amras custom Roberts body has the penis in the wrong position -- causing all the alignments in the non-amra animations to be off. Before I include them they need to be fixed to use the Breeze's body, and that Roberts body needs adjusted to put the penis in the same place.

[RitualClarity]

Wouldn't that also mean that all the older Amra's animations would have to be tweaked for the new position.. Don't want to poke an eye out or something..

 

Or am I just making this harder than it needs to be..

[prideslayer]

Yes.

 

Either

 

1. Amra has to fix all of those animations, or

2. I have to make his tweaked Roberts the only male body supported by sexout, and then adjust all the sexout and ZAZ animation offsets (for the 4th time) to match that body.

 

I'm unwilling to do #2, and he's unwilling to do #1, so we're at an impasse.

 

-------

 

From an (admittely assholish) moral high ground standpoint, sexout was already here with hundreds of aligned animations and an official male body before Amra created his first animation. Neither of us would have any extra work to do and all those animations would already be in sexout if he'd just used the right body to start with.

[RitualClarity]

I was fairly confident that was the case.

 

It is what it is. Those individuals that wish to use his animations can just add the animations as instructed by him( or another in his thread) and get what they want. There for awhile I though these animations were moving closer to being compatible with Sexout.

 

Every blue moon I see a tech support question with misalignment r/t this. Many times I am the person to inform the user what is what.. ..

 

 

[Thenryb]

I was fairly confident that was the case.

 

It is what it is. Those individuals that wish to use his animations can just add the animations as instructed by him( or another in his thread) and get what they want. There for awhile I though these animations were moving closer to being compatible with Sexout.

 

Every blue moon I see a tech support question with misalignment r/t this. Many times I am the person to inform the user what is what.. ..

 

That is basically what I do-add his animations and use his Breeze bodysuit. I get some misalignment on the older animations but not enough to cause me not to use his animations. Even on the misaligned ones, I can usually make minor adjustments with Sexout Positioning (if I press the right keys, that is).

[Guest tomm434]

I may suggest that anims (modders resources) can be added but not included in random picker. Win-win situation.

[prideslayer]

There may (I hesitate to say well, but signs point to yes) be a way in the future for user to share alignment settings via a simple file. It's something I've had on the sexout radar for a long time, but hasn't been a high priority. Once that's done, people will be able to share their files for use with his animations, or just for different bodies and whatnot.

 

Very early on when he only had 10 so animations made I found out about this mess and tried to work through it with him. It didn't really go anywhere and I'm pretty sure I asked him to just redo them with Breezes (and fix them to require 0 offset in sexout) and go forward from there. He declined, stating penis bone support.

 

At that point anyone with the knowhow (and I think he's in this group) could have weighted breezes to work with the penis bone, but nobody bothered.

 

Things got convoluted from then on for a bit until I just unsubscribed from the thread. :/

[prideslayer]

I may suggest that anims (modders resources) can be added but not included in random picker. Win-win situation.

Why would I add idles and package resources into sexout that won't work with it out of the box? I haven't done that ever before, and I'm not about to start.

 

The realistic "win win" solution here is for him (or someone) to step up and support a zaz style plugin. I create an (empty) anim group and assign a range. Somebody makes an ESP, overrides that group, and adds the animations in the GECK. That is all that's needed for non-random picker support.

 

Mods would check for it the same way they used to check for ZAZ.

[RitualClarity]

 

Very early on when he only had 10 so animations made I found out about this mess and tried to work through it with him. It didn't really go anywhere and I'm pretty sure I asked him to just redo them with Breezes (and fix them to require 0 offset in sexout) and go forward from there

yes you did do that. I remember. I don't remember what became of that conversation.

[RitualClarity]

 

The realistic "win win" solution here is for him (or someone) to step up and support a zaz style plugin. I create an (empty) anim group and assign a range. Somebody makes an ESP, overrides that group, and adds the animations in the GECK. That is all that's needed for non-random picker support.

 

Mods would check for it the same way they used to check for ZAZ.

That could also be something that can grow in the future. That is other ranges can be added for those that might like dancing or the such as well, correct? Could be a nice useful tool.

[prideslayer]

The ranges I give out are 'big'.. so they can be sub-divided by the mod author however they want. I gave zaz 10,000 for crying out loud. No reason to have him come begging me for more later because I didn't allocate enough to start with.

[RitualClarity]

The ranges I give out are 'big'.. so they can be sub-divided by the mod author however they want. I gave zaz 10,000 for crying out loud. No reason to have him come begging me for more later because I didn't allocate enough to start with.

 

 

[Odessa]

 

The realistic "win win" solution here is for him (or someone) to step up and support a zaz style plugin.

 

 

 

I can. I already did part of the work creating a ZAZ-style .esp to optionally use Amra's modders resources in Soliciting.

 

I agree with your stance though that it would be much better if they were converted to be sexout-compatible.

 

Unfortunately, the current situation is problematic for modders, because the replacer changes the positioning (confusing alignment for beds) and style of existing animations (the 69 becomes fellatio...).

 

Since a considerable ratio of players are using the replacer, but I currently can't tell who, scripting immersive scenes is frustrating- I am limited to using animations Amra has not replaced if I want to be sure it will turn out correctly for everyone.

[prideslayer]

I completely forgot that he was overwriting some of the sexout anim files. Obviously the addin mod would have to rename them so this docesn't happen. They should all be in their own folder structure, as ZAZ was, and not overwriting any assets unless they are 1:1 match with sextype and overall position.

 

Odessa if you want to take it on anyway, I'll PM you a range and get the idle group setup in the Sexout beta.

[RitualClarity]

Forgive this noobie question if the "zaz style" esp is created everything would work just as zaz did with the exception of alignment? (Sunny gets poked in the eye with kneeling blow job animation ) Correct? The reason I ask is there are mentions of "offsets" and I don't know how they work or how they effect the alignments. Not really important and sorry for the derailment. If this is added it would be great but I also agree that it would be better if everything was more "standardized", but I still have to respect Amra's right as a content creator to go in his own direction with his work.

 

Now back to the regularly scheduled show...

[prideslayer]

The short answer is "yes". If you have the "wrong" bodies for a particular animation, and you don't adjust the alignment (via offsets), then the alignment will not be right. In practice this means that using the default sexout bodies and alignments, all of Amras animations will be misaligned. The converse is also true -- using his bodies and animations, all the existing sexout animations will be misaligned.

 

The zaz style plugin is not a fix for that. What it is, is the only way I'm willing to "officially support" those animations so long as they remain so misaligned with the default bodies. It's a compromise. I don't have to include assets in Sexout that don't actually work properly with it, but others can add such support without having to override "private" records in the sexout ESM.

 

It's imperfect right now because the offsets in sexout are hard-coded. I've got scripts in progress that move them to arrays so that a mod could override the values there, but it's incomplete. It hasn't exactly been a high priority since only 3rd party mods gain a benefit from it -- specifically ones that either don't exist as yet (like this one), or already work with the current system (like astymma's positioning mod).

 

If Odessa (or someone) is really going to undertake this, then I'll bump up the priority of getting that refactoring done.

 

As for Amra, you're right. He and everyone else have absolutely every right in the world to do what they want, however they want to do it. I'm not really "upset" over any of this. I'm slightly annoyed that things weren't handled correctly from the start, but in the end, it just means less work for me.

 

Maybe one day I'll be "done" enough with Sexout's scripting and such to really spend some time getting over my hatred of blender and creating some replacement animations. Maybe not. Ideally though, I'd rather someone with the time and know-how would just step up and take sexout over for me.

 

I'm really quite tired of working on it and would rather move on to some actual mods.

 

Here's a tl;dr about the how & why of alignment stuff.

 

 

First off, alignment and offsets are two sides of the same coin. When an animation is created, the animator uses a skeleton and body meshes of their own choosing. If the animations are intended for sexout, they should be using the default sexout assets. That means the T6M female and breezes erect male. They can use any skeleton they wish as long as they don't animate bones that are not in astymma's skeleton.

 

That's the first step. During the animation export, they also need to ensure that they do not:

1. Adjust the position of bip01.

2. Adjust the SCALE of ANY bones, except perhaps the penis, if the skeleton uses that for erect/flaccid control.

 

If these instructions are followed then the exported animation files will be aligned and not require any offsets -- as an offset is a modification I must apply within sexout to get the animations lined back up properly due to incorrect export of the KF files. Sexout can apply translation and rotation offsets along all three axis, however for newly created animations, I'm resistant to making such adjustments.

 

It's easy for the animator to do things right, and doing so prevents the sexout scripts from getting bloated with offsets, and means I don't have to test every new animation that comes along to check that the offsets are right. This is why, as a rule, I won't accept any new animations that require offsets into sexout except under special circumstances. For example the cazador animation requires vertical offsets to take place in the air rather than on the ground.

 

 

 

[RitualClarity]

Thanks for the explanation Pride.

 

Just as I thought it would be easier because little or no offsets would be needed to be done when using the correct bodies in the first place. I assume that if animations like Amra's were re-imported back into blender and the change in bodies were added (if that is even possible ) it couldn't be just exported back out. The animations would have to be tweaked to match up inside blender then exported. Then and only then would they be compatible with Sexout and not have to be modified by offsets (or much if so).. This would apply to each and every one of the animations in question. It would be almost easier to recreate the animations at this point.. lol or so as I understand it.

 

 

 

I'd rather someone with the time and know-how would just step up and take sexout over for me.

It wouldn't be the same...

 

I'm really quite tired of working on it and would rather move on to some actual mods.

When.... after you finish recreating FOMM, adding support for Skyrim and Oblivion etc, or finishing the NX features and tweaking and improving NVSE?  

Although I think any mods you do create would be very interesting if you ever did get any time after the above to create a mod. Perhaps when Fallout 5 has been released in 2025..

 

[prideslayer]

Importing and adjusting animations in general can range from medium to hard difficulty. With what needs done to those, it is pushed towards the hard end of the scale. If amra still has his .blend file(s) and would share them, someone could take those and redo it. However as a rule, the "artistic" types (modelers, animators, texture creators) seem to be reluctant to share the source of their work with others. When is the last time you saw someone release a texture for some body or other and include a PSD with it and permission for people to do whatever they want? It almost never happens. This *does* get under my skin.

 

As for me n' mods.. well you're somewhat right, although NX and FOMM changes aren't super "important." What's there now works fine. The work left to do on them is stuff I want to do, not stuff that really "needs" to be done. I did start a "real" mod a year ago, maybe 18 months. Was a lot of work building interiors and stuff and it all went up in smoke with no backups. I have plans for a few different ones outlined, but haven't started on them yet.

 

Maybe someday.

 

And honestly I am really looking forward to the next fallout, as it'll rescue me from all this. Chances are high that it's going to use the Skyrim engine and that porting existing stuff will be pretty easy. That means as people slowly abandon FONV, the only existing thing I'll have to work on will be FOMM.

[RitualClarity]

 

I did start a "real" mod a year ago, maybe 18 months. Was a lot of work building interiors and stuff and it all went up in smoke with no backups.

Is this when your computer glitched?

 

I have plans for a few different ones outlined, but haven't started on them yet.

Can't wait

 

[D_ManXX2]

 

 

Just as I thought it would be easier because little or no offsets would be needed to be done when using the correct bodies in the first place. I assume that if animations like Amra's were re-imported back into blender and the change in bodies were added (if that is even possible ) it couldn't be just exported back out.

 

Good luck with that. if the animations are created without rigs then yes it would be pretty simple just importing it back in blender, but when an animations is really big or build by rigs then i don't think the current blender scripts will do really good job importing it back in blender, many times the scripts will simply hang or just simple crash blender in the process. 3Dmax is even worse in this department.

[prideslayer]

 

I did start a "real" mod a year ago, maybe 18 months. Was a lot of work building interiors and stuff and it all went up in smoke with no backups.

Is this when your computer glitched?

 

I lost it in a different glitch before that, actually. Bleh. That loss is what prompted me to buy some real backup software finally, which itself was failing to back up (and not alerting me) when the other failure occurred.

 

 

Just as I thought it would be easier because little or no offsets would be needed to be done when using the correct bodies in the first place. I assume that if animations like Amra's were re-imported back into blender and the change in bodies were added (if that is even possible ) it couldn't be just exported back out.

 

Good luck with that. if the animations are created without rigs then yes it would be pretty simple just importing it back in blender, but when an animations is really big or build by rigs then i don't think the current blender scripts will do really good job importing it back in blender, many times the scripts will simply hang or just simple crash blender in the process. 3Dmax is even worse in this department.

 

Yeah it can be a real pain in the ass if the creator didn't save (and share) their blender/max project files. I really don't understand why so few do share them. The rest of us are sharing everything. However I wouldn't blame Blender or MAX for the import difficulties. If anything, that's the fault of the plugin authors.

[Thenryb]

One of my characters has stopped "animating". I have attached a scof file showing attempts to have sex with Veronica using sexout sex key. I cannot make heads or tails of it. His inventory presently contains no tokens. Everything was working fine until my character decided to use the sexkey on April Martimer (payment for ED). After the act ended, he gave her ED-E and she disappeared as she always does. For some reason, the pc then began "screwing the air". After that ended, he went through the ragdoll animation and redressed. The next time he tried sex with anyone, there was no animation. There was a DONOTBUY or take token which I removed via console. Still no animation. I then disabled all sexout mods and made a clean save. The attached scof file was generated after re-enabling the sexout mods. 

 

 

 

Edit: After posting this, I googled a bit and ran across a thread about animations not playing and found a post which said "player.nx_clrevfl and player.nx_clrevfo" with no explanation. I decided to try those commands not knowing what the hell they did. After inputting those two commands, my character could not move, so I did "enableplayercontrols". Behold, the animations are now working. Those commands appeared to have gotten rid of whatever residual nonsense was still present after the player's encounter with April Martimer.

debug.txt

[prideslayer]

Holy smokes what did you do to that debug text file? Everything is on one long ass line now. There's one character that needs removed from the end of each line to make it "normal", not both of them!

 

I'll see if I can make sense of it but please send the "original" if you still have it.

[prideslayer]

Thenryb, after sorting out that txt file (next time please just send it "as-is", do not edit it) I don't see any "problems" with the locking, which is what the NX_Clr and inventory stuff will help with.

 

What I do see is the call sorter working properly, the randomizer working properly and picking an animation, and then..... nothing. This is very strange. It should have printed an error or the sex start messages. My best guess without knowing more is that you have some mod loaded that is overriding one or more of the sexout scripts and causing them to silently fail.

 

There are only two ways to check for this.

 

#1 is the easiest. Load up your entire active plugin list in fnvedit and run a conflict check (activate the default filter). If ANY mods are overriding anything in sexout.esm, disable them and see what happens.

 

#2 is more time consuming and is the standard debugging approach. Disable all the mods you can until the act starts to work, and then begin enabling them one or two at a time (or use a divide and conquer to narrow it down) until you find the mod(s) responsible.

[Thenryb]

Thenryb, after sorting out that txt file (next time please just send it "as-is", do not edit it) I don't see any "problems" with the locking, which is what the NX_Clr and inventory stuff will help with.

 

What I do see is the call sorter working properly, the randomizer working properly and picking an animation, and then..... nothing. This is very strange. It should have printed an error or the sex start messages. My best guess without knowing more is that you have some mod loaded that is overriding one or more of the sexout scripts and causing them to silently fail.

 

There are only two ways to check for this.

 

#1 is the easiest. Load up your entire active plugin list in fnvedit and run a conflict check (activate the default filter). If ANY mods are overriding anything in sexout.esm, disable them and see what happens.

 

#2 is more time consuming and is the standard debugging approach. Disable all the mods you can until the act starts to work, and then begin enabling them one or two at a time (or use a divide and conquer to narrow it down) until you find the mod(s) responsible.

 

Thanks for looking at that. I am not aware of doing anything to edit the file, but I no longer have the original. After applying those two commands, the attached log was generated. (SSSFuck is the sexout strap-on mod btw). The April Martimer sex referred to was initiated via dialogue with that mod. I suspect that what I had was a singular situation where she disappeared from the game without having the "tokens" cleared. In fact there were several messages which appeared in the console referring to her. For some reason (not editing by me) those messages were not reflected in the debug text file. 

debug1.txt