Mod Organizer

[Varithina]

 

Okay, it's finally time to test F4 with Tannin's new work. I have slacked, but I've had reasons.

 

Tannin wishes his bugs to be reported here. This is where he looks, and this is where he answers.

 

As for me, I am ready to rock, and will mediate and help as much as I can with MO2, but I do wonder if maybe MO2 should have a separate thread.

 

Should I make a Mod Organizer 2 thread?

 

 

That would probably be a very good idea.  As mo2 is quirky to say the least at times.

[RitualClarity]

 

I am trying to determine what could be causing this for fallout 4 i tried it with mo newest beta 3 and i noticed it will make loading from game cell take very long time to complete. then i tried it the same with just manual installing mods and my load time became normal again. is this a known problem with the beta MO ??

 

 

 

 This release is for testers only! If you're not willing to participate on the issue tracker, do NOT contact me about problems!

 

Okay, it's finally time to test F4 with Tannin's new work. I have slacked, but I've had reasons.

 

Tannin wishes his bugs to be reported here. This is where he looks, and this is where he answers.

 

As for me, I am ready to rock, and will mediate and help as much as I can with MO2, but I do wonder if maybe MO2 should have a separate thread.

 

Should I make a Mod Organizer 2 thread?

 

A few things.

 

yes make a MO 2 thread so to not confuse those using MO with possible issues that are unique with MO 2 which is a different manager designed for the 64bit Fallout 4.

 

Also I don't think it matter where you report it as he isn't working on it anymore so you can post bugs all you want but I don't think he or anyone is working on it. At least currently. Perhaps someone would be kind and decide to continue from where he left off. Perhaps Tanning would be great and even give some in sight to someone that is willing to do this if they have questions on why something was done a particular way

[AwfulArchdemon]

 

 

 

I am trying to determine what could be causing this for fallout 4 i tried it with mo newest beta 3 and i noticed it will make loading from game cell take very long time to complete. then i tried it the same with just manual installing mods and my load time became normal again. is this a known problem with the beta MO ??

 

 

 

 This release is for testers only! If you're not willing to participate on the issue tracker, do NOT contact me about problems!

 

Okay, it's finally time to test F4 with Tannin's new work. I have slacked, but I've had reasons.

 

Tannin wishes his bugs to be reported here. This is where he looks, and this is where he answers.

 

As for me, I am ready to rock, and will mediate and help as much as I can with MO2, but I do wonder if maybe MO2 should have a separate thread.

 

Should I make a Mod Organizer 2 thread?

 

 

A few things.

 

yes make a MO 2 thread so to not confuse those using MO with possible issues that are unique with MO 2 which is a different manager designed for the 64bit Fallout 4.

 

Also I don't think it matter where you report it as he isn't working on it anymore so you can post bugs all you want but I don't think he or anyone is working on it. At least currently. Perhaps someone would be kind and decide to continue from where he left off. Perhaps Tanning would be great and even give some in sight to someone that is willing to do this if they have questions on why something was done a particular way

 

Worst case scenario, DoubleYou or GSDFan or even our very own Akzyra will pop in over there to answer. Best case, Tannin will too.

 

Just got off work, and I have been managing my Winning Putt guild LoversLab (sound familiar?), and making a Skyrim mod, so I am still slow to make the thread, but once I get a little more familiar with it, and pester Tannin a bit more for any side notes people should see on my thread, I'll get that sucker ready to go. I also still haven't bought any DLC, and I'd like to be on par with everyone else, so I gotta get that stuff too.

 

Also need to decide on the OP art.  The ominous, peaceful cloud of serenity has already been done. Maybe spell out Mod Organizer 2 in badass electricity? Ball of MO2 hellfire? A shape of MO2 forming in the ocean? (like my Steam profile pic) Blood dripping down a wall and spelling Mod Organizer 2? Nah, too morbid. Maybe just spell it out in the Fallout 4 font?

 

 

The lightning bolt through the O in Organizer would be a nice touch. Hmmm.....

 

On a side note, MO is being built by others too, now. --> https://github.com/TanninOne/modorganizer/issues/995

[zippy57]

Anyone have any idea what could cause Fallout 4 to ignore keyboard input if launched via MO?

[RitualClarity]

Anyone have any idea what could cause Fallout 4 to ignore keyboard input if launched via MO?

 

I am not using MO for Fallout 4. However I have had strange issues with the 32bit versions.

 

Below is a very long shot and just a thought no hard support...

 

 

Most have come to be due to the settings inside of MO. I\

I have ran into all sorts of issues and later after tracing it back to the original settings of the game or something I changed game wise outside of MO. This is a long shot but there is a controller option in the game settings. Default I believe is set to "On". Might be messing things up. See if you can turn that off. Might mean you have to do so outside of MO then import the needed .ini back into mo perhaps into a new test profile to see if it does change things.

 

Again this is a very long shot. Sorry I can't help further. I don't use MO for Fallout 4 as it isn't stable enough for my use.  Perhaps one fo these days I will fire it up. Maybe when someone starts updating it or taking it over and I reload my game)

 

I hope that helps.

 

 

[zippy57]

That was the first thing I checked. Gamepad is off in the MO profile, off in My Documents, and off in-game. Plus, I do have mouse control in-game, which I believe is disabled when gamepad is on. Plus the keybinding menu is displaying keys and not controller buttons. Interestingly, I did learn that if I hammer ~ as soon as I launch the game, I can open the console and type in it freely, but the game won't accept input of ~ or Enter so commands can't be done and the console can't be closed. So something is breaking during the initial loading process while running through MO but not when running any other way, and it's not due to a mod since I tested with no mods active; it's MO itself.

 

Sadly, as much as I hate it looks like I'm now forced to migrate all my mods over to NMM. Which has reminded me how terrible NMM is.

[RitualClarity]

I thought you would have checked all those in your diagnosis. Just covering the basics in case it was overlooked. (which would be very rare for you to do ) I also believe the mouse control is turned off using a controller as well. In any case, your issue with the command prompt is a serious issue on its own. (I assume that you also ran the game outside of MO through Steam to be sure it isn't related to a game or files... for example need for a verify cache to fix something corrupted. )

 

If you migrate your mods over to NMM:

It is better than the old version that you might remember. Not as good and of course don't have the features that MO users love about MO.

http://www.loverslab.com/topic/52647-nmm-063-important-info-help-tips-tricks/?p=1758598

The above I ran into an issue with the most current version of NMM.  Since I assume this is the only game you will be using best to get this version. I am going to have to roll back to a previous version and stick with it until the new NMM or whatever it is has been released by Tannin.

 

Also, that thread has some useful setup advice and info in the OP.

[zippy57]

Yep, ran it by itself and even through NMM with success. I've also moved all my mods over and it works just fine. It's something MO is doing that is causing the issue. NMM is better than last I checked. It can count now, which is good, but it can't tell the difference between a main file and an optional file, which is ridiculous considering it's made by people who run the Nexus. It's still really, really bad:

• The automated game-finding process on install clearly checks Steam folders first but still misses games in Steam folders
• Sometimes it doesn't want the folder with the game .exe but tells you it does anyway
• Mod description UI on the side isn't always on, meaning toggling between mods that have a description and mods that don't make all the columns freak out
• Mod description box is too small considering it tries to keep formatting intact
• Nexus mod manager can't properly parse Nexus site text
• The default name for every mod is almost always the mod's name repeated twice
• The entry boxes in the mod info field are stupidly small
• Sometimes the missing mod info tool finds a matching mod on the Nexus but pretends there are no downloads association with it and since there's no way to add it manually you have to download it again
• You can't change the columns that are visible and remove the unnecessary install/download date fields
• Even though it's possible to add multiple mods via archive at once, the add dialog box doesn't support this for some reason
• The UI is terrible, splitting plugins and mods for no reason and causing both tabs to be more empty space than actual UI
• It still occasionally fails to completely uninstall mods

On the plus side:

• It doesn't intentionally mangle version information
• Queuing up installs is nice, too bad activation uses a completely different system and blocks user input
• Download progress doesn't visually stick for the first 10%

It occurs to me that there are actually no active mod managers for FO4 right now, with both MO and NMM dead.

[Varithina]

 

It occurs to me that there are actually no active mod managers for FO4 right now, with both MO and NMM dead.

 

 

Mo2 is not quite that dead v2.08b https://github.com/LePresidente/modorganizer/releases its also now on nexus here http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/6194/? though its not on the fallout 4 nexus.

 

Though it does not do that much in the way of fixes and such, the overwrite folder at least for me now works on fallout 4, though the sse useage is a bit iffy, but I have not really played around much with the new version.  Note I install it in portable mode.

 

 

[RitualClarity]

Yes.. and many of the things you mention above is the reason NMM is dead. There really isn't any real active mod managers. I think they are developing WyreBash still and that has some progress for Fallout 4 from what I heard but I haven't checked further. Not ready to rework my mods for Fallout 4 for a new manager.

 

Hopefully with Dark One putting $$$ into developing a new manager from what I assume is ground up using the author of MO that the new mod manager for Nexus will be Great. However there isn't even a beta to try yet. Hell not even an closed Alpha for some to try. It is a mystery as to how it is going to be setup and what features will be part of it. IN any case it is truly time for NMM to be taken out back and shot.. It has code from way back to FOMM and some have even stated OBMM (or perhaps the code from FOMM is code from OBMM, not sure) IN any case it is OLD and the community is in desperate need for a new system. Shame that MO (the new system) was killed. I really liked it and was hoping for a nice upgrade to the 64 bit version to occur. 

[Ark of Truth]

NMM currently works fine for Fallout 4 but I would prefer a new manager for games, some kind of love child between NMM and MO

[zippy57]

 

It occurs to me that there are actually no active mod managers for FO4 right now, with both MO and NMM dead.

 

Mo2 is not quite that dead v2.08b https://github.com/LePresidente/modorganizer/releases its also now on nexus here http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/6194/? though its not on the fallout 4 nexus.

 

Took a look. Doesn't fix the issue unfortunately, but it does say there are notable problems with Win10. One of the recent updates must have screwed things up. Again. Still, nice to know someone's working on MO.

IN any case it is truly time for NMM to be taken out back and shot..

It's been time for that since the day it was first released. The only advantage NMM ever really had over FOMM or OBMM  was the ability to check for updates, but that's been trouble from day one. The very first time I tried to use NMM, which would probably have been right around initial alpha release, it proudly told me "your version of this mod is 2.2, the most current version on the Nexus is 2.2, an update is available." And that stayed in for years. This time using NMM is the first time I have ever seen NMM not have this problem. Of course the base problem is actually still there, but at least it no longer presents a nonsensical message to the user.

 

NMM is supposedly a more "casual" mod manager than MO, but I've never understood that. Which is better for a casual user: Knowing exactly which mods are interacting with each other, or having to memorize that information and having to uninstall and reinstall each mod individually if you forget? Choosing between a mod being on or off, or choosing between on, off, or neither? One version number per mod that can have the current online version be ignored if there's an error or you don't want to update, or multiple version numbers per mod that don't actually check the right number and version checking that can only be completely turned off?

[D_ManXX2]

Was wondering if there is something in MO That make this part easier to handle, in skyrim there are allot of followers mods that add there own skeleton but is there a way to quickly update within MO itself ?? The reason i ask is that sometime they are BSA files witch also contain skeleton in them but they use older skeleton and if you use hdt you will actually crash allot of times due to the skeleton is not working correctly with hdt or is missing bones even though i already have the latest skeleton installed. 

 

But the real problem is most of these mods will also include there own skeleton in different directory. Making trouble shoot a real pain to manage.

[Varithina]

 

Took a look. Doesn't fix the issue unfortunately, but it does say there are notable problems with Win10. One of the recent updates must have screwed things up. Again. Still, nice to know someone's working on MO.

 

 

Hmm, somewhere in the github it does clearly state that its not got any bug fixes included, its just an update to deal with sse not working properly with it.

 

I would imagine when they sort things out about building it and such they will start with bug fixes, at least now, well for me anyway the overwrite folder works for both fallout 4 and sse, which it did not before so thats a plus.  Now all it really need is to get the ini files for both game to use the ones from the profiles rather than the ones in the documents location which it seems to do at present.

 

And like you say having sombody working on mo2 is nice, as having a monopoly on mod managers is a very bad idea.

[zippy57]

Was wondering if there is something in MO That make this part easier to handle, in skyrim there are allot of followers mods that add there own skeleton but is there a way to quickly update within MO itself ?? The reason i ask is that sometime they are BSA files witch also contain skeleton in them but they use older skeleton and if you use hdt you will actually crash allot of times due to the skeleton is not working correctly with hdt or is missing bones even though i already have the latest skeleton installed. 

 

But the real problem is most of these mods will also include there own skeleton in different directory. Making trouble shoot a real pain to manage.

As long as the skeleton you want is below the ones you don't in your mod order, you should be fine if those mods are overwriting the vanilla skeleton. If they're using custom skeletons, you'll have to either find out where that skeleton is and set up a mod folder in MO to place a copy of your intended skeleton there to override it or go into TESEdit and change the skeleton references to point at the correct skeleton.

[D_ManXX2]

That could pose a problem, several companions all uses different folders structure like the name of the mod itself and placed a skeleton in it. This will make trouble shoot a bigger problem especially if the mod is bsa format.

 

Thanks for the explanation.

[RitualClarity]

That could pose a problem, several companions all uses different folders structure like the name of the mod itself and placed a skeleton in it. This will make trouble shoot a bigger problem especially if the mod is bsa format.

 

Thanks for the explanation.

 

Are you using all the followers at the same time? If not then just package what you need up into one mod for each follower (or name them so you know) then just activate that/those files for that profile. Then those files will be available and work for that play through.

 

If you want to use all of them... then yes.. I believe what Zippy stated is correct. You'd have to rework all the follower mods to have a folder structure that fits properly for your collection where their assets are located in different sections based on the skeletons / bodies/ textures (if different ) etc. That is unless someone has a merged or combined skeleton that is compatible with all of them. (I doubt that.  )

 

What we really need is a nice body framework with the needed skeletons, and body types, hairs, eyes etc. All in one pack (AKA oblivion body whatever that mod is called ) Then the follower mods can access that framework and all them could work. You'd only need the armors or whatever added to that follower.

 

Problem with that is too many people and "permissions"

[Storms of Superior]

Well, I have to ask. Is there a way to force MO to work on a hard drive that doesn't have windows? Like a storage hard drive? Beyond Skyrim is starting beta testing soon, then there will be the full release of Bruma. I've been holding out for nearly three years for this, and I don't want to miss it because I didn't know how to force MO to work my way, if that's even possible.

 

Thanks. folks.

[Varithina]

Well, I have to ask. Is there a way to force MO to work on a hard drive that doesn't have windows? Like a storage hard drive? Beyond Skyrim is starting beta testing soon, then there will be the full release of Bruma. I've been holding out for nearly three years for this, and I don't want to miss it because I didn't know how to force MO to work my way, if that's even possible.

 

Thanks. folks.

 

mo1 has to be installed in the game directory for each game, so if you installed skyrim on your storage drive or wherever then yes it will work, my steam install is on its own hard drive, no windows on it at all that's installed on the solid state I use for the boot drive, though if you mean something like a usb/network drive it would likely be quite slow compared to a normal hard drive.

 

mo2 can be installed where ever you want it to, and it then points to the game directories using its settings, so you could point it to the storage drive, but be aware mo2 is in beta mode so it can be a bit, errm odd in how things work.

 

If you mean however a pc where windows is not installed at all then I think you are out of luck.

[Storms of Superior]

 

Well, I have to ask. Is there a way to force MO to work on a hard drive that doesn't have windows? Like a storage hard drive? Beyond Skyrim is starting beta testing soon, then there will be the full release of Bruma. I've been holding out for nearly three years for this, and I don't want to miss it because I didn't know how to force MO to work my way, if that's even possible.

 

Thanks. folks.

 

mo1 has to be installed in the game directory for each game, so if you installed skyrim on your storage drive or wherever then yes it will work, my steam install is on its own hard drive, no windows on it at all that's installed on the solid state I use for the boot drive, though if you mean something like a usb/network drive it would likely be quite slow compared to a normal hard drive.

 

mo2 can be installed where ever you want it to, and it then points to the game directories using its settings, so you could point it to the storage drive, but be aware mo2 is in beta mode so it can be a bit, errm odd in how things work.

 

If you mean however a pc where windows is not installed at all then I think you are out of luck.

 

 

So I have been installing MO in the wrong place all of this time? If I understand, MO needs to be in the Skyrim directory. That seems suspicious to me.

 

[zippy57]

mo1 has to be installed in the game directory for each game

This is inaccurate. MO1 can be installed pretty much wherever. I've never tried to install it on a different hard drive than the game, but it absolutely does not have to be installed within the game's directory.

[Storms of Superior]

 

mo1 has to be installed in the game directory for each game

This is inaccurate. MO1 can be installed pretty much wherever. I've never tried to install it on a different hard drive than the game, but it absolutely does not have to be installed within the game's directory.

 

So why would MO insist that it be installed in the Programs (x86)?

[Akzyra]

 

 

mo1 has to be installed in the game directory for each game

This is inaccurate. MO1 can be installed pretty much wherever. I've never tried to install it on a different hard drive than the game, but it absolutely does not have to be installed within the game's directory.

 

So why would MO insist that it be installed in the Programs (x86)?

 

 

Because defaults. Every installer assumes that path. What else should it  default to? "C:" Root? Your Users Folder? Documents?

For love of Talos: Don't install stuff into there if it needs files access and you don't want to restrict it.

"Do not install into there" list:

 - MO 1 and 2 (can be installed where-ever, but I recommend same drive and partition)

 - Game that you want to mod Save you the hassle and install Steam elsewhere, other games may profit as well, not just moddable ones.

 - Modding Tools like Bash, NMM, LOOT, ....

 

For anyone interested, My Setup:

 

 

SSD:

Steam for Skyrim and Fallout

MO and MO2 installs are all portable and one for each game, installed like this in root: "X:/ModOrganizer2 FO4/"

LOOT, WryeBash and some others as well.

 

3TB HDD

for all my other stuff, including a "Games Folder" with sub directories for Skyrim, Fallout and many other games.

Contains less used stuff where speed doesn't matter like Zipped ENBs or Manual Mod Downloads.

xEdit, BethINI, DynDOLOD for example

 

MO can change the Download Folder, it would be smart to move it to a HDD if the MO install is on a SSD.

Mods should be on the SSD, or your game will not benefit of the SSD (just the base game will).

 

 

[RitualClarity]

MO (version 32 bit) can be installed anywhere you want to install it. In the game folder, on an external drive, flash drive where ever you dam please. 

 

When starting it it will require you to select the game you want to manage. YOu will have to navigate to the drive and select the games .exe. If MO is outside of the game folder.

 

Now with the above being stated. If you run it from a slower drive (external in this case) undesirable results will occur. The game will not have the files in proper time. The game will be running at one speed and the files will be slower. It will be horrible. However if it is on a different drive that is as fast or faster than the game drive it should work fine. However some have indicated a few glitches here and there. I never experienced it. I had my games installed in one drive (SSD) and the MO folder in another (SSD) same type and speed and very little issues once the set up has occurred. However, personally I feel it is a bit more stable and responsive if installed in the actual game folder. 

 

It is strongly advised to install your game outside of the x86  program folder and to install MO inside that game folder where you see the games .exe. It helps with the set up and some of the third party installations and such. However if you are an advanced user you can or should be able to overcome those issues pretty easy by creating custom launcher if needed.  (not even sure you need that with the last version created by Tannin (again the 32 bit version never used the 64bit version) )

 

Hope that helps. I currently forget where the above info is explained (and in more detail) but it is out there somewhere. Perhaps on a STEPS forum. I did find the info when I researched the above question myself a year or so ago. 

[Wolborg]

 

 

mo1 has to be installed in the game directory for each game

This is inaccurate. MO1 can be installed pretty much wherever. I've never tried to install it on a different hard drive than the game, but it absolutely does not have to be installed within the game's directory.

 

So why would MO insist that it be installed in the Programs (x86)?

 

 

 

I doesn't. It may suggest it but that is because pretty much every installer proposes a default install location.

 

Secondly, you seem to be mixing up the game directory and the Program Files directory. It is actually recemmended to not install Skyrim in Program Files.

 

My Steam is not in Program Files and my Mod Organizer is in a directory completely different from the Skyrim directory. That is a living proof that it's possible. For that matter, I would never install MO in the Skyrim directory, firstly because I don't want to clutter it with non-vanilla items, secondly because I don't want to risk that the Steam artificial idiocy suddenly decides that MO doesn't belong there and deletes it along with all my mods.