Angrim's Apprentice (Feb-10-2016)

[Findout]

@Findout: I'll consider it.  The main drawback is that it would probably break backward compatibility, if installed in an existing save game.

 

Thank you for considering it.   I understand, it seems best to do Angrim's Apprentice not so much as a start to finish quest but mixed into Skyrim quests so not to end up with a locked dungeon.  The not knowing and fun pushed me to keep going.     The spells I did learn were excellent.

[stobor]

Glad you enjoyed it.  It is indeed designed to be mixed in with other Skyrim quests.

[rkoelsch1]

Thanks just tested with my mage that was permenantly at 0 magicka.  She is now able to get her magicka back.  I had almost deleted her so thanks again t this fixed my issue.  love the mod.

[Findout]

Glad you enjoyed it.  It is indeed designed to be mixed in with other Skyrim quests.

 

I really did push to much.  I started over and found I'd missed a whole slew of spells! 

[Ashra XIII]

Yay for an update to one of my favorite quest mods ever! I really need to start another magey type now and give this another run through. I've completed the quest once, but didn't play much after it was done to really get a feel for the consequences.

 

I do wonder if there has been any testing done with this mod and other succubus mods like Hormones or PSQ? Seems like integrating some of this stuff could lead to wild times.

[traveller_phi]

There was a some discussion a while ago about interest in, but difficulty with integrating the succubus satiation with Aroused arousal. It is a tricky thing, especially as in my mind, a succubus should both be having a lot of sex and a high arousal (always ready for more). To this end I have come up with two possible systems to integrate the values.

 

First, have the succubus exposure go up faster than normal. Perhaps every hour that arousal is below 90, bump up the arousal 5 points and add a point to satiation. Thus after sex the succubus will charge up her power and quickly become ready for more. Then in the 90-99 arousal range let the satiation remain level, the sucubus would be at the height of her power here. But once it maxes out at 100, the succubus becomes desperate and her satiation drops. This could add some interesting dynamics to players trying to keep their succubus power high beyond fucking everything that moves. Immediately after sex the arousal will be climbing quickly, exposure being bumped up by Angrim and time rate doing its thing. Once arousal tops over 90, things depend on how timerate behaves. If arousal is still climbing, the player could hit 100 and start burning out. But if they are in a sweet spot, and timerate value starts decaying, they can drop below 90 and get a bit more boost to satiation until they have 90+ in exposure alone. But this cannot last indefinitely, so if the timerate drops too low (at perhaps 10 or 20 arousal/day) it has been too long since sex, and exposure goes up to 100 and satiation starts draining.

 

If you want to have different sex acts restore different satiation, then give arousal a boost before calculating any satiation gains from arousal increase. A succubus giving a blowjob might have her arousal set at 70 after the act, so she only gains satiation between 70-90. Receiving oral sex might leave her at 50, anal sex at 20, and vaginal sex at 0.

 

The second is simpler, just read the timerate multiplier. If it is below 20, satiation drains. Between 20 and 40, it remains steady. Above 40 and it grows. The logic here is that a high timerate multiplier means lots of recent sex, whereas a low value means infrequent or a long time since the last orgy.

 

The downside with these methods is that a succubus's power does not jump up immediately after sex, but builds for  a while after. May also want to put a minimum satiation at the completion of sex, so a starving succubus doesn't have to wait to recover. Say for example a sucubus only has only 3 satiation when she finaly is able to have sex, and we want a minimum of 7 after sex. This is a shortfall of 4 points. If we go with the above exchange rate of 5 arousal for 1 satiation, bump the satiation up to 7 and bump arousal up to 20 immediately. Could up the price, 10 arousal per point if it is decided that a starving succubus can't feed as effectively, or down it to 2.5 per point if a starving succubus can get more satiation out of sex.

 

The upside of these methods is that an effective succubus tends towards the higher end of arousal rather than the lower ends. An always hungry succubus seems more natural than an always satiated succubus. It can also lead to deeper strategies for maintaining satiation than simply having sex as often as possible, though the latter will still remain a viable strategy. Also a gang bang would not  boost her energy the same way as spacing out her meals, as sex when arousal is low would cancel out the benefit of the previous act. This makes sense from the point of view that a satiated succubus should not be able to drink deeply from a new victim.

 

Finally I would like to suggest an option to make chastity belts more compatible with succubi. A belted succubus may be able to drain energy from her partner's release, but at a reduced rate. If we like the 5 arousal to 1 satiation exchange rate, then perhaps for every 10 or 20 arousal the NPC has the succubus can gain 1 satiation point. This will allow the succubus to feed, but at a much reduced rate than an unbelted succubus, keeping the belt as a disadvantage, but not a fatal one.

 

Oh, one more idea now. There could be two flavors of succubi, perhaps depending on the details of how the quest was completed. The standard "taking" succubus that feeds off of her own release, and a "giving" succubus that feeds off her partner's release rather than her own. Perhaps she would be able to gain 1 satiation for every 5 arousal points she relieves of the NPC, and her own arousal and release do not factor in at all. Perhaps adjustments for the sex act ... 20 arousal per satiation for oral, 5 for vaginal, 10 for anal or something. This would still make chastity belts something of a nusiance for a "giving" succubus.

[stobor]

@Ashra: I don't personally use PSQ or the Hormones mod, so no testing with those.  I've looked at PSQ from time to time, but felt that having both mods with different interpretations of Succubus magic in them would be too much overlap - and for obvious reasons, I stuck with my own.  Haven't really looked at any recent version of the Hormones mod.

 

I am currently doing a playthrough with Angrim and SD+, and had the somewhat unexpected result that the Temptress turned up in Sanguine's dreamworld.  Seemed appropriate, but the extra NPCs made the animations laggy as hell, and the Temptress discorporated partway through as a result.  So I'll probably put in a check to avoid that.

 

FYI, I am finding that my new mechanism for handling plug events is not making satiation decline as rapidly as I think it should, so I probably need to make some balance tweaks to that part of the mod.

[stobor]

@traveller_phi: I am considering having satiation affected by arousal score, but I'm still reluctant to make it the central part of the calculation.  As I said in a recent post, this score is highly variable and affected by multiple other mods, which makes it a poor choice for a balancing mechanism.  There's also a tension between the Arousal mod (debuffs at high arousal) and your suggestion that Succubi be more powerful at high arousal.  But thanks for the detailed thoughts on the matter.

 

I'm also thinking about having arousal rate increase for a Succubus with low satiation (i.e. having the interaction between the two variables flow in the opposite direction).

[traveller_phi]

@stobor: As long as it helps you along in coming up with improvements, the post was a worth while effort. Taking advantage of some of my ideas, or just seeing a different perspective on things may help you come up with other ideas of your own, its all good. There is a lot of different historical lore on succubi, and lots of different ideas about sex, so anything you come up with can probably be justified fairly easily. On the flip side anything you can come up with will conflict with something somewhere.

 

Edit:

Also one thing to consider on balance, there are also a lot of mods that provide for sexual opportunities. A succubus does not need to return back to town to "recharge". There are both Defeat and Submit which can help insure a succubus is recharged at the end of combat, win or lose. Also easy enough to bring a follower or two along to snack on. Even without considering Arousal, there is a wide latitude to abuse the succubus recharge system. I would focus on making the mechanics entertaining rather than balanced, though balance should still be a consideration. But a strong balance in Skyrim is a lost cause, especially considering modded Skyrim.

[Ashra XIII]

@Ashra: I don't personally use PSQ or the Hormones mod, so no testing with those. I've looked at PSQ from time to time, but felt that having both mods with different interpretations of Succubus magic in them would be too much overlap - and for obvious reasons, I stuck with my own. Haven't really looked at any recent version of the Hormones mod.

 

I am currently doing a playthrough with Angrim and SD+, and had the somewhat unexpected result that the Temptress turned up in Sanguine's dreamworld. Seemed appropriate, but the extra NPCs made the animations laggy as hell, and the Temptress discorporated partway through as a result. So I'll probably put in a check to avoid that.

 

FYI, I am finding that my new mechanism for handling plug events is not making satiation decline as rapidly as I think it should, so I probably need to make some balance tweaks to that part of the mod.

Yeah PSQ tends to make the player rather overpowered I think, which can be cool but isn't generally how I like to play. Hormones is better, but I kinda don't like my char changing shapes and colors as much as I thought I would, so that leaves me with having another go with Angrim.

 

I will give it a go the next time I am forced to start over because some mod update breaks things again... having fun character concepts waiting in the wing is never a bad thing!

[sexyvamp]

I'm stuck.
!the following might be seen as a spoiler!


I stole the key and got the armbinders layed on but now i can't remove them because everytime an npc helps me out of the device it just gets re-equipped. And Angrim wont let me out of my restrains before i learned my lesson (but at least i learned my lesson and now know what my character must feel like). i waited at least a ingame week but still no way to escape.

[stobor]

No idea why they'd get re-equipped, that isn't this mod's doing.  Might ask in the Devious Devices integration thread.

 

However, you can always just wriggle your way free on your own - just keep hitting the 'struggle' option (tab key, by default), until you get to the point where you can remove the armbinder yourself.

[sexyvamp]

It seems that Angrim put a special quest armbinder from captured dreams on me that can't be removed normally.

[stobor]

It seems that Angrim put a special quest armbinder from captured dreams on me that can't be removed normally.

 

I don't think that's possible.  Did you perhaps have such an item in your inventory already, when talking to Angrim?  Or had your character previously worn such?  Perhaps Captured Dreams left all armbinders inescapable... there is a setting for that, in Devious Devices.

[rkoelsch1]

Okay I have a little odd behavior going on.

 

 

So I have the shadow dance spell. I have agent of dibella and the ensnare spell. I cast ensnare and am currently wearing the belt. I am lvl 15. I ask him if there is anything he can teach me. He says not right now but since you are here. Tthe scene flickers and when I am back I am still clothed but the belt is gone. I can ask him if anything he can teach me get same response.

But this time I disrobe, get the gab colloar and cuff, have sex. After sex I can ask him how it was for him and he becomes my thrall but the devices are still in place. I have the belt key and can remove then items but they appear on my toon still. I can also tell people I need a strong hand.

 

[Redd]

Most frustrating!  Don't now what the problem is but I keep getting a CTD whenever I try this mod. I seem to have all the required mods to make this work, but the game keeps crashing on start-up (unless one of the other mods you mention here as not being required  actually is essential.

[stobor]

@Redd: if it is crashing on startup, most likely you do not actually have all the required mods (including those mods' dependencies).  Run Wrye Bash and it will tell you exactly what is missing.

[trimstin]

Hi again, I have a new question.  I was playing through and the Carnal Magic quest led me back into Bleak Fall Barrow in the last chest in the dungeon.  I go to loot the chest and there isn't anything in there.  I'm pretty sure you or someone else here asked a similar question, but I couldn't find the answer.

[stobor]

@trimstin: then you probably already picked up the book, on the first time through (without having previously started the quest).  If not, then I'd recommend doing a stopquest/startquest/setstage 10 to get it to assign a different (hopefully not locked) dungeon.

[trimstin]

Ok.  Will try that.   thank you

[Findout]

I've gotten all three endings.  Brilliant stobor!    Sadly I can't finish the 3rd ending.  Read spoiler. 

The Sanguine ending, I get ctd or I get windows loud bong sound with screen freeze, this happens right after Sanguine's Emmissary has sex with pc.

  Please don't read spoiler if you haven't got all three endings.  Note: Ghastly Scream spell didn't seem to work.

[stobor]

No idea what could cause a CTD at that point.  Feel free to post the tail end of a Papyrus log (zipped), though it may not show us much in the event of a crash.

 

Ghastly Scream only works when the player character is in ghost form.  And it doesn't work on animals (just like the various Succubus magic spells).

[Oghmatorro]

I just started the mod went to Angrim and he sent me to find Sam. I found Sam and did the whole quest until I got the staff. But what happens next? If I ask

 

- what have you got for sale

- will you please renew that spell (leads to sex nothing happens, no buff or new spell)

- i want to discuss... (normal menu, leads to sex)

 

Am I missing something?

 

Btw. seductress robe makes part of the body invisible. I am using UNP topmodel. Is there a fix for this?

[Kuロi]

Every time you "renew that spell" your relationship with him goes up. After a couple times the options will change: Hence why stobor said the quest is supposed to be done while doing others.

[stobor]

To expand on what MrPrincePapa said: the optional quests are optional.  They are not required to advance the main dialogue with Angrim (despite the hints to the contrary).  All you have to do is keep having sex with him and he will eventually consent to teach you - but quest stages advance semi-randomly, so it won't happen in a fixed number of rounds.  You could do the whole main quest without leaving Angrim's lair (I do it for testing purposes all the time), but that would be fairly silly.

 

If the robe doesn't work for your body, then don't use the CT77 Remodeled Armor; the mod will default to a vanilla mage robe instead.