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Skyrim AE for Beginners - V 3.1.0


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Posted (edited)
On 8/14/2024 at 2:49 AM, Kusoneko said:

Alright, the crashing in Dwemer locations is pretty much gone, the forgotten meshes were the main issue, followed by having to reinstall FSMP because idk why it was causing crashes but somehow stopped once reinstalled? It's weird. Now, I still get crashes, but this time, it's mentioning specifically "BSEffectShaderProperty" which is coincidentally mentioned in Simplicity of Snow's mod page as an issue in their "How to Patch" section:

 

Which tells me the issue and the fix but not the mod from which said .nif come from. Would be nice and useful if the crashlog at least mentioned which .nif it was looking at when it crashed, then I could try to find it in MO2's Data tab and identify which mod provides a nif with this issue in.

 

And unfortunately, the fast travel/carriage endless loading screens is not gone. :'c No idea what's causing this one at all though since the game just... seems to still be working fine but the loading screens just never end, I can even move the 3D models around and the tips change and all that, but even if I wait like 30 minutes it's still not loaded, and that's on an M.2 NVMe SSD, so there's really no reason for that besides the game having an issue with something but not crashing somehow and not loading either? DynDOLOD doesn't seem to be the issue this time, the map isn't fucky nor is it missing roads, so this time I think I've got that setup pretty much completed, so the issue has to be elsewhere.

Alright, scratch all of those issues off, turns out it's cause I got a specific "mod" that changes the SSE Engine Fixes config for specific cases where savegames get corrupted, unfortunately, that one also includes unnecessary disabling fixes like forcing the game to use the game's (very outdated and bad) memory manager instead of the OS default one or the one provided by SSE Engine Fixes, and a few other changes. I've gone into it and turned on all the fixes section, since some were turned off by that mod (why??) and turned back the memory manager on along with the scaleform allocator and somehow I had 0 crashes for several hours and could both fast travel and use carriages just fine. In fact only reason I stopped rn is cause I encountered a weird bug where Skyrim just stops sending sound to the audio device, but I recall that being a bug that has been there since way back on LE, and the fix back then was literally save => quit to desktop => relaunch game, presumably the fix hasn't changed so I'll go back in in a bit. It's a bit weird though about the crash log from earlier showing either FSMP or some BSEffectShaderProperty stuff when it crashed. Wonder why turning on those SSE Engine Fixes settings fix those when they seemingly shouldn't fix much of anything... on the other hand, the crash error is actually always "EXCEPTION_ACCESS_VIOLATION" or something like that, which even Microsoft's documentation says it's an issue of either attempting to access memory that has been freed or attempting to execute things in data-only no-execute memory locations. Might just be that the whole crashiness issue I was suffering from is *entirely* because Skyrim's baked in memory manager is utter garbage. Anyways, that's that issue presumably solved, unless it unfortunately comes back next time.

 

Completely unrelated issue but every time I launch the game, I have to go in Fertility Mode's settings to turn off the widget and turn it back on otherwise it won't show up, I'm not sure why. It's just annoying, mind you, not the end of the world, but if there's a fix for that I'd be happy to get it.

Edited by Kusoneko
Posted (edited)

@Aylis Okay, undeniable point made, you are completely in charge here.  It was only a gentle suggestion that became a minor criticism anyway...at least until you led off by editing the quote from my last post.  I'm half German myself, by the way, criticisms do not have to be taken personally. 

 

And, as far as getting to the actual point, I will definitely do what you are really asking and just stfu. 

 

Auf Wiedersehen, Liebling, es ist wirklich ein toller Leitfaden - aber nichts ist jemals perfekt.

Edited by Temphyx
Posted

@Kusoneko

Glad to hear this is solved.

 

Please remind me later (aka after the 3.0 update) to upload my config files too. Atm i don't really know if i have to do more changes to them.

Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, Temphyx said:

Yes, of course, and thank you.  As I said, I wasn't asking for myself and it will probably be quite some time before I ask for clarity for 'Beginners' again.  The thing is that this build isn't for beginners at all but because it has Beginner in the title, it attracts all sorts of newbies who have no idea what they are getting into.  They can spend weeks of their spare time crashing their game when all they really wanted was a decent looking Skyrim with sex mods (this is LL).  Now, if they stick it out long enough, they're going to find a great looking Skyrim with a small number of semi-functional sex mods - at least until the entire community gets behind  SLP+. Maybe next year.  Okay, I get it and that's not a terrible thing at all but it would not hurt anyone to be even a little bit more up front about what's required, what to expect and why some things are done the way they are.

 

  My apologies for the rant, but I've been watching this great forum's trend line for quite a few years. 

- All the Best to everyone here, especially our Doyen, the young Aylis.  May she live long and always prosper...


Are you expecting @Aylis to account for people who don't read instructions? How? 

And this modlist is pretty easy to install. I'd rate it a Beginners List as far as difficulty goes - PROVIDED you read the ALL of instructions..

Modding has always required some degree of troubleshooting and reading. Lots and lots of reading. If someone can't be bothered to read through the instructions properly, and research for himself when they run into issues thats on them. 

No one can account for every single issue every user could possibly run into. It's impossible and also unreasonable to expect that. You can't know what the user has done, what step he skipped, nor can you expect that all people will be honest about sticking to the instructions.

 

It's an impossibility. If the mod list is too difficult for someone, use a different list, or ask someone if they'd be willing to privately assist you via direct message.

I ran into tons of issues in the old modlist, and 99% of those issues were due to me deviating from this modlist. Mods I added on top of the list were causing issues. Modding comes down to what you would rather have in your game, some mods conflict with each other. Always have. 

Stop expecting @Aylis to account for what you want, this is their list. They're posting this as a service to the community, putting in days and weeks of work and effort into it, so you don't have to. If someone cant be bothered to even google to try and solve an issue themselves, they're probably not going to be able to get a stable game. Skyrim's engine is a strange beast, I could run the exact same modlist as someone else with different results as far as stability goes. 

Modding requires some effort and work on the user's part, tailoring it to what your hardware and software can handle.

Edited by monkinsane
clarification
Posted
5 hours ago, Kusoneko said:

Alright, scratch all of those issues off, turns out it's cause I got a specific "mod" that changes the SSE Engine Fixes config for specific cases where savegames get corrupted, unfortunately, that one also includes unnecessary disabling fixes like forcing the game to use the game's (very outdated and bad) memory manager instead of the OS default one or the one provided by SSE Engine Fixes, and a few other changes. I've gone into it and turned on all the fixes section, since some were turned off by that mod (why??) and turned back the memory manager on along with the scaleform allocator and somehow I had 0 crashes for several hours and could both fast travel and use carriages just fine. 


For the SSE Engine Fixes Save Game fixes - just set these 2 lines as below in enginefixes.toml:
under [Patches]:

 

MaxStdio = 8192                         # Sets the maximum number of open file handles (default 512), preventing the game from running out with large plugin counts (fixes false save corruption)

under [Experimental]:
 

SaveGameMaxSize = true                 # Expands the maximum uncompressed size of a save game from 64 MB to 128 MB# can fix "crash on save" issue in long-runnning saves

Those are the only lines required for the Save Corruption and crash on save fixes.

I'm always wary of people's complete ini files for skse plugins - especially bugfix plugins as you don't know what else they changed.

Posted

@KusonekoI do wish you the best as you finalize your set up.  I have a high (very high) graphics set up.  I mention this only as I believe there are simply some limitations with this game.  Fast traveling to an undiscovered city which has been heavily modified could overwhelm my set up.  I don't crash any more fast traveling to discovered locations/cities.  Zero.  I occasionally crash traveling to a new city location.  Reload and fast travel again without issue.  Why I think it is my set up.  The game simply couldn't load it all.  The location appears and then crashes.  Just a silly girl opinion.  Take care and good luck.

Posted

@monkinsane wrote: Are you expecting @Aylis to account for people who don't read instructions?

 

No.

 

This is the same answer my original request/question could have reasonably received. That post was a very minor thing: could a very few lines of clarification be added to the sea of zeroed BS files.  What I got back was biting sarcasm, condescension, lecturing and a blizzard of outraged misunderstanding.  If somewhere in there I happened to express an unpopular opinion, then keep shooting at me.  Among other things, I am a teacher and a teacher's first concern is giving the student every opportunity to understand; it's never just about "go do your damn homework".  This has been a healthy reminder of the advantages of backing away from the keyboard, stepping outside, and talking to real people who care about real life.  Something I will (again) do right now.

- peace

Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Temphyx said:

@monkinsane wrote: Are you expecting @Aylis to account for people who don't read instructions?

 

No.

 

This is the same answer my original request/question could have reasonably received. That post was a very minor thing: could a very few lines of clarification be added to the sea of zeroed BS files.  What I got back was biting sarcasm, condescension, lecturing and a blizzard of outraged misunderstanding.  If somewhere in there I happened to express an unpopular opinion, then keep shooting at me.  Among other things, I am a teacher and a teacher's first concern is giving the student every opportunity to understand; it's never just about "go do your damn homework".  This has been a healthy reminder of the advantages of backing away from the keyboard, stepping outside, and talking to real people who care about real life.  Something I will (again) do right now.

- peace


Well, 

My and your definition of a beginners list clearly differ. 

I suggest noobs actually watch a basic tutorial on modding skyrim first to understand the concepts and different tools involved.  EDUCATE Themselves instead of expecting to be spoonfed (without comprehension I might add - don't get me started on this topic) like they would in school. 

Here's a playlist guide on modding skyrim - explaining the tools etc... neccecary and the concepts. For example: Zeroed BS files only confuse people because the don't know what bodyslide is and what it does, and really should take the minimum effort and take a bit of initiative to do a bit of research  themselves. 

 

Spoiler

 



Many have installed this list successfully, and I'd bet a lot of them arent experts in modding skyrim - they googled when they didn't understand something. Hell, I did that for DynDOLOD since I last worked with it in LE and it's been a while, and I wanted to switch to Dyndolod NG / Dyndolod 3.0 Alpha to take advantage of Large Reference thingy. (I was following the old list at the time - which had perfect instructions for the STABLE branch of DynDOLOD)

Expecting a modlist to teach people the ins and outs of modding skyrim is unreasonable - there are plenty of guides like that allready.

But hey, that's my view on it.  I expect people to take a bit of initiative themselves as opposed to expecting to be spoonfed.

I'm considering this the end of discussion - as I don't think this is relevant to the main modlist. 

Edited by monkinsane
Posted
13 minutes ago, Simpossible_xx said:

What is a Nemesis and why don't we use FNIS in this guide? Are mods, that require FNIS, complatible with Nemesis?

 

FNIS and Nemesis are tools to update/enable different animations in Skyrim.  The current guide is using the newly developed Pandora instead. 

 

FNIS is the original - works with almost everything except perhaps some newer stuff - but without hacks, has relatively low animation limits.  Nemesis is newer and fasterish(?), but doesn't support creature animations, and isn't really being developed anymore (and is crash prone).

Pandora is apparently much faster, and works with more than Nemesis (including creature animations) - but has been incompatible with various mods.  Is in active development though, so could eventually improve on the compatibility aspect.

 

Personally I've stuck with FNIS alone, as it has full compatibility with the mods I use.. but I don't use all the animation replacers that the guide includes (like attack and directional movement and such).  ZAZ is one of the commonly argued make-or-break compatibility limitations with Pandora, as it does some scripting with animations that Pandora just doesn't work well with.  I saw the guide has a ZAZ patch specifically, but not sure if it fully covers what it needs to for mods to call ZAZ properly - I've seen comments suggesting it doesn't... but can't comment on it personally.

 

Any mod that modifies/adds/replaces animations requires a re-running of one of these tools, otherwise T-posing will happen with any models effected by the animation mismatch in the system (male/female/creature).

Posted
3 minutes ago, Bigglsby said:

 

FNIS and Nemesis are tools to update/enable different animations in Skyrim.  The current guide is using the newly developed Pandora instead. 

 

FNIS is the original - works with almost everything except perhaps some newer stuff - but without hacks, has relatively low animation limits.  Nemesis is newer and fasterish(?), but doesn't support creature animations, and isn't really being developed anymore (and is crash prone).

Pandora is apparently much faster, and works with more than Nemesis (including creature animations) - but has been incompatible with various mods.  Is in active development though, so could eventually improve on the compatibility aspect.

 

Personally I've stuck with FNIS alone, as it has full compatibility with the mods I use.. but I don't use all the animation replacers that the guide includes (like attack and directional movement and such).  ZAZ is one of the commonly argued make-or-break compatibility limitations with Pandora, as it does some scripting with animations that Pandora just doesn't work well with.  I saw the guide has a ZAZ patch specifically, but not sure if it fully covers what it needs to for mods to call ZAZ properly - I've seen comments suggesting it doesn't... but can't comment on it personally.

 

Any mod that modifies/adds/replaces animations requires a re-running of one of these tools, otherwise T-posing will happen with any models effected by the animation mismatch in the system (male/female/creature).

Thank you!

 

I've been looking through the "Animations" and "Sex mods" categories and didn't find FNIS nor Nemesis/Pandora downloads which why I'm a bit confused. They are like core frameworks/tools that should be installed in the first place, so when should I have to install them?

 

I may want to use creature animations and also other animations from LL/Nexus that have FNIS in requirements, so I believe I should pick the FNIS, right?

Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, Simpossible_xx said:

Thank you!

 

I've been looking through the "Animations" and "Sex mods" categories and didn't find FNIS nor Nemesis/Pandora downloads which why I'm a bit confused. They are like core frameworks/tools that should be installed in the first place, so when should I have to install them?

 

I may want to use creature animations and also other animations from LL/Nexus that have FNIS in requirements, so I believe I should pick the FNIS, right?


There may be some animations in the modlist that require a newer Tool like Pandora or Nemesis. 

I'm still on the old list, and use both FNIS & Nemesis together, with Nemesis's output overwriting FNIS's . The idea behind both Nemesis and Pandora is to replace FNIS. But neither re quite there yet, and Nemesis's author seems to have abandoned the project.

Not sure if Pandora can run alongside FNIS like Nemesis can, but if it can I'd do it  that way. So FNIS output catches anything Pandora misses. (Or have FNIS handle ZAZ's Animations, and pandora the rest. This would be a manual process though, you'd have to manually copy the ZAZ animations out of FNIS's output directory and place them in a seperate mod that loads after Pandora's output. Thiss is OC if they can co-exist FNIS & Pandora)

As a long-time Skyrim modder - I'm hesitant to ditch FNIS completely, but that may be purely outta "If it ain't broke, dont fix it" mentality LOL

Edited by monkinsane
Posted

I can't seem to get any output files in my overwrite regarding Pandora, as such i cannot finish the last finish steps, kinda bugs me out as it recognizes the animations :/

Posted
3 hours ago, Simpossible_xx said:

so when should I have to install them?

They are in the Final section :)

The beauty is that Pandora is very likely to replace both FNIS and nemesis.

iirc, even backwards compatible, and only takes like 5 seconds for thousands of animations where nemesis or FNIS would take minutes, if they didn't crash.

 

 

Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Luzifer45 said:

I can't seem to get any output files in my overwrite regarding Pandora, as such i cannot finish the last finish steps, kinda bugs me out as it recognizes the animations :/

If you have an output folder they get automatically placed there.

 

You did check the boxes in the list, right?

 

 

@monkinsane

So far i had no issues with using 'Pandora' alone (knocks on wood).

 

And i was also very hesitant to ditch FNIS. 

__________________________________________________

 

Collecting links:

 

Interesting to see that i already use most of them:

Spoiler

So i'm not the only one trying to add realism to the game... ;)

 

Edited by Aylis
Posted
On 8/15/2024 at 8:30 AM, Aylis said:

@Kusoneko

Glad to hear this is solved.

 

Please remind me later (aka after the 3.0 update) to upload my config files too. Atm i don't really know if i have to do more changes to them.

Gah, I screamed victory too early, apparently. For the most part it's fixed but it still crashes every once in a while, and with the same exact issues, if I just launch the game:

- hdtsmp64.dll is the only thing mentioned besides Skyrim and Windows's ntdll

If I reinstall FSMP before launching the game:

- BSLightingShaderProperty or BSEffectShaderProperty crash, with a mention to Engine Fixes.dll.

 

There's an issue somewhere in my setup between these 2 and they just throw the ball around, apparently. I do not know why FSMP must be reinstalled on every launch to avoid it's specific crash though. According to the many many posts on the FSMP page, they seem to imply that the fix to that is to either replace the FSMP MCM esp with the old one from the FSMPM mod, or to remove it entirely. Tried both when I finally crash, none of them worked, it just made it crash faster ironically. It's a little annoying having to reinstall FSMP every time, but I guess I can live with it if there's no other functioning fix for it.

 

Unrelated to this, but a select few NPCs, specifically Lydia, occasionally have a black face, I'm aware we're supposed to have a fix for it somewhere already but looking up "black" in the filter for MO2's modlist only brings up the fix for Infantry Armor's black face bug, not sure if there was another one somewhere that I missed or that comes included in some other mod? Regardless I appear to be having that bug now. I wonder if I missed something else, considering I'd somehow missed the Dwemer meshes the other day.

 

Also unrelated, I somehow got a pet using Ordinator's Speak With Animals feature a while back, it died somehow but Ordinator keeps spamming "Your Companion teleported to you" every 5 seconds or so, which it's fine when there's an actual companion but since it's dead that's mildly annoying, I guess? Not sure if I missed something or there's a hidden quest flag or something to tell it to "I have no more pet rn"?

Posted
8 hours ago, Aylis said:

I@monkinsane

So far i had no issues with using 'Pandora' alone (knocks on wood).

 

And i was also very hesitant to ditch FNIS. 


Doe you use ZAZ in your current game? I heard there are some issues with Pandora & ZAZ.

I have ZAZ in my current LO, reason I ask.

Posted

@Kusoneko

There was something about preload and engine fixes if i remember correctly.

 

If they are fine after a reload then it is a load issue. Otherwise there's a different problem (most likely LO related).

 

No idea about the creatures. Have you tried taming another one? 

 

'Collecting Links' is the stage before an update. The mods in there might still change...

 

 

@monkinsane

Yes, and no issues so far.

 

Posted (edited)

Yep, i did check the boxes, Pandora just does not generate anything into overwrite or Pandora Output even if set as a executable in MO2, when loaded into the game, no animation is being played but the animations themselves are recognized, they basically just T-Pose / A-Pose. I dunno what else to do atp, as i sat yesterday just scratching my head and even trying it with FNIS + Nemesis as an alternative, nothing seems to be making it work. ( I did set the paths right, afaik. My mate also looked over it and could not find any reason as to why it just does not generate anything into OW or PO)

Edited by Luzifer45
to clarify
Posted

@Luzifer45

It should look like the left side when you start and once you're done it should look like on the right.

Spoiler

Unbenannt.png.dd940ac00abcc4121dc42e89dcc64c3d.png

I got a few more mods installed, but it should look close to that.

Posted (edited)

Update 2.9.8

Filling gaps in the guide.

 

Mods to REMOVE

 

Mods to ADD

Spoiler

Gameplay - Anatomy

OBody Next Generation - Configuration (see 'Files')

     My interpretation how the bodyslides should be distributed. 

3BA - Zeroed Preset (see 'Files')

     I created this oine to have a zeroed 3BA preset.

3BA - Chubby Bodyslide preset

3BA - Natural Bodyslide preset

3BA - Ordinary Bodyslide preset

3BA - Petite and Realistic Bodyslide Preset

3BA - SlimFantasy Bodyslide Preset

 

Gameplay - Foundation

Precision Creatures

 

Gameplay - General

Boats - Operational Animated Travel

Legacy of the Dragonborn - C.O.I.N. Patch

No NPC Projectile Dodge

 

Gameplay - Magic

Dark Hierophant Magic

Holy Templar Magic

VFX - Dragon Breath

VFX - Fire

VFX - Frost

VFX - Lightning

 

Gameplay - Animations

Disable Turn Animation

Dynamic Activation Key

Sleeping NPCs Detector

True Directional Movement - Modernized Third Person Gameplay

Don't sheathe bound weapons (DAR)

Draw Sheathe Animations (Nemesis)

Dynamic Crafting Animations

Dynamic Torch Idle Animations

Unique Border Gates Fixes - EVG Animated Traversal

Divines Prayer Animations

Finally First Person Magic Animation

First Person Animation Teleport Bug Fix

     Use this only if you run into problems.

Immersive Interactions - Animated Actions (Nemesis)

Malignis Animations - Random Idles Talk Barter

Malignis Animations - Random Idles Talk Barter for NPC

NPC - Eating Animation Fixes

Simple Sit Idle Animation

Subtle Feminine Stagger Animation (OAR)

Take a Seat (OAR)

Take a Nap - Sleep on Chairs (OAR)

 

Gameplay - Combat Animations

Goetia - Conditional Shouts

Goetia - Enchanted Staves

Goetia - Magic Spell Casting

Goetia - Sneak Magic

Vanargand - Dual Wield Sneak Strikes

Vanargand - Sword Dual Wield Moveset

 

Edited by Aylis
  • Aylis changed the title to Skyrim AE for Beginners - V 2.9.8 (3BA / HDT-SMP / HPH) WIP
Posted
5 hours ago, Aylis said:

@Luzifer45

It should look like the left side when you start and once you're done it should look like on the right.

  Hide contents

Unbenannt.png.dd940ac00abcc4121dc42e89dcc64c3d.png

I got a few more mods installed, but it should look close to that.



I got the same issue when I tried to switch to Pandora, 

The only items shown in the UI is Pandora Base and XPMSE Patch for Pandora. No animations generated when run.

I'll actually put some effort into solving this once I switch to the New modlist (Provided the issue is still there on installing the new modlist). Gonna keep on using FNIS + Nemesis for now.

Posted
22 hours ago, Kusoneko said:

Unrelated to this, but a select few NPCs, specifically Lydia, occasionally have a black face, I'm aware we're supposed to have a fix for it somewhere already but looking up "black" in the filter for MO2's modlist only brings up the fix for Infantry Armor's black face bug, not sure if there was another one somewhere that I missed or that comes included in some other mod? Regardless I appear to be having that bug now. I wonder if I missed something else, considering I'd somehow missed the Dwemer meshes the other day.

 
@Kusoneko Here you go: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/42441

This fixes the black face everywhere (or more accurately, hides the issue). Costs a few fps though.

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