Rubber Duck's SAKR Repo

[twistedtrebla]

+1 to what Vaultbait said ?

 

Regarding patches, some mod authors explicitly state they don't want patches for their mod distributed. So the patch approach was always going to have that issue.

 

With robco patcher tho, there's little to no issue at all since you're not distributing modified versions of the mod. Just a bunch of text files. So since we seem to be moving towards the Robco solution, no need to spend time figuring out whether we could've or should've shared patch files 

[vaultbait]

37 minutes ago, rubber_duck said:

About the other part, where I should've asked for permission to upload the modified master plugin... Well, you're right - I technically should've asked before uploading anything. But hear me out!

 

I didn't stole the original mod (Scoop Digger, in this example); nor did I upload it to the other site. I just provided a replacement plugin. The mod as a whole contains various textures, materials and meshes - all of these are owned by the original author, and I didn't reupload anything of this sort. I might or might not be wrong here, but anyone who knows their way in xEdit is able to create a plugin for a clothing mod - the main "parts" of a clothing mod are the mentioned textures, materials, meshes, etc., but not the plugin. The plugin's main purpose is to load into the game and create objects that use the resources made by the author.

 

And then the second issue - what if the original author doesn't reply? What if they vanish, and there's no way to contact them?

 

I know what I did wasn't quite right, but then again, I wouldn't consider this a problem - a modified plugin (which I'm providing) cannot work properly without the resources. To get the resources, user should download the original mod first, and then overwrite its plugin with mine. It's still the same mod, it still looks the same; heck, it even has the original author's name inside the modified plugin (Author in Header)!

 

If mod authors contact me to remove the modified plugin, I'll definitely do it; make no mistake! However, I don't think it's a massive deal. On the contrary, if I uploaded the whole mod (everything; including my modified plugin and my patch plugin), it'd definitely be the opposite.

 

I'm not judging, but the original mod's page has a "Credits and distribution permission" section which, among other things, says that you must get the mod author's permission to modify (presumably means redistribute modifications of) the original. Contacting the author through Nexus is the usual way to go about that unless they specify a different preferred means of contact.

 

If they don't get back to you and you do it anyway, well I honestly don't know how much legal recourse there truly is in such situations but they could certainly at least ask the LL moderators to have the mod taken down, possibly ask to have your account revoked or something. Whether any of that would happen I have no idea, the Community Rules for Lover's Lab don't appear (by my reading) to forbid posting others' work without permission unless maybe it's considered to violate the piracy rule (but that talks about pirating games and game assets) or the doing illegal things rule (but that seems to focus on criminal things, not civil).

 

Edit: And just to be clear, I'm talking about the TheKite_ScoopDigger.esp plugin you copied from the original and compacted the form IDs on, then bundled into your archive. The RD_SAKR_TheKiteScoopDigger.esp patch plugin you created is definitely more of a grey area.

Edited April 2, 2023 by vaultbait

[vaultbait]

26 minutes ago, twistedtrebla said:

no need to spend time figuring out whether we could've or should've shared patch files 

 

In this case I wasn't actually calling out the patch file. The bigger problem is that the patch was patching an included replacer which was a copy of the original plugin compacted so that it could be ESL flagged. The original mod uses a non-ESL-flagged plugin with form IDs outside the allowed range to be trivially made light, so the form IDs the patch is altering aren't the original form IDs they're the compacted ones (hence the need to include the compacted version of the original plugin in the archive along with the patch).

 

For doing it properly, I expect people will need to distribute RobCo Patcher files which reference the original form IDs. If someone wants to privately compact some plugins and invalidate the form ID references in RobCo Patcher lists, they'll have to make local edits to those lists to update the form IDs in them accordingly. Redistributing compacted plugins taken from someone else's mod gets a bit more dicey.

[rubber_duck]

12 minutes ago, vaultbait said:

 

I'm not judging, but the original mod's page has a "Credits and distribution permission" section which, among other things, says that you must get the mod author's permission to modify (presumably means redistribute modifications of) the original. Contacting the author through Nexus is the usual way to go about that unless they specify a different preferred means of contact.

 

If they don't get back to you and you do it anyway, well I honestly don't know how much legal recourse there truly is in such situations but they could certainly at least ask the LL moderators to have the mod taken down, possibly ask to have your account revoked or something. Whether any of that would happen I have no idea, the Community Rules for Lover's Lab don't appear (by my reading) to forbid posting others' work without permission unless maybe it's considered to violate the piracy rule (but that talks about pirating games and game assets) or the doing illegal things rule (but that seems to focus on criminal things, not civil).

 

Edit: And just to be clear, I'm talking about the TheKite_ScoopDigger.esp plugin you copied from the original and compacted the form IDs on, then bundled into your archive. The RD_SAKR_TheKiteScoopDigger.esp patch plugin you created is definitely more of a grey area.

 

I've just tested the RobCo Patcher approach and this doesn't seem to be of a much concern. I'll be taking everything down and including only the INI files.

 

I'll make sure to update this repository's main page with all the proper information once I finish a few files. In the meantime, everything I've uploaded so far will become unavailable.

 

By the way, why do you consider my patch plugin 'grey' area? I'm not mad/offended, just curious.

 

36 minutes ago, twistedtrebla said:

+1 to what Vaultbait said ?

 

Regarding patches, some mod authors explicitly state they don't want patches for their mod distributed. So the patch approach was always going to have that issue.

 

With robco patcher tho, there's little to no issue at all since you're not distributing modified versions of the mod. Just a bunch of text files. So since we seem to be moving towards the Robco solution, no need to spend time figuring out whether we could've or should've shared patch files 

 

Never understood why some authors wouldn't allow patching their work; isn't that what modding is all about? You create something for community, someone from community improves it and shares it back?

 

Whatever the case, I too agree with @vaultbait. It was never my intention to use someone else's work without proper confirmation.

 

Thank you both for clarifying it out, I appreciate it!

[vaultbait]

15 minutes ago, rubber_duck said:

By the way, why do you consider my patch plugin 'grey' area? I'm not mad/offended, just curious.

 

By grey area I meant I could see there being an argument that it wasn't a modification of files from the original mod, as opposed to the replacer plugin which was definitely a file from the original mod that you modified by compacting the form IDs and then included.

 

 

15 minutes ago, rubber_duck said:

Never understood why some authors wouldn't allow patching their work; isn't that what modding is all about? You create something for community, someone from community improves it and shares it back?

 

I certainly encourage people to take whatever they think is useful from the mods I make, but not everyone sees modding the same way so I respect a mod author's wishes even when I personally would have done things differently. Their mod, their rules.

Edited April 2, 2023 by vaultbait

[MysticDaedra]

I've never ever seen a modified .esp file called a "stolen asset". Since any file created with the CK or any official Bethesda utility is the property of Bethesda, I don't think there are many (any) modders who want to hash it out with .esp ownership.

 

If @rubber_duck had shared textures or meshes, then there would be a permissions problem. Sharing a plugin file that on its own doesn't do anything should be fine.

[vaultbait]

6 minutes ago, MysticDaedra said:

I've never ever seen a modified .esp file called a "stolen asset". Since any file created with the CK or any official Bethesda utility is the property of Bethesda, I don't think there are many (any) modders who want to hash it out with .esp ownership.

 

If @rubber_duck had shared textures or meshes, then there would be a permissions problem. Sharing a plugin file that on its own doesn't do anything should be fine.

 

Sure, I only initially mentioned it as an aside. My bigger concern was that some of the ostensible patches (at least the Scoopdigger one) were also embedding an assumption of a custom ESLified version of the original mod's plugin, which is inviting even more compatibility problems since other patches created for that mod are going to be useless unless they also happen to use the exact same compacted ID numbers (which they won't be unless they were also made for the exact same compacted version being shipped).

[twistedtrebla]

@rubber_duck I just uploaded an update that has stockings, heels, and sheer tags for bra/panties. I also put a list of keywords and their form IDs in the main post, for convenience - hopt it helps.

[IBAGadget]

Currently, I'm just adding the keywords to the items that my character is wearing, but I really like the Robco patcher idea. Will definitely be looking into that more closely. 

I have used Lazman's outfit replacers in the past, but I think they would be horrendously difficult to do an automatic assignment with due to the number of optional zaps there are when you create the outfits in BS.

 

Putting a gstring tag on an outfit would be a little pointless if the outfit user zaps them away anyway.

[Krazyone]

Added my own SAKR Addon site, on Lovers Lab. For my mods, on The Nexus.

 

Mine will be for covering the mods I use, and make.

 

I've added a link to your Rubber Ducks SAKR Repo, so people can jump to your Mod Page. You may want to add a Link, and add me to it, for easy access to both pages.

 

 

 

I just added my Clothes Pack 5 Sexy Teddy Treasure Hunt, CP5 Teddy Treasure Hunt SAKR TAGS AddOn KP, with 155 clothing items from Clothes Pack 5...

 

 

Along with your VTAW 8, it should be a good start for Tagged clothing.

 

I can also add my Heels mod as well, with the latest SAKR Skimpy Armor Keyword Resources update.

 

 

Krazyones SAKR Skimpy Armor Keyword Resources Addons

 

[rubber_duck]

6 hours ago, twistedtrebla said:

@rubber_duck I just uploaded an update that has stockings, heels, and sheer tags for bra/panties. I also put a list of keywords and their form IDs in the main post, for convenience - hopt it helps.

 

That was quick, thanks!

 

Well... Talk to you soon, I got INIs to write! Take care and keep up the great work!

[rubber_duck]

5 hours ago, IBAGadget said:

Currently, I'm just adding the keywords to the items that my character is wearing, but I really like the Robco patcher idea. Will definitely be looking into that more closely. 

I have used Lazman's outfit replacers in the past, but I think they would be horrendously difficult to do an automatic assignment with due to the number of optional zaps there are when you create the outfits in BS.

 

Putting a gstring tag on an outfit would be a little pointless if the outfit user zaps them away anyway.

 

I didn't reach Lazman's outfit replacer yet... Primarily because I'm using Classy Chassis Outfits, but also because I've never used craftable versions - only the replacers.

 

Actually, I could just make a patch for vanilla items. That would work with both CCO and Lazman's stuff.

[rubber_duck]

2 hours ago, Krazyone said:

Added my own SAKR Addon site, on Lovers Lab. For my mods, on The Nexus.

 

Mine will be for covering the mods I use, and make.

 

I've added a link to your Rubber Ducks SAKR Repo, so people can jump to your Mod Page. You may want to add a Link, and add me to it, for easy access to both pages.

 

 

 

I just added my Clothes Pack 5 Sexy Teddy Treasure Hunt, CP5 Teddy Treasure Hunt SAKR TAGS AddOn KP, with 155 clothing items from Clothes Pack 5...

 

 

Along with your VTAW 8, it should be a good start for Tagged clothing.

 

I can also add my Heels mod as well, with the latest SAKR Skimpy Armor Keyword Resources update.

 

 

Krazyones SAKR Skimpy Armor Keyword Resources Addons

 

 

When I update my repo again, I'll link yours as well. Thanks for sharing!

[rubber_duck]

13 hours ago, vaultbait said:

// CROSSArmor_Scoop_outfit has pantsThong, pantsTagTight, topLowCutCleavage, topTagCropTop, topTagSideBoob, topTagTight
filterByArmors=TheKite_ScoopDigger.esp|00000842:keywordsToAdd=SkimpyArmorKeywordResource.esm|00000811,SkimpyArmorKeywordResource.esm|00000812,SkimpyArmorKeywordResource.esm|0000081C,SkimpyArmorKeywordResource.esm|0000081D,SkimpyArmorKeywordResource.esm|00000820,SkimpyArmorKeywordResource.esm|00000821

 

 

Hang on a second... I'll use Scoop Digger as an example.

 

So I should have the following directory structure:

Data\F4SE\Plugins\RobCo_Patcher\armor\TheKite_ScoopDigger.ini ? Shouldn't I create a directory TheKite_ScoopDigger inside armor directory and then have the INI inside that one (TheKite_ScoopDigger directory)?

Then the structure would be:

Data\F4SE\Plugins\RobCo_Patcher\armor\TheKite_ScoopDigger\TheKite_ScoopDigger.ini

 

Also, do I need to write the whole FormID or can I just ignore the first two characters/numbers? For example, I want to add "01000805" keyword to "FE001842" armor - can I ignore the first two characters ("01" and "FE")?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Edited April 2, 2023 by rubber_duck

[vaultbait]

1 hour ago, rubber_duck said:

 

Hang on a second... I'll use Scoop Digger as an example.

 

So I should have the following directory structure:

Data\F4SE\Plugins\RobCo_Patcher\armor\TheKite_ScoopDigger.ini ? Shouldn't I create a directory TheKite_ScoopDigger inside armor directory and then have the INI inside that one (TheKite_ScoopDigger directory)?

Then the structure would be:

Data\F4SE\Plugins\RobCo_Patcher\armor\TheKite_ScoopDigger\TheKite_ScoopDigger.ini

 

You can put files directly in the armor directory or in a subdirectory. I wouldn't bother creating directories which will only ever have a single file in them. For example, you could group your SAKR files in a subdirectory of armor, like Data\F4SE\Plugins\RobCo_Patcher\armor\SAKR\TheKite_ScoopDigger.ini and keep putting other files that add SAKR keywords into the same directory.

 

1 hour ago, rubber_duck said:

Also, do I need to write the whole FormID or can I just ignore the first two characters/numbers? For example, I want to add "01000805" keyword to "FE001842" armor - can I ignore the first two characters ("01" and "FE")?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

 

The IDs need to be 8 hexidecimal digits long (I tested shortening them at one point and RobCo Patcher ignored my entries entirely). The first two digits are arbitrary though, it seems to ignore them because they're going to be different for everyone. I've personally been replacing them with 00 in order to avoid confusion. So in your example, changing them to 00000805 and 00001842.

[rubber_duck]

42 minutes ago, vaultbait said:

 

You can put files directly in the armor directory or in a subdirectory. I wouldn't bother creating directories which will only ever have a single file in them. For example, you could group your SAKR files in a subdirectory of armor, like Data\F4SE\Plugins\RobCo_Patcher\armor\SAKR\TheKite_ScoopDigger.ini and keep putting other files that add SAKR keywords into the same directory.

 

 

The IDs need to be 8 hexidecimal digits long (I tested shortening them at one point and RobCo Patcher ignored my entries entirely). The first two digits are arbitrary though, it seems to ignore them because they're going to be different for everyone. I've personally been replacing them with 00 in order to avoid confusion. So in your example, changing them to 00000805 and 00001842.

 

Thanks a lot, I really appreciate this!

 

By the way, I made xEdit script to export all the FormIDs to csv so the process is faster (especially when writing INIs in VS Code!).

[Guest]

with this I'm glad eco has a vanilla biped version of itself lol

[Gamaramdi]

First thing is first, thanks for doing this.

Is amazing how the community stands behind a nice idea.

Now for most of us not so immersed in the techy side...
Is this the forms id that we sould change if we have a esl'd master?
And would it change every time you add a new esl or esl'd esp?

 

Ok so i went to TRY to do something with this info and i just cant... Where do i get the id's from for the patching?

A while ago i wanted to make a file to prevent the slot 33 to be cleared in the AAF animations, but i need the id's of every cloth, and they're mods so i  couldn't make it

Now i'd like to patch the xm2010 to use 20mm vulcan ammo from combinedarmsNV, but i dont know if i have to patch the weapon or the ammo to be available for every other weapon...

I know this is not the place to ask for this, so i just want to know where to find the id's we're talking about here... Thanks

Edited April 3, 2023 by Gamaramdi

[Ddot14003]

Are we supposed to download RD_SAKR_RCP_Repository? When I hit download it still downloads RD_SAKR_ASA_V2

[twistedtrebla]

Thanks for creating a repo for this. I think I'll create some robco patches for some of the mods as I find time.

 

By the way, I think you should remove patches that were created using "esl-ed esps". They're essentially useless for everybody else and it's just going to cause confusion. I think it would be better if we created install instructions that are dead simple that even a caveman could do it. Download and install Robco Patcher. Download and install this patch. Done.

 

The esl patches may have some value in that only the base armor form ID needs to be changed. So maybe you can upload that as a modder's resource, and hopefully someone who has the time can convert those into base esp armor form ID, to be adopted for general use. Point is, it shouldnt be part of the main patch installation, but a separate modder file intended to be collaborated on by the community to create an actual working patch.

Edited April 3, 2023 by twistedtrebla

[vaultbait]

1 hour ago, twistedtrebla said:

By the way, I think you should remove patches that were created using "esl-ed esps". They're essentially useless for everybody else and it's just going to cause confusion.

 

Fully agree.

 

I know I already said the same as well, but just to expand on it a bit, it's a bad idea to compact form IDs on plugins unless you're the mod author and the result of compaction is the official version you're releasing. Switching between plugins with and without compacted IDs causes confusing breakage for users, and if a user compacts a plugin themselves there's no guarantee they're going to end up with the same IDs in their compacted version. Other existing patches (plugin or RobCo style) aren't going to work for compacted plugins. For example, if a user has a patch that alters the slots on an item, that has to be redone to match the compacted IDs.

 

So many ESPs are already trivially flaggable as ESL without compacting that the ESP limit should be increasingly rare for users. I'm a packrat who plays with 600 installed mods which have 400 plugins between them and roughly half are flagged as ESL (with another ~15% that could be light but I simply haven't bothered to flag because I'm already riding well below the limit). And that's without having compacted a single one myself.

Edited April 3, 2023 by vaultbait

[twistedtrebla]

Here's a Robco Patcher ini file I created for the doneb14n clothes pack 4.doneb14n_cp4.ini

[twistedtrebla]

RobCo Patcher ini file for doneb14n clothes pack 3

 

doneb14n_cp3.ini

[rubber_duck]

3 hours ago, twistedtrebla said:

By the way, I think you should remove patches that were created using "esl-ed esps". They're essentially useless for everybody else and it's just going to cause confusion. I think it would be better if we created install instructions that are dead simple that even a caveman could do it. Download and install Robco Patcher. Download and install this patch. Done.

 

1 hour ago, vaultbait said:

Fully agree.

 

Yep, I figured it out. Heck, those two patches @twistedtrebla provided won't work on my end because - my plugins are ESL-flagged.

 

That being said...

 

I've since started working on a program that automates the whole process and so far it's coming nicely. Everything should be ready by Saturday (08/04/23), but I cannot make any promises. At the moment it works, but it's a bit wonky. Oh, and I'm still missing a GUI (trying to make it as idiot-proof as possible; no offense to anyone!). Plus, I'd need to write the whole documentation on how to use the thing. TL;DR, I'm planning to release it this weekend, but things could go wrong and/or lag behind.

 

Anyways, once I'm done with it, I'll update this repo to v1.0.0, and that should completely eliminate the need to use someone else's patches. Crossing fingers it goes to plan!

 

Also, I probably could've made this sooner, but I have a lot on my plate in real life right now and I'm lucky if I can find 2 hours per day for this.

[rubber_duck]

23 hours ago, Gamaramdi said:

First thing is first, thanks for doing this.

Is amazing how the community stands behind a nice idea.

Now for most of us not so immersed in the techy side...
Is this the forms id that we sould change if we have a esl'd master?
And would it change every time you add a new esl or esl'd esp?

 

Ok so i went to TRY to do something with this info and i just cant... Where do i get the id's from for the patching?

A while ago i wanted to make a file to prevent the slot 33 to be cleared in the AAF animations, but i need the id's of every cloth, and they're mods so i  couldn't make it

Now i'd like to patch the xm2010 to use 20mm vulcan ammo from combinedarmsNV, but i dont know if i have to patch the weapon or the ammo to be available for every other weapon...

I know this is not the place to ask for this, so i just want to know where to find the id's we're talking about here... Thanks

 

Sorry for late reply!

 

Nope, that's the FormID of a keyword. Look closely at the beginning of the line:

 

filterByArmors=ASA.esp|[Armor_FormID]:keywordsToAdd=SkimpyArmorKeywordResource.esm|[Keyword_FormID]

 

Slot 33 is used for full body and, in my opinion, should always get stripped. Think of it this way: all the suits (such as vault suit, mechanic outfit, etc.; basically every vanilla clothing) wouldn't get stripped.

 

To prevent slot 33 to be unequipped by AAF animations, you have to edit the AAF's equipment config. You can ask for support on AAF's Discord for any help and/or questions you might have.