MSMA: SexFight (like "Succubus Drain") and Bimbofication

[Nea_Bessy]

3 hours ago, MSM_Alice said:

Bimbopoints are spent (4 BP) when you buy the bimbo mod from Marina.
Do you want an additional cost aside from those 4 bp, every time one would mount such a mod in an armor?

You can always use them as alternate AP fuel for tough sexfights if you run out of ideas (and never seem to need more like for the synthetic fluids cans or whatnot).
Aside from those three use-cases ( AP fuel, buying bimbo mods, or Synthetic fluid can for craving repression) , normally, bimbo points are also used for

- getting piercings
- getting clothing and shoes
- getting accessories
- bodypart size increases/decreases
- rejuvenation interventions
- lowering Sex fame with face changes
- changing the class of hairdo or make-up.
- depraved tattoo removal
- nice tattoos

I guess I could also have them be a more direct way to repress out-of-control cravings when in a tough spot, not just willpower and CVT?
(not just indirectly via using them to buy the can of synthetic juices and deal with cravings that way)

 

Thank you. But, in my opinion, it would be good to complicate the sexualization of clothes on armorbebch somehow. It's too easy.

I used to have to earn Binbopoints, go to Marina. And now I just approach any armorbench and immediately sexualize the entire wardrobe.

 

Maybe it's worth the money, at least? For example, 50 caps.

[MSM_Alice]

51 minutes ago, Nea_Bessy said:

 

Thank you. But, in my opinion, it would be good to complicate the sexualization of clothes on armorbebch somehow. It's too easy.

I used to have to earn Binbopoints, go to Marina. And now I just approach any armorbench and immediately sexualize the entire wardrobe.

 

Maybe it's worth the money, at least? For example, 50 caps.

And do you do that without first buying the mods from Marina?
Or you do that at level 0 with the level 0 mod?

 

In theory, Level 1 2 3 4 5 6 and 7 bimbo clothing/armor mods have no recipe, and shouldn't be craftable ( but maybe having no recipe means they are always craftable ?) 
Only Level 0 clothing mods should be craftable. And Power Armor Torso bimbo mod, for extra room.

Are they craftable?

Edited March 26 by MSM_Alice

[Mimirue17]

2 hours ago, MSM_Alice said:

And do you do that without first buying the mods from Marina?
Or you do that at level 0 with the level 0 mod?

 

In theory, Level 1 2 3 4 5 6 and 7 bimbo clothing/armor mods have no recipe, and shouldn't be craftable ( but maybe having no recipe means they are always craftable ?) 
Only Level 0 clothing mods should be craftable. And Power Armor Torso bimbo mod, for extra room.

Are they craftable?

unless some mod is allowing it like ESO or other crafting mods - only level 0 MSMA Sexualization is open at the armor workbench starting at bimbo level 1 where you get the perk Bimbo smithing or something like that.   After that you have to purchase the weave from Marina to add to clothes for correct level (i,e, 1-7 as they appear in the weave category as msma 1 or 2 for example) .   You can now always install MSMA level 0 (after bimbo level 1) and use the trunk to upgrade but it costs the same 4 bimbo points.   

 

Might I suggest the cost increases per level (configurable in mcm perhaps) every level is 1.5x times higher then the last one?   Even by the time you reach bimbo 4 you have a ton of BP and even if you bought every piercing and all the gear you still have boatloads of it.

 

Another suggestion would be to charge 20 bp for a specialist level (conversation with Marina on Terrace would be required) and only available if you have achieved something new - like new size, Galactic Orgasam, certain body count increase, new SM feat (Marina Loves to hear about those!) etc.   These would replace the free ones we get as an alternative to getting them through the future quests like you mentioned.

 

Just some ideas, these are based on the Air Head/Power route (only ones I have played, so do not know how others work) so might need to adjust for the paths that have less sex

Edited March 26 by Mimirue17

[MSM_Alice]

1 hour ago, Mimirue17 said:

unless some mod is allowing it like ESO or other crafting mods - only level 0 MSMA Sexualization is open at the armor workbench starting at bimbo level 1 where you get the perk Bimbo smithing or something like that.   After that you have to purchase the weave from Marina to add to clothes for correct level (i,e, 1-7 as they appear in the weave category as msma 1 or 2 for example) .   You can now always install MSMA level 0 (after bimbo level 1) and use the trunk to upgrade but it costs the same 4 bimbo points.   

 

Might I suggest the cost increases per level (configurable in mcm perhaps) every level is 1.5x times higher then the last one?   Even by the time you reach bimbo 4 you have a ton of BP and even if you bought every piercing and all the gear you still have boatloads of it.

 

Another suggestion would be to charge 20 bp for a specialist level (conversation with Marina on Terrace would be required) and only available if you have achieved something new - like new size, Galactic Orgasam, certain body count increase, new SM feat (Marina Loves to hear about those!) etc.   These would replace the free ones we get as an alternative to getting them through the future quests like you mentioned.

 

Just some ideas, these are based on the Air Head/Power route (only ones I have played, so do not know how others work) so might need to adjust for the paths that have less sex

They are good ideas.

What I am thinking now in terms of extra uses for BP, though, is not using them to advance Bimbo specialist skills ( though I'll admit it is an interesting idea), but using them to increase sexual profficiencies via a conversation with QOH.
Right now, these sexual proficiencies exist, produce effects, but are not that visible/don't evolve that fast. 


Better sexual profficiencies would allow you to stay at a lower level bimbo level but be able to take on tougher enemies (that right now kinda require you to you increase your bimbo level to have a chance).
These sexual profficiencies, I think, right now you can only inspect at Marina with "See raw implant stats".

Increasing them significantly ( via bimbopoints)  would allow you to  "punch above your weight category(bimbo levle)" in terms of sexfight. 

 

 

The bimbo subclasses should be done via dialogue because it enforces/aligns a behaviour in line with the subclass.
When you tell Sturges that you'd rather scavenge for equipment than visit Wedge, that is a natural Not-A-Bimbo point.
When youtell Wedge, "I'm not into this, but we need the ...." , that's the Bimbo Agent pragmatism.
And then there will be lines for Airhead and power bimbo, too, where the player jumps in with more enthusiasm.

Seems more... consistent this way.

 

Edited March 26 by MSM_Alice

[ItsJustPage]

5 minutes ago, MSM_Alice said:

They are good ideas.

What I am thinking now in terms of extra uses for BP, though, is not using them to advance Bimbo specialist skills ( though I'll admit it is an interesting idea), but using them to increase sexual profficiencies via a conversation with QOH.
Right now, these sexual proficiencies exist, produce effects, but are not that visible/don't evolve that fast. 


Better sexual profficiencies would allow you to stay at a lower level bimbo level but be able to take on tougher enemies (that right now kinda require you to you increase your bimbo level to have a chance).
These sexual profficiencies, I think, right now you can only inspect at Marina with "See raw implant stats".

Increasing them significantly ( via bimbopoints)  would allow you to  "punch above your weight category(bimbo levle)" in terms of sexfight. 

Ooh what about cursed mods, they would push your effective bimbo level to +1 of your current bimbo level to give you an edge for resist bimbos.

 

But it comes at the cost of increasing your cvts by 2x and they reduce at 0.5x, swapping to a standard bimbo mod would remove the negatives but could lead to proverbial pants around the ankles if you're not careful.

 

Make it costly like 30-50 bimbo points, and boom both a point sink and a new way to get power.

[MSM_Alice]

11 minutes ago, ItsJustPage said:

Ooh what about cursed mods, they would push your effective bimbo level to +1 of your current bimbo level to give you an edge for resist bimbos.

 

But it comes at the cost of increasing your cvts by 2x and they reduce at 0.5x, swapping to a standard bimbo mod would remove the negatives but could lead to proverbial pants around the ankles if you're not careful.

 

Make it costly like 30-50 bimbo points, and boom both a point sink and a new way to get power.

So an item that gives you a temporary boost to bimbo level.

Hmmm.... It sounds interesting, but it complicates the architecture a fair bit. 

Right now, the core assumptions are that the levels progress one by one, and once they have increased, they are permanently increased ( as these increase, they unlock access to some things that will have to be locked back up when the temp level disappears. In some cases, it is hard to put the genie back in the bottle in a clean way).
Makes systems harder to manage and follow.



I did have a plan for a limit-break type move in sexfight. A "desperation" button. When you basically willingly allow QOH to take full control of your body.
That instantly breaks all enemies, no matter how tough they are, and can only be done once per day or so. 
Initially, I thought I could make that cost a bunch of CVT advancements, but maybe I can make that cost 30-40 BP  instead.

 

Edited March 26 by MSM_Alice

[Mimirue17]

12 minutes ago, MSM_Alice said:

So an item that gives you a temporary boost to bimbo level.

Hmmm.... It sounds interesting, but it complicates the architecture a fair bit. 

Right now, the core assumptions are that the levels progress one by one, and once they have increased, they are permanently increased ( as these increase, they unlock access to some things that will have to be locked back up when the temp level disappears. In some cases, it is hard to put the genie back in the bottle in a clean way).
Makes systems harder to manage and follow.



I did have a plan for a limit-break type move in sexfight. A "desperation" button. When you basically willingly allow QOH to take full control of your body.
That instantly breaks all enemies, no matter how tough they are, and can only be done once per day or so. 
Initially, I thought I could make that cost a bunch of CVT advancements, but maybe I can make that cost 30-40 BP  instead.

 

oh that emergency QoH help sounds very interesting, as by the time you build up that kind of  bp reserve you are venturing into the level range where you start getting SM, Deathclaws and Rad Scorions etc.   Would also open up extending dialogue with QoH and Marina around the situation which I am all for.

[MSM_Alice]

13 minutes ago, Mimirue17 said:

oh that emergency QoH help sounds very interesting, as by the time you build up that kind of  bp reserve you are venturing into the level range where you start getting SM, Deathclaws and Rad Scorions etc.   Would also open up extending dialogue with QoH and Marina around the situation which I am all for.

It usually meant to sort a particularly nasty situation that normally one wouldn't even consider defeatable in the slightest at their current bimbo level.  
Like when all of Corvega lines up, when you're still too low level to make it through that marathon, you've wandered by that factory immediately after saving Preston. 
Or an insane enemy, like Swan.

Not something mundane.
Yes, if used in Violate, it would take care of all lined-up enemies from all upcoming scenes in that Violate sequence.

Edited March 26 by MSM_Alice

[eerieuser]

im having an issue where i cannot progress in the mod as it wants me to access the implant menu, but i cannot set up the keybind to open it as the mcm says that im missing commoisturizer.esp . i have installed and reinstalled the mod, as well as tried installing the prior version with no success, what should i do?

[msmfoster]

Upgraded to level 1_0524 today and the I noticed some oddities when I first got into combat. I prayed a mirelurk with a massive amount of plasma rounds and it was not dying. This was after a free trip to the Cambridge raider area. 

 

After fixing up some things in settlements, I went out to the school near Murkwater Construction, Suffolk County Charter School. The following behavior was observed:

• Could not open Novice locks despite having 4 locksmith.
• Could not hack any terminal despite having level 2.
• Taking no real damage as expected for a Level 110, but damage output is about what you'd expect of a base character. Character is at level 110, normally a base ghoul and explosive shotgun is more than you need. 
• A glowing ghoul was apparently too much for me to handle in a sexfight and I win all the time with 10 people.
• Could not do a bimbo kill, but that's likely expected.
• Refused to run because over-encumbered but I'm maxed out on Strongback.

 

Perks show up fine, but clearly something is up. Only difference was updating MSMA. I'll play around a bit to see what's going on. 

 

Update: Leaving and returning to the game seems to have corrected the issue. Her low damage input may actually have something to do with the Provocative Perk Edge Rider. When she's on the edge of an orgasm her damage massive increases, at level 10 she takes a hit. Overall, a peculiar occurrence. 

 

Still getting random requests for ignoring cravings. Sure I may not have been in workshop or at an armour bench, but who cares if she wants cock? I only care if she's about to force me into a scene.

Edited March 26 by msmfoster

[MSM_Alice]

44 minutes ago, msmfoster said:

 

 

Still getting random requests for ignoring cravings. Sure I may not have been in workshop or at an armour bench, but who cares if she wants cock? I only care if she's about to force me into a scene.

Once more: there is an MCM option that can turn that pop-up off.

Close it /turn it off, and give it no further thought.

Posting the photo again so you  can find it easily in the MCM:
 

Edited March 26 by MSM_Alice

[MSM_Alice]

52 minutes ago, eerieuser said:

im having an issue where i cannot progress in the mod as it wants me to access the implant menu, but i cannot set up the keybind to open it as the mcm says that im missing commoisturizer.esp . i have installed and reinstalled the mod, as well as tried installing the prior version with no success, what should i do?

Hello.

You indeed do need to set up your Hotkeys. At the very least, the implant key and the sexfightkey.

ComMoisturiser mod is indeed a must-have; that's why it is listed and linked on the first page.
It needs to be already installed when you start your playthrough (not added later).
That being said, in general, MCM hotkey mappings are not affected by the presence or absence of third-party mods.

But Com Moisturiser does need to be there when you start your playthrough for a proper experience; it is a must-have.

 

 

Edited March 26 by MSM_Alice

[eerieuser]

i restarted the run, with commoisturizer installed, but the mcm menu still says im missing the esp

[msmfoster]

30 minutes ago, MSM_Alice said:

Once more: there is an MCM option that can turn that pop-up off.

Close it /turn it off, and give it no further thought.

Posting the photo again so you  can find it easily in the MCM:
 

I get that. I like the concept of resisting loss of control, just at a different time. 

 

As in, it should only trigger if the character is about to actually give into the cravings. I don't care if she muses about wanting dick, or gang bangs and so forth. 

 

I do care if she's about to offer free sex when I really need her to 'focus' and talk to her. Hence why I recommended skipping scans and other stuff and sort of making it a game challenge. She's about to offer a gang bang or to take it up the ass, trigger the sex fight sound and respond if you want to use willpower to avoid. 

 

Overall, you already check for that and it adds a rapid reaction mini-game to the affair. 

 

As it stands, I see it as a nuisance, because you are resisting what exactly when you are along walking through the wasteland or building something at Spectacle Island.

[eerieuser]

the main issue is that it just will not let me access the mod menu to do anything, as im just greeted with the missing esp message

 

[Nea_Bessy]

I often have a problem that I can't solve and have to roll back to an earlier save.
 

Spoiler

It happens like this. At some point, when pressing the Sexfight/Charm/Prostitution button, the popup does not appear, the music starts playing and I am dragged into the sex room, I am alone there.
If you press the Sexfight/Charm/Prostitution button several times before moving, such a popup appears,
 

Spoiler

 

When I try to do this, this popup appears.

 

Spoiler

 

It's hard to see, but it says it.:

"Player is still busy with an AAF scene. Try this later, after the scene ends."

 

There's nothing else you can do.

Is there any way to solve this problem without returning to the old save?

 

[MSM_Alice]

 

6 hours ago, eerieuser said:

i restarted the run, with commoisturizer installed, but the mcm menu still says im missing the esp

Is it likely that that is exactly what happens.
You ARE indeed missing the ESP (who knows, maybe it is not toggled on in your Mod organiser window or maybe it is a corrupted file).

 

 

6 hours ago, eerieuser said:

the main issue is that it just will not let me access the mod menu to do anything, as im just greeted with the missing esp message

 

Are you sure that is an MSMA pop-up, and not MCM  itself complaining about dependencies not being fulfilled?

I am telling MCM that MSMA is dependent on ComMoisturizer.esp presence. 

That is why, if you open the MSMA MCM menu, if mcm sees ComMoisturizer.esp is trully absent, it will warn you about it and not allow you to operate the MSMA menu at all. 
    "pluginRequirements": ["AAF.esm", "FPAttributes.esp", "ComMoisturizer.esp", "MSMA_Sexual_Journey.esp"],

If MCM serves you that warning/pop-up when you try to access the MSMA MCM, it means that indeed ComMoisturizer.esp is not loaded on your system, and until you install it correctly( and then you start your playthrough), things won't work. 

 

I will move ComMoisurizer into the critical must-haves requirements category on the first page, to be even clearer that one indeed needs to install it correctly (and that includes having its esp present and active in the load order) before they can proceed.

Maybe you got a corrupted download of ComMoisturizer, but 100%  if MCM too thinks you do not have ComMoisturizer installed correctly, it is time to accept that you might not have ComMoisturizer installed correctly, and attempt to remedy that. 

Then start a new playthrough and everything should work.
 

Edited March 27 by MSM_Alice

[MSM_Alice]

4 hours ago, Nea_Bessy said:

I often have a problem that I can't solve and have to roll back to an earlier save.
 

  Reveal hidden contents

It happens like this. At some point, when pressing the Sexfight/Charm/Prostitution button, the popup does not appear, the music starts playing and I am dragged into the sex room, I am alone there.
If you press the Sexfight/Charm/Prostitution button several times before moving, such a popup appears,
 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

When I try to do this, this popup appears.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

It's hard to see, but it says it.:

"Player is still busy with an AAF scene. Try this later, after the scene ends."

 

There's nothing else you can do.

Is there any way to solve this problem without returning to the old save?

 

Sounds like this one might be NAF/NAF Bridge-centric issue.
The AAF_BUSY flag presence on player  is used to check if the player is in an animation scene, and it seems that flag is on you, even if you are not, in fact, in a scene.


It could be that this happened

1 - An initial yet-to-be-determined situation caused the customer NPC to be missing on arrival in the remote shack. ( that should be investigated, and context on when /how that happens would be welcome -this has nothing to do with NAF or AAF so far. It could be that the NPC was part of another quest, and that quest script yanked them to where they needed to be, away from the prostitution shack.

2. The sex scene started in an erroneous state due to the partner being unloaded/too far away, but the MSMA Prostitution system assumed that he must be there since he was just teleported.

3. On that path, (starting a AAF scene where one of the actors is unloaded/too far away) ) on NAF, it seem there is a slip-up on error handling and, unlike in AAF, the AAF_Busy flag is set at the start but not cleared from the player at the end. 
4. You get this situation when the AAF_Busy flag is perpetually set,  and thus MSMA thinks you are in a perpetual AAF scene, and will treat you as such. 

You can try force-starting a normal AAF scene via the interface with an NPC (any NPC, or even a solo anim might be enough) to see if that normalizes the AAF_Busy flag status, and THEN resetting the prostitution state.

 

In the next build, I will also add a debug state to force remove the AAF_Busy flag from the player, or do a force prostitution reset that bypasses the AAF_Busy check. Though if that flag is set, a lot of things will be weird.
Will also add additional checks in the shack just before starting the scene, to ensure that all actors are present in the location.

Edited March 27 by MSM_Alice

[MSM_Alice]

6 hours ago, msmfoster said:

I get that. I like the concept of resisting loss of control, just at a different time. 

 

As in, it should only trigger if the character is about to actually give into the cravings. I don't care if she muses about wanting dick, or gang bangs and so forth. 

 

I do care if she's about to offer free sex when I really need her to 'focus' and talk to her. Hence why I recommended skipping scans and other stuff and sort of making it a game challenge. She's about to offer a gang bang or to take it up the ass, trigger the sex fight sound and respond if you want to use willpower to avoid. 

 

Overall, you already check for that and it adds a rapid reaction mini-game to the affair. 

 

As it stands, I see it as a nuisance, because you are resisting what exactly when you are along walking through the wasteland or building something at Spectacle Island.

I will think about how to best have a later, additional point of resistance, specifically when you talk with the target of your out-of-control cravings.
Maybe even in that very conversation itself, where there will be a  "pay cost and snap out of it moment", "what am I doing, this is wrong".

However, this particular additional point of resistance, that is upstream of your desired moment in the flow,  and happens at the moment when the craving loss of control is activated, let's call it "the popup moment", if it is anuisance for you, leave it off in your MCM, so it does not trouble you anymore as you are walking through Spectacle Island, or ever again.

Edited March 27 by MSM_Alice

[msmfoster]

4 hours ago, MSM_Alice said:

I will think about how to best have a later, additional point of resistance, specifically when you talk with the target of your out-of-control cravings.
Maybe even in that very conversation itself, where there will be a  "pay cost and snap out of it moment", "what am I doing, this is wrong".

However, this particular additional point of resistance, that is upstream of your desired moment in the flow,  and happens at the moment when the craving loss of control is activated, let's call it "the popup moment", if it is anuisance for you, leave it off in your MCM, so it does not trouble you anymore as you are walking through Spectacle Island, or ever again.

That's fair. Thank you for considering it. 

[Nea_Bessy]

6 hours ago, MSM_Alice said:

In the next build, I will also add a debug state to force remove the AAF_Busy flag from the player, or do a force prostitution reset that bypasses the AAF_Busy check. 

 

I look forward to, 😀

 

Is there any console command that would allow you to forcibly reset this flag?

[MSM_Alice]

55 minutes ago, Nea_Bessy said:

 

I look forward to, 😀

 

Is there any console command that would allow you to forcibly reset this flag?

Unfortunately, no.
Also reseting this flag alone might be a temproary band-aid, but is noguarantee that other things haven't remained set.

 

It would be best if we understood what the triggering factor is for
 

Quote

Sexfight/Charm/Prostitution button, the popup does not appear, the music starts playing and I am dragged into the sex room, I am alone there.

That should never happen.
Curious about what is the context for that to occur.
Were you pointing at an actual NPC?
What's the deal there?

Do you have UI mods that might block popups from appearing?

Is there a way to replicate that?
Can you provide a video or a papyrus log with traces and debug info?

Edited March 27 by MSM_Alice

[Nea_Bessy]

47 minutes ago, MSM_Alice said:

К сожалению, нет.
Кроме того, сброс этого флага сам по себе может быть временной мерой, но не гарантирует, что другие настройки не сохранятся.

 

Было бы лучше, если бы мы поняли, в чем причина сбоя
 

Такого не должно было случиться.
Интересно, в каком контексте это произошло.
Вы показывали на реального неигрового персонажа?
В чем дело?

Есть ли у вас моды для пользовательского интерфейса, которые могут блокировать появление всплывающих окон?

Можно ли как-то это воспроизвести?
Можете ли вы предоставить видео или лог papyrus с трассировкой и отладочной информацией?

 

 

I usually notice this when a lot of time has passed since the last time I used Charm\Prostitution. And usually after that I used AAF, which was launched from other mods. It's just that at some point I press button 1 and either nothing happens at all, or I'm transported to a mess. So I can't say exactly when the crash occurred.

 

Now I try to check before each save whether button 1 is working, But sometimes I forget about it, as it happened now. I had to go through the old saves and look for when it was still working, This time it turned out to be a long time ago. About 3 hours ago.

 

I am very sorry for the loss of what has been done during this time.

[Nea_Bessy]

By the way, now other mods - SEU, RSE and via Home are launched without problems. And button 1 doesn't work. I'm flying straight to Bardel

[Nea_Bessy]

But now again, I'm sending you two saves. In one case, the button works. In the other case, no, it took about 11 minutes between them. There was no AAF launch. It was just a hike from Cambridge to Bunker Hill. A shootout with ghouls. That's all.

saves.7z

Edited March 27 by Nea_Bessy