The current controversy and anger of the community with the new Wicked Whims update

[sirfappington2]

Oh so he did go full scumbag and delete all negative comments/reviews.

 

What's the point then in a review system if the guy can just delete reviews he doesn't like?

 

What a joke.

[ioawdfv]

20 minutes ago, sirfappington2 said:

Oh so he did go full scumbag and delete all negative comments/reviews.

 

What's the point then in a review system if the guy can just delete reviews he doesn't like?

 

What a joke.

You know what the funny thing happened right now?

The thread itself is gone now (for now?/not sure what happened).

[Pantera2]

TD just needs to grow up, point blank. They've gone to the point of not only being hypocritical but illegal defamation. I'm so tired of all the drama and just never supporting them again.

[LavenderCat]

CN: *willingly admits to making mistakes and doing wrong in the past, but having learned and moved on from it*

TD: *deletes things that hurt their feelings or call their motives into question*

 

 

Edit:

 

Edited August 7, 2022 by LavenderCat

[Mr Netorare]

5 minutes ago, LavenderCat said:

CN: *willingly admits to making mistakes and doing wrong in the past, but having learned and moved on from it*

TD: *deletes things that hurt their feelings or call their motives into question*

Sigh even China feels more confy now than LL forums fr

[ioawdfv]

Ok, the WW thread is back.

They must have done something for some amount of time.

[SoCalExile]

4 minutes ago, ioawdfv said:

Ok, the WW thread is back.

They must have done something for some amount of time.

 

They purged all the negative posts. You know, to let the community know their concerns are top priority. 

[DoctaSax]

1 hour ago, Wyatt1515 said:

so I guess I have been banned just for mentioning the review purge. pretty lame I came to trust this site over time before I even had an account. It always had smart people who were open minded and willing to help with skyrim and other games. that trust is kinda gone you can’t just delete 80 plus reviews at once. Shady to say the least. 

 

If you can post here, you're clearly not banned.

 

1 hour ago, CypherDivine said:

Now the whole download thread is gone, all 1013 pages....

 

54 minutes ago, ioawdfv said:

You know what the funny thing happened right now?

The thread itself is gone now (for now?/not sure what happened).

 

The file page, support thread and reviews generated so many reports from both sides reporting each other's conduct that an automatic moderation feature of the site kicked in and hid the thread. The feature would normally only occur for an upload or post that is so illegal that dozens of people would report it in short notice and is meant to simply hide that until a moderator drops in and has a look at it. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that 1) it happened, and 2) there's conspiracy nonsense about it.

 

1 hour ago, SoCalExile said:

What a lack of integrity. 

 

CN at least expresses regret and has moved on from his fuckups. WW/LL keeps trying to bury them for filthy lucre. 

 

Yes, the filthy lucre. Can't get enough of it. Which is why we monitor this nonsense all week for no pay.

 

1 hour ago, sirfappington2 said:

Oh so he did go full scumbag and delete all negative comments/reviews.

 

What's the point then in a review system if the guy can just delete reviews he doesn't like?

 

What a joke.

 

LL staff deleted some of those reviews. They weren't reviews to begin with, and most were in breach of our rule 1. Which, as I pointed out earlier in the thread, is something we believe in. Every modder on LL is protected by it, even the ones you don't like. We don't tolerate any pitchforked mob running a modder out of here with insults, wild accusations, and displays of entitlement.

 

It seems as if it's become the purpose of this thread to do exactly that. I suggest a change of course.

[LavenderCat]

8 minutes ago, DoctaSax said:

LL staff deleted some of those reviews. They weren't reviews to begin with, and most were in breach of our rule 1. Which, as I pointed out earlier in the thread, is something we believe in. Every modder on LL is protected by it, even the ones you don't like. We don't tolerate any pitchforked mob running a modder out of here with insults, wild accusations, and displays of entitlement.

So, you have proof that CN stole code from TD?

I'd really like to see it, it's something I've been itching to see since finding out about this feud! To be honest, I'm going a little crazy and feeling like a broken record asking for it all the time. Not trying to be a bother, just want some actual evidence that can't be dismissed as "it was edited" or "that's so old", you get me?

[SoCalExile]

14 minutes ago, DoctaSax said:

 

If you can post here, you're clearly not banned.

 

 

 

The file page, support thread and reviews generated so many reports from both sides reporting each other's conduct that an automatic moderation feature of the site kicked in and hid the thread. The feature would normally only occur for an upload or post that is so illegal that dozens of people would report it in short notice and is meant to simply hide that until a moderator drops in and has a look at it. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that 1) it happened, and 2) there's conspiracy nonsense about it.

 

 

Yes, the filthy lucre. Can't get enough of it. Which is why we monitor this nonsense all week for no pay.

 

 

LL staff deleted some of those reviews. They weren't reviews to begin with, and most were in breach of our rule 1. Which, as I pointed out earlier in the thread, is something we believe in. Every modder on LL is protected by it, even the ones you don't like. We don't tolerate any pitchforked mob running a modder out of here with insults, wild accusations, and displays of entitlement.

 

It seems as if it's become the purpose of this thread to do exactly that. I suggest a change of course.

 

Rule 1: "Meaning if you don't like the way a mod is going, don't be a jerk about it, they can take the mod in whatever direction they want. Don't like it? Then make your own release and put the work in yourself. Find a bug or issue that needs to be fixed? Don't be a jerk about it and raise your concerns and feedback in a constructive manner."

Not all those reviews were rude. Many of them were honest feedback meant to let the author know their feelings. It isn't right to delete ALL negative reviews in this case and block people from reviewing again. That's showing contempt for the fans and favor for someone who makes A LOT of money paywalling his mod against EA policy. 

 

As for making another mod, there is one, it's not tied to any pedo stuff despite what some here say. The author has expressed remorse and moved on from that, how about allowing it to be hosted?

Apologies for my comment being harsh towards LL.  I'll encourage you to not takes the same bad practices from social media of deleting even constructive criticism and discussion as it is a short-term gain with long term-consequences if the fans go elsewhere for reliable mods. 

 

Edited August 7, 2022 by SoCalExile

[Wyatt1515]

you’re right I wasn’t banned the whole page disappeared for a bit and when I looked up the error code it said something about not having permission. Sorry jumping to conclusions but you still can’t delete 80 of the 180 reviews. 

[DoctaSax]

16 minutes ago, LavenderCat said:

So, you have proof that CN stole code from TD?

 

I don't see how this has anything to do with the purpose of the thread, but yes. It was an extensive dossier and both Ashal and I vetted it and found it convincing.

 

The entire DD v WW thing has nothing to do with the WW update, and the fact it keeps being brought back to that is, to me, a sign of brigading. Also why we considered the influx of 1-star reviews to be suspicious. So I'm not inclined to stretch any of that tribal stuff out further by seeing dozens of more pages arguing over the evidence. Copyright infraction is not a situation where we play the prosecution trying to convince a jury of your peers.  Evidence is presented to us, and we decide if we remove content or accept the liability for letting it stay.

 

20 minutes ago, SoCalExile said:

The author has expressed remorse and moved on from that, how about allowing it to be hosted?

 

His confession thread doesn't cover the reason he was barred from uploading here, and comes with "Save a screenshot or archive if you want. I'm sure the moderators will probably delete it anyways, Turbodriver and Deaderpool get away with everything" This, to me, does not express remorse or moving on, rather the opposite.

[SoCalExile]

10 minutes ago, DoctaSax said:

 

I don't see how this has anything to do with the purpose of the thread, but yes. It was an extensive dossier and both Ashal and I vetted it and found it convincing.

 

The entire DD v WW thing has nothing to do with the WW update, and the fact it keeps being brought back to that is, to me, a sign of brigading. Also why we considered the influx of 1-star reviews to be suspicious. So I'm not inclined to stretch any of that tribal stuff out further by seeing dozens of more pages arguing over the evidence. Copyright infraction is not a situation where we play the prosecution trying to convince a jury of your peers.  Evidence is presented to us, and we decide if we remove content or accept the liability for letting it stay.

 

 

His confession thread doesn't cover the reason he was barred from uploading here, and comes with "Save a screenshot or archive if you want. I'm sure the moderators will probably delete it anyways, Turbodriver and Deaderpool get away with everything" This, to me, does not express remorse or moving on, rather the opposite.

 

In the evidence provided by TD for copyright seems to be circumstantial; no actual code of DD plagiarizing WW was provided (that I've seen from TD's document). If he means the CNWW stuff, that's dead and he needs to go after the current maintainers (with actual evidence). 

As far as the confession, he's remorseful over his past projects. As for the drama it's really from both sides as Turbodriver published and edits a document accusing CN of past and current wrongs. It's not all one sided. The opportunity is here for both sides to bury the hatchet and LL to benefit from expanding it's catalog. 

 

 

Edited August 7, 2022 by SoCalExile

[LavenderCat]

25 minutes ago, DoctaSax said:

I don't see how this has anything to do with the purpose of the thread, but yes. It was an extensive dossier and both Ashal and I vetted it and found it convincing.

You're right that it doesn't have anything to do with this thread, but, again, I have been asking to see the code so I can make my own decision and allow others to do the same; but TD refuses to give anyone the code, so I'm just throwing it out there because I want to see it for my own sake. Not everyone is going to find it as convincing as TD or all of you do, and I think it's best for people to make their own informed choices.

25 minutes ago, DoctaSax said:

His confession thread doesn't cover the reason he was barred from uploading here, and comes with "Save a screenshot or archive if you want. I'm sure the moderators will probably delete it anyways, Turbodriver and Deaderpool get away with everything" This, to me, does not express remorse or moving on, rather the opposite.

What was the official reason that he was barred from uploading?

As for his comment at the end, it reads as someone who is bitter and done with all this and has had enough. It reads like someone who is at the end of their rope and just wants the other parties to shut up and leave them alone; which is understandable as at least one of them is dedicating a lot of time to going after him instead of the actual ATF modders who are keeping their "addon" up-to-date with WW/MCCC.

 

I'm not trying to be obstreperous or recalcitrant, I'm just trying to provide an outside perspective.
From what I have seen: Mistakes have been made, people are letting their emotions fly, and others are being pushed to the breaking point. It's all very confusing and I'm being told "Don't think about it, just listen to us over them" for no reason that I can clearly discern, and it is getting frustrating.

Everyone keeps talking about stolen code, yet when I ask to see it I get blocked or ignored, or told that I don't deserve to look at it because I could allegedly pirate it/modify it. Truth is, I know how to read code, but I'm utterly hopeless with writing it.

Edited August 7, 2022 by LavenderCat

[Ashzie]

As someone who agrees, this whole Drama sprouted into a personal vendetta. One person expresses remorse and genuine regret while the other holds grudges and still goes out of their way to make a scene about mods that are no longer maintained by the targetted person 

 

- Elec Man on discord. 

 

This is just one of my accs I use to download the mods. Might make an official acc. 

 

If DD got taken down from stolen code then why is the translations still up? I don't think TD should be on about stealing code. 

 

As EA owns the original game, and WW is adding onto it. By that logic TD is stealing code himself. 

[IfYouOnlyKnewMe]

37 minutes ago, LavenderCat said:

You're right that it doesn't have anything to do with this thread, but, again, I have been asking to see the code so I can make my own decision and allow others to do the same; but TD refuses to give anyone the code, so I'm just throwing it out there because I want to see it for my own sake. Not everyone is going to find it as convincing as TD or all of you do, and I think it's best for people to make their own informed choices.

What was the official reason that he was barred from uploading?

As for his comment at the end, it reads as someone who is bitter and done with all this and has had enough. It reads like someone who is at the end of their rope and just wants the other parties to shut up and leave them alone; which is understandable as at least one of them is dedicating a lot of time to going after him instead of the actual ATF modders who are keeping their "addon" up-to-date with WW/MCCC.

 

I'm not trying to be obstreperous or recalcitrant, I'm just trying to provide an outside perspective.
From what I have seen: Mistakes have been made, people are letting their emotions fly, and others are being pushed to the breaking point. It's all very confusing and I'm being told "Don't think about it, just listen to us over them" for no reason that I can clearly discern, and it is getting frustrating.

Everyone keeps talking about stolen code, yet when I ask to see it I get blocked or ignored, or told that I don't deserve to look at it because I could allegedly pirate it/modify it. Truth is, I know how to read code, but I'm utterly hopeless with writing it.

Devious Desires, at the beginning, was merely an addon to Wicked Whims. I had announced (probably a little too early) that I had planned to split it into its own thing. It was a fourth brained play to have reported "stolen code" when Turbodriver did. I had already made the announcement I was splitting off from Wicked Whims with Devious Desires to be its own thing and was in the middle of overhauling it completely when I got banned. Of course a lot of the code was the same or similar, as I was overhauling it to get rid of all of that. The code for Devious Desires now doesn't even resemble anything in Wicked Whims.. If I had only released my overhaul a week sooner or if I didn't announce I was separating before actually separating, the stolen code thing wouldn't have even been a thing. I finished the complete overhaul literally like half a week to a week after Devious Desires was taken down from LL and I was banned for entire year.

 

Long before the "stolen code" thing for Devious Desires, I had also attempted to release the very first version of S4CL. It contained something called "CommonSim" which resembled Turbodrivers "Turbosim" a little too closely. Yeah, I wasn't the brightest tool in the shed back then. Of course after that, I started S4CL over from scratch because I realized how stupid I was. You can even see the very first NEW commit I have in the S4CL repository today. Pretty much the week after the first iteration of S4CL got taken down. I also sent an apology letter to Turbodriver about my mistake. Little did I know that apology letter would be used against me as "proof" for the Devious Desires "stolen code" thing. Even though the two were completely unrelated. Obviously I couldn't have sent an "apology" to Turbodriver about Devious Desires being similar, because I was banned. You can't send messages while banned. (Unless an Administrator does it using your account)

(Sorry for going off topic a little bit)

Edited August 7, 2022 by HeWhoCannotBeNamed

[LavenderCat]

1 hour ago, HeWhoCannotBeNamed said:

It contained something called "CommonSim" which resembled Turbodrivers "Turbosim" a little too closely.

So you're telling me, two mods that had similar functions also cad similar calls in them?

*sarcasm* egad! You thief!

No, but in all seriousness, having a call that resembles a call used by a different person isn't that surprising. Code is very firm in its rules (especially python which is based on java) so similarities are bound to happen.

But, getting back on point: even if your code look similar, that's still not really code theft. In order for it to be code theft, you'd have to have changed nothing and instead claim TD's code as your own.
Using their code as a reference isn't code theft. If it is, then I'm guilty of it too (took coding in college, final for the class was me making a text-based game inspired by Corruption of Champions, but 100 times more simple. I heavily referenced the pre-made and incomplete code provided by the book, most likely more than you did TD's code.)

[SysGhost]

2 hours ago, HeWhoCannotBeNamed said:

Devious Desires, at the beginning, was merely an addon to Wicked Whims. I had announced (probably a little too early) that I had planned to split it into its own thing. It was a fourth brained play to have reported "stolen code" when Turbodriver did. I had already made the announcement I was splitting off from Wicked Whims with Devious Desires to be its own thing and was in the middle of overhauling it completely when I got banned. Of course a lot of the code was the same or similar, as I was overhauling it to get rid of all of that. The code for Devious Desires now doesn't even resemble anything in Wicked Whims.. If I had only released my overhaul a week sooner or if I didn't announce I was separating before actually separating, the stolen code thing wouldn't have even been a thing. I finished the complete overhaul literally like half a week to a week after Devious Desires was taken down from LL and I was banned for entire year.

 

Long before the "stolen code" thing for Devious Desires, I had also attempted to release the very first version of S4CL. It contained something called "CommonSim" which resembled Turbodrivers "Turbosim" a little too closely. Yeah, I wasn't the brightest tool in the shed back then. Of course after that, I started S4CL over from scratch because I realized how stupid I was. You can even see the very first NEW commit I have in the S4CL repository today. Pretty much the week after the first iteration of S4CL got taken down. I also sent an apology letter to Turbodriver about my mistake. Little did I know that apology letter would be used against me as "proof" for the Devious Desires "stolen code" thing. Even though the two were completely unrelated. Obviously I couldn't have sent an "apology" to Turbodriver about Devious Desires being similar, because I was banned. You can't send messages while banned. (Unless an Administrator does it using your account)

(Sorry for going off topic a little bit)

You know man. Despite the whole WW vs DD situation, or CN vs TD and dispite of what LL moderators have said/done.

I must say, mad respect for actualy having the guts to confess something you're not proud of and trying to move on!

Honestly something TD could lear from

[SysGhost]

4 hours ago, DoctaSax said:

LL staff deleted some of those reviews. They weren't reviews to begin with, and most were in breach of our rule 1. Which, as I pointed out earlier in the thread, is something we believe in. Every modder on LL is protected by it, even the ones you don't like. We don't tolerate any pitchforked mob running a modder out of here with insults, wild accusations, and displays of entitlement.

No offence, but literally every review from the past days that is not positive is gone, also the ones that were well structured and relatively polite.

I get that some were breaking rules, but there also were a bunch that seemed fine. So why delete everything that is not a 5star?

[Guest]

So this mod changed something what a lot off people consider a key feature, are upset about the way it was handled and expressed concern, all those reviews get removed, including the constructive ones, I checked webarchive and perfectly normal comments were removed, but the other reviews, with good rating stay up, even if they have nothing to add besides wining how people are upset. Atleast removes these reviews as well, as they add nothing and then atleast it seems like you are neutral on the topic. Other then that I agree with a lot off the arguments of topic starter.

 

Also with the current EA rules about permapaywalls, TD is still permapaywalling his patreon version, and this does add some very nice features like simhub, i find having it key to make portrets shots with a free camera for my legacy family, put them in a family pose and take a photo. Is LL going to adress this at all, since permawalling is againt the rules of EA?  Or are we all ok with that, because a portion of the mod is free. It seems to me if we all have to abide to all the rules he should 2. 

[TLayer]

It doesn't matter if TURBO is a hypocrite or not. I'm sure you have your thoughts now, but that won't matter with time.
The only question is whether to use his mods or not, Some of my country users have switched to DD.
There was a mass Patoreon account ban in my country not long ago.



Also, the illustration here includes an email from Patreon warning him about the size of his breasts, eyes, etc.



Also, in my country, when you ask a programmer to do something, there is no place that will do it for $5.
Patreon is only an offering to thank the author...

[SysGhost]

23 minutes ago, TLayer said:

It doesn't matter if TURBO is a hypocrite or not. I'm sure you have your thoughts now, but that won't matter with time.
The only question is whether to use his mods or not, Some of my country users have switched to DD.
There was a mass Patoreon account ban in my country not long ago.



Also, the illustration here includes an email from Patreon warning him about the size of his breasts, eyes, etc.



Also, in my country, when you ask a programmer to do something, there is no place that will do it for $5.
Patreon is only an offering to thank the author...

Patreon is indeed very strict, and not always for the good. I do remember a year or two ago there was this artists I supported that was being taken down, according to patreon he was promoting cp, wich is funny cause he never did. He never even drew anything R34/porn related and also never drew canonically underage characters for this exact reason (he mostely made OC's and claimed they were always 18+). This kinda highlighted for me that patreon takes no risks in protecting it's platform, and that some of their deffinitions of what is and is not a minor are a bit on the "Wait what?" side (like for example breast-size wiche varies greatly from person to person (female)).

 

The thing with WW is though, I've been digging through some archives and never found images, only short gifs of new features wich 9 out of 10 times didn't even contain sims (now this was an archive, so it could be missing somethings). So that kinda bakes the question, why would they go after TD now? After years of it being ok?

 

Last a small thing about you're last sentence. Developing WW is literaly TD's job by now, so while I totaly understand not doing something because one or two people asked it and especialy when it's just a side hobby, but that is not realy the case here. So I'm not on his patreon, but from what I've heard also the patreons are not all too happy with this sudden change (again this from hearing other people who claim to be on there talking). And when these people are literaly your rent payment.. I think it's only fair to atleast aknowlege them.

[Ashal]

1 hour ago, Amarex said:

So this mod changed something what a lot off people consider a key feature, are upset about the way it was handled and expressed concern, all those reviews get removed, including the constructive ones, I checked webarchive and perfectly normal comments were removed, but the other reviews, with good rating stay up, even if they have nothing to add besides wining how people are upset. Atleast removes these reviews as well, as they add nothing and then atleast it seems like you are neutral on the topic. Other then that I agree with a lot off the arguments of topic starter.

 

 

I stand by our decision to not allow review bombing and removing them. However, you're right. We made a mistake in this case with how it was handled and cleaned out.
 

To explain how it may have happened the way it did though... There was a lot of reviews in the review bomb, and rather than reading each and every single review that was recently posted to see if it was "legit" or "constructive", simply every recent 1 star review was quickly multi-selected and then hidden all at once on the assumption it was part of the review bomb. I'm not the one who cleaned out the reviews, but due the sheer volume of reviews and the fact that the moderators here are purely voluntary, I would not think it reasonable to expect them to read and make a judgement on each and every single review individually. 

 

In the meantime, I have temporarily disabled reviews in the WW section. When it's re-enabled at a later date we will do a more proper sorting through of the reviews, and if there are any proper 1-star reviews that got hidden when they should not have, they will be restored.

[TLayer]

I went to his tutorial page a while back (maybe this year) to see, I remember it was clearly stated that.
Someone reported WhickedWhism to Patreon and issued a warning, WhickedWhism is not associated with pedophilia.
EA just released a pack for high school students, maybe he was being cautious.

> but from what I've heard also the patreons are not all too happy with this sudden change (again this from hearing
> other people who claim to be on there talking). 

That's right, So CN is here, then he must know. I can't thank CN enough.
I probably have more to say than most of you. But what if he is of that character?.
Everyone has flaws, and as long as there are substitute mods, you're boring yourself to death by complaining forever.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Ashal said:

 

 

I stand by our decision to not allow review bombing and removing them. However, you're right. We made a mistake in this case with how it was handled and cleaned out.
 

To explain how it may have happened the way it did though... There was a lot of reviews in the review bomb, and rather than reading each and every single review that was recently posted to see if it was "legit" or "constructive", simply every recent 1 star review was quickly multi-selected and then hidden all at once on the assumption it was part of the review bomb. I'm not the one who cleaned out the reviews, but due the sheer volume of reviews and the fact that the moderators here are purely voluntary, I would not think it reasonable to expect them to read and make a judgement on each and every single review individually. 

 

In the meantime, I have temporarily disabled reviews in the WW section. When it's re-enabled at a later date we will do a more proper sorting through of the reviews, and if there are any proper 1-star reviews that got hidden when they should not have, they will be restored.

 

Not only every 1 star review got removed, 2 and 3 star reviews got removed as well, I can see them in the archives. But i'm glad you would reconsider bringing back reviews that were fair.