MSMA: SexFight (like "Succubus Drain") and Bimbofication

[MSM_Alice]

1 hour ago, rilieAP said:

I had the setting, I just hadn't done the refresh.  I know you don't use NAF, but we fixed this before.  I'm guessing it's the refresh issue.

Perhaps. 
That also auto refreshes every time a new violate scene starts, and when you bimbo-level-up. 

[rilieAP]

Hitting refresh after setting it to active and forced on fixed it.  Maybe add a message on the modpage that just says something like this, so others won't have to ask.

 

For NAF users if you are sure you have the High Head Count animations installed correctly. In the MCM go to 3rd Party Mods Simple Settings, set Allow Human AAF Violate scenes > 5P for Bimbo Lvl 3+ to "2".  Then on the 3rd Party Mods Load Validation tab, set the high headcount validated to "1".  Lastly click Refresh AAF Violate settings for your Bimbo level on the 3rd Party Mods Simple Settings tab.  After the first violate scenario, open console and run this command help AFV_Global_Threesome_Max_Human.  If it returns 10, then your will be able to works with higher headcounts as your Bimbo level increases.

 

Edit - BTW, if you don't remember, I'm the person that helped you with the NAF high headcount, and adding the little message in the MCM a couple weeks ago. That's why I said they were working and I didn't know if you had changed anything since then, that might have broken it without knowing about it. I did the BBC tattoos resourceIDs for you too.

Edited August 8, 2025 by rilieAP

[MSM_Alice]

1 hour ago, rilieAP said:

Hitting refresh after setting it to active and forced on fixed it.  Maybe add a message on the modpage that just says something like this, so others won't have to ask.

 

For NAF users if you are sure you have the High Head Count animations installed correctly. In the MCM go to 3rd Party Mods Simple Settings, set Allow Human AAF Violate scenes > 5P for Bimbo Lvl 3+ to "2".  Then on the 3rd Party Mods Load Validation tab, set the high headcount validated to "1".  Lastly click Refresh AAF Violate settings for your Bimbo level on the 3rd Party Mods Simple Settings tab.  After the first violate scenario, open console and run this command help AFV_Global_Threesome_Max_Human.  If it returns 10, then your will be able to works with higher headcounts as your Bimbo level increases.

Will add a note but of the above only really this step should be needed: 
 In the MCM go to 3rd Party Mods Simple Settings, set Allow Human AAF Violate scenes > 5P for Bimbo Lvl 3+ to "2". 
Setting that to 2 instead of 1 is all there is to it.
 

All others don't really do anything crucial  (like setting the one in the Load validation page which is a read only info page is not relevant)
The other refreshes normally anyway the first time a new violate scene would start or a bimbo level up would occur.
That refresh button only forces that to occur once more ahead of time, but the refresh would happen either way regardless.
 
 

Edited August 8, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[MSM_Alice]

I think found the root of the issue  reported by @JemappelleRedacted

I'm actually amazed is not more widespread. 

The core of it is that I do some  things on violate scene start,  based on two separate events that Violate fires: 
RegisterForCustomEvent(FPV_Script, "Vin_Event_Suspend")

and 

RegisterForCustomEvent(FPV_M_Script, "OnSurrender")

And I assumed these two events would fire practically at the same time, or close by. 
A function that I launched based on the first event waits about 2 more seconds before requesting an array with the aggressors, that is populated by a function fired by the second event, and it usually works out okay (used to be 4 seconds before).

However in the case of the issue reported by @JemappelleRedacted,  if the second events seemed to have been delayed, and fired  more than two seconds After the first event, then the aggressor list did not populate correctly, came back empty,  things went off tracks.

 

@JemappelleRedacted
This should be corrected, but I am amazed it was not a more widespread problem.

 

@rilieAP this should also have the paralysis insta kill option with Mister SandMan Perk ( but only kicks in after bimbo level 2 after you get the " kill via sexfight" ability)

@Mimirue17 this also has the XMLs updated  with the extra tags for the redefined Anims already in it.

Anyway, I  will test more until I put it on the main page. 
 

 

Edited February 19 by MSM_Alice

[MSM_Alice]

ok , new version is up on the main page: 
 

0.7722 - mid playthrough should be okay. 

• Fixed a bug where aggressors list sourced from Violate could sometimes not be filled out correctly in MSMA if the script load was high. 
• Added option to Mister Sandman insta-kill sexfight-paralyzed opponents (if the player is bimbo level 2+ and has the Mister Sandman Perk).  Can be turned off in the MCM.
• Added proper tags to the redefined high headcount animations. 
• Marina's brunch alcohol effect is now applied post dialogue scene, not at the start. 
   

Edited August 9, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[JemappelleRedacted]

  

15 hours ago, MSM_Alice said:

 

While I am not completely ruling out a psycho bomber bimbo build, it is not at the forefront of the development priorities right now.  
I guess it could be like a Harley Quinn Bimbo equivalent, and SJ could be like her Joker figure, but do I want to simply rehash that premise for the umpteenth time, just that in the Fallout universe with a bimbo flavor? Probably not. Probably seeking something different is more interesting.

Depending on how much enthusiasm I end up having in the tank for this over the years, I might lean into a "multiple universes" side of things that Misty mentioned at the start, and as a side quest, you get placeswapped with a universe where that psycho bomber bimbo build paradigm is in effect. At least for a while. 
 

If you think about it, the crown for number one raider psycho duo has to go to the Overboss and Nora on the NukaRide Nora route, where she embraces Harlowe's overbitch legacy. 
Probably Nora and Hancock in Triggerwoman have to take the Gangster/mafia duo crown.
Bimbo Implanted Nora and SJ, the dildomaker need to have a different flavour as a duo. I want it to make it wackier, but not necessarily murder-y psychosis.
The vibe that I wish I could pull off would be: " female James Bond/ Mission Impossible meets Leslie Nielsen's Naked Gun, but make it a smutty musical with  C.M. Nascosta as a writing advisor.". Easy-peasy.
 

 

 

Fixing up Sanctuary, at least until the turrets are done, when Sturges says Sanctuary is done, can be done at Bimbo  level 1 (maybe even level 0 with enough care) 
And I am not talking about doing it in old school fashion, without ever visiting Wedge (but remember that IS an option too!), but doing all 4initial Wedge sessions, without triggering a level up.
With care and proper loadout (Clothing, piercings, alcohol, cleaning up and taking breaks in between, and plenty of burnable fuel for emergency AP,  and maybe without sex addiction as fuel for AP. Turned that off).

After that, when the generator and antenna session starts and WEdge and friends start using NukaRush, from that point on level 0 is no longer a viable option.
But again,  visiting Wedge is very much a choice, not mandatory.

Oh, I'm not asking for Bimbomber to be a thing, I was just sad I couldn't do it at the moment. Depending on stealth and pickpocket skills, you can just do that anyway in vanilla...and it's arguably more psycho to put a mine near them when they can see but not move. Just saying lol

I'd also argue Norita/Pup can get even more deranged than Nora/Bitch based on my last run, and I'm looking forward to a Rule 63 Archer story 😂

 

RE Sanc, I more meant in terms of quest flow it's so contained you feel like you should get them out of the way ASAP so you can move on and leave them in a functional state. That said, my revised approach seems to work better: Mutie with an M60 put me down, rather than focus on breaking him I focused on not breaking and only had a 12% increase towards B-2!

 

5 hours ago, MSM_Alice said:

This should be corrected, but I am amazed it was not a more widespread problem.

 

@rilieAP this should also have the paralysis insta kill option with Mister SandMan Perk ( but only kicks in after bimbo level 2 after you get the " kill via sexfight" ability)

@Mimirue17 this also has the XMLs updated  with the extra tags for the redefined Anims already in it.
 

Yeah, my setup is that annoying kind of "SPECIAL" it seems 😜 I'll check the update next crash.

Figured out the quest-anim fail too, it's using Indarello/Creature Assets nomenclature rather than UAP, so it's a closely related animation (floor-02 rather than -01. Staged Anim XMLS would be a huge boon, getting rid of all the stages in favour of the staged ones, but I'm reluctant to mess with something so fundamental 😒

 

Didn't know Marina gave booze, will have to chat with her again. Skal!

[lordsnight]

On 8/7/2025 at 11:33 PM, MSM_Alice said:

Thank you so much for the feedback!

And logs!

 

@lordsnight

Hello
The collision is very much in there in the vanilla game. It only gets deactivated after the salesman does his thing.
Haven't heard anyone saying they had a problem with pre-war segment, but  did another pass on any topics from in work quests that i have and made sure they weren' t activating. Please see the new 0.7720 if it is better.  
Other than an errant topic, not really seeing how MSMA could have something to do with it directly, as MSMA does not do anything until you get out of the vault post war, but an errant topic without conditions could hijack other convos.

@SquareBun 
Hmm... interesting... with think about it.

@rilieAP
Yep, a reversed vector would explain why Piete (the last in the vector) is on the receiving end on NAF. 

@Mimirue17 Maybe nipples.  I have added some extra conditions so that the nipples will only reset to normal while outside of the AAF scene ( before I had assume a reset to normal is harmless to happen during AAF scene).

Please see the new 0.7720 if it is better.  

Tats are indeed applied at the start and mid scene even if you defeat them if those setting to do so are on in the MCM. Not a bug.
Have you toggled off / managed your tats conditions in the MCM? 
By default the mod comes with a 50% chance of tats on start, that happens regardless if you win or not. 


@JemappelleRedacted
Hmm odd indeed. Will double check but never happened in my tests.
Are you sure the KFT device being equiped wasn't   in fact applied at the start of the scene, because violate was set to apply restraint at the start? 
And had nothing to do with how well you defeated the raiders?
Did you see that notification" all enemies are punished via sexfight?" 

Can you give me more details or a log from such an occurrence?

i see, but still weird cause when i disable MSMA, suddenly work normal and nothing wrong, when i try to enabled back and new game, it bug back again. Mentioned about the version, i never try with the 0.7720 version  from the new game, so i will try. if it's still bug, i let you know, thanks btw

[lordsnight]

On 8/7/2025 at 11:33 PM, MSM_Alice said:

Thank you so much for the feedback!

And logs!

 

@lordsnight

Hello
The collision is very much in there in the vanilla game. It only gets deactivated after the salesman does his thing.
Haven't heard anyone saying they had a problem with pre-war segment, but  did another pass on any topics from in work quests that i have and made sure they weren' t activating. Please see the new 0.7720 if it is better.  
Other than an errant topic, not really seeing how MSMA could have something to do with it directly, as MSMA does not do anything until you get out of the vault post war, but an errant topic without conditions could hijack other convos.

@SquareBun 
Hmm... interesting... with think about it.

@rilieAP
Yep, a reversed vector would explain why Piete (the last in the vector) is on the receiving end on NAF. 

@Mimirue17 Maybe nipples.  I have added some extra conditions so that the nipples will only reset to normal while outside of the AAF scene ( before I had assume a reset to normal is harmless to happen during AAF scene).

Please see the new 0.7720 if it is better.  

Tats are indeed applied at the start and mid scene even if you defeat them if those setting to do so are on in the MCM. Not a bug.
Have you toggled off / managed your tats conditions in the MCM? 
By default the mod comes with a 50% chance of tats on start, that happens regardless if you win or not. 


@JemappelleRedacted
Hmm odd indeed. Will double check but never happened in my tests.
Are you sure the KFT device being equiped wasn't   in fact applied at the start of the scene, because violate was set to apply restraint at the start? 
And had nothing to do with how well you defeated the raiders?
Did you see that notification" all enemies are punished via sexfight?" 

Can you give me more details or a log from such an occurrence?

i see, but still weird cause when i disable MSMA, suddenly work normal and nothing wrong, when i try to enabled back and new game, it bug back again. Mentioned about the version, i never try with the 0.7720 version  from the new game, so i will try. if it's still bug, i let you know, thanks btw

[MSM_Alice]

51 minutes ago, lordsnight said:

i see, but still weird cause when i disable MSMA, suddenly work normal and nothing wrong, when i try to enabled back and new game, it bug back again. Mentioned about the version, i never try with the 0.7720 version  from the new game, so i will try. if it's still bug, i let you know, thanks btw

Yes, it might have been because of that errant topic. 
It was removed on 0.7722 ( and on 0.7720)

Just test on the latest one, 0.7722.
 

[rilieAP]

Found what I think could be another issue that reverted, the BBC tats selector doesn't seen to work correctly.  It did, but one of the updates seems to have changed something, now raiders are back to their normal tattoo set, not the BBC set, regardless of MCM setting.

[lordsnight]

9 hours ago, MSM_Alice said:

Yes, it might have been because of that errant topic. 
It was removed on 0.7722 ( and on 0.7720)

Just test on the latest one, 0.7722.
 

okay, i already test new game with version 0.7722 and it still bug on me, idk why... is it in any case conflict with other mod? but i didn't use any mod that will happen on start or anything that changing the vault tech agent, but again, if it's caused by other mod i have, it should still bug when i disable MSMA, but in my case, when i disable MSMA and start new game, it works perfectly. But i still can use your mod by enabling it when we get out from the house and heading to the vault, i save there and exit the game, then enabling MSMA mod and load the save, and it's perfectly normal after that, the only problem is on the vault tech guy... kinda sad for me.... help...

[Mimirue17]

33 minutes ago, lordsnight said:

okay, i already test new game with version 0.7722 and it still bug on me, idk why... is it in any case conflict with other mod? but i didn't use any mod that will happen on start or anything that changing the vault tech agent, but again, if it's caused by other mod i have, it should still bug when i disable MSMA, but in my case, when i disable MSMA and start new game, it works perfectly. But i still can use your mod by enabling it when we get out from the house and heading to the vault, i save there and exit the game, then enabling MSMA mod and load the save, and it's perfectly normal after that, the only problem is on the vault tech guy... kinda sad for me.... help...

You might try this - use start me up redux https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/56984, after character creation walk forward - choose middle option (this is a memory I do not want to relive this I believe) which should start you in the cryo pod in the vault and go forward from there.   It works flawlessly with this mod as well as Nuka Ride (or use the patch for NR and start outside the vault) though I prefer to start IN the vault as mods seem to start up cleaner that way.

 

Edit: I also had issue with the Vault-Tec guy either not responding or acting weird - or other weird things going on in that intro sequence (with MSMA installed never issues without it).   The start me up and starting in the vault is the cleanest way I know to start new games (I do regularly like 2-3 times a week it seems)

Edited August 10, 2025 by Mimirue17

[Mimirue17]

I am wondering is Marina and Misty even being present but not activated is the cause of the issues doing the full start - intro scene (easily fixed by using start me up redux).   

 

I have also noticed that Misty moves every new iteration of the mod when i start new games - one she will be next to the big metal boxes - the next one she will be 10 feet away from there.   It literally changes every single time I start a new game.   

 

The other oddity is when you talk to Preston for the 1st time - Mama Murphy and Jun are in correct place one time - then in a totally different place the next - like Jun will be IN the Desk and Mama Murphy will be behind the couch.   Sometimes Sturges dialogue will show up in subtilties sometime not, that whole scene goes wacko at times.   This last start I did Misty was by crates - but the Sturges lines did not show up (he speaks fine which is not part of this mod anyways) and Jun and MM were out of place.   

Of note I had to use sexfight on groups 2 and 3 (2nd and 3rd group AFTER the initial 3 which are the problem children with MSMA installed) as I ran out of ammo....I would caution anyone to use sexfight inside that building at all to be honest!   There are parts that are blocked off underneath (bathroom, stairway and a few rooms) and if you use sexfight they may choose to use furniture there and you get stuck and can not get out without using console.    If there was a way to block furniture inside that building that would probably solve this but I have had it happen twice now and I think that is what throws off the rest of the events being spot on - just a theory though.

[MSM_Alice]

3 hours ago, Mimirue17 said:

I am wondering is Marina and Misty even being present but not activated is the cause of the issues doing the full start - intro scene (easily fixed by using start me up redux).   

 

I have also noticed that Misty moves every new iteration of the mod when i start new games - one she will be next to the big metal boxes - the next one she will be 10 feet away from there.   It literally changes every single time I start a new game.   

 

The other oddity is when you talk to Preston for the 1st time - Mama Murphy and Jun are in correct place one time - then in a totally different place the next - like Jun will be IN the Desk and Mama Murphy will be behind the couch.   Sometimes Sturges dialogue will show up in subtilties sometime not, that whole scene goes wacko at times.   This last start I did Misty was by crates - but the Sturges lines did not show up (he speaks fine which is not part of this mod anyways) and Jun and MM were out of place.   

Of note I had to use sexfight on groups 2 and 3 (2nd and 3rd group AFTER the initial 3 which are the problem children with MSMA installed) as I ran out of ammo....I would caution anyone to use sexfight inside that building at all to be honest!   There are parts that are blocked off underneath (bathroom, stairway and a few rooms) and if you use sexfight they may choose to use furniture there and you get stuck and can not get out without using console.    If there was a way to block furniture inside that building that would probably solve this but I have had it happen twice now and I think that is what throws off the rest of the events being spot on - just a theory though.

I actually went back and did the vanilla start and tested, and I was able to talk with the vault guy with no problem, on OG (did not test on NG though) .
There was an errant empty convo topic that could have caused issues with the Vault tech guy, that  I specifically corrected on 0.7720 and 0.7722
However after installing 0.7720 or 0.7722 a new game needs to be started in earnest, so the new quest and the new topics are initialized, and not the old problematic ones.  If it is just loading a save just before the vault tech guy rings the door,  and updated to 0.7720 but the game start moment itself was started before installing 0.7720, then it is no good.
In that case the problematic quest and problematic topic were already loaded in memory by then and are active in that save.


Unless a papyrus log is provided captured from the situation there's very little insight we can draw on.
@lordsnight


@rilieAP I'll take another look at the tattoo pools, see what might have happened.
Edit: all looks in order.  I'll hadd more traces to understand what happens.
If you look with the console, what values does the MSMA_Setting_BBCRaiderTags global variable have? . Should be on 1.0  if you want the BBC specific pool. 0.0 otherwise.

@Mimirue17 That's just the furniture settings in Violate that you need to tweak. 

The bug with Sturges speaking his lines but not with subtitles when he is a museum captive,, when he talks about his plan and the fusion core  i got that over the years almost always, since 2016. 
Misty is normal to move around she as a ~5 meter freedom of movement range in her AI package.

Edited August 10, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[JemappelleRedacted]

  

On 8/9/2025 at 10:30 AM, MSM_Alice said:

ok , new version is up on the main page: 
 

0.7722 - mid playthrough should be okay. 

• Fixed a bug where aggressors list sourced from Violate could sometimes not be filled out correctly in MSMA if the script load was high. 
• Added option to Mister Sandman insta-kill sexfight-paralyzed opponents (if the player is bimbo level 2+ and has the Mister Sandman Perk).  Can be turned off in the MCM.
• Added proper tags to the redefined high headcount animations. 
• Marina's brunch alcohol effect is now applied post dialogue scene, not at the start. 
   

Yay, death by Snu-Snu! 90% fixed, had one act weird but I suspect that's more based on the Frenzied clipping me with MG3 fire than anything in the script. 

 

Turns out, now that that bastard Behemoth caught me, I can say the Bimbo Actions aren't working right for me. Looks like it's calling 2 speech events (2x "..." comments on screen), giggle kicks happily but pose gets eaten by a standard talking gesture (the waving the hand low one with lips moving). Strange, because it was working 7702 but started acting up in 7707.

 

Random thoughts/wishes/general discussion topics based on sandbox play, feel free to skip.

Abstinence somehow speed-ran B2-B4, the CVT were listed as tracking to B3.

Trying to feed those cravings is tough and looks like even 2-3 days would be enough to bank up to the slippery slope to B2-B4

Perversion resets: so 1 mutie = Perversion 3, then a Bimbo level up removes it. That level up was almost entirely that mutie though? And let's face it, if she came enough for her brain to leak out of her ear maybe she should have that perversion? Soften the debuffs rather than remove all levels?

Trying traps to get "friendly" muties at a settlement could be interesting.

Is the script set to round Int down to 1, or is it an absolute value? Tried to fix the Constitution without visiting Poseidon and B3 kicked in, so off to raider-ville I go.

Harassment: pity it doesn't keep up with Bimbo level, an intercept for Buttslaps, Blackmail, Fan, and Molest actions is probably harder than rebuilding from the ground up but it's a bummer my PC gets sad when she finds nude pictures of herself in loot.

Really wish there was a way to start a prostitution 3+ scene other than Wedge or NR. Having MSMA skill increase pay would be pretty cool, but again adding integrations could be dicey.

 

Right, back to Fusion City to get the best rad suit around: Black Thong Bikini! (shame about the morph blocking but hey, 1000Rad resist is worth it!)

 

1 hour ago, Mimirue17 said:

You might try this - use start me up redux https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/56984, after character creation walk forward - choose middle option (this is a memory I do not want to relive this I believe) which should start you in the cryo pod in the vault and go forward from there.   It works flawlessly with this mod as well as Nuka Ride (or use the patch for NR and start outside the vault) though I prefer to start IN the vault as mods seem to start up cleaner that way.

 

Edit: I also had issue with the Vault-Tec guy either not responding or acting weird - or other weird things going on in that intro sequence (with MSMA installed never issues without it).   The start me up and starting in the vault is the cleanest way I know to start new games (I do regularly like 2-3 times a week it seems)

I thought SKK FastStart was preferred? I swear someone on NR said it was less prone to issues than SMU Redux.

[Mimirue17]

8 minutes ago, JemappelleRedacted said:

  

Yay, death by Snu-Snu! 90% fixed, had one act weird but I suspect that's more based on the Frenzied clipping me with MG3 fire than anything in the script. 

 

Turns out, now that that bastard Behemoth caught me, I can say the Bimbo Actions aren't working right for me. Looks like it's calling 2 speech events (2x "..." comments on screen), giggle kicks happily but pose gets eaten by a standard talking gesture (the waving the hand low one with lips moving). Strange, because it was working 7702 but started acting up in 7707.

 

Random thoughts/wishes/general discussion topics based on sandbox play, feel free to skip.

Abstinence somehow speed-ran B2-B4, the CVT were listed as tracking to B3.

Trying to feed those cravings is tough and looks like even 2-3 days would be enough to bank up to the slippery slope to B2-B4

Perversion resets: so 1 mutie = Perversion 3, then a Bimbo level up removes it. That level up was almost entirely that mutie though? And let's face it, if she came enough for her brain to leak out of her ear maybe she should have that perversion? Soften the debuffs rather than remove all levels?

Trying traps to get "friendly" muties at a settlement could be interesting.

Is the script set to round Int down to 1, or is it an absolute value? Tried to fix the Constitution without visiting Poseidon and B3 kicked in, so off to raider-ville I go.

Harassment: pity it doesn't keep up with Bimbo level, an intercept for Buttslaps, Blackmail, Fan, and Molest actions is probably harder than rebuilding from the ground up but it's a bummer my PC gets sad when she finds nude pictures of herself in loot.

Really wish there was a way to start a prostitution 3+ scene other than Wedge or NR. Having MSMA skill increase pay would be pretty cool, but again adding integrations could be dicey.

 

Right, back to Fusion City to get the best rad suit around: Black Thong Bikini! (shame about the morph blocking but hey, 1000Rad resist is worth it!)

 

I thought SKK FastStart was preferred? I swear someone on NR said it was less prone to issues than SMU Redux.

if you choose the option to start in the vault, nothing is changed to main quest.   Starting anyway that is not the sole survivor or outside the vault DOES mess with main story and where the issues start (unless patched by mods).   Using the elevator to exit vault is where most of the mods start up that have not already run at completion of character creation.   I tried SKK and it does work fine as well.   There are a lot of mods (NR included) that have patches to work with SMU as its been around for a long time and is pretty regularly used.   Skipping the intro sequence is a bonus and can avoid any issues there.

[MSM_Alice]

  

3 hours ago, JemappelleRedacted said:

  

Yay, death by Snu-Snu! 90% fixed, had one act weird but I suspect that's more based on the Frenzied clipping me with MG3 fire than anything in the script. 

 

Thank you for confirming.
That that machine gun fight might be a thing that happens. What's important for a normal playthrough is for them ( the enemies) to do their thing  (frenzy /para) immediately after the scene ends , and not some  30 seconds plus later,  via the emergency fallback activation when the violate peace bubble expires. 

It seems that finally started happening for you with more consistency.

The way I try to avoid the issue of frenzy based re-engagement are these ways:
1. In theory, the frenzied actors monitor/manager should tell the all frenzied actors who have as a target the player to lower their weapons and briefly stop the combat (hoping they'd pick another target when they re-engage)  , but that monitor  does not run "heavily"  like "on update",  so as to keep things light, there's a 2-3 second window where a frenzied might really target the player and will be allowed to do so.
2. The player when exiting an AAF sex scene should have a BIG buff in armor /defense for like ~ 10 seconds or so.  So a random bullet would matter less.
3. There should have been SOME orgasm-based healing happening in that AAF scene, so the player should be a bit above surrender health level now. 

So all in all, frenzy base re-surrendering  it shouldn't be a frequent scenario, but agreed, not impossible if frenzy is used. 
But maybe I should add some 4 second wait before frenzy effect kicks  in though, to allow the player to bravely run away a bit, so the frenzy fights are more likely to occur just among enemies. 
 

 

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Turns out, now that that bastard Behemoth caught me, I can say the Bimbo Actions aren't working right for me. Looks like it's calling 2 speech events (2x "..." comments on screen), giggle kicks happily but pose gets eaten by a standard talking gesture (the waving the hand low one with lips moving). Strange, because it was working 7702 but started acting up in 7707.

Seeing that event with the "..." in subtitles 3x still means one event and it is normal.
It is actually done by the means of a scene, with has three stages with the " ..." so there's enough time to see the anim (ignore the "start phase" ... that never plays, that is just there for compatibility so the system works) . The scene is manually started. It is done this way so I can use the anti-swimming conditions with can be attached on a scene stage to play or not, (but cannot be directly used in a papyrus script)).

 

Assuming you do not have DLOH installed?
And the default magnolia idle did not get populated/initialized for some reason.
Will have to add a button in Debug to force re-init of these idles to see if that fixes it.

 

 

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Random thoughts/wishes/general discussion topics based on sandbox play, feel free to skip.

 

Not sure I understand what this is.


 

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Abstinence somehow speed-ran B2-B4, the CVT were listed as tracking to B3.

Also not fully understand what this is or why is it an issue.

It sounds that, at Bimbo level 2, you got into some spicy events that set your Bimbo levle target to level 3 ...  It just took a while to get there (to bimbo level 3 ) as bimbo progress is not necessarily instantaneous, it can happen over a few days;   but even though you had an ample window of opportunity to stop your progression, you took no bespoke actions to correct that during level 2 (aside abstinence);   you could have visited the de-bimbo school, before actually hitting the threshold of leveling up to level 3. Sounds that the bimbo report was correctly warning you that the CVT stats you were tracking towards ware those of a level 3 bimbo, and not a level 2, but you didn't consider that a serious thing, and chose to not care about it, or thought that simply abstinence would correct it on its own (it does not). 
 
Also on a separate note, even if the absence of spicy events.... abstinence works for non bimbos or at level 0 or 1.
Once cravings start, simply not fulfilling those cravings means the implant dials up your CVTs because of it. This is underlined in the cravings report.

So it is arguably better to fulfill those cravings on your terms, and, if further needed, manage your CVT increases at the de bimbo school (if the other methods of colling down your CVTs are not enough).  and appease the implant this way, than just being abstinent and ignoring your cravings.
Once the path to bimbohood is started, the implant will dial those CVT up for you to make you submit, if you are not fulfilling your daily or weekly collection duties.
The moment abstinence worked was before being implanted, or at level 0 or 1, not at bimbo level 2 and up. Abstinence is no longer the ideal an option then.


 

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Trying to feed those cravings is tough and looks like even 2-3 days would be enough to bank up to the slippery slope to B2-B4

Perversion resets: so 1 mutie = Perversion 3, then a Bimbo level up removes it. That level up was almost entirely that mutie though? And let's face it, if she came enough for her brain to leak out of her ear maybe she should have that perversion? Soften the debuffs rather than remove all levels?

Those various heal on level up are important. I want them to stay, otherwise progression is too hard to control. 
I mean unless that mutie was  high level mutie, considerably higher level than the player,  one mutie   shouldn' t necessarily mean one bimbo level-up for the player, no matter what. 
From Bimbo level 0 yes,  but from Bimbo levels 1 or 2 ... not necessarily.  Yes if the mutie itself is high level then yes.. ,   but if the player is level 10 character , no handicaps, (and Bimbo level 2),  and using bimbo gear and decent set-up, and some emergency AP reserves , and the mutant is level 10 character too,  and the player has a larger size from previous encounters, a size appropriate for taking in muties'... hardware, then that sex-fight, even with an enemy as difficult as a mutie,  is far from a foregone conclusion... that fight should be pretty even, maybe even slanted in favor of the player. ( if player is too small then yes the mutie has a big edge in overwhelming the player with pleasure, true) .


From Bimbo level 3 and up, it should be that almost never meeting a regular solo mutie  would be  so extreme in itself, that it triggers a level up on its own right then and there. 

 

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Is the script set to round Int down to 1, or is it an absolute value? Tried to fix the Constitution without visiting Poseidon and B3 kicked in, so off to raider-ville I go.

 

 

1 is not a predetermined value. It is computed.

The initial implant takes down Int by 2, from whatever you have.
Then each bimbo level up takes down int by an additional 1. 

That means at bimbo level 7, even if you had your SPECIAL int 10, you end up with Int 1, as
10  - 2(initial) -1*7(levels) =1
You go still get to keep any bonuses for equipment or mentats and such.

The story will also provide you with some tonics and mental exercises allowing you to temporarily recover some of your int for key moments, (if not aroused).

 

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Really wish there was a way to start a prostitution 3+ scene other than Wedge or NR. Having MSMA skill increase pay would be pretty cool, but again adding integrations could be dicey.

I did consider it briefly, but in the end it will be MSMA centric dialogue that would eventually allow for that ( the quest stub with the empty topic that I was suspecting was interfering with the vault tech guy is actually part of that future system). 

Up to bimbo levle3 -4 and if arousal is not high, the player might even have enough self-control request payment for it , at level 5+ will probably do it anyway even if payment is denied, and at level 7 will just volunteer to do it for free. 

 

 

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Harassment: pity it doesn't keep up with Bimbo level, an intercept for Buttslaps, Blackmail, Fan, and Molest actions is probably harder than rebuilding from the ground up but it's a bummer my PC gets sad when she finds nude pictures of herself in loot.

After prelude is done I am not opposed to do a pass over popular mods and try to squeeze in some interplay . What I do NOT want to do is edit their scripts or alter their data. Integration needs to be achievable externally , in a non destructive way. 
Thigs like  frameworks that fire off events when things happen within them are more likely to be successfully added, than mods that do internal things without external visibility or events, related to what they do, and why they do what they do. 

 

Edited August 10, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[JemappelleRedacted]

1 hour ago, MSM_Alice said:

  

So all in all, frenzy base re-surrendering  it shouldn't be a frequent scenario, but agreed, not impossible if frenzy is used. 
But maybe I should add some 4 second wait before frenzy effect kicks  in though, to allow the player to bravely run away a bit, so the frenzy fights are more likely to occur just among enemies. 
 

I'd call it working as intended now, problem exists between Keyboard and Chair 😜

 

2 hours ago, MSM_Alice said:

Assuming you do not have DLOH installed?

I do have DLOH, and it worked great in 7702: zoom out, lock controls, play idle, return control and zoom in. Since 7707 it's been zooming out, using a standard conversation anim and getting interrupted by me moving anyway since it missed the control lock.

 

2 hours ago, MSM_Alice said:

Not sure I understand what this is.

"Random thoughts" was exactly that, things that struck me during that session that I thought other users might have thoughts, ideas, suggestions, or opinions on (but you could just disregard and not reply to lol).

 

2 hours ago, MSM_Alice said:

Also not fully understand what this is or why is it an issue.

 

I got into a single Mutant event at 2, the debug said I was trending for 2, and I was on a long expedition so I didn't get a chance to blow off steam and was fighting well so no Violates. I assumed the arousal and Slut increase wasn't impacting CVT, so I was wrong and the underlying system suckerpunched me. Again, not an issue, a discussion topic.

 

2 hours ago, MSM_Alice said:

one mutie   shouldn' t necessarily mean one bimbo level-up for the player, no matter what

Since she was fundamentally a B1 playstyle that bumped up to B2 on a long expedition, and it was an unplanned encounter there was no way for prep so she started tired, thirsty, and exceedingly horny. 

 

2 hours ago, MSM_Alice said:

The initial implant takes down Int by 2, from whatever you have.
Then each bimbo level up takes down int by an additional 1. 

That tracks, I was saving up for some legendary gear but, well, I went down past Natick for that cute bikini and now there's no hope 😂 There were also no survivors.

 

2 hours ago, MSM_Alice said:

I did consider it briefly, but in the end it will be MSMA centric dialogue

This one was more in the hope someone would know of a mod that covers it: SEU, MCG, Hardship don't seem to have group prostitution options, Hardship has parties and SEU has free threesomes, but that's not quite going to scratch that craving. At this point she'd probably quite happily work through DC if there was a way to do so, paid or not lol. Maybe Life of the Party from PVPK...Vadim won't be happy though!

 

2 hours ago, MSM_Alice said:

After prelude is done I am not opposed to do a pass over popular mods

Yeah, this one was wishful thinking anyway: as I've said, you've got enough on your plate that trying to wrangle Harassment as well is probably not worth diverting your attention away from the story.

[MSM_Alice]

I currently am building the Extra Planar Tribunal, who, among other things, can  yank the player from death's doorstep and put them through trial in a " limbo" like setting (for not being a bimbo enough and surrendering to avoid death in the first place).
And then they will be returned to the world of the living, probably with higher CVTs so they know to do  better the next time around.
That mechanic will be done by setting the player as essential, and monitoring for the bleedout state. 
 
This has the potential to mess with other story mods too, and I want it to be as elegant as possible. 
(From the editor screen, yes the three extraplanar entity judges are "giants" in limbo).

 

 

I'm tagging @JB. to see if he might provide some insider info, so I can determine with greater accuracy best practices /best way to increase compatibility with Nuka Ride and Commonwealth Slavers

For Commonwealth Slavers, I don' t think this limbo save can (or should) work in any capacity together so I'd rather just disable Sexfight punishing effects (death,paralysis or frenzy) and  also let death unfold if the player  is an active slave (has the Slavers collar equipped) when it happens. Yes the Slavers' bomb collar jams the brain implant device somehow.
JB, what Object Reference FormID  (or what other aspects) do you recommend I should check for (aside the slavers plugin being installed), to correctly determine that the player is an active Slave (the mod hasn't concluded/ player was not freed)? 
I am assuming this is " The collar is equipped", or  would you rather I would check certain stages from certain quests, or maybe a global variable to poll for this status instead?

Wha tis the most robust way of doing is, that ideally would work across Slavers updates too. 

 

For NukaRide premise , the MSMA compatibility is much higher and I think it could and should  work  fairly okay-ish (as long as the player remembers to use SexFight effects sparingly in quest scenes). 
(I tested it and actually used Sexfight to defeat Ryder because I hadn't been smart enough to do it via dialogue alone).

However there are some aspects: 

 

A. The return from the trial

•  When being returned to the world the player will be presented with some options : 
  • Return me exactly where I was OR 
  • Return me At a safe location (which can mean a number of things).

- I want to understand what is the optimal return marker for player to be returned from " death trial" at, depending on where they are in the NR storyline.
- For Nora I am assuming  there's some a marker I can use in front of the Apartment perhaps?
- For Norita I am assuming Dumore's farm before she gets the apartment, and the apartment after? Or maybe Seven Bar is better?
Could you help me with some insight on what quests/stages to test from NR, and what Object Reference marker can be valid options for the return trip?
Or should i just do the default teleport to the NukaRide world and let the player handle it from there?

B. Follower handling
Are there any special followers with special conditions, that need to be in player proximity, that need to be brought in the trial room as well and kept active ?Ar are they all safely  disable-able during he trial can and can be re-enabled moved out with the player after, or does anything get messed up?
Do these specific followers need to be returned to a specific spot (ObjectReference Markerref) , or, since they were follwers,  wherever the player goes they can go as well ?
Are there any special moments where the players have unofficial followers, that need to be manually detected or treated ?

by default I am thinkig to : 

1. Detect followers. 
2. Disable followers during the trial. (will this break anything In NukaRide?) . The alternative is to leave them enabled and imprison the followers in some hydro pillory or cage instead of disabling them)
3. re-enable them and return them with the player wherever the player goes, and do a n EvaluatePackage() on them . 

C. Any BleedOutEffect by story/design.
Are there any moment when player enters bleedout by story design, and/or they should not be yanked to face trial?
If so what are the ideal ways to detect those patches of time and delay any action?


 

 

Same for @Heinzelman and triggerwoman reborn, if you have time to provide the insights

While you are employed by the triggermen and live on their base, 

A. The return from the trial

•  When being returned to the world the player will be presented with some options : 
  • Return me where I was OR 
  • Return me At a safe location.

- I want to understand what is the optimal return marker for player to be returned from "death trial" at, depending on here they are in the Triggerwoman  storyline, or if there are such spots, and I should just have the vanilla return in Sanctuary or similar and let the player handle it from there, a

 

 

B. Follower handling
Are there any special followers with special conditions, that need to be in player proximity, that need to be brought in the trial room as well, and are they disable-able durign he trial or not. 
by default I am thinking to : 

1. Detect followers. 
2. Disable followers during the trial. (will this break anything In TRiggerwoman reborn?) . The alternative is to leave them enabled and imprison the followers in some hydro pillory or cage instead of disabling them)
3. re-enable them and return them with the player wherever the player goes, and do a n EvaluatePackage() on them . 

 

 

C. Any BleedOutEffect by story/design.
Are there any moment when player enters bleedout by story design, and/or they should not be yanked to face trial?
If so what are the ideal ways to detect those patches of time and delay any action?

I can also try and figure that on my own but chances are I won' t pick the ideal conditions to check.

Edited August 10, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[MSM_Alice]

1 hour ago, JemappelleRedacted said:

 ...do have DLOH, and it worked great in 7702: zoom out, lock controls, play idle, return control and zoom in. Since 7707 it's been zooming out, using a standard conversation anim and getting interrupted by me moving anyway since it missed the control lock.

Wait if the control lock and zooming zoom out was also missing then something else must have happened too.
Will take a deeper look.

Maybe the initialization of the entire manager didn' t happen correctly somehow this time around. 

Is like that entire scene lost its "prevent player exit dialogue" flag. 
Do you have any external mods that prevent standard scenes from locking the player in?

That is the way by which the controls were temporarily locked, force- playing a scene with "prevent player exit dialogue" set to on.
If that does not work in spite of that option being ticked then I don' t know what the cause might be, aside of that entire quest not being correctly initialized.. 

Was it a mid-playthrough upgrade, or a new game?
Is it okay on a new game, and only broken on a mid-playthrough upgrade?

Edited August 10, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[lordsnight]

6 hours ago, MSM_Alice said:

I actually went back and did the vanilla start and tested, and I was able to talk with the vault guy with no problem, on OG (did not test on NG though) .
There was an errant empty convo topic that could have caused issues with the Vault tech guy, that  I specifically corrected on 0.7720 and 0.7722
However after installing 0.7720 or 0.7722 a new game needs to be started in earnest, so the new quest and the new topics are initialized, and not the old problematic ones.  If it is just loading a save just before the vault tech guy rings the door,  and updated to 0.7720 but the game start moment itself was started before installing 0.7720, then it is no good.
In that case the problematic quest and problematic topic were already loaded in memory by then and are active in that save.


Unless a papyrus log is provided captured from the situation there's very little insight we can draw on.
@lordsnight


@rilieAP I'll take another look at the tattoo pools, see what might have happened.
Edit: all looks in order.  I'll hadd more traces to understand what happens.
If you look with the console, what values does the MSMA_Setting_BBCRaiderTags global variable have? . Should be on 1.0  if you want the BBC specific pool. 0.0 otherwise.

@Mimirue17 That's just the furniture settings in Violate that you need to tweak. 

The bug with Sturges speaking his lines but not with subtitles when he is a museum captive,, when he talks about his plan and the fusion core  i got that over the years almost always, since 2016. 
Misty is normal to move around she as a ~5 meter freedom of movement range in her AI package.

i understand what you mean, i'm not the expert on modding, so i don't know how to give the papyrus log or even captured it, about the thing, i load the save after the bell ringing and after everyone panic running to the vault, that's when i load and enabling the MSMA mod. i think just mybe, mybe it conflict with my other mod? such as sim settlement 2, or nuka ride? i didn't use any mod like start me up or alternate start, so it's not that problem. mybe four play conflict? just yesterday i disable the four play vanilla cause it's conflict with sim settlement 2 where everytime quest done, it always ask me to have sex, so i disable cause if i reject or even accept it, the jake will walk like nothing happen. can it cause by other four play mod?

[JemappelleRedacted]

 

59 minutes ago, MSM_Alice said:

Was it a mid-playthrough upgrade, or a new game ?

Probably mid game upgrade, I remember around that time the camera went bonkers and only had 2 steps, maximum and first person. Incidentally, the same type of zoom it's calling for the animation now 🤔 To the best of my knowledge I don't have anything like that, only change at that stage was adding Pampas to check the hair colour swap I believe.

[JemappelleRedacted]

3 minutes ago, lordsnight said:

 i don't know how to give the papyrus log or even captured it

https://steamcommunity.com/app/377160/discussions/0/365172408531964270/

SKKFastStart and StartMeUp Redux may fix your problem by bypassing the entire Prewar section, or even up to the vault elevator. Could also try setstage mq101 100 as I posted earlier, this sets the main quest to "talk to the rep" and (for me at least it starts the conversation. 

[MSM_Alice]

1 hour ago, JemappelleRedacted said:

 

Probably mid game upgrade, I remember around that time the camera went bonkers and only had 2 steps, maximum and first person. Incidentally, the same type of zoom it's calling for the animation now 🤔 To the best of my knowledge I don't have anything like that, only change at that stage was adding Pampas to check the hair colour swap I believe.

In that case maybe that is the source of the strangeness.. 

The first upgrade (0.7702) worked because that was the first build where the scene appeared,  so the game was forced to initiaize it specifically, so the scene would exist.

However  on the upgrade from 0.7702 to 0.7708, that scene existed already (albeit in its outdated state), so the game was not forced to update its content anymore, so it just  didn;t do it  anymore .
It would do it if it is a new game, or if loaded on a save where that scene did not exist at all.  But not if it existed already in an oudated state.
Hpowever the scrips that work with that scene DID update.
And the old scene definition and the new scripts (which DO get updated)  don't play nice with each other. 


You could try to force stop and force that the MSMA_BimboUpdates  quest altogether, and that would make sure the scene update to its latest iteration (even if it was already present), because the whole quest is reloaded....  BUT  that would reset most of the variables in that quest that would break many other things in your playthrough. 

 

Conclusion/hypothesis: needs to be either loaded up on the same save where you fist applied 0.7702, or, start a new game. 
The fallout4 engine architecture and my mod architecture  might mean a mid- game upgrade for that system is not possible.

Needs to be a new game, or loaded up a savegame  where that animation system hadn't been implemented yet.
 

Edited August 10, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[rilieAP]

9 hours ago, MSM_Alice said:

If you look with the console, what values does the MSMA_Setting_BBCRaiderTags global variable have? . Should be on 1.0  if you want the BBC specific pool. 0.0 otherwise

It returns a 1, but all the ones I've gotten for a while now have been from the normal pool with only raiders in the violate pool.  I do have an idea what it might be from my side though, and it has to do with NAF and how tattoos are applied.  I'll get back to you today if my idea to fix is correct.

 

I do love how well the tattoo system works in general though, it is so much better than tats after rape! 

Edited August 10, 2025 by rilieAP