Sanguine Debauchery (SD+) (January 2025)

[DeepBlueFrog]

That looks really awesome. It's always been my desire to add as much variety to the defeat scenarios as possible and SD is definitely a great and highly complex addition. I'm in the process of testing my own plugin addon but I plan on trying SD+ as soon as I can. I had a look at the code though and I'm pretty sure it works well, though it uses an overabundance of scripts which could have been avoided by using the QuestStart() overload in the trigger scripts (which is something that had been suggested by Xaz and it was a stroke of genius because it simplified so many things). In any case, I'll add it to the list of known mods using DA.

 

Something I saw often is with regard to compatibility between DA (and hence any mod that use DA) and other mods that offer similar alternative to death. In particular, I've had a look at Defeat and after a quick inspection of the main code, I'm led to believe that it would be a fairly simple matter to write a compatibility patch for Defeat to work as a general scenario of DA. Not because Defeat is a simple thing, in fact it's an intricate piece of art, but because all the relevant bits seem to be so neatly packed in the player reference alias script that it would be simple to produce an alternate script and a DA trigger. Such scenario could be set to trigger 50% of the time so that it can to allow other DA scenario, and SD ones now, to trigger every now and then. This would be the best outcome I can foresee since it would add a whole new level of diversity, which was always my intention when I designed DA. I might get around to it.

 

Congratulation on your updated release Skyrimll. I know for a fact how difficult such nonlinear quest design is. Unlike normal quests, here, anything can happen anywhere to anyone at anytime (within constraints)... it's maddening!

 

Thanks.

 

Initially, I wanted to have a soft dependency and use QuestStart( ). I spent some time with Prison Overhaul as an example but I could not get the quests to trigger properly.

 

Eventually, I made DA a hard dependency with the master file so that I could open your quests and mine side by side and get them properly configured. Only then it started working.

 

I also spent time trying to catch the final death and route the PC to sanguine's Dreamworld instead but the best I can get is a teleport to Dreamworld and death on arrival. It seems that, unless the final death becomes configurable like a radiant quest, once DA triggers the death sequence there is no way to hijack it and replace it by my own scenario.

[permidion]

is SDPlus20Addons really necessary? I am getting overwrite notice when installing it:

 

"Data\SDpatch - frostfall.bsa" has already been installed by "SDPlus20"

"Data\SDpatch - dragonborn.bsa" has already been installed by "SDPlus20"

"Data\SDpatch - dawnguard.bsa" has already been installed by "SDPlus20"

"Data\SDpatch - frostfall.bsa" has already been installed by "SDPlus20"

"Data\SDpatch - dragonborn.esp" has already been installed by "SDPlus20"

"Data\SDpatch - dawnguard.esp" has already been installed by "SDPlus20"

[Lord Ariakas]

Ok I give up then.

SD uninstalled.

 

[DeepBlueFrog]

is SDPlus20Addons really necessary? I am getting overwrite notice when installing it:

 

"Data\SDpatch - frostfall.bsa" has already been installed by "SDPlus20"

"Data\SDpatch - dragonborn.bsa" has already been installed by "SDPlus20"

"Data\SDpatch - dawnguard.bsa" has already been installed by "SDPlus20"

"Data\SDpatch - frostfall.bsa" has already been installed by "SDPlus20"

"Data\SDpatch - dragonborn.esp" has already been installed by "SDPlus20"

"Data\SDpatch - dawnguard.esp" has already been installed by "SDPlus20"

 

The add-ons were included by mistake in the main SDplus20 archive.

Only install and activate them if you have the corresponding mods.

 

Edit: What I meant is that they should be installed if you need them.

 

If you want to get rid of that warning, reinstall the files from the updated SDPlus20 (uploaded today) and then, install the files for the add-ons.

[DeepBlueFrog]

Ok I give up then.

SD uninstalled.

 

Sorry I couldn't help.. I don't use OBIS and I am already maxed out in my load order, so I couldn't test your issues with OBIS NPCs (I have to make hard choices now between mods I really want to have).

[blindmankind]

In general, these three mods (DA, Defeat and Submit) are trying to do the same thing.

You have to expect some work to make them coexist (or you will have to make a choice of which one you want to keep).

 

i want to keep sd+, submit and defeat - and that why i do not understand, why it require DA

im sad, no sd+ anymore

 

[Min]

Had a bit of time to play with this today: Works great, didn't encounter much in the way of issues. I'm enjoying the DA integration quite a bit. I think adding DA is probably one of the best things you could have done for this mod.

 

One suggestion: 

Make the surrender key not fire while I'm typing in console, or using SkyUI's search function:

if (!UI.IsMenuOpen("Console") && !UI.IsMenuOpen("InventoryMenu") && !UI.IsMenuOpen("GiftMenu") && !UI.IsMenuOpen("ContainerMenu"))
    ShowSurrenderMenu()
EndIf

http://www.creationkit.com/IsMenuOpen_-_UI

http://www.creationkit.com/UI_Script#Valid_Menu_Names

[DeepBlueFrog]

 

In general, these three mods (DA, Defeat and Submit) are trying to do the same thing.

You have to expect some work to make them coexist (or you will have to make a choice of which one you want to keep).

 

i want to keep sd+, submit and defeat - and that why i do not understand, why it require DA

im sad, no sd+ anymore

 

 

 

DA is required to allow me to add more scenarios for enslavement later.

 

SD+ version 1.16 had a lot of issues with the enslavement sequence, shutting down combat, magic attacks and so on. 

 

I should also add that SD+ 1.16, Submit and Defeat was never a working mix either.

[DeepBlueFrog]

Had a bit of time to play with this today: Works great, didn't encounter much in the way of issues. I'm enjoying the DA integration quite a bit. I think adding DA is probably one of the best things you could have done for this mod.

 

One suggestion: 

Make the surrender key not fire while I'm typing in console, or using SkyUI's search function:

if (!UI.IsMenuOpen("Console") && !UI.IsMenuOpen("InventoryMenu") && !UI.IsMenuOpen("GiftMenu") && !UI.IsMenuOpen("ContainerMenu"))
    ShowSurrenderMenu()
EndIf

http://www.creationkit.com/IsMenuOpen_-_UI

http://www.creationkit.com/UI_Script#Valid_Menu_Names

 

Thanks!

 

I was wondering about that.

 

I added it to the code already.

[Daemones]

I had no issues installing DA and the new SD. Thanks!

 

But like the other person on the last page said, I'm unable to surrender. I get the same message indicating after choosing to submit to the aggressor, that I still have life left in me.

[DeepBlueFrog]

I had no issues installing DA and the new SD. Thanks!

 

But like the other person on the last page said, I'm unable to surrender. I get the same message indicating after choosing to submit to the aggressor, that I still have life left in me.

 

Maybe this is a communication problem on my part.

 

The surrender key does not allow you to instantly surrender to your aggressor (not yet at least). Use it as a way to get unstuck in the middle of combat.

 

DA is still in charge of deciding when enslavement actually happens.

 

Once I get a better handle of the internal ways to call DA scenarios, maybe I will get to the point where you can get enslaved on demand and turn it really into a surrender/submt key.

 

I will think about how to rename that option to avoid more confusion.

[Daemones]

Ahh I understand. Nah it's not your fault for the confusion, just my ignorance

 

Nevertheless the update is working great and definitely better than the previous versions. I'll be sure to let you know if I find any bugs!

[GrayElephant]

I use MO. It doesn't really matter whether you install the new version and then remove the old, or vice versa. Just avoid running skyrim in the midst of the process. Install and uninstall in one fell swoop, run FINS generator, and go to town.

 

For all 9 betas, I installed the new one, disabled the old ones, and went right back to testing.

 

For those of you getting the footfall spam in your papyrus log, make sure the SDfrostfall.esp is disabled in your load order. It's on by default.

 

Skyrimll- where is the f rostfall mortality option found in the menu? I looked for it, but couldn't find it. Metaton was running f rostfall as well as OBIS. There might have been a double conflict there.

[DeepBlueFrog]

I use MO. It doesn't really matter whether you install the new version and then remove the old, or vice versa. Just avoid running skyrim in the midst of the process. Install and uninstall in one fell swoop, run FINS generator, and go to town.

 

For all 9 betas, I installed the new one, disabled the old ones, and went right back to testing.

 

For those of you getting the footfall spam in your papyrus log, make sure the SDfrostfall.esp is disabled in your load order. It's on by default.

 

Skyrimll- where is the f rostfall mortality option found in the menu? I looked for it, but couldn't find it. Metaton was running f rostfall as well as OBIS. There might have been a double conflict there.

 

It's under SD menu -> Add ons, right below the SD patch - frostfall.esp line.

[Skyrimfloo]

Wouldn't it be possible to patch SD+ with Submit and/or Defeat, so that the events happen randomly?

 

I didn't test this mod in a very long time, so excuse me if I'm asking about something that happens already. I use Defeat AND submit, the first one for the consensual dialogue options and manual surrender with humans/sentient creatures, and the second one for automatic rape from anything.

 

I like the idea of being enslaved and other death alternative options, but for me the best would be that they worked on a chance basis, so in some encounters you'd end raped, some would get you enslaved and some would get you simply mugged. As I said, I don't know if SD+ already has these scenarios, but if it doesn't, it would be nice.

[Pinute]

I've been waiting a Long time for SD to be integrated into a general death alternative - getting enslaved every damned time was annoying. Thanks a lot for picking this up. It was my first LL mod and I've been a slave of it ever since

[DeepBlueFrog]

Wouldn't it be possible to patch SD+ with Submit and/or Defeat, so that the events happen randomly?

 

I didn't test this mod in a very long time, so excuse me if I'm asking about something that happens already. I use Defeat AND submit, the first one for the consensual dialogue options and manual surrender with humans/sentient creatures, and the second one for automatic rape from anything.

 

I like the idea of being enslaved and other death alternative options, but for me the best would be that they worked on a chance basis, so in some encounters you'd end raped, some would get you enslaved and some would get you simply mugged. As I said, I don't know if SD+ already has these scenarios, but if it doesn't, it would be nice.

 

It should be possible to create patches that would wrap triggers for Defeat or Submit into quests managed by DA.

That way, DA could decide which mod would 'win' randomly.

 

The problem is that writing these patchs will take knowledge of the corresponding mods, time to test and maybe code changes on the side of the mods themselves to make it possible.

 

This is not going to be done overnight

[pinky6225]

Started a new game and everything works although it took being beaten on in bleed out state quite a while for it to trigger (i'd set to 90% in the MCM) but eventually got enslaved by this dude

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tried moving him to dragons bridge as it was close by and more stuff to do but got killed on the bridge by one of the slaver NPC's from hydrogen's slaver mod who then also enslaved me (not sure whether he enslaved me or just transferred ownership tbh as i didnt see him attack me after killing the mage dude) managed to move him to the inn as well which was useful as i can use RP tweaked there.

 

 

 

 

 

 

An option to set the owner home/sandbox target would be handy for the owners you can move to more populated locations

[Debaster]

Just installed the new version, will test out later tonight. For now all I can see is Zaz animations is set to false, despite the fact that I have it installed, but I'll see if it work fine later. Thanks you for the hard work

[GrayElephant]

@ Buffmutti. You're being your own worst enemy, in this case. I went out of my way to articulate all of the various SD & DA variables in the manual. I knew as soon as I downloaded DA that it would be daunting to use at first, so I offered to write the manual to alleviate some of the confusion.

 

Take a few minutes to read it. You confirmed that you hadn't touched the manual by complaining in your follow up post that you couldn't figure out what the settings did from the tooltips in the MCM Menu. That's the point of the manual.

 

If you've got the time to write a multi-paragraph post bitching about how the mod is a PITA now, you've got the time to read a couple of pages. "Your mod sucks because I can't be arsed to do a little reading" is a horseshit argument.

 

Please excuse my grumpiness. This mod is a 150mph dragster that runs on olive oil and nail polish remover. If the guy who built it in his garage tells you to read the instructions before you hit the freeway, for God's sake read the instructions!

 

And if you think I'm just grumpy cause I was the one who wrote the manual, that's not it at all. I've grown close to this mod in the process of figuring out its guts in order to better explain them. The mod does ridiculously complex things, and does most of the work behind the scenes. It's a moderate miracle it can even work at all with the infinite variety of other mods any given player might be running. Skyrimll's talent along these lines can't be overstated. The mod can work if you invest a little energy into working with it.

 

/skyrimll cheerleading.

 

On another note...the inclusion of Defeat as a recommended mod was 99% my call. I slid that into the documentation of my own volition. SD 2.0 has removed sex scenes from the end of combat for the sake of functionality. If you want combat sex like 1.16 and previous, or if you want a way to do unarmed takedowns while enslaved, you'll need Defeat or Submit. The ONLY reason I chose to recommend Defeat over Submit is because of the minimum limit setting that Defeat offers, which allows for segregation between combat sex and death events. I tested Defeat's player-as-victim settings alongside SD pretty heavily in order to write the manual entry on getting the two to play nice. I wasn't intending to make it seem as though Defeat was superior to Submit, nor that SD would feel incomplete without Defeat. Just that, between the two, Defeat seems more likely to be compatible. The three mods really are fighting for the same turf in game.

[BralorMarr]

 

That looks really awesome. It's always been my desire to add as much variety to the defeat scenarios as possible and SD is definitely a great and highly complex addition. I'm in the process of testing my own plugin addon but I plan on trying SD+ as soon as I can. I had a look at the code though and I'm pretty sure it works well, though it uses an overabundance of scripts which could have been avoided by using the QuestStart() overload in the trigger scripts (which is something that had been suggested by Xaz and it was a stroke of genius because it simplified so many things). In any case, I'll add it to the list of known mods using DA.

 

Something I saw often is with regard to compatibility between DA (and hence any mod that use DA) and other mods that offer similar alternative to death. In particular, I've had a look at Defeat and after a quick inspection of the main code, I'm led to believe that it would be a fairly simple matter to write a compatibility patch for Defeat to work as a general scenario of DA. Not because Defeat is a simple thing, in fact it's an intricate piece of art, but because all the relevant bits seem to be so neatly packed in the player reference alias script that it would be simple to produce an alternate script and a DA trigger. Such scenario could be set to trigger 50% of the time so that it can to allow other DA scenario, and SD ones now, to trigger every now and then. This would be the best outcome I can foresee since it would add a whole new level of diversity, which was always my intention when I designed DA. I might get around to it.

 

Congratulation on your updated release Skyrimll. I know for a fact how difficult such nonlinear quest design is. Unlike normal quests, here, anything can happen anywhere to anyone at anytime (within constraints)... it's maddening!

 

Thanks.

 

Initially, I wanted to have a soft dependency and use QuestStart( ). I spent some time with Prison Overhaul as an example but I could not get the quests to trigger properly.

 

Eventually, I made DA a hard dependency with the master file so that I could open your quests and mine side by side and get them properly configured. Only then it started working.

 

I also spent time trying to catch the final death and route the PC to sanguine's Dreamworld instead but the best I can get is a teleport to Dreamworld and death on arrival. It seems that, unless the final death becomes configurable like a radiant quest, once DA triggers the death sequence there is no way to hijack it and replace it by my own scenario.

 

 

 

There will be a option and event sent when the "final death" death occur (i.e. when no alternative is selected) in the next update of DA but there won't be support for multi scenario like for OnDefeat events. I'll just leave it as something open ended.

 

By the way, in answer to a previous question: if the priority of the SD events is set to a higher value than that of any other event (in the DA config menu) AND if the condition for the quest to trigger is met, then the SD event will always trigger before any other events. If the priority is equal to another that could have triggered, then it will be random. If priority for an event is higher and it doesn't trigger, it means that the condition for it to trigger wasn't satisfied, or that the event failed to start (which can happen for radiant quests that need to fill specific aliases with object or location in the world).

[threeddd33]

 

Ok I give up then.

SD uninstalled.

 

Sorry I couldn't help.. I don't use OBIS and I am already maxed out in my load order, so I couldn't test your issues with OBIS NPCs (I have to make hard choices now between mods I really want to have).

 

I use OBIS and everything seems fine for me.

 

[onikujo]

So, when I get knocked down and enslaved, I go ragdoll... but when I wake up, I don't unragdoll. I sit there in whatever lazy pile of Breton I am...

[Guest]

The manual mentions that the Owner will follow your character if you go outside. Is this "following" in the same sense as in 1.16, where the Owner would try to execute his own AI package while running to you if you get out of range? This was quite annoying because it would often mean that he would leave houses I wanted to stay in or walk the opposite way down a long road. 

[DeepBlueFrog]

So, when I get knocked down and enslaved, I go ragdoll... but when I wake up, I don't unragdoll. I sit there in whatever lazy pile of Breton I am...

 

Use only the Bleedout effect in DA.. not Ragdoll.

 

The manual mentions that the Owner will follow your character if you go outside. Is this "following" in the same sense as in 1.16, where the Owner would try to execute his own AI package while running to you if you get out of range? This was quite annoying because it would often mean that he would leave houses I wanted to stay in or walk the opposite way down a long road. 

 

That part is still the same.

 

Once I am done answering questions about DA, I will start working on the next phase of rewrite which will include changing the mechanics of 'master following' eventually.