Rape in the Lovers series is not really immersive (Maybe a new project)

October 12, 2011

I like the idea' date=' but it would mean reconsidering spells and potions as well. No sense making fatigue difficult to acquire and then allow an end-around using a spell or potion.

If we can do that cleanly, I think your concept of moving away from health toward fatigue is an excellent idea, and is intuitively superior in terms of immersion.

A character out of energy is an easy kill no matter their nominal health. Health should go down after battles, but not that greatly; fatigue loss one one side ort he other would come first in most cases. Archery might be the exception.

[/quote']

I guess so. We would have to rebalance almost all potions in the game. We could also make them more expensive or rarer to find (same with spells).

What if we just changed the amount of fatigue people have? The more fatigue, the less is lost (in percentage) to one's total fatigue. Potions would not need rebalancing, they'd stay the same.

I doubt it would need to really be created. Console commands can change fatigue and mods like "Realistic Fatigue" add some of the effects that I mentioned. We would just need to experiment to find the right amount to add and add other effects for lovers!

The body is a soft, fleshy thing, easily punctured by sharp swords and easily mashed by warhammers; but a person's energy can inflict much more blows with a weapon than its own body can take.

October 12, 2011

Just blue-skying here (and still not convinced this is a feasible way to go)' date=' what if we changed the combat dynamic from being one that drains the health bar per hit (depending on weapon and skill) to one that inflicts wounds of various types and severity depending on weapon and skill? Wounds would, in this bluesky, be spells that would act like curses.

A blade or arrow would mostly inflict wounds like "flesh wound: -5 health, damage fatigue 10" and "bleeding wound: -10 health , damage fatigue 5 per second until cured."

Blunt weapons would do less health damage but more fatigue damage: "ooof! -2 health, damage fatigue 10" and "numbing blow: damage fatigue 5 per turn until cured."

"Until cured" wounds would obviously be something one couldn't treat with hostiles around (or, at least, couldn't be treated without risk since the player perhaps would have to yield if attacked while treating wounds). Wounds and oofs would be automatically cured starting when combat ends and running for perhaps a minute of real time (i.e they would disappear one by one in some random order, but all would be gone in a minute of gamer-time). You'd want some delay to avoid having players just duck around a corner and go into sneak mode, get out of combat for a few seconds, and come back to full strength.

Pretty much every wound would take out a bit of health, but have more impact on fatigue. By making these "damage fatigue" we make it impossible to overcome fatigue loss through potions or spells (except maybe dispell; I'd have to look at that). If fatigue reaches zero, the actor becomes unconcious until the battle is over and his/her fate decided.

Thoughts? Too complex/different/difficult to implement?

[/quote']

It's a great idea, I'm just concerned that we'd need to make each weapon enchanted with certain effects. I'm not much of a modder, but this doesn't sound impossible, although I'm sure it's not a simple task.

grumbler · October 12, 2011

It's a great idea' date=' I'm just concerned that we'd need to make each weapon enchanted with certain effects. I'm not much of a modder, but this doesn't sound impossible, although I'm sure it's not a simple task. [/quote']

Enchantments might prove to be a show-stopper, for sure.

In any case, I don't think we need to implement this energy concept in the proof-of-concept. The POC can use use the current health loss model and induce unconsciousness (rather than death) as a stopgap.

As a side note, if we say that a character made unconscious as a result of combat stays unconscious until the combat's end, that will put a real premium on good companions, who could fight on and maybe win the melee after the PC is knocked out (and thus would have lost the battle if alone).

October 13, 2011

It's a great idea' date=' I'm just concerned that we'd need to make each weapon enchanted with certain effects. I'm not much of a modder, but this doesn't sound impossible, although I'm sure it's not a simple task. [/quote']

Enchantments might prove to be a show-stopper, for sure.

In any case, I don't think we need to implement this energy concept in the proof-of-concept. The POC can use use the current health loss model and induce unconsciousness (rather than death) as a stopgap.

As a side note, if we say that a character made unconscious as a result of combat stays unconscious until the combat's end, that will put a real premium on good companions, who could fight on and maybe win the melee after the PC is knocked out (and thus would have lost the battle if alone).

So, should we make it so that the PC goes unconscious after losing too much health or too much energy? Or both?

I like the companion idea and the unconsciousness-until-combat ends idea.

What do you make of my fatigue idea? Is giving everyone more fatigue a good solution?

dumit · October 13, 2011

my first idea was more like a wrestling mod... but that was waaaaaaayyyyyy beyond anything I am capable of doing at the moment. and right now I'm more worried that everyone will lose interest in oblivion once skyrim is out.

grumbler · October 13, 2011

So' date=' should we make it so that the PC goes unconscious after losing too much health or too much energy? Or both?[/quote']

In the proof-of-concept stage, I think we should just do it after health is lost. We don't want to have too many balls in the air at once.

I like the companion idea and the unconsciousness-until-combat ends idea.
What do you make of my fatigue idea? Is giving everyone more fatigue a good solution?

I like the fatigue-based-combat concept a lot. I think we should shelve changes to combat until we have a workable framework for enslavement and the consequences, though. We don't want to have to track too many sources of problems at once.

One issue that concerns me with the "PC unconscious until combat ends" is the stupidity of the AI for NPCs. With vanilla AI, two NPCs could be on opposite sides of a very short wall, and will run towards one another for hours, never deviating those two steps to the left or right that would allow them to actually meet. Such combats would never end. FO3 AI avoids this by going into seek mode. Is there an Oblivion equivalent? If not, we need to have some kind of timer so that combat ends in some fashion after X seconds without any character taking damage.

grumbler · October 13, 2011

my first idea was more like a wrestling mod... but that was waaaaaaayyyyyy beyond anything I am capable of doing at the moment. and right now I'm more worried that everyone will lose interest in oblivion once skyrim is out.

People will certainly briefly lose interest in Oblivion when Skyrim comes out (I will!) but then there will be the usual lull between vanilla play and the arrival of decent mods.

October 13, 2011

my first idea was more like a wrestling mod... but that was waaaaaaayyyyyy beyond anything I am capable of doing at the moment. and right now I'm more worried that everyone will lose interest in oblivion once skyrim is out.

It's possible that there won't be an equivalent to lovers for skyrim for years. I'm positive that people will still play and update lovers. Don't worry.

grumbler · October 15, 2011

Looking around for some examples of what we have discussed for the enslavement consequence of rape, I found a Fallout New Vegas mod called "Sexout Sewer Slave" which does a lot of the things we might want to see in a Lovers mod - at least, in the case where the PC is enslaved as a sex slave. FONV is a much more "adult" game than Oblvion, of course, so it has more in-game locations where sex slavery fits in with the lore. For Oblivion, we would need to create some equivalent places. Still, Sewer Slave provides some inspiration and a conceptual jumping-off place for the slavery side of our concept.

I have been experimenting with the concept that unconsciousness doesn't end until combat ends. The problem is making the enemies non-hostile when the PC is unconscious, so combat does end. I am looking at adding a new faction that is non-hostile to all other factions, but that also requires that the uncooncious character also be temporarily removed from all factions that are hostile to those enemies. Clearly, those factions should be re-added when the character resumes normal status (if enslaved, this would be after being freed, so that slaves would not be hostile to any factions either), but I am not sure how to "store" the factions being removed so that they can be re-added later.

Any ideas?

Xzios · October 31, 2011

I Agree its a little funny when they smile after stripping their clothes and such. I agree the rape category needs some work.

Thelargir · November 1, 2011

I have read this topic and I agree with the author.

So I like the the idea that remplace death by rape. But it's to light.

You lose' date=' you are raped instead of dead and you resurect in the same place. It's good but...

I have a idea (I don t know if this thing exist) to developpe the lose.

If you lose a fight you are raped instead of dead but you resurect in a specific place (like prison) with chains.

- If guards kill you you ressurect nude in the near cities prison.

- If Bandits kill you you resurect nude in a random lair

- If a Draera kill you you resurect nude in a random oblivion lair

Your character can be slave, simply prisoner, be raped a lot. All her equipement are in a Chest at the end of this specifique dungeon.

To escape your character must be kill guardian, or accompish a specific thing (Be the slave for the bandit leader, chain that can be remove after resolve a quest). The character can be curse like "cursed armor mod" And must accomplis a quest to be free.

In the prison/lair/dungeon the character can have specific interaction with torture machines. I think about the "Chain Beast" mod or some poser mode like "chain_it".

What do you think about this ?

[i']PS sorry for my English I m French[/i]

Just browsing this topic, but this is a great idea!

November 2, 2011

I have read this topic and I agree with the author.

So I like the the idea that remplace death by rape. But it's to light.

You lose' date=' you are raped instead of dead and you resurect in the same place. It's good but...

I have a idea (I don t know if this thing exist) to developpe the lose.

If you lose a fight you are raped instead of dead but you resurect in a specific place (like prison) with chains.

- If guards kill you you ressurect nude in the near cities prison.

- If Bandits kill you you resurect nude in a random lair

- If a Draera kill you you resurect nude in a random oblivion lair

Your character can be slave, simply prisoner, be raped a lot. All her equipement are in a Chest at the end of this specifique dungeon.

To escape your character must be kill guardian, or accompish a specific thing (Be the slave for the bandit leader, chain that can be remove after resolve a quest). The character can be curse like "cursed armor mod" And must accomplis a quest to be free.

In the prison/lair/dungeon the character can have specific interaction with torture machines. I think about the "Chain Beast" mod or some poser mode like "chain_it".

What do you think about this ?

[i']PS sorry for my English I m French[/i]

Just browsing this topic, but this is a great idea!

Indeed it is an awesome idea, one that has been mentioned many times before. Welcome aboard the wait train!

Once I get a new computer, I'll begin learning. When I understand the modding processes and such, this will be my first lovers related project.

umbratotalus · December 4, 2011

everything I have read in this thread has revolved around the PC being female. What happens for those of us who play male characters, but like to see/want to have something other than enemies to worry about, do to with rape, in this sense, the slavery when you're captured, the rape after a battle. All of the things you have said that will happen in this alleged mod that is being worked on is for a female PC. I myself am unsure about where I stand, but I do like to see males being rape/sexed by males, and females by females etc., so I just want to see whether or not male on male is a possibility, and female on female slavery etc., for those who would prefer it...

Jay1646 · December 4, 2011

so in 17 pages has anything been accomplished?

Illuminati · December 4, 2011

I'm really liking the idea of replacing death completely with getting raped, having some money taken, and you spawn at the nearest prison/cave/camp buck naked. Then maybe have some sort of shame animation with your character covering her/his private parts. From there you can either carry out your prison sentence/get raped repeatedly until they've had enough or you can somehow escape by picking the prison door lock or during the night while the bandits are asleep.

December 4, 2011

so in 17 pages has anything been accomplished?

Depends how you look at it. Sure, no actual plugins have been made, but we've pooled in our ideas and when the time comes, we'll possibly mod skyrim when lovers is brought to TES 5.

LoversLab=very few modders + many people with ideas + lurkers

DemonKnightRaziel · December 9, 2011

Lotta good ideas here, though it seems much of the rape consequence talk is geared towards weak non-combat characters. What about the strong, warrior types, hardened fighters; you wouldn't see them bawling their eyes out so much as promising to rip your eyes/balls out, ect.

Like in NWN Arandie, group of bandits rape the pc, then drunkenly pass out, unaware that the girl is a drow-trained magical assassin(they never wake up again).

Or D-Laby on the LoK forums; rape scenes progress based on choices(submit, struggle, enjoy) similar to GrrlPower, both of which also have options to... severely injure the raper(teeth, ect.).

Have Something like a combo of LoversRapeStruggle and that RapeEscape thing; give the pc oppurtunities to struggle During the rape too, and if successful(say she frees a hand or pulls a hidden dagger/needle/something out of somewhere like her hair, ect. and shoves it somewhere painful) the rape is stopped and the raper takes damage.

HentaiGnome · December 9, 2011

LoversLab=very few modders + many people with ideas + lurkers

So true. I would like to learn how to mod and become a regular at it but the problem I have is that most of the tutorials out there are totally outdated. Secondly, they tend to generalize; I'd be lucky if they have working images to show me exactly what changes need to be made. And last but not least, my personal issue is that I just don't have enough time. But honestly, I've devoted a lot of time to a bunch of random time-wasters in the past so if I'm really passionate about something and I UNDERSTAND what I'm doing then I don't mind "wasting" time with modding projects.

I just hope Skyrim and the supposed TES 5 will be much more intuitive and user-friendly...

December 9, 2011

LoversLab=very few modders + many people with ideas + lurkers

So true. I would like to learn how to mod and become a regular at it but the problem I have is that most of the tutorials out there are totally outdated. Secondly' date=' they tend to generalize; I'd be lucky if they have working images to show me exactly what changes need to be made. And last but not least, my personal issue is that I just don't have enough time. But honestly, I've devoted a lot of time to a bunch of random time-wasters in the past so if I'm really passionate about something and I UNDERSTAND what I'm doing then I don't mind "wasting" time with modding projects.

I just hope Skyrim and the supposed TES 5 will be much more intuitive and user-friendly...

[/quote']

The modding guru's here at LL really need to make a set of tutorials so that modding newbs and novices can learn how to mod properly. Can you imagine how much more could be done if every active person on LL was a modder and all of us collectively working on the same mods? Take CLS for example, they have a huge team filled with excellent modders and they've made one of the absolute best quest mods I've ever played (not just cause of the pr0nz). It's amazing, all of these ideas that we have could become realities if we just stepped up and learned how to mod. With 50+ modders working on the same projects with the same interests, nobody here can imagine of the possibilities!

I swear, when I get a new computer (so that I can actually play oblivion again) I'm going to try and dedicate some time into modding, and hopefully I (and others) will be able to convince others to join in. I'm hoping I'll buy the computer before 2012.

PLEASE TAKE NOTE VETERAN MODDERS OF LL! Many of us don't mod simply because we are intimidated, it seems like too much of a challenge. If you guys team up and help us, then we'd gladly help you in return. If all of us learns how to mod, then individually we won't have to learn so much and none of us feels alone and unappreciated. I don't want LoversLab to turn into the home of the ideas-that-never-get-made, I want LoversLab to be the site where we take pride in making amazing adult (and non-adult) mods. Please, I beg you guys!

HentaiGnome · December 9, 2011

I agree. CLS is definitely a good example of what a team of modders could do. And as for those hard-to-find clothes? Bah! If most of us knew how to mod, we could easily replicate them, or hell, even make better versions!

I can only hope that with the release of Skyrim there are are some new tutorial guides in the works. I'll try to keep an eye out for them as they'll most likely be on TESNexus or on the official TES 5 CS site.

Phelps1247 · December 9, 2011

Well then they'd have to set up elaborate kidnappings or traps or both. The weak thing comes from being at low HP I believe. Even the strong ones can get down there.

Though that could be an intresting mod. Base it on levels instead of just HP. Low level characters just get raped with low HP and as they progress,perhaps defeating the rapers during an attempt at some point,the way they attempt it changes. All sorts of traps,devices and tricks to use instead.

zxc018299 · December 9, 2011

Although you have a point there, but it is not so easy.

I wanted to play the MOD you say.But these are not easy to achieve.

Alex Jacobson · December 19, 2011

other problem : lovers Rape and TamagoClub.....

woman rape a man ; man pulls out and ejakulatet ' date=' ok , but : man got sperm from woman

8)

[/quote']

I wonder if anyone tried to fix this one. I see a lot of scripts in Lovers/Tamago, but I can't find which one is responsible for this.

maou · December 19, 2011

other problem : lovers Rape and TamagoClub.....

woman rape a man ; man pulls out and ejakulatet ' date=' ok , but : man got sperm from woman

8)

[/quote']

I wonder if anyone tried to fix this one. I see a lot of scripts in Lovers/Tamago, but I can't find which one is responsible for this.

The script is in LoversTamagoClub. I made a fix for this some time ago:
scn a3ltcOnCallbackEjaculation

short trg
ref o
ref d
short flg

short i

ref r

Begin Function { trg o d flg }
if flg == 0
	return
endif
if a3ltc.KokumaroMilk || a3ltc.AllowAnal
	;Lovers側の膣内射精判定の内部処理が変わった場合はこのブロックの処理も変更が必要になるかもしれません
	let r := a3ltc.rLoversPkrGetMotionParamBySPosIndex
	if GetSourceModIndex r != -1
		set i to o.GetItemCount xLoversSPosM
		let i := Call r i 12
		if eval(i & 1) == 0
			return
		endif
	endif
	if o.GetItemCount xLoversPkrSPosGroupM == 4 || o.GetItemCount xLoversPkrContraception || d.GetItemCount xLoversPkrContraception || (o.GetIsSex Female && (GxLoversPkrFutanari == 0 || a3ltc.KokumaroMilk == 0)) || (d.GetIsSex Female == 0 && d.GetItemCount a4tcWomb == 0 && a3ltc.AllowAnal == 0)
		return
	endif
	if o.GetIsSex Female || d.GetIsSex Female == 0
		o.AddItemNS xLoversPkrCountSperm 1
		d.AddItemNS xLoversPkrCountSpermV 1
		if o == player
			d.AddItemNS xLoversPkrCountPSpermV 1
		endif
		if d == player
			o.AddItemNS xLoversPkrCountPSperm 1
		endif
	endif
; 2011/07/24: Added
; ---------------------------------------
	o.Call a4tccEjaculate d 1
; ---------------------------------------
else
; 2011/07/24: Prevent males getting sperm from females
; ----------------------------------------------------
;		if 0 == Call xLoversCmnIsEjaculationToVagina o d
;			return
; ------
	if d == Call xLoversCmnIsEjaculationToVagina o d
		o.Call a4tccEjaculate d 1
	elseif o == Call xLoversCmnIsEjaculationToVagina o d
		d.Call a4tccEjaculate o 1
; ----------------------------------------------------
	endif
endif
; 2011/07/24: Handle separately. See changes above.
; ------------------------------------------
;	o.Call a4tccEjaculate d 1
; ------------------------------------------
End
This only affects the "normal" xLovers check.

If you have KokumaroMilk (for futanari) or AllowAnal enabled the other code branch is used.

Works well enough for normal reverse rape like in Joburg.

Depends on xLoversCmnIsEjaculationToVagina working correctly, of course.

I think explicitly swapping male/female in TachiCat2 caused some problems in the past. Not sure if it has been fixed since then.

Note: The script is for LoversTamagoClub v1.02. If you use an earlier version the variable "AllowAnal" might not be defined.

Phelps1247 · December 26, 2011

I was hoping this would work...

Setting the character as essential.

+

Rapers,health must be below 0%.

+

Longer unconscious mod.

That way the character would have to be knocked out to be raped when she couldn't do anything about it anyway thus making it affected by levels without being a nusiance in other manners.

Problem #1: the lowest is 5%. It goes to 100% so with full it causes rape,thought maybe it'd work on the low end because there's at least been a long death camera for a while.

Problem #2: they apparently don't target unconscious characters. It can say they've been targeted before being knocked out but once down nothing happens. Only happens when they're conscious again which resulted in it making significantly less sense.

Problem #3: when the essential PC gets up and is done being raped it ENTIRELY screws up the camera. TFC won't work while she's out either. Works once she's back up but doesn't fix the camera when setting it back.

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