MSMA: SexFight (like "Succubus Drain") and Bimbofication

[MSM_Alice]

Tested a bit ( including vanilla start with pre war phase) all looks good.

Given how many bugs it solves, I am tempted to put it on the main page  

 

*edit*: on the main page now

Edited August 7, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[JemappelleRedacted]

9 hours ago, MSM_Alice said:

Yep, a reversed vector would explain why Piete (the last in the vector) is on the receiving end on NAF. 
<snip>
Hmm odd indeed. Will double check but never happened in my tests.
Are you sure the KFT device being equiped wasn't   in fact applied at the start of the scene, because violate was set to apply restraint at the start? 
And had nothing to do with how well you defeated the raiders?
Did you see that notification" all enemies are punished via sexfight?" 

Can you give me more details or a log from such an occurrence?

I don't use NAF though, so it's not that on my end...will advise when I get back there (continuing not new, I hate sitting for 30min to let scripts run before playing, and SA is triggering in such a way as to whitescreen bug). I have a hunch Magno Cum Gaudio may be causing the missing player issue though, so I suppose I am due a test of that.

 

Huh, so there isn't a skill based resist feature for post fight results? Seemed like one of those "learn as you go" features that I just missed. 🤔

I moved KFT to the end of scene several iterations ago (easier to steal keys from a corpse, but still unfair lol), and it's a little squirrely too (I can pipboy, do a few things, then after I exit will add cuffs or w/e). I rarely see the punish notification, and it seems to delay until the next aaf activation "in the wild", so to speak. As I said, I've had all enemies cooked well before the 2min mark (I believe it was 2 gunners, 6/6 then 5/7 success, orange flashes) and had the end popup, only B1 so no killing. I'll try grab a log when I upgrade to 7720 and the cat gets off the arm again.

 

Also, apologies if my delayed wall of text responses get annoying, I'm not great at real-time monitoring. In recompense, may I suggest adding this to the suggested mods? 😉

https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/3844

 

 

Edited August 8, 2025 by JemappelleRedacted

[JemappelleRedacted]

9 hours ago, MSM_Alice said:

Player can now directly loot bimbo-paralyzed opponents, even if they are not dead, only paralyzed.

Well, that at least answers part of Point 7, and since I have the cat now's as good a time as any to address it. And for the record, this is neither a criticism or request for changes: I want to understand you are using/expecting the system to be used to adjust my playstyle rather than defaulting to full slut or naked war-goddess.

 

Knowing that the systems are being developed for a specific story arc you'll implement at a later date, the question is how do you see people using the mod in a sandbox, vanilla, or other story mod context  (as we're doing right now, other than the Sanc quests)?

 

So you've been jumped by raiders, you're B-1, but with the aid of alcohol, Nuka Cola, and an Agility-based build you've managed to paralyse them...are we expected to run? Rob them? Finish the job, despite the blood messing up our hair? You technically had a good time, but now you've got Trauma, so say hello to an addiction! 

 

You make it to DC, lets say you've hit B-2 along the way and are having cravings. Probably have SEU or Hardship installed, so may as well get paid to work out your kinks...really, no one wants to get a gangbang going? Why is everyone being so cheap and just opting for oral, one after the other?! I have needs to address people!

 

Well, it seems the only way to get the epic dicking you need is to go say hi to a Mutie camp. Every day, since you're B-5+. Hello more "trauma", and they just nicked all my gear again but that's okay they're dead now, where's the next camp? <humming a tune> I need 10 of y'all to make me come! Oh, I forgot you were with me Piper, sorry about the mess but sing along now!

 

 

So, yeah, B-2 is the sweet spot, and you're not exactly being harshly punished for ignoring your cravings except in a manner that makes sex fights harder, so should we be a carefree bimbo killing what we can and then banging the survivors to death, or a sneaky sniper bimbo who runs away before they get overwhelmed and coming back to use violate on them? Hooker by day, raider-killer by night? Give up, embrace B-7, and start Milking Human Kindness or Slavers?

 

What mods do you use/suggest to get the most out of the system as it stands now? As I said in my first post, this has so much potential it's staggering and your continued engagement, passion, and skill are frankly inspiring, I just wish I could play sound-on more often 😭

[Mimirue17]

I do not know if there is anyway to add tags to animations - but if you looked at that Papyrus of the Betrayal you will see the tags are off-or not relevant to the scene and no cum overlay was applied.   That was the 10p one and I an not sure about he other high headcount ones but I would assume they are similar.    This would effect craving satisfaction as well right (anal, vaginal and oral)

Edited August 8, 2025 by Mimirue17

[MSM_Alice]

44 minutes ago, Mimirue17 said:

I do not know if there is anyway to add tags to animations - but if you looked at that Papyrus of the Betrayal you will see the tags are off-or not relevant to the scene and no cum overlay was applied.   That was the 10p one and I an not sure about he other high headcount ones but I would assume they are similar.    This would effect craving satisfaction as well right (anal, vaginal and oral)

Yes, the new redefined high headcount animation in  right now inherited the tags of the patched ones, and they are not a lot. 
Since they are redefined and separate I can change them and add more/proper tags. 

Overall there are quite a few animations with tags that do not quite fit, and there are a lot of systems from a lot of mods depending on these tags to be correct. 

Try replacing the SavageCabbage_positionData_MSMA.xml file, I copied over more of the tags from the original. 

MSMA_XML_Redefinitions.ZIP

Edited August 8, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[Mimirue17]

6 minutes ago, MSM_Alice said:

Yes, the new redefined high headcount animation in inherited the tags of the patched ones, but since they are redefined and separate I can change them and add add proper tags. 

There are quite a few animations with tags that do not quite fit, and there are a lot of systems from a lot of mods depending on these tags to be correct. 
 

Also, is it possible to force it to use the ones you created? It initially called the standard one and I switched it to the MSMA one which was staged (the orginal called was not) 

 

I would love to be able to go into my animations and remove every none staged animation so only staged ones are even available to be called

[Mimirue17]

also keeping an eye on this mod 

though these creatures would have to be added to Violate list of aggressors to really be of any use.   

 

not sure if there is any future plans to include creatures under cravings - as the implant would surely want specimens from everything available right?

Edited August 8, 2025 by Mimirue17

[MSM_Alice]

2 hours ago, Mimirue17 said:

also keeping an eye on this mod 

though these creatures would have to be added to Violate list of aggressors to really be of any use.   

 

not sure if there is any future plans to include creatures under cravings - as the implant would surely want specimens from everything available right?

 

Yes, but I'm ... conflicted about bestiality content focus, I don' t know about it , I don' t know how to approach it, so I will probably not be going in that direction. If is it part of violate and Sex Attributes, and I interact with systems from SA and violate  like SA perversions...fine, but adding a direct craving on it... I am rather internally conflicted on it.
 

Edited August 8, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[MSM_Alice]

35 minutes ago, Mimirue17 said:

Also, is it possible to force it to use the ones you created? It initially called the standard one and I switched it to the MSMA one which was staged (the orginal called was not) 

 

I would love to be able to go into my animations and remove every none staged animation so only staged ones are even available to be called

I can make betrayal try to use the internal ones first, then the others. 
I can't intervene in what violate picks. 

You can naturally manually edit the XMLs and remove certain Anims altogether if you want to, or (probably safer) add some non sexual tags to them, tags that would filter them out of the Violate pick pool via excluded tags that non sexual animations usually have, invalidating them without messing with the mods that call them out by name. 

Edited August 8, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[MSM_Alice]

2 hours ago, JemappelleRedacted said:

I don't use NAF though, so it's not that on my end...will advise when I get back there (continuing not new, I hate sitting for 30min to let scripts run before playing, and SA is triggering in such a way as to whitescreen bug). I have a hunch Magno Cum Gaudio may be causing the missing player issue though, so I suppose I am due a test of that.

 

Huh, so there isn't a skill based resist feature for post fight results? Seemed like one of those "learn as you go" features that I just missed. 🤔

I moved KFT to the end of scene several iterations ago (easier to steal keys from a corpse, but still unfair lol), and it's a little squirrely too (I can pipboy, do a few things, then after I exit will add cuffs or w/e). I rarely see the punish notification, and it seems to delay until the next aaf activation "in the wild", so to speak. As I said, I've had all enemies cooked well before the 2min mark (I believe it was 2 gunners, 6/6 then 5/7 success, orange flashes) and had the end popup, only B1 so no killing. I'll try grab a log when I upgrade to 7720 and the cat gets off the arm again.

 

Also, apologies if my delayed wall of text responses get annoying, I'm not great at real-time monitoring. In recompense, may I suggest adding this to the suggested mods? 😉

https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/3844

 

 

The system works this way : 
There' s lot of interpretation or nuance of what constitutes a "Won" or a "lost" sexfight, outcomes are not a s binary, if you frenzied just one tough opponent from the opponent group that then kills everyone else who you did not focus on, isn't that a big strategic win in reality, even though on paper it was a loss? 

Strictly from the purpose of softening up Violate outcomes, the condition that that more than 80% of the aggressors are affected by SexFight punishes (that means they got at least a mindblowing or a galactic orgasm, or more). 
More than 80% punish rate, and effects like Violate-item-stealing or restraints applied on the end, or even Bound in public shouldn't apply (if they do it is a bug) 

Less than 80% punish rate, and post Scene effect is Violate occur just as you have configured them in Violate . 

Edited August 8, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[MSM_Alice]

3 hours ago, JemappelleRedacted said:

Well, that at least answers part of Point 7, and since I have the cat now's as good a time as any to address it. And for the record, this is neither a criticism or request for changes: I want to understand you are using/expecting the system to be used to adjust my playstyle rather than defaulting to full slut or naked war-goddess.

 

Knowing that the systems are being developed for a specific story arc you'll implement at a later date, the question is how do you see people using the mod in a sandbox, vanilla, or other story mod context  (as we're doing right now, other than the Sanc quests)?

 

So you've been jumped by raiders, you're B-1, but with the aid of alcohol, Nuka Cola, and an Agility-based build you've managed to paralyse them...are we expected to run? Rob them? Finish the job, despite the blood messing up our hair? You technically had a good time, but now you've got Trauma, so say hello to an addiction! 

 

You make it to DC, lets say you've hit B-2 along the way and are having cravings. Probably have SEU or Hardship installed, so may as well get paid to work out your kinks...really, no one wants to get a gangbang going? Why is everyone being so cheap and just opting for oral, one after the other?! I have needs to address people!

 

 

So, yeah, B-2 is the sweet spot, and you're not exactly being harshly punished for ignoring your cravings except in a manner that makes sex fights harder, so should we be a carefree bimbo killing what we can and then banging the survivors to death, or a sneaky sniper bimbo who runs away before they get overwhelmed and coming back to use violate on them? Hooker by day, raider-killer by night? Give up, embrace B-7, and start Milking Human Kindness or Slavers?

 

What mods do you use/suggest to get the most out of the system as it stands now? As I said in my first post, this has so much potential it's staggering and your continued engagement, passion, and skill are frankly inspiring, I just wish I could play sound-on more often 😭

It is a lot to dig in 

 

Quote

So you've been jumped by raiders, you're B-1, but with the aid of alcohol, Nuka Cola, and an Agility-based build you've managed to paralyse them...are we expected to run? Rob them? Finish the job, despite the blood messing up our hair? You technically had a good time, but now you've got Trauma, so say hello to an addiction!

Very little expectation is placed on the player.

I want to build a system that works decently with the general sandbox, for those who would want to use it this way, outside of the later MSMA Story mode,  and little additional expectations on how it "should" be used.

You can definitely finish the job, while they are incapacitated, for revenge, or any other motivation. You would be well within your rights to do so. 
You can also rob and run, as you got *some* xp just from paralyzing them, so you can try and live a no-kill life.
Before paralysis-looting was possible the main option was to punch the stiffs like a crazy person till they were dead and you could loot them. 
You could also place some mines between them so they go kaboom when they wake up (I actually toyed with the idea of a feature of placing timed explosives in their inventory, but decided that is not on-brand) 
 

Quote

So you've been jumped by raiders, you're B-1, but with the aid of alcohol, Nuka Cola, and an Agility-based build you've managed to paralyse them...are we expected to run? Rob them? Finish the job, despite the blood messing up our hair? You technically had a good time, but now you've got Trauma, so say hello to an addiction! 

 

You make it to DC, lets say you've hit B-2 along the way and are having cravings. Probably have SEU or Hardship installed, so may as well get paid to work out your kinks...really, no one wants to get a gangbang going? Why is everyone being so cheap and just opting for oral, one after the other?! I have needs to address people!

That's definitely one path.

 

Quote

Well, it seems the only way to get the epic dicking you need is to go say hi to a Mutie camp. Every day, since you're B-5+. Hello more "trauma", and they just nicked all my gear again but that's okay they're dead now, where's the next camp? <humming a tune> I need 10 of y'all to make me come! Oh, I forgot you were with me Piper, sorry about the mess but sing along now!

Piper *really* should have known better than to tag along with a level 5+ implanted bimbo on a mutie-night-out  . Now she has to learn the songs too .

 

 

Quote

 

So, yeah, B-2 is the sweet spot, and you're not exactly being harshly punished for ignoring your cravings except in a manner that makes sex fights harder, so should we be a carefree bimbo killing what we can and then banging the survivors to death, or a sneaky sniper bimbo who runs away before they get overwhelmed and coming back to use violate on them? Hooker by day, raider-killer by night? Give up, embrace B-7, and start Milking Human Kindness or Slavers?

B2 is indeed an intended balance point.
When I am thinking about quest content I will mainly be thinking about three paths 

• Bucket 1, purist/ reluctant experiment subject, only using implant in key story moments.
  • B0/B1 barely a bimbo/Visiting the de-bimbo school at the first sign of corruption. Marketing video content for mister SJ dildo factory will probably not be done by the player. 
• Bucket 2, balanced, "let's see what this does/ how I can use this for my own advantage" approach .   Hovering on B2 stable point.
  • Sometimes giving in, sometimes not. Maybe B3 but no more.  Marketing videos for mister SJs dildo factory or done with a privacy mask on the face and a wig for plausible deniability.
• Bucket 3,  Slut-Goddess, "everything can be solved  with more sex", level 4-5-6, kill everything exclusively via sexfight, marketing for mister SJ's factory in person videos with dildos galore.
• Bucket 4,  Level 7, mind is ... gone, there is just the sex, the implant, the experiment.

The thing is unexpected events can nudge a player from a lower level track toa higher level track, and going back will be an upstream swim as the player find out ways to "successfully fail forward" as a bimbo, the allure of an easier outcome if just giving in to it, always there. 

 

 

Quote

What mods do you use/suggest to get the most out of the system as it stands now? As I said in my first post, this has so much potential it's staggering and your continued engagement, passion, and skill are frankly inspiring, I just wish I could play sound-on more often 😭

Aside what I have on the main page, not sure.  Use what you love :D.

The main thing that I want to build now to complements these mechanics is the MSMA story mode. 
The story itself will revolve around how the player becomes a key piece in mister SJ's settlement in particular, and how that settlement (re)becomes a key powerful faction in the wasteland in general.

Dealing with spies, enemy generals, receptions with powerful and influent people who can be entranced and spill key secrets during pillow talk. Better secrets via better orgasms, so sexfight skill matters in non-fight scenarios too. Enemies become friends, friends become enemies, and nothing is what it seems. Love and betrayal. Loss and healing.

Wil the player embrace being a Mata Hari-like spy, using the implant to further her employer's agenda?
Will she have her own agenda?
Will she stick to vanilla combat and be more of a soldier than a sexy spy?
Will she be more of a dumb bimbo, in the wasteland?
Who knows?
We'll see.

Edited August 8, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[MSM_Alice]

Maybe what I should say is that the current mechanics/system might seem rather extreme rather fast, because right now I am mapping the extreme ridiculous  edges of where this can go to eventually, setting up the perimeter of the playground,  but the story is meant to be more of a deliberate slow burn within that playground.
Not just 3 days in : "MUTIE COCKS!" *gobble gobble gobble*. That's just one extreme outcome. 

The main story would feel rather "fake/made-up/forcefully grafted" if there weren't some sandbox compatible gameplay mechanics to support the story premise in itself, mechanics that somehow work consistently in this digital alternate universe with most other mod content, outside the hand-made quests. 

Edited August 8, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[JemappelleRedacted]

4 hours ago, MSM_Alice said:

The system works this way : 
There' s lot of interpretation or nuance of what constitutes a "Won" or a "lost" sexfight, outcomes are not a s binary, if you frenzied just one tough opponent from the opponent group that then kills everyone else who you did not focus on, isn't that a big strategic win in reality, even though on paper it was a loss? 

Strictly from the purpose of softening up Violate outcomes, the condition that that more than 80% of the aggressors are affected by SexFight punishes (that means they got at least a mindblowing or a galactic orgasm, or more). 
More than 80% punish rate, and effects like Violate-item-stealing or restraints applied on the end, or even Bound in public shouldn't apply (if they do it is a bug) 

Less than 80% punish rate, and post Scene effect is Violate occur just as you have configured them in Violate . 

Got ganked by 4 gunners, went thus:

1: Handicap 2, feels like: 2, 8/8 challenge, Underwhelming/Minimal rate

2: Handicap 1, feels like 3, 8/9, Underwhelming/Minimal rate

3: Handicap 1, feels like 4, 8/9, Underwhelming/Minimal rate

4: Handicap 1, feels like 5, 9/9, Underwhelming/Minimal rate, 1 Depravity (Resisted)

All were cooked before the timer, KFT was added before control restored.

Tested a hunch, waited for passive timer to finish (maximum, ?2min so I can book it while hobbled): they went aggressive, downed me, then were paralysed.

Then they proceeded to fulfil their contractual obligation as Violate attackers regardless of paralysis. Notification may have been lost when Violate hid the control layer.

Force ended round 2 and quit to truncate the log for you 👍

Papyrus.0.log

 

Additional: Generator movie called SC_INVB-MFMM-Human-Floor03-03Gangbang

Edited August 8, 2025 by JemappelleRedacted

[MSM_Alice]

1 hour ago, JemappelleRedacted said:

Got ganked by 4 gunners, went thus:

1: Handicap 2, feels like: 2, 8/8 challenge, Underwhelming/Minimal rate

2: Handicap 1, feels like 3, 8/9, Underwhelming/Minimal rate

3: Handicap 1, feels like 4, 8/9, Underwhelming/Minimal rate

4: Handicap 1, feels like 5, 9/9, Underwhelming/Minimal rate, 1 Depravity (Resisted)

All were cooked before the timer, KFT was added before control restored.

Tested a hunch, waited for passive timer to finish (maximum, ?2min so I can book it while hobbled): they went aggressive, downed me, then were paralysed.

Then they proceeded to fulfil their contractual obligation as Violate attackers regardless of paralysis. Notification may have been lost when Violate hid the control layer.

Force ended round 2 and quit to truncate the log for you 👍

Papyrus.0.log 567.82 kB · 3 downloads

Will take a look as soon as i am back at the modding computer. 
There seem to be several aspects to investigate here: 


1. Problem 1: Adding a restraint on the player on Violate end, even though the sexfight was supposed to be "won" and the Violate outcome was supposed to be softened. 

• Hypothesis 1. - The Violate outcome softening system IS firing, but it fails to affect Violate on time somehow  (maybe, or maybe Violate gets away with that because MSMA does not correctly identify which round is the last in the violated sequence ahead of time (this needs to be determined when the last round starts, not when it ends).  A lot  of Violate settings can affect that  "last round" determination (for instance, having Sex until exhaustion on vs not having, and so on) 
  This last round was indeed tricky to determine ahead of time, but I thought I had a complete working solution for it many months ago. However, the latest changes made to offset aggressors that might have added mid-way might have thrown a big wrench in those gears, and broken the accuracy of the "last round" detector. Who knows. I kind of doubt it is broken, because punishing of the NPCs is also done on that same "last round" and that usually works correctly, triggering at the end of the last violate round. 
   
• Hypothesis 2: Maybe the Violate setting for adding KFT restraints specifically is somehow separate/independent from the general setting of adding Restraints on the end of Violate, so it eludes softening. Will have to be checked. Maybe adding DD devices is softened, but not KFT.
• Hypothesis 3:  - There is another mod, not Violate,  that adds the troublesome KFT restraints on aggressive sex end, (nothing MSMA can do about that). 
• Hypothesis 4:  The MSMA "won sexfight" condition check fails somehow, and the MSMA mod thinks you have not incapacitated enough of your aggressors to soften the Violate end effects, even though you have.  If you can't confirm that you see that "All aggressors are punished on sex end" in the notification channel, then the post sex report should be telling you if MSMA thinks that you have successfully incapacitated all your aggressors or not. 
  • Hypothesis 3.a: The auto cooker auto-exit is at fault
  • Hypothesis 3.b: something else (not the auto cooker) is at fault. 

 

2. Problem 2: Agressors attack the player instead of preferring each other, and trigger a NEW violate scene before the old one properly ends. 

Here is important to determine what is the specific reason that the violate pacification stops,a nd the fight starts. 
Is there 
2A. Is this in earnest about aggressors being frenzied by MSMA and then that frenzy causing attacking the player? 
OR 
2B. Some other system /mod breaks the peace bubble ( things like checking your inventory break the peace bubble)

The reason i think that is the case is that if agressors go aggressive, and THEN they are paralyzed ( more than one), as you say above, if you see more than ONE paralyzed enemy,  then that means MSMA was on the "punish by paralysis" track for that encounter, and not by"frenzy".
MSMA does not freely mix paralisys or frenzy outcomes, they are either or. 

If you case if you saw more than one paralized enemy,  it means MSMA had decided to paralyze instead of frenzy for various reasons. (or at least that is how it should work). So the aggression window likely originated from outside MSMA, as there was no MSMA frenzy on that track.
MSMA analyses aggressor at the need, and if out of 4, 3 are dead, the fourth one won't ever be frenzied, but paralyzed. 
And other similar conditions. If there is a super mutant suicider int hat pool, all are getting paralized (none getting frenzied) to avoid a big explosion.
 

So if you see two different paralized NPCs in a scene,  MSMA frezny probably wan't used there at all, and the source of aggression was something else.
If MSMa is on the frenzy track, just one of the aggressors can ever become paralyzed:  The last frenzied one, when there are no more valid other targets around him, aside from the player.    Only that one will become paralyzed, if running on a frenzy scenario, no-one else..  
 

If 2A:  Agressors getting frenzied immediately after was something that I indeed wanted to be possible for general atmosphere reasons, to create a sense of urgency for the player to leave, BUT, it seems there are two guard systems that I had  put in place to avoid a quick re-defeat,  that aren't working/ triggering : 
- the subroutine telling frenzied NPCs to not target the player (maybe too slow, maybe not quite correct) 
- the extra defense for the player on sex end (the player should have boosted defense, close to invulnerability for some 10 second post sex end, specifically so they can leave the frenzy group without getting downed AGAIN.
 

Seems none of those two were working in your case, and need to figure out why. 

Until then, the alternative to go around that issue is
- just use paralysis ( no frenzy) - this way you determine if the enemies breaking the peace bubble and becoming aggressive was an MSMA frenzy aspect, or caused by something else breaking the peace bubble . T
- use"invisibility post sex" option in the MCM.  so your nanites give you aside defense boost, also a 10-second invisibility window to escape the frenzied enemies.
 

Edited August 8, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[JemappelleRedacted]

35 minutes ago, MSM_Alice said:

Will take a look as soon as i am back at the modding computer. 
There seem to be several aspects to investigate here: 


1. Problem 1: Adding a restraint on the player on Violate end, even though the sexfight was supposed to be "won" and the Violate outcome was supposed to be softened. 

• Hypothesis 1. - The Violate outcome softening system IS firing, but it fails to affect Violate on time somehow  (maybe, or maybe Violate gets away with that because MSMA does not correctly identify which round is the last in the violated sequence ahead of time (this needs to be determined when the last round starts, not when it ends).  A lot  of Violate settings can affect that  "last round" determination (for instance, having Sex until exhaustion on vs not having, and so on) 
  This last round was indeed tricky to determine ahead of time, but I thought I had a complete working solution for it many months ago. However, the latest changes made to offset aggressors that might have added mid-way might have thrown a big wrench in those gears, and broken the accuracy of the "last round" detector. Who knows. I kind of doubt it is broken, because punishing of the NPCs is also done on that same "last round" and that usually works correctly, triggering at the end of the last violate round. 
   
• Hypothesis 2: Maybe the Violate setting for adding KFT restraints specifically is somehow separate/independent from the general setting of adding Restraints on the end of Violate, so it eludes softening. Will have to be checked. Maybe adding DD devices is softened, but not KFT.
• Hypothesis 3:  - There is another mod, not Violate,  that adds the troublesome KFT restraints on aggressive sex end, (nothing MSMA can do about that). 
• Hypothesis 4:  The MSMA "won sexfight" condition check fails somehow, and the MSMA mod thinks you have not incapacitated enough of your aggressors to soften the Violate end effects, even though you have.  If you can't confirm that you see that "All aggressors are punished on sex end" in the notification channel, then the post sex report should be telling you if MSMA thinks that you have successfully incapacitated all your aggressors or not. 
  • Hypothesis 3.a: The auto cooker auto-exit is at fault
  • Hypothesis 3.b: something else (not the auto cooker) is at fault. 

 

2. Problem 2: Agressors attack the player instead of preferring each other, and trigger a NEW violate scene before the old one properly ends. 

Here is important to determine what is the specific reason that the violate pacification stops,a nd the fight starts. 
Is there 
2A. Is this in earnest about aggressors being frenzied by MSMA and then that frenzy causing attacking the player? 
OR 
2B. Some other system /mod breaks the peace bubble ( things like checking your inventory break the peace bubble)

The reason i think that is the case is that if agressors go aggressive, and THEN they are paralyzed ( more than one), as you say above, if you see more than ONE paralyzed enemy,  then that means MSMA was on the "punish by paralysis" track for that encounter, and not by"frenzy".
MSMA does not freely mix paralisys or frenzy outcomes, they are either or. 

If you case if you saw more than one paralized enemy,  it means MSMA had decided to paralyze instead of frenzy for various reasons. (or at least that is how it should work). So the aggression window likely originated from outside MSMA, as there was no MSMA frenzy on that track.
MSMA analyses aggressor at the need, and if out of 4, 3 are dead, the fourth one won't ever be frenzied, but paralyzed. 
And other similar conditions. If there is a super mutant suicider int hat pool, all are getting paralized (none getting frenzied) to avoid a big explosion.
 

So if you see two different paralized NPCs in a scene,  MSMA frezny probably wan't used there at all, and the source of aggression was something else.
If MSMa is on the frenzy track, just one of the aggressors can ever become paralyzed:  The last frenzied one, when there are no more valid other targets around him, aside from the player.    Only that one will become paralyzed, if running on a frenzy scenario, no-one else..  
 

If 2A:  Agressors getting frenzied immediately after was something that I indeed wanted to be possible for general atmosphere reasons, to create a sense of urgency for the player to leave, BUT, it seems there are two guard systems that I had  put in place to avoid a quick re-defeat,  that aren't working/ triggering : 
- the subroutine telling frenzied NPCs to not target the player (maybe too slow, maybe not quite correct) 
- the extra defense for the player on sex end (the player should have boosted defense, close to invulnerability for some 10 second post sex end, specifically so they can leave the frenzy group without getting downed AGAIN.
 

Seems none of those two were working in your case, and need to figure out why. 

Until then, the alternative to go around that issue is
- just use paralysis ( no frenzy) - this way you determine if the enemies breaking the peace bubble and becoming aggressive was an MSMA frenzy aspect, or caused by something else breaking the peace bubble . T
- use"invisibility post sex" option in the MCM.  so your nanites give you aside defense boost, also a 10-second invisibility window to escape the frenzied enemies.
 

Added to the above, but for greater visibility:  Generator movie called SC_INVB-MFMM-Human-Floor03-03Gangbang after it couldn't fine the one it wanted. ?Outdated SC anims on my end potential issue.

 

Added the scene 4 report page 1 screenshot: I took screenshots after each cooked message and posted the short version above.

The flow I observed was: end round 4>KFT>waited in place for ~2min>aggro, downed instantly due to KFT and an MG3 at point blank range>knockdown, combat stopped>surrender anim>paralysis>start first violate anim.

 

Since I saw at least 3 drop, and I already had Invisibility option on, I suspect problem 2 isn't actually a problem, it's the peace bubble timing out while my character sat there without control input of any kind (and with 2min being above the 10sec buff, that was inactive). I do have a suicider replacer, but this was a gunner team so probably unrelated.

 

No rush, take your time with it since I seem to be the only one having the issue and you've got plenty on your plate as-is.

 

Spoiler

 

[MSM_Alice]

56 minutes ago, JemappelleRedacted said:

Added to the above, but for greater visibility:  Generator movie called SC_INVB-MFMM-Human-Floor03-03Gangbang after it couldn't fine the one it wanted. ?Outdated SC anims on my end potential issue.

 

Added the scene 4 report page 1 screenshot: I took screenshots after each cooked message and posted the short version above.

The flow I observed was: end round 4>KFT>waited in place for ~2min>aggro, downed instantly due to KFT and an MG3 at point blank range>knockdown, combat stopped>surrender anim>paralysis>start first violate anim.

 

Since I saw at least 3 drop, and I already had Invisibility option on, I suspect problem 2 isn't actually a problem, it's the peace bubble timing out while my character sat there without control input of any kind (and with 2min being above the 10sec buff, that was inactive). I do have a suicider replacer, but this was a gunner team so probably unrelated.

 

No rush, take your time with it since I seem to be the only one having the issue and you've got plenty on your plate as-is.

 

  Hide contents

 

Thank you.
This is useful context that helps channel the investigation from a  "miryad" of possible avenues into a few channels. 


The fact that this happened not immediately after the scene ended, but some 2 minute after is immensely helpful and crucial info.
It means 
1. Indeed, This means, without much guesswork, that the early "is the the last violate round in this sequence" detector  did not work as intended,  as the punishment was not done normally, immediately after the sex ended  of the last round ( that's howit should've,  not 2 minutes , not  30 second not even  10 seconds but rather immediately 2-3 seconds tops), as it should've on last round, but rather it was done much  delayed, by the álternate fallback catch-all at the very end of Violate,  when Violate itself choses to end the peace bubble, after the Violate pacification runs out. (on VIN event Resume).

The last round detector likely not working might be also the very cause of the last aggressor resisting sexfight punish despite the perfect challenge answers, , since for the last scene in the sequence, the outcome evaluation needs to be done during the scene itself, and is not done post-scene,  as post-last-scene, there isn't enough time to do it before Violate takes action with its end of event effects. And if "is this the last scene" wasn;t TRUE, then there was no evaluation done Mid-scene onthelast scene, so the very last aggressor totally eluded evaluation.

So that focuses the investigation quite a fair bit. It focuses on a complex issue, true ( dynamically determining what the last violate round will be, before even Violate knows it is a complex thing in itself), but at least I know where to look.


2. Three other rounds, each one partner means four total partners, 
If the last one ( the one this report is from) was considered, that he managed to resist (despite all 9 challenges being answered ... a bug there for sure 9/9challenges odds are he should've been punished),  - is intriguing. but one out of four does mean 75% punish rate, lower than 80% so logically it makes sense the fight was considered last and violate was allowed to do its restraints at the end... and thus KFT was equipped.

Did you have followers here, and were they enabled for Violate targets? 
Also, in violate, do you have that "Only combatants can be aggressors" thing, or allow mutually hostile races on?
I wonder if aside from those four visible aggressors, if there are not other NPC who might have snuck in the aggressor list ( like a random boatfly or another critter nearby), but were just rejected from entering a scene somehow. If that was the case, it would explain why the "last scene" indicator never triggered. MSMA was waiting for that hidden NPC to get their turn, but Violate considered that they shouldn't, as they got disqualified somewhow.
Or maybe a NPC (a 5th gunnenr) who was alive at the start of the first scene, but got somehow killed by the environment, by the end of the fourth scene?

Maybe I should update my checks of "Did everyone get a turn condition, to "Did everyone get a turn, or died in the meantime, while waiting their turn" condition.

Edited August 8, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[MSM_Alice]

Got a bit of time to look at the log indeed that seems exactly to be the issue:

" MSMADebug: on main All aggressors are already sentenced, softening player punishment at the end of Violate, this number should be 0 1"  ( that 1 means there is a hidden/aberrant  participant) 

Between the info from your posts and the papyrus log, there should be enough "smoking guns" to find the cause of the problem.

8/08/2025 - 04:47:41PM] MSMADebug: SelfReportedViolateEnd, Violate index:10 Time:2166.202148
[08/08/2025 - 04:47:41PM] MSMADEbug: Regular punish was not called, calling it on Vin_Resume as a last resort

Edited August 8, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[JemappelleRedacted]

5 hours ago, MSM_Alice said:

You could also place some mines between them so they go kaboom when they wake up (I actually toyed with the idea of a feature of placing timed explosives in their inventory, but decided that is not on-brand) 

You know I tried to bimbo-loot place a mine but it didn't work, and it made me sad lol.

 

5 hours ago, MSM_Alice said:

Maybe what I should say is that the current mechanics/system might seem rather extreme rather fast, because right now I am mapping the extreme ridiculous  edges of where this can go to eventually, setting up the perimeter of the playground,  but the story is meant to be more of a deliberate slow burn within that playground.
Not just 3 days in : "MUTIE COCKS!" *gobble gobble gobble*. That's just one extreme outcome. 

The main story would feel rather "fake/made-up/forcefully grafted" if there weren't some sandbox compatible gameplay mechanics to support the story premise in itself, mechanics that somehow work consistently in this digital alternate universe with most other mod content, outside the hand-made quests. 

This is probably the closest to answering the question, although I will point out that fixing up Sanc is a bit less than 3 days to hit "ME NEXT SNU-SNU!" if you forget you don't get xp per action. Yes, I've learned since then, but still 😅

 

  

1 hour ago, MSM_Alice said:

Did you have followers here, and were they enabled for Violate targets? 
Also, in violate, do you have that "Only combatants can be aggressors" thing, or allow mutually hostile races on?
I wonder if aside from those four visible aggressors, if there are not other NPC who might have snuck in the aggressor list ( like a random boatfly or another critter nearby), but were just rejected from entering a scene somehow. If that was the case, it would explain why the "last scene" indicator never triggered. MSMA was waiting for that hidden NPC to get their turn, but Violate considered that they shouldn't, as they got disqualified somewhow.
Or maybe a NPC (a 5th gunnenr) who was alive at the start of the first scene, but got somehow killed by the environment, by the end of the fourth scene?

Maybe I should update my checks of "Did everyone get a turn condition, to "Did everyone get a turn, or died in the meantime, while waiting their turn" condition.

I had Heather Casdin, who doesn't use a follower spot and has had issues with aggression on Commonwealth Captives and DC Guards, but follower violate was off per an earlier mention. Only Combantants was on, so no wanderers should have messed it up

 

It was near the Dunwich building, and on reload it dropped a gunner patrol literally on my head and another around the corner, so a failed spawn is certainly possible.

Edited August 8, 2025 by JemappelleRedacted

[MSM_Alice]

45 minutes ago, JemappelleRedacted said:

You know I tried to bimbo-loot place a mine but it didn't work, and it made me sad lol.

 

This is probably the closest to answering the question, although I will point out that fixing up Sanc is a bit less than 3 days to hit "ME NEXT SNU-SNU!" if you forget you don't get xp per action. Yes, I've learned since then, but still 😅

 

While I am not completely ruling out a psycho bomber bimbo build, it is not at the forefront of the development priorities right now.  
I guess it could be like a Harley Quinn Bimbo equivalent, and SJ could be like her Joker figure, but do I want to simply rehash that premise for the umpteenth time, just that in the Fallout universe with a bimbo flavor? Probably not. Probably seeking something different is more interesting.

Depending on how much enthusiasm I end up having in the tank for this over the years, I might lean into a "multiple universes" side of things that Misty mentioned at the start, and as a side quest, you get placeswapped with a universe where that psycho bomber bimbo build paradigm is in effect. At least for a while. 
 

If you think about it, the crown for number one raider psycho duo has to go to the Overboss and Nora on the NukaRide Nora route, where she embraces Harlowe's overbitch legacy. 
Probably Nora and Hancock in Triggerwoman have to take the Gangster/mafia duo crown.
Bimbo Implanted Nora and SJ, the dildomaker need to have a different flavour as a duo. I want it to make it wackier, but not necessarily murder-y psychosis.
The vibe that I wish I could pull off would be: " female James Bond/ Mission Impossible meets Leslie Nielsen's Naked Gun, but make it a smutty musical with  C.M. Nascosta as a writing advisor.". Easy-peasy.
 

 

 

Fixing up Sanctuary, at least until the turrets are done, when Sturges says Sanctuary is done, can be done at Bimbo  level 1 (maybe even level 0 with enough care) 
And I am not talking about doing it in old school fashion, without ever visiting Wedge (but remember that IS an option too!), but doing all 4initial Wedge sessions, without triggering a level up.
With care and proper loadout (Clothing, piercings, alcohol, cleaning up and taking breaks in between, and plenty of burnable fuel for emergency AP,  and maybe without sex addiction as fuel for AP. Turned that off).

After that, when the generator and antenna session starts and WEdge and friends start using NukaRush, from that point on level 0 is no longer a viable option.
But again,  visiting Wedge is very much a choice, not mandatory.

Edited August 8, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[rilieAP]

Hi,

 

I'm not sure when it stopped working, but the high headcount animations stopped validating for me, even with it set to force on in in MCM.  If I then set the high headcount to enabled in the integration settings, it will switch back to off regardless.  I will keep playing around, I think that maybe for NAF users, we should not build our xml files with your MSMA AAF files present.  I'll let you know if anything works, but right now it is back to not working, and I just wanted to see if anything changed in the code.

 

I also wondering as a feature request, is there any way the Mister Sandman perk could allow you to kill a paralyzed NPC while they are down?  

[MSM_Alice]

1 hour ago, rilieAP said:

Hi,

 

I'm not sure when it stopped working, but the high headcount animations stopped validating for me, even with it set to force on in in MCM.  If I then set the high headcount to enabled in the integration settings, it will switch back to off regardless.  I will keep playing around, I think that maybe for NAF users, we should not build our xml files with your MSMA AAF files present.  I'll let you know if anything works, but right now it is back to not working, and I just wanted to see if anything changed in the code.

 

I also wondering as a feature request, is there any way the Mister Sandman perk could allow you to kill a paralyzed NPC while they are down?  

I did change the validation code, the goal was to validate both the MSMA ones and the one From Indarello. 
But I think NAF does not do validations the way AAF does, so the validation call always fails on NAF.  

Is it just that they do not validate in the MSMA MCM menu, but otherwise, if manually selected in an animation selector, do they work fine?

 

I'll look into enabling Mister Sandman for insta kill, though kind of makes kill by sexfight skill kinda of superfluous.

Edited August 8, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[Mimirue17]

2 hours ago, MSM_Alice said:

I did change the validation code, the goal was to validate both the MSMA ones and the one From Indarello. 
But I think NAF does not do validations the way AAF does, so the validation call always fails on NAF.  

Is it just that they do not validate in the MSMA MCM menu, but otherwise, if manually selected in an animation selector, do they work fine?

 

I'll look into enabling Mister Sandman for insta kill, though kind of makes kill by sexfight skill kinda of superfluous.

you do not need the patch as they validate and run fine without it as shown in a previous post.   Not sure if NAF will work with just the ones from here.   Using SC 1.30 if that helps.

[rilieAP]

3 hours ago, MSM_Alice said:

I'll look into enabling Mister Sandman for insta kill, though kind of makes kill by sexfight skill kinda of superfluous.

It's more for edge case scenarios, for example I was doing Fort Strong but while using Mommy-O.  So I was unarmed and not being attacked then using SH and SEU to slowly work through the muties, killing them off one by one.  So I mean more for when I got one to paralyze, but not kill and I want to mister sandman him while he's paralyzed, but without equipping weapons and making everyone else hostile.

 

1 hour ago, Mimirue17 said:

But I think NAF does not do validations the way AAF does, so the validation call always fails on NAF.  

Is it just that they do not validate in the MSMA MCM menu, but otherwise, if manually selected in an animation selector, do they work fine?

We had it working before, here's the available 10P animations, the MSMA one is there after building the XML files, so I'll just set it with this command.  Before it worked when we turned the force validation on in MCM.  I'll try it with the Set MSMA_Validated_ScAnim6Plus  to 1.0 command, save/load then check the headcount in violate after a surrender to see if it sets at 10P.

Spoiler

 

Edited August 8, 2025 by rilieAP

[MSM_Alice]

1 hour ago, rilieAP said:

It's more for edge case scenarios, for example I was doing Fort Strong but while using Mommy-O.  So I was unarmed and not being attacked then using SH and SEU to slowly work through the muties, killing them off one by one.  So I mean more for when I got one to paralyze, but not kill and I want to mister sandman him while he's paralyzed, but without equipping weapons and making everyone else hostile.

 

We had it working before, here's the available 10P animations, the MSMA one is there after building the XML files, so I'll just set it with this command.  Before it worked when we turned the force validation on in MCM.  I'll try it with the Set MSMA_Validated_ScAnim6Plus  to 1.0 command, save/load then check the headcount in violate after a surrender to see if it sets at 10P.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

 

You only need to use the settings that I put there specifically for NAF users, and you can stop worrying about what my AAF centric pre validation page says. That pre-validation uses some events that probably only trigger correctly on AAF.

Set that setting in the screenshot below to "2" (ForceOn), then hit "Refresh AAF Violate Settings for your Bimbo Level" and you should be good to go even with NAF, and you can ignore what says in the validation page in regard with the animation presence. 

I develop on AAF myself so I don't know much about NAF and NAF bridge, but those settings should tell the mod to blindly trust that optional high headcount anims ( 6p, 7P, 8p, 9P and 10p) are there for when they are needed, without doing a pre validation ( pre-validation which is done with AAF specific events, does not work on NAF).

Edited August 8, 2025 by MSM_Alice

[rilieAP]

27 minutes ago, MSM_Alice said:

"Refresh AAF Violate Settings for your Bimbo Level"

I had the setting, I just hadn't done the refresh.  I know you don't use NAF, but we fixed this before.  I'm guessing it's the refresh issue.