MSMA: SexFight (like "Succubus Drain") and Bimbofication

[msmfoster]

I haven't been able to get all that many scenes in of late. Been focused on importing my settlements which tie up a lot of time.

 

Sometimes she starts with 0 sex level and ends up at 90 by the time the import is done! Not a big, just funny in my mind. 

 

I did get the companion dialogue fault again. This was after a Violate scene. Reloaded prior and Ivy was happy to talk with me.

 

So I'm not sure if Violate was the issue or interactions with it. 

 

Do you want papyrus logs if this happens again?

 

Otherwise it seems to be working great!

[Mimirue17]

Wonder if a Bimbo can get addicted to the synth cum....she is gulping that stuff down after each long rest (to reset nympho cycle).

 

It seems like the Visitor mod and its NPC do not function well with the cravings system.   The wont even work unless you recruit them to your settlement, and then they walk off if choose the option for them to follow you to secluded spot.   This is not the first time they have caused issues like this, they do the same thing if using the Pervert Mod and going to the cell it uses for sex scenes (similar to the shack used here) as they do not always show up in the cell.   Just a note, as a use at your own risk, results may vary type of thing.

[MSM_Alice]

3 hours ago, msmfoster said:

I haven't been able to get all that many scenes in of late. Been focused on importing my settlements which tie up a lot of time.

 

Sometimes she starts with 0 sex level and ends up at 90 by the time the import is done! Not a big, just funny in my mind. 

 

I did get the companion dialogue fault again. This was after a Violate scene. Reloaded prior and Ivy was happy to talk with me.

 

So I'm not sure if Violate was the issue or interactions with it. 

 

Do you want papyrus logs if this happens again?

 

Otherwise it seems to be working great!

A papyruslog could be useful, but to more directly rule out a certain subsystem as the culprit if that ever happens again, can you check if, when this dialogue is blocked, the global variable  MSMA_Status_DontTalkToMe is on 0 or 1 at that time
 

just type
help MSMA_Status_DontTalkToMe
in console. 

If it is set on 0, all dialogue should be running normally (as far as this subsystem is concerned).

If it is set on 1, it means the MSMA has the "dialogue blocker" activated, as if you were midway into a prostitution scene and you don't want random incoming dialogue.. 


And then, as a follow-up test, you can go into the mcm and reset (and turn off that  subsystem),  to see if your follower talks with you again after that and if indeed thissubsystem was the culprit.  
 Go in the MSMA MCM, in the MSMA QoH Settings page, and there look for : 

" Reset the status for PC Dialogue Blocker."  ( button) 
" Disable NPC Dialogue to Player during Player AAF scenes." ( setting - can set that to 0 )


What's puzzling for me is that I also have a periodic check of this blocker  ( 30 seconds loop or so) for this system to autocorrect itself, is the AAF scene was like brutally suspended without a normal exit thatwould reset the dialogue blocker, MSMA also periodically does additional check of if the player is not in an aaf scene, and if find thatthe oplayer is indeed not in an AAF scene,  not and turns off the dialogue blocker if it happened to be on ( and logs the problematic event to the papyrus log).
So this dialogue blocked status should self-resolve in 30 seconds or from occurring anyway, but it seems it does not self resolve in your case, so I am really wondering, what subsystem is REALLY at fault for the dialogue blocking? Maybe it isnot my Dialogue blcoker after all.  
Cuz it sounds like it might be a "sticky" dialogue Blocker, but then, why doesn't it self-correct?
The edge case that would explain that situation is if both the dialogue blocker is on and also, at the same time,  somehow also the  IsInScene() check is also stuck to on ( which can sometimes happen due to some DD items or Plugs as far as I can tell) .
That particular state/interaction would indeed prevent the self-correct of the dialogue blockers from running, because if the player is already in a dialogue scene (in theory), this would mean the dialogue mode wasn't blocked to begin with, so no need to turn on the Dialogue blocker-self correct.
 

Edited March 19 by MSM_Alice

[MSM_Alice]

3 hours ago, Mimirue17 said:

Wonder if a Bimbo can get addicted to the synth cum....she is gulping that stuff down after each long rest (to reset nympho cycle).

I mean, in theory, yes, but isn't the belly inflation and the nixing of bimbo point gains for 24 hours, and then the nixing of XP gains from fluids (until most of it is processed), punishment enough? If the "medicine becomes the disease," isn't it a bit too harsh?
I mean, if you do take one after each long rest,  you are functionally addicted to it anyway, no need to reinforce that in other ways

 

 

Quote

It seems like the Visitor mod and its NPC do not function well with the cravings system.   The wont even work unless you recruit them to your settlement, and then they walk off if choose the option for them to follow you to secluded spot.   This is not the first time they have caused issues like this, they do the same thing if using the Pervert Mod and going to the cell it uses for sex scenes (similar to the shack used here) as they do not always show up in the cell.   Just a note, as a use at your own risk, results may vary type of thing.

I guess that visitor has some AI package that insists they should be elsewhere, and is actively overriding what the prostitution Player Follower Alias AI package tells them to do.  
Can you give me a link? 
Maybe I can just prevent them from entering the Prostitution system to begin with (remove them from the pool of valid interaction targets, for both prostitution and loss of control) .

Edited March 19 by MSM_Alice

[MSM_Alice]

4 hours ago, msmfoster said:

I haven't been able to get all that many scenes in of late. Been focused on importing my settlements which tie up a lot of time.

 

Sometimes she starts with 0 sex level and ends up at 90 by the time the import is done! Not a big, just funny in my mind. 

 

I did get the companion dialogue fault again. This was after a Violate scene. Reloaded prior and Ivy was happy to talk with me.

 

So I'm not sure if Violate was the issue or interactions with it. 

 

Do you want papyrus logs if this happens again?

 

Otherwise it seems to be working great!

Another question, if you did the above and it turns out it is no the dialogue blocker, can you also check if you are in an infiltration or not? 
Could it be that you were considered to be mid-infiltration, and that is why the dialogue was blocked?

Infiltration status is outlined via Notification, on the optional HUD, or in general stats in the implant menu.
 

Edited March 19 by MSM_Alice

[Mimirue17]

1 hour ago, MSM_Alice said:

I mean, in theory, yes, but isn't the belly inflation and the nixing of bimbo point gains for 24 hours, and then the nixing of XP gains from fluids (until most of it is processed), punishment enough? If the "medicine becomes the disease," isn't it a bit too harsh?
I mean, if you do take one after each long rest,  you are functionally addicted to it anyway, no need to reinforce that in other ways

 

 

I guess that visitor has some AI package that insists they should be elsewhere, and is actively overriding what the prostitution Player Follower Alias AI package tells them to do.  
Can you give me a link? 
Maybe I can just prevent them from entering the Prostitution system to begin with (remove them from the pool of valid interaction targets, for both prostitution and loss of control) .

https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/92845

 

[MSM_Alice]

39 minutes ago, Mimirue17 said:

https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/92845

 

Thank you.
And the only problem with them is that they don't dynamically follow to a back alley,  but everything else runs okay (intro convo, outro convo, payment, visits to the shack and whatnot). Is that correct? Or is there more to it than that?

Edited March 19 by MSM_Alice

[Mimirue17]

Just now, MSM_Alice said:

Thank you.
And the only problem with them is that they don't dynamically follow  to a back alley,  but everything else runs okay (intro convo, outro convo, payment, visits to shack and whatnot) 

Timer ran out as I could not find them as I though they were following.   I decided to just remove it for now as they are not very usable for Sexual Harassment as well, and am testing the new fork of it currently.

[MSM_Alice]

53 minutes ago, Mimirue17 said:

Timer ran out as I could not find them as I though they were following.   I decided to just remove it for now as they are not very usable for Sexual Harassment as well, and am testing the new fork of it currently.

I could also add a fallback of if you are in that "find a spot" mode, pressing the sexfight hotkey would just teleport the customer to you, from wherever they were,  and start the interaction. It will help if they genuinely get stuck too, visitor or no visitor.

Edited March 19 by MSM_Alice

[msmfoster]

1 hour ago, MSM_Alice said:

Thank you.
And the only problem with them is that they don't dynamically follow to a back alley,  but everything else runs okay (intro convo, outro convo, payment, visits to the shack and whatnot). Is that correct? Or is there more to it than that?

I mentioned this before, but I use the Vulgar Visitors (add-on) element that triggers AAF. Sort of a mild autonomous sex that doesn't generally interfere with your ability to buy a sell. 

 

If you go to a secluded shack they will not come back with you. Clearly they are temporary in nature. I'd argue that if you can check for such a temporary state that it might solve a lot of problems. 

 

I also assume it's the same risk with Human Resources which spawns visitors. 

[msmfoster]

4 hours ago, MSM_Alice said:

Another question, if you did the above and it turns out it is no the dialogue blocker, can you also check if you are in an infiltration or not? 
Could it be that you were considered to be mid-infiltration, and that is why the dialogue was blocked?

Infiltration status is outlined via Notification, on the optional HUD, or in general stats in the implant menu.
 

I did not check states in the console. However, I went through the Debug to disable to dialogue blocker along with others that seemed relevant. None of it worked. 

 

Since Violate triggered I was in infiltrate. Why would it prevent me from talking to my companion?

 

Potential idea? When something weird goes on, how about a debug option that dumps MSMA state into the Papyrus log. That way you can get everything you need?

 

Now I don't trigger Violate often. Just glad I checked her dialogue around that time. Hate going back hours to get it fixed. 

Edited March 19 by msmfoster

[MSM_Alice]

46 minutes ago, msmfoster said:

I mentioned this before, but I use the Vulgar Visitors (add-on) element that triggers AAF. Sort of a mild autonomous sex that doesn't generally interfere with your ability to buy a sell. 

 

If you go to a secluded shack they will not come back with you. Clearly they are temporary in nature. I'd argue that if you can check for such a temporary state that it might solve a lot of problems. 

 

I also assume it's the same risk with Human Resources which spawns visitors. 

 

Depends on what "Temporary "means in this instance.  Depends on how the mod handles and manages them. Depends on a lot of things.
No persistent shoudn;t be an issue since they are populated into aliases, which should make them persistent for a while. 

So they come to the shack, perform in the shack, but they are not found on return, so can they pay?
It makes sense if travel is with fast travel, as game time goes forward a few hours, and maybe their temporary "life fuse" runs out. 

I can perhaps identify those and only allow them "activities" on the spot, never to the shack. 
Usuare if ther e is a IsPersistent check, and even itf it were i have no idea if their "impermanence"is from a flag in the engine, or simply by the mod's management scripts that depsawn them/move them elsewhere ( even if they ewere flagged as persistent entities). 

[MSM_Alice]

43 minutes ago, msmfoster said:

I did not check states in the console. However, I went through the Debug to disable to dialogue blocker along with others that seemed relevant. None of it worked. 

 

Since Violate triggered I was in infiltrate. Why would it prevent me from talking to my companion?

 

Potential idea? When something weird goes on, how about a debug option that dumps MSMA state into the Papyrus log. That way you can get everything you need?

 

Now I don't trigger Violate often. Just glad I checked her dialogue around that time. Hate going back hours to get it fixed. 

Infiltrate means that both you and your current follower have your "undetectable" flag set for the duration of the infiltration.
This undetectable state often means "cannot be seen," and that includes being unable to be seen for the purpose of starting a conversation, which means the conversation does not start. 
Infiltration might need to be over for regular conversations to be possible. 

I wonder if I can either force the dialogue to start even if the entities cannot "see" each other, or at least intercept the activation and present a pop-up with "You'll have to wait with this conversation until the infiltration is over". 


I am currently considering some finer touches to the infiltration system, and those two items might be it : 

• - Have an activator menu on the current follower notifying the player that conversations during infiltrations are more limited 
• - Have a setting for infiltration that decides an additional start condition 
  • - Infiltration always starts if Sexfight conditions are met. 
  • - Infiltration always starts if Sexfight conditions are met and the current interaction is/was a Violate Interaction. 
  • - infiltration starts if Sexfight conditions are met AND it was a Violate interaction OR the enemy must be hostile to the player (does not start if the sexfight partner was friendly) 
  • - infiltration does not start even if Sexfight conditions are met (turned off by the player)

 

[msmfoster]

12 minutes ago, MSM_Alice said:

Infiltrate means that both you and your current follower have your "undetectable" flag set for the duration of the infiltration.
This undetectable state often means "cannot be seen," and that includes being unable to be seen for the purpose of starting a conversation, which means the conversation does not start. 
Infiltration might need to be over for regular conversations to be possible. 

I wonder if I can either force the dialogue to start even if the entities cannot "see" each other, or at least intercept the activation and present a pop-up with "You'll have to wait with this conversation until the infiltration is over". 


I am currently considering some finer touches to the infiltration system, and those two items might be it : 

• - Have an activator menu on the current follower notifying the player that conversations during infiltrations are more limited 
• - Have a setting for infiltration that decides an additional start condition 
  • - Infiltration always starts if Sexfight conditions are met. 
  • - Infiltration always starts if Sexfight conditions are met and the current interaction is/was a Violate Interaction. 
  • - infiltration starts if Sexfight conditions are met AND it was a Violate interaction OR the enemy must be hostile to the player (does not start if the sexfight partner was friendly) 
  • - infiltration does not start even if Sexfight conditions are met (turned off by the player)

 

Might not be a bad thing, I've had Infiltration start up due to Provocative Perks triggering a scene in a player controlled settlement. 

 

Likely a bridge to far, but infiltration ending when all opponents are dead?

[msmfoster]

23 minutes ago, MSM_Alice said:

 

Depends on what "Temporary "means in this instance.  Depends on how the mod handles and manages them. Depends on a lot of things.
No persistent shoudn;t be an issue since they are populated into aliases, which should make them persistent for a while. 

So they come to the shack, perform in the shack, but they are not found on return, so can they pay?
It makes sense if travel is with fast travel, as game time goes forward a few hours, and maybe their temporary "life fuse" runs out. 

I can perhaps identify those and only allow them "activities" on the spot, never to the shack. 
Usuare if ther e is a IsPersistent check, and even itf it were i have no idea if their "impermanence"is from a flag in the engine, or simply by the mod's management scripts that depsawn them/move them elsewhere ( even if they ewere flagged as persistent entities). 

I think it's more a case that when you return to the settlement Vulgar Visitors, Sim Settlements 2, and Human Resources likely spawn a fresh list of NPCs. That effectively erases the one you were with. 

 

Now neither Human Resources and Vulgar Visitors allows you to target these people in Workshop mode. That might be a detail that would help you to ignore a solicitation request. 

 

Sexual Harassment also does not trigger for Vulgar Visitors, but first for Human Resources. 

[MSM_Alice]

23 minutes ago, msmfoster said:

Might not be a bad thing, I've had Infiltration start up due to Provocative Perks triggering a scene in a player controlled settlement. 

 

Likely a bridge to far, but infiltration ending when all opponents are dead?

Infiltration does not start if enemies are punished with death. Big punishments have to be suppressed for infiltration to  even start.
(Except if a bimbo- agent of sufficient level, who is allowed to paralyze) 
Infiltration should stop when even one single enemy is killed (less for the agent who can bilbo kill a paralyzed enemy in infiltration).

Do you want to take this power away from the agent?
I think they should keep it, it's part of what makes the class special/worthwhile.  If too easy, you can reduce the infiltration distance or timer. So, as you leave the area where the infiltration was started, the infiltration stops. 

Edited March 19 by MSM_Alice

[msmfoster]

1 hour ago, MSM_Alice said:

Infiltration does not start if enemies are punished with death. Big punishments have to be suppressed for infiltration to  even start.
(Except if a bimbo- agent of sufficient level, who is allowed to paralyze) 
Infiltration should stop when even one single enemy is killed (less for the agent who can bilbo kill a paralyzed enemy in infiltration).

Do you want to take this power away from the agent?
I think they should keep it, it's part of what makes the class special/worthwhile.  If too easy, you can reduce the infiltration distance or timer. So, as you leave the area where the infiltration was started, the infiltration stops. 

Oh, I have agent bimbo and it's useful to do bimbo sandman kills. I'm just saying if there were two raiders, and you killed both. Why would you maintain infiltration?

 

However, I don't see that as a big problem. Just a thought. 

[MSM_Alice]

9 minutes ago, msmfoster said:

Oh, I have agent bimbo and it's useful to do bimbo sandman kills. I'm just saying if there were two raiders, and you killed both. Why would you maintain infiltration?

 

However, I don't see that as a big problem. Just a thought. 

As a tactical advantage for the agent (when compared with other classes),  so they can continue/extend infiltration via one-on-one interactions, and not have to go through a big surrender again. 

 

Or you mean what is the story/logic on why the infiltration does not end? 
Maybe the other enemies that were further away overheard the "fun -having sounds" from earlier and still assume everything is okay with their colleagues when they see you. 
They have no clue their colleagues were paralyzed- and bimbo killed after.

Edited March 19 by MSM_Alice

[msmfoster]

15 minutes ago, MSM_Alice said:

As a tactical advantage for the agent (when compared with other classes),  so they can continue/extend infiltration via one-on-one interactions, and not have to go through a big surrender again. 

 

Or you mean what is the story/logic on why the infiltration does not end? 
Maybe the other enemies that were further away overheard the "fun -having sounds" from earlier and still assume everything is okay with their colleagues when they see you. 
They have no clue their colleagues were paralyzed- and bimbo killed after.

Your logic is sound. I was applying it to a more specific element, such as the lone raider by Somerville. Interrupt the work on his sculpture, surrender, infiltrate and kill. Effectively there's no one else around after that. 

 

Still, it's very specific and likely rare. If you knew how many were in the area, you could in theory end infiltration once they are all dead. 

 

Keeping it as is is fine. I'll be sure to see if infiltration is the problem for companion interactions. I'll let you know, assuming I can replicate... 

[Mimirue17]

1 hour ago, msmfoster said:

Your logic is sound. I was applying it to a more specific element, such as the lone raider by Somerville. Interrupt the work on his sculpture, surrender, infiltrate and kill. Effectively there's no one else around after that. 

 

Still, it's very specific and likely rare. If you knew how many were in the area, you could in theory end infiltration once they are all dead. 

 

Keeping it as is is fine. I'll be sure to see if infiltration is the problem for companion interactions. I'll let you know, assuming I can replicate... 

Just curious, is the issue with a standard NPC in the game or one added by a mod?  That seems to be an important factor here as its hard to account for behavior of NPC's that were added by other mod authors.

[MSM_Alice]

1 hour ago, Mimirue17 said:

Just curious, is the issue with a standard NPC in the game or one added by a mod?  That seems to be an important factor here as its hard to account for behavior of NPC's that were added by other mod authors.

Things can get quite complex. 

Based on my current understanding of the Creation Engine concepts ( which might not be 100% correct anyway) : 
ObjectReferences in the creation engine can be persistent or non-persistent. 
The non persistent ones get unloaded /destroyed when the current cell gets unloaded from memory. 
The persistent ones stay and hang around.

Both vanilla ones can be either that or the other.
Custom-added ones can also be either that or the other.
The difference does not come from "Standard NPC" or  "added by a mod NPC",  but by the type of entity and how it was set up, and how it is being managed.

Also, to further complicate things, a non-persistent reference can become persistent for a while if it is populated into an alias or a property that forces it to be persistent. 
There are also direct operations that a script can do on an ObjectReference.


So TLDR: i don;t know how reliably "there" an ObjectReference from a third party mod would be, and if it is going to be there after a round-trip to a remote shack. 
So more checks are probably in order. 

Just checking for its persistence status and default assumptions might be irrelevant if additional manual management of that entity is done from a script from a third-party mod, based on a series of conditions and behaviours coded in that mod, that I have 0 insight into.
Let's say i decide to populate it into an alias to force its persistence for a while, does that throw a wrench in the gears of the scripts managing the mod, that expect that to be not persistent?
Maybe? Maybe not? No clue unless I understand what that mod does. 

Edited March 19 by MSM_Alice

[msmfoster]

Are conversations supposed to initiate while using a workbench? I was creating an Automatron for provisioning duties and a male NPC approached and my character immediately begged for sex. I only heard it, but clearly the dialogue was active the moment I left the robot workbench. 1_0503.

[Mimirue17]

I get the your hair is gorgeous or your beautiful comments all the time while in workshop mode, so could easily see that triggering a craving discussion as the npc is right next to you.

[agent_hermit]

Is it possible to effectively use the succubus mechanic without the bimbo gear?

[msmfoster]

4 hours ago, Mimirue17 said:

I get the your hair is gorgeous or your beautiful comments all the time while in workshop mode, so could easily see that triggering a craving discussion as the npc is right next to you.

Oh same for comments but those are fairly benign. When you solicit them they start following you around slowly and become and obstruction. When you leave workshop mode, you may not be able to get back into it because they are trying to talk to you. Annoying, but livable. Sexual Harassment was really bad for getting interrupted in builds.