Mod Organizer

[Quisling]

 

Its ridiculous, the game as I understand it only allows so many esp / esm and bsa before its brain implodes or something, and when you get a few big mods combinations which rack up the patching needs total, instability fast approaches.

 

 

255 esps/esms.

 

I'm not sure of the exact situation when you have more, but it appears to reload a lot of already loaded mods - so I'm guessing it drops enough from the front of the list to just have 255 left, and since they now have a different load index, it thinks they're all new.

[Killikrates~2014]

You can launch Wrye from within MO and create a bashed patch. You can also use the TES5Edit merge plugins script 1.65 to merge plugins (reccommend avoiding those with dependant scripts/bsa and obviously those plugins which are used as masters by others).

 

Here's a sample of my current merged patches, saves quite a few plugin slots in that 255 limit;

 

 

D - Fixes; Alternate Entrance BFB, Archery Dummy XP - DLC addon, Campfire Cooking (Alchemy, DB, DG), Cooking Alchemy, Cooking Expanded HF, Correct Gender Animations ("", DG, DB), dD Realistic Ragdoll Force, Height Adjusted Races (MW Lore Heights, DB, DG, True Giants & Mammoths), Helgen Imperial Armory, No Combat Boundaries - Legendary, RV Markers, SPT Consistent Older People, WAF GDO Patch.

E - Interface; Blessings Altar Descriptions, CharGen Morphs, Chesko Lore Based Loading Screens, Disease Descriptions ("", DB, DG), Dungeon Quest Awareness, EEO Morphs.

ELE complete - Interior Lighting; ELE - Interior Lighting ("", DB, DG, HF).

F - Graphics; Better Dynamic Snow, Episode Parallax, SkyFalls DB Small waterfalls, Skyfalls + SkyMills DG + DB, SMIM (-DB Tern Fix, -Dungeons Cliffs Ice Skirts, -Farmhouse Flickering Fix, -Furniture Chest Snow Fix, -Shack Roof Fixes, -Shack Roof Fixes DB.

G - Civil; Better City Entrances, Better Docks DLC, Dawn of Riften, Hearthfire Chimneys, High Hrothgar Overhaul, Hold Border Banners, Immersive Stables, Raven Rock Expanded, Understone Keep Repair, Unique Border Gates Better DG Entrance patch, Unique Border Gates Point the Way patch.

G - Environment; Ash Rocks, Beautiful Whiterun, Glorious Grass, Moss Rocks DB, RBB Long & Row Boats DLC, RBB Row Boats - HF fix, RW2 - Legendary, SIP DB DG HF, Skyrim Flora Overhaul, Sulfur Rocks, Unique Grasses, Unique Grasses clipping fixer.

G - ETAC patches; Complete (BFT, ELFX, EWDR, LoS, Plaguesword, Taverns, W&C Holidays).

H - Actors; Beards, Brows, Ethereal Elven Overhaul, Merida Hair, ORM-Arvak, SG Eyebrows, True Eyes.

I - Equipment; AMB Glass Variants Lore, CAPBAC for CCOR, Differently Ebony, Elemental Staves, Explosive Bolts Visualized, WAF Replacer Improved Closefaced Helmets (imp_helm_imp, imp_helm_dawn, imp_guard_helm), WAF AMB Skyforge Weapons Patch.

J - Animations; Animated Weapon Enchantments, Block Sparkles, Dawnguard Rune Weapons FX Replacer, Deadly Spell Impacts, No Spinning Death Animations, Physics Impact Damage Fix, Remove Interior Fog v2.

K - Clutter; Clams Drop Pearls, More Salt Please ("", DB), Pilgrims Delight, Radiant & Unique Potions Poisons & Booze, Skyrim Coin Replacer Redux, Soul Gems Differ - E.

L - AOS patches; (DCOd, EBT, FIO, GDO, RW2, WAF, W&C).

L - Sound; Dragon Shout Voice, IHSS, Random Thunder, Symphonies of Skyrim.

M - Gameplay; ACE Archery DB, Arrow Duration 60, dD DB-DG SIC EBT Patch, Humans drop human parts, Racial Powers to Lesser Powers, Slightly Reduced NPC Greetings, SSR ACE Armor Patch, VL No AoE Drain.

N - New Equipment; Bosmer Lingerie, Calyps Bosmer, Gladiator Armor, Insanity's (Chrysamere, Empire Longswords, Shields, Sorrow, Umbra Sword), Sniper Bow Pack.

O - Optional Body; Academy Dropout, Black Vinyl Strap, calyps Investigator, el Gilded Doublet Set Color, Fence Net Body Set, Lady of Death, Leather Cami & Shorts, Mashup UNP, Scarlet Dawn Armor, Smithy Sex, Snap-up Shorts & Top, West Wind Assault.

O - Optional Petite Body; Academy Dropout, Black Strap, Bondage, Fence Net Body Set, Leather Cami & Shorts, Leather Clothes, Sexy Smith, Snap-up Shorts & Top, Undies, Void Armor.

P - Followers; Anduniel Alternate Looks, Blacksmith Girl, Consistent Vignar Grey-Mane, Follower Ciceria, Follower Elf, Follower Emily, Hearthfire Multi Kid Last Name, Mrissi Sini New Look, Poet, Ulvhild, Vilja Hearthfire Move Kids fix, zzz Jenassa makeover.

Q - Quests; CWI (DawnDragon, ELnFX, Apachii SkyHair), Neutral Hjerim, Treacleman Moonpath Patch.

U - Ultimate Lakeview Manor; Lakeview Manor Avant Garde Performance, Lakeview Manor Fish Hatchery, Lights LM, Llewellyn female.

 

[AwfulArchdemon]

No good, Furball. He said he doesn't know enough about the esp file format to do it. He also stated that the only practical solution would be to port the code over from WryeBash, but that wouldn't make much sense. We already have WryeBash, and it's not being supported (afaik).

 

MO provides a Python interface for plugins, so it would be possible, but we'd need someone who understands the WB code, which Tannin does not (according to him).

 

So no dice. Oh well. MO's already badass.

[AshenWolf]

i seems to be having problem; there seem to be an "data" that is overwriting my body mod, and i can't figure out how to fix or get rid of this "data"

 

 

Edit: seems like i have fixed it by re-installing the body and skeleton, but i still see it being overwritten by this "data" mod

[bob11]

There's TES5Edit + Merge Scripts 1.65 for merging mods btw.  It even merges followers now, although I've only tried it with folllowers that don't have associated quests.  Just be sure that TES5edit is in its own directory in Skyrim, then run it through MO.  For the record, it'll put the new facegen data in meshes and textures in Overwrite, if you do it correctly.

[AwfulArchdemon]

i seems to be having problem; there seem to be an "data" that is overwriting my body mod, and i can't figure out how to fix or get rid of this "data"

 

 

Edit: seems like i have fixed it by re-installing the body and skeleton, but i still see it being overwritten by this "data" mod

You have to go to your Skyrim\Data folder to get rid of the skeleton you manually installed earlier on.

 

My Skyrim is in C:\Games

 

C:\Games\Steam\SteamApps\common\Skyrim\ModOrganizer\mods\XP32 Maximum Skeleton -XPMS\meshes\actors\character\character assets

 

Manually it would be:

 

C:\Games\Steam\SteamApps\common\Skyrim\Data\\meshes\actors\character\character assets

 

Unless you manually changed Skyrim's installation pah like me (as you should), yours would be in:

 

C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\StamApps\common\Skyrim\Data\meshes\actors\character\character assets

 

If you already went there and did that, and it's stil showing an overwrite, turn off MO and reload, and the "error" will disappear.

[Prometeus5879]

Highly compressed BSAs extract into memory far faster than loading a file from an SSD

So they are more optimal especially when cached than loose files are.

 

http://obge.paradice-insight.us/wiki/NIFopt

 

 

 

A little calculation

So lets see a little calculation for two operations of reading data from disk, uncompressed and then compressed:

1. Harddisk-throughput: 20MB/s
2. Memory-throughput: 2000MB/s
3. zlib-throughput: 80MB/s
4. uncompressed size: 100MB
5. compressed size: 60MB

This yields:

• Reading 100MB at 20MB/s from disk takes 5s.
• Reading 60MB at 20MB/s from disk takes 3s, decompressing 60MB at 80MB/s in-memory takes 0,75s, so a total of 3,75s.

In case the data is very small it's probable that seeking time will start dominating the times:

• Reading 1MB at 20MB/s from disk takes 0,05s.
• Reading 0,6MB at 20MB/s from disk takes 0.03s, decompressing 0,6MB at 80MB/s in-memory takes 0,0075s, so a total of 0,0375s.

Seeking may be as much as 0,002s. Nevertheless it doesn't change the fact that reading compressed data is faster as long as the decompressor is faster than the disk. It's a rather theoretic notion, but when using compressed solid archives even the seek-times go down as the disc-head has to reposition a smaller distance while bulk-reading from the same archive.

Also, in reality with a modern system the decompression speed of zlib reach realistic 250-500MB/s (as you can see here), which can be far beyond any SSD-speed.

 

Is the Mod Organiser programmer ever going to do a Bashed Patch .. Seems like its the only thing missing, and Wrye Bash does not seem to be being developed ( maybe wrong, not sure )

The programmer seems like he would be talented enough to do this, call it a MO Patch

 

 

I think the problem with unpacked bsa's is that even if an esp only needs a few of the resources packed in the bsa, your system still needs to load the whole bsa and then unpack the things the esp needs. Another thing is if you have an esp that uses resources from several bsa's. Then again, if unpacked, the system has to load all the bsa's and extract what's needed instead of simply loading the required files directly from disk.

 

I think that the speed will vary to what mods you have installed and how fragmented their resources are stored in several bsa's.

[AwfulArchdemon]

This is why I kept it simple on the OP and simply said "Say no to unpacking BSAs". If someone plans on altering a BSA, that person is obviously a modder, and already knows what they're doing. There's no good reason to unpack a BSA otherwise. Unpacking won't do the mod or MO any favors.

[Furball]

AwfulArchdemon Thank you for trying re MO Patch, wish I knew how they do that stuff but I havent got a clue where anyone would start.

Ah well, no dramas, game works CTD free and well enough with using a few methods combined, so long as you apply a bit of common

 

I agree with saying no to unpacking all BSAs too, there's just no need and as a general recommendation its a bad idea, so many complications can be made by the unwary noob reading this stuff who does not understand the mod authors expected chain of load ordering for every file involved ( as per this post by one of the old Wrye Bash programmers ), and would then go shouting at mod authors, promptly followed by a verbal boot up the noobs rear end to sort his / her own crap out

[AwfulArchdemon]

Furball:

Check the end of your first paragraph. You seem to have missed a kinda important word there... Can't wait till you see which one.  

 

[Furball]

Furball:

Check the end of your first paragraph. You seem to have missed a kinda important word there... Can't wait till you see which one.  

 

 

Being military there are two ways that could have gone, sense, or cdf ( c = common, d = dog f =a rude word ) - I left it to the reader ..

 

Just saw this post http://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/1497553-relz-wrye-bash-thread-36/page-2?do=findComment&comment=23644068 ..

 

New recruit with the necessary programming experience ?

[AwfulArchdemon]

Maybe. Looks like he's looking for experts on WB too, though.

[gvman3670]

I've got a MO problem. I recently restored my computer to factory defaults. Then went through the painstaking process of 600 updates (with around 100 restarts), getting security software back in it, reinstalliing my preferred browser and so on and so forth.
 
I reinstall Skyrim and re-download the archives of my favorite mods. I grab the newest version (1.1.2) of MO of course, as well as SKSE 1.7, LOOT and TES5Edit.
 
I ran it vanilla and the game launched and ran fine (even after cleaning the masters). I also launched it from the SKSE launcher and all was fine. The game ran perfectly. So I fire up MO and try to launch it with SKSE and it crashes right after the Bethesda logo. Repeatedly. Everything in MO is fine since it's only running Update, DLCs and the Unofficial patches. That's it. Those things will run fine outside of MO.
 
So I grabbed an older version of MO (1.0.11) that I've used for months and the results are exactly the same. No difference at all.
 
So just what the Hell is going on here?

 

 

EDIT: It seems I am a total dumbass. I must've checked "no" when it asked if I wanted to start Steam now! I figured out how to reset dialogs then chose "yes" and both versions of MO will run the SKSE launcher now.

 

FUCKING DERP!!

 

EDIT 2: I am STILL having issues now that I've added mods. None of these are intense mods, just basice textures and character beautifying stuff. Things I've used before anyway. And LOOT sorts them (load order is correct/functional as far as I can see), plus MO has no warnings (besides stuff in "overwrite"). But it CTDs as soon as I get past the Bethesda logo.

 

I've made sure the ini's are set up, the profile has local saves and archive invalidation checked, and I've combed the left pane looking for potentially bad overwrites. I shouldn't be having these issues at all. I know I shouldn't. I've done this for myself a few times and did the EXACT same thing for my neighbor a few days ago (same SKSE and MO versions for him, too).

 

Now I am stumped. Help please?
 

[RitualClarity]

Go through the mods list in detail and make sure it isn't something going on there. Or better run TESedit and make sure it don't state something is wrong. If it still works properly and LOOT is stating it runs properly much more work would be needed. (way beyond this alien) However the normal rules still apply. Load orders, Papurs logs, mod list etc...

 

Oh, did you run Skyrim plain once before running the managers? I found that helps set up the original .ini files for Besthesta games. Oblivion, Fallout 3, Fallout NV and yes even Skyrim. I run it, start and go through a few moments of the game then shut down (usually after the first ability to do so) Don'  really know if it is needed however it seems to bring me good luck.

 

I just had to post here in response.. (one because you have helped me out greatly) because I ran into the very same problem with FNV and a mod when LOOT sorted it. It didn't like the sort and caused problems. Runing FNVedit found the error (well several apparently) and when I fixed them it now don't crash.. (well it still crashes 15 to 45 minutes in for some reason and it never did that before but that is a different story)

[gvman3670]

Well, what I did was start just running pure vanilla (no addons or anything) and checking to see if it started with the launcher and with SKSE. It did. And with Dawnguard as well. But when I got to Hearhfires it would crash. And it was OK with Dragonborn as well (including the patches).

 

So I figured my Hearthfires files were bad and am in the process of redownloading after deleting everything Skyrim. Maybe this time I'll get all good files. I don't know how I got bad/missing files, but I guess that if you're running a bunch of mod archive downloads at the same time as Steam it can happen?

[AwfulArchdemon]

Best to stick with just the game when dl'ing. Not worth the risk to dl anything else at the same time, though the odds Hearthfires being corrupted just by dl'ing mods at the same time as it is still really low.

 

If it happens again, run TES5Edit (if you didn't already). There's another step you can take just to check, but let's see what happens after a fresh HF install first. Maybe 2 steps, now that I think about it, but the last one's something only I would do (I think).

[chajapa]

I have a question about how much extra space I'll end up using if I install MO.

 

When I install.... let's say a specific armor (non-vanilla, not a replacer), is it only installed in one place? Or if I use it in several profiles would files be copied to each profile using that armor?

 

I'm asking this because I've gotten much more interested in trying various mods and less interested in actually playing through the game (again). I am seriously short on disk space. I have about 10gigs left on a 100gig partition where Skyrim resides. (I run on a mac mini, using bootcamp so this is in a 100 gig bootcamp partition that I created BEFORE I got SKyrim and got hooked on it )

 

I use BodySlide, NifScope, TES5Edit, Wrye Bash, and some other tools. Am I going to have a hard time getting all of those things working? 

 

Here's my reality:

If I'm going to keep screwing around with SKyrim and all of these mods, I am almost certainly going to have to reinstall from scratch at some point and start over. I would LIKE to make the Windows7 partition bigger, but that means deleting the partition, resizing, and then having to reinstall windows7 and THEN reinstall Skyrim and all of this other stuff. Supposedly there's a program for Apple that will resize the bootcamp (windows7) partition without me having to redo everything. That would be ideal (for $20).

 

BUT.... how much bigger should I make it?  What are the disk space implications when installing MO?

 

Thanks

 

[AwfulArchdemon]

It'll be available for all profiles. You can choose to have them active in every profile, or have them turned on in one profile, and off in another. It'll take exactly as much space as it says it will, but remember that MO extracts the mod into a folder to use it, so whatever space the mod has when compressed in its zip (the way it comes), and whatever space a new folder would take up, that's how much space it would take up (not that much).

 

You should run NifSkope on it's own, without using MO to run it. The rest will run fine, assuming you add them to MO's executables, of course.

 

You won't have to reinstall Skyrim, or any mods with MO.

 

MO takes up 16,931 KB compressed, and 64.9 MB uncompressed.

[gvman3670]

Best to stick with just the game when dl'ing. Not worth the risk to dl anything else at the same time, though the odds Hearthfires being corrupted just by dl'ing mods at the same time as it is still really low.

 

If it happens again, run TES5Edit (if you didn't already). There's another step you can take just to check, but let's see what happens after a fresh HF install first. Maybe 2 steps, now that I think about it, but the last one's something only I would do (I think).

 

Well, I just reinstalled and tried the vanilla launcher with all the DLCs running and it worked. It wouldn't before so I THINK it will be alright. But I won't know until I fire up MO with my mods. So I am keeping my fingers crossed.

 

[gvman3670]

Yeah, it won't add the mod's size to each profile. If you have 400 mods installed into MO and they take up 5 gigs then that 5 gigs is all, regardless of how many profiles you have or how many are using whatever mods in that group. It's just the size of the MO mod folder with the uncompressed mods. And MO doesn't have to be installed into the Skyrim folder for that matter, I've run it from my documents folder and it still worked just the same. It can be placed anywhere.

[gvman3670]

Nope. It's a no go for some reason or other. No errors in LOOT, no issues showing in MO, and I am confused. I started the game using the vanilla launcher and all DLCs running and went through the entire open sequence, and I started it with the SKSE launcher. But MO just won't launch. I've copied and pasted in the ini files from the vanilla folder and everything that I've done before and it just won't go.

 

I am at a loss right now and I need to get to bed for work tomorrow so I can't mess with it any more tonight. It's giving me a headache.

[RitualClarity]

Well, what I did was start just running pure vanilla (no addons or anything) and checking to see if it started with the launcher and with SKSE. It did. And with Dawnguard as well. But when I got to Hearhfires it would crash. And it was OK with Dragonborn as well (including the patches).

 

So I figured my Hearthfires files were bad and am in the process of redownloading after deleting everything Skyrim. Maybe this time I'll get all good files. I don't know how I got bad/missing files, but I guess that if you're running a bunch of mod archive downloads at the same time as Steam it can happen?

 

 

Nope. It's a no go for some reason or other. No errors in LOOT, no issues showing in MO, and I am confused. I started the game using the vanilla launcher and all DLCs running and went through the entire open sequence, and I started it with the SKSE launcher. But MO just won't launch. I've copied and pasted in the ini files from the vanilla folder and everything that I've done before and it just won't go.

 

I am at a loss right now and I need to get to bed for work tomorrow so I can't mess with it any more tonight. It's giving me a headache.

After downloading from Steam I have to verify cache before I can get it to work properly. I do this now with most of the games I get. Many times it for some reason wants to download again 4 or more gigs of files. Then it is good to go. Maybe try the verification step next.

[AwfulArchdemon]

I've been ninja'd! That's one of the many steps I was about to post, but it's worth a shot first, since it's pretty quick. Let me know if it works. By all means, it should. Steam verifies the cache. The game has no excuse not to launch after that. MO sure doesn't cause it. Know why?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Skyrim/Data owes it's hygiene to...

 

MOD ORGANIZER

[RitualClarity]

 

I've been ninja'd! That's one of the many steps I was about to post, but it's worth a shot first, since it's pretty quick. Let me know if it works. By all means, it should. Steam verifies the cache. The game has no excuse not to launch after that. MO sure doesn't cause it. Know why?

[gvman3670]

Already tried it. The game runs when I launch it with the vanilla launcher or the SKSE loader. Runs perfectly. But I can't launch the game via SKSE through MO.