The current controversy and anger of the community with the new Wicked Whims update

[LavenderCat]

Just now, goy said:

Review bombing is not allowed, and due to that, the administrator has temporarily disabled them in the WW section until the outrage dies down and the weirdos who want teen sex find out about the inappropriate unlock. (YA look identical to teens, so its purely out of some sort of attraction towards teens it seems. )

Very random and hypothetical question: How do they know it was review bombing for the sake of review bombing/trolling, and not people actually being upset?

It's not a question that needs an answer as they are going to go back through and make sure all the reviews are valid and not trolling.

But that bring up another question: What counts as a "Valid" review? I'm sure my definition is different from yours and from the moderators, but it is something to think about. Also, there's no right or wrong answer here, and I'm not expecting an answer, just expecting you to give it a thought! ^w^

[Jessiebeanie]

Just now, LavenderCat said:

Very random and hypothetical question: How do they know it was review bombing for the sake of review bombing/trolling, and not people actually being upset?

It's not a question that needs an answer as they are going to go back through and make sure all the reviews are valid and not trolling.

But that bring up another question: What counts as a "Valid" review? I'm sure my definition is different from yours and from the moderators, but it is something to think about. Also, there's no right or wrong answer here, and I'm not expecting an answer, just expecting you to give it a thought! ^w^

Many of them were promoting a mod that was banned from this site, using the unwarranted anger over the update as a cover. The anger is mostly unjustified as there is an inappropriate unlock file from the mod author themself that unlocks teens. My definition of a valid review would be something that gives the user's general overall thoughts along with constructive feedback to give something for the author to work off of. Simply going "Add back teen sex now! ?" or "Get DD instead" won't cut it in my book, I want to know why these people want teen sex back soo badly that they refuse to install a 2nd file to add to the list of thousands of mods they likely have installed. Fortunately for these people I'm not a moderator (nor plan on becoming one) so their low effort criticism got to stay until the mods got fed up too.

 

Hope that explains my view point.

[Gambit]

You don't have to tell people if their anger is justified or not. A lot of review aren't very constructive for any mod. So TD had a special treatment from the mods to avoid bad rating on his review from people reacting badly from a decision, good or bad, he made.

 

[jyotai]

1 hour ago, goy said:

Oh. Ohhh..... I had it the other way around lmfao I have wayyy to many mods. My bad.

 

No surprise. It's the gut instinct that surely EA didn't add the adult aspects to teens. The corp behind the game couldn't possibly be the one behind that.

 

And yet they are.

 

Weirdly. EA added sexual preferences AND romance preferences. One could argue the 'romance' is purely teen and prepubescent. But the sex preference is purely adult.

 

Then they ALSO added the mess around interaction and instead of having it play some awkward kissing, had it play the WooHoo animation.

 

So yeah - a 'major US gaming company' put adult actions on their teens.

 

That would seem extremely weird, until we realize they're rumored to have declared in the past, although in a tweet; that a Sims 4 teen is actually 18.

 

 

If they had only added a romance preference to teens, and if the 'Mess Around' interaction had played something uncensored that was clearly 'childish puppy love' in nature - we'd be having a very different discussion here, and I would be on the other side of it. In fact if EA had done that, I'd be arguing Turbo hadn't gone far enough.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 8, 2022 by jyotai

[LavenderCat]

1 hour ago, goy said:

Many of them were promoting a mod that was banned from this site, using the unwarranted anger over the update as a cover. The anger is mostly unjustified as there is an inappropriate unlock file from the mod author themself that unlocks teens. My definition of a valid review would be something that gives the user's general overall thoughts along with constructive feedback to give something for the author to work off of. Simply going "Add back teen sex now! ?" or "Get DD instead" won't cut it in my book, I want to know why these people want teen sex back soo badly that they refuse to install a 2nd file to add to the list of thousands of mods they likely have installed. Fortunately for these people I'm not a moderator (nor plan on becoming one) so their low effort criticism got to stay until the mods got fed up too.

 

Hope that explains my view point.

It does, and while I understand it, I also vaguely recall people asking for a mod as an alternative.

I don't really understand the teen sex thing, but hey, not my game, not my problem, you know?

As for why they don't install a second file, it's likely because TD doesn't mention it..... ever anymore. Like, last time it was talked about/advertised by them was probably a year ago. There was a point in time where I thought it had just been deleted and was gone forever, only to find out months later that it still existed.

I thought it got deleted because it devolved into half-assed legal jargon and pseudo-politics.

[Darkening Demise]

Did MCCC remove teen woohoo too? I no longer see casual nor romantic woohoo/try for baby anymore.

[IfYouOnlyKnewMe]

I don't play the game, but it is my opinion that as long as Turbodriver and Deaderpool don't try to push their sudden change in views about what Teen Sims are to them, onto everyone else, I think they are free to do as they wish with their mod.

 

Personally from a functionality stand point, I see Teen Sims as simply shorter Adult Sims, they can do everything Adult Sims can do

- They share the same wardrobe
- They share the same rigs
- They share the same nude parts (So if you replace "Adult" Sim nude parts, you'd ultimately be replacing Teen Sim nude parts as well)
- They have access to all occults, occult powers, perk points.
- They can get jobs.
- They can cook food
- They can gain all adult skills (Gardening, Cooking, Handiness, Fitness, etc.)
- They can have romances
- They can woohoo (Mess Around)
- They can get into relationships.
- They count as a caretaker when the only other Sims are Child Sims
- If all Adult Sims leave the lot, a babysitter does not automatically get hired to care for them.
- I don't know if they can get married, but they probably can?
- They have access to the pregnancy gender options
- They can become pregnant.

The only thing I am aware of even hinting at Teen Sims being children is the "Change Into Nude" interaction becoming disabled while "Child Sims" are on the lot. (When only Teen Sims are on the lot), but that is only a single piece of evidence FOR them to be considered Child Sims vs all of the above points I brought up FOR them to NOT be considered Child Sims. This one piece of evidence really feels like a bug in the game itself, considering all of the other things available to them.

 

With the new High School DLC, I don't really see a difference between it and what the Get To Work DLC did to careers. All the High School DLC changed was being able to "Join" your Teen Sims for their Highschool "Career".

 

But ultimately, since my mods are run by the community, it would be up to them whether Teen Sims should stay or be removed from my mods, it isn't my choice to make for them.

Edited August 8, 2022 by HeWhoCannotBeNamed

[SticksStackStuck]

6 hours ago, HeWhoCannotBeNamed said:

Personally from a functionality stand point, I see Teen Sims as simply shorter Adult Sims

 

Well, they aren't shorter, they have the standard adult sim height.

 

One of the things that undoubtedly fuel this consternation is that the game uses the same frame for teens and adults. Teens are only lighter built and with smaller jaws, otherwise they are as you say functionally adults. The reason for this is purely technical: Making shorter teens would require them to reprogram all the object and person-to-person interaction, way too much work for very little gain.

 

For the WW animators too shorter teens would be problematic. If they were shorter, the animators would have to make separate animations for them, and particularly for any teen-adult interaction. 

Edited August 8, 2022 by SticksStackStuck

[SysGhost]

7 hours ago, goy said:

Well I mean perverted as in going too far since YAs are visually the same as teens and the context of the sims being teens makes me uncomfortable.

I agree that some people are going to far in this, and if it makes you uncomfortable, thats fine don't use it.

 

What I was refering to was the people (mainly who support the removal) using terms like pervert/pedo/wierdo/etc in their argument to somehow make it look like they are moraly better (while it only makes the argument weaker imo). And it was/is getting kinda tiring to see these people throw these terms to anyone who doesn't agree with them left and right (I belive even a mod made a comment on this a few pages back). It's just unneccesary to acuse anyone of being anything (especialy over something that has been there for years) all because they have a different POV or because the mod author suddenly changed his mind.

 

To end, like I stated in another comment: If you don't like the teenstuff, don't use it.

For the people who do like it, they have given some reasons why they are upset, and for now they have the unlock. But neither party (supportive of against) is necessarily better.

Edited August 8, 2022 by SysGhost

[TLayer]

I would PLAY this game without WW and I love animation create and I will continue to use WW 
For myself and some others. I will decide if I want to support him financially or not based on mood
or if it comes with features I think I need.

But I think those decisions are for each individual to make on their own, and there is no need to conspire with anyone.
Personally, I would like to be able to view the creation date in WW, as the imported Blender files will have that date recorded.
That way it would be easier to find which files are new, I would pay for it.

[thunder11432]

Let me do a TL;DR for you non-readers:
Before the HSY patch:
-EA did not have anything in-game to distinguish between teens and YA, or say what sort of age they were supposed to be. You could say they were 18 and nothing in the game would disprove that.

After the HSY patch:

-EA added functionalities to teens that did exactly that (most notably, puberty related things, which generally occurs between the ages of 9-15 years). Turbo was not comfortable with allowing what could be interpreted as a minor now, performing sexual acts, and rightly so. However he did add a new wicked attribute that you can add to teens, so you can decide if a teen is post-puberty or not. To allow them to have sexual acts still it of course requires the Inappropriate Unlock, which a simple bit of reading can lead you to.

Enjoy

[SysGhost]

45 minutes ago, thunder11432 said:

Let me do a TL;DR for you non-readers:
Before the HSY patch:
-EA did not have anything in-game to distinguish between teens and YA, or say what sort of age they were supposed to be. You could say they were 18 and nothing in the game would disprove that.

After the HSY patch:

-EA added functionalities to teens that did exactly that (most notably, puberty related things, which generally occurs between the ages of 9-15 years). Turbo was not comfortable with allowing what could be interpreted as a minor now, performing sexual acts, and rightly so. However he did add a new wicked attribute that you can add to teens, so you can decide if a teen is post-puberty or not. To allow them to have sexual acts still it of course requires the Inappropriate Unlock, which a simple bit of reading can lead you to.

Enjoy

While yes, you make some solid points.

Then come the people who don't have HSY, for them there is no puberty.

And second the fact that EA added both the romance and sexual orientation wich continues to suggest both ways (minor and not).

So again it is still realy up to the player to decide and maybe or maybe not, it would have been better if it stayed optional.

[Khlas]

11 minutes ago, SysGhost said:

While yes, you make some solid points.

Then come the people who don't have HSY, for them there is no puberty.

And second the fact that EA added both the romance and sexual orientation wich continues to suggest both ways (minor and not).

So again it is still realy up to the player to decide and maybe or maybe not, it would have been better if it stayed optional.

the option is to have them having sex, not the other way around. It doesn’t change anything. The free version just have to follow something that the patreon version used to need. Not the end of the world.

Edited August 8, 2022 by Khlas

[SysGhost]

15 minutes ago, Khlas said:

the option is to have them having sex, not the other way around. It doesn’t change anything. The free version just have to follow something that the patreon version used to need. Not the end of the world.

So I might have worded thing wrong, I was trying to talk about the perception of age of the sims (not the sex part, as I said before idc).

The main debate I've seen was the age that teen sims were supposed to be, some use the puberty as an argument of them being youger (wich I think is fair), Also I've seen people use the orientation as an argument that they are older (wich is also fair).

The only thing I tried to say was, that with the aditions of HSY it becomes more devided, because not everyone will have the pack. And people who don't will most likely still perceive them as older. That is why I think it may have been a smarter decicion to keep it optional, wich I know it still is with the unlock, but im seeing alot of people still unaware that that is a thing.

I've nerver said it's the end of the world, just what I think might have been smarter. But then Im not a developer nor legal expert, so it could be different, that is why I would like TD to just make a better explanation of why.

Edited August 8, 2022 by SysGhost

[Khlas]

8 minutes ago, SysGhost said:

So I might have worded thing wrong, I was trying to talk about the perception of age of the sims (not the sex part, as I said before idc).

The main debate I've seen was the age that teen sims were supposed to be, some use the puberty as an argument of them being youger (wich I think is fair).

The only thing I tried to say was, that with the aditions of HSY it becomes more devided, because not everyone will have the pack. And people who don't will most likely still perceive them as older. That is why I think it may have been a smarter decicion to keep it optional, wich I know it still is with the unlock, but im seeing alot of people still unaware that that is a thing.

I've nerver said it's the end of the world, just what I think might have been smarter. But then Im not a developer nor legal expert, so it could be different, that is why I would like TD to just make a better explanation of why.

perception are made clearly on the game now, and it’s a creator choice to change it so it suits what he is not comfortable with while letting the option from others. No one is falling part from this change. Even those without the pack. You just have maybe the inconvenience to add traits for your teens and it’s pretty much it. Heck, you can even now made them officially as 18+ with this trait, it’s a win-win for everyone.

 

teen sex should have been optional imo and it’s a great and welcome change. Not the other way around 

Edited August 8, 2022 by Khlas

[SoCalExile]

24 minutes ago, Khlas said:

perception are made clearly on the game now, and it’s a creator choice to change it so it suits what he is not comfortable with while letting the option from others. No one is falling part from this change. Even those without the pack. You just have maybe the inconvenience to add traits for your teens and it’s pretty much it. Heck, you can even now made them officially as 18+ with this trait, it’s a win-win for everyone.

 

teen sex should have been optional imo and it’s a great and welcome change. Not the other way around 

 

It's just punishing the users with silly logical backflips required so the modder can have cake and eat it too.

 

But whatever he can do what he wants to his mod, it's just the other drama including the censoring of his own fans and breaking their games/mods that gets me. It's an integrity issue. 

Edited August 8, 2022 by SoCalExile

[SysGhost]

26 minutes ago, Khlas said:

perception are made clearly on the game now, and it’s a creator choice to change it so it suits what he is not comfortable with while letting the option from others. No one is falling part from this change. Even those without the pack. You just have maybe the inconvenience to add traits for your teens and it’s pretty much it. Heck, you can even now made them officially as 18+ with this trait, it’s a win-win for everyone.

 

teen sex should have been optional imo and it’s a great and welcome change. Not the other way around 

Ok, so... I never said it's a bad change, the only quote on quote bad thing is how suddenly it happen (because I still see people confused about why their teens can't funk).

And perception is not made clearly in the game, all there is is a moodlet. There is no official age (only age range).

And as someone who myself started puberty pretty late, I don't think it's weird to expect people to make different interpetations of the age their teens are. The only thing the game makes 'clear' is that they are probably younger then originaly thought.

 

And I'm with you on the new trait/attribute, it is a good thing and probably safes TD alot of potential legal issues by making them 'officialy' 18+.

[IfYouOnlyKnewMe]

On 8/6/2022 at 6:38 PM, LavenderCat said:

CN: *willingly admits to making mistakes and doing wrong in the past, but having learned and moved on from it*

TD: *deletes things that hurt their feelings or call their motives into question*

 

 

Edit:

 

 

On 8/6/2022 at 8:50 PM, LavenderCat said:

You're right that it doesn't have anything to do with this thread, but, again, I have been asking to see the code so I can make my own decision and allow others to do the same; but TD refuses to give anyone the code, so I'm just throwing it out there because I want to see it for my own sake. Not everyone is going to find it as convincing as TD or all of you do, and I think it's best for people to make their own informed choices.

What was the official reason that he was barred from uploading?

As for his comment at the end, it reads as someone who is bitter and done with all this and has had enough. It reads like someone who is at the end of their rope and just wants the other parties to shut up and leave them alone; which is understandable as at least one of them is dedicating a lot of time to going after him instead of the actual ATF modders who are keeping their "addon" up-to-date with WW/MCCC.

 

I'm not trying to be obstreperous or recalcitrant, I'm just trying to provide an outside perspective.
From what I have seen: Mistakes have been made, people are letting their emotions fly, and others are being pushed to the breaking point. It's all very confusing and I'm being told "Don't think about it, just listen to us over them" for no reason that I can clearly discern, and it is getting frustrating.

Everyone keeps talking about stolen code, yet when I ask to see it I get blocked or ignored, or told that I don't deserve to look at it because I could allegedly pirate it/modify it. Truth is, I know how to read code, but I'm utterly hopeless with writing it.

The Admins deleted my confession

 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1g0jJ39vda98DQOXAac9TGIDMPbSt34kCqIj5-ldBOFo/edit?usp=sharing

Edited August 8, 2022 by HeWhoCannotBeNamed

[SysGhost]

15 minutes ago, HeWhoCannotBeNamed said:

 

The Admins deleted my confession

Thats sad...

For as much as it's worth, still masive amounts of respect for comming forward and trying to move on!

[IfYouOnlyKnewMe]

I can't move on if they won't let me, deleting my confession is part of "not letting me" and is a form of oppression.

Here is the confession in all its glory. Share it with everyone you know, don't let it get brushed under the rug as just "drama", this isn't just drama THIS IS MY LIFE!

 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1g0jJ39vda98DQOXAac9TGIDMPbSt34kCqIj5-ldBOFo/edit?usp=sharing

 

My confession is worth nothing if people can't see it!

Edited August 8, 2022 by HeWhoCannotBeNamed

[Amnko]

Still weird af how incest is normal for him but nothing else... 

[Pantera2]

On 8/7/2022 at 4:47 AM, Ashal said:

 

 

I stand by our decision to not allow review bombing and removing them. However, you're right. We made a mistake in this case with how it was handled and cleaned out.
 

To explain how it may have happened the way it did though... There was a lot of reviews in the review bomb, and rather than reading each and every single review that was recently posted to see if it was "legit" or "constructive", simply every recent 1 star review was quickly multi-selected and then hidden all at once on the assumption it was part of the review bomb. I'm not the one who cleaned out the reviews, but due the sheer volume of reviews and the fact that the moderators here are purely voluntary, I would not think it reasonable to expect them to read and make a judgement on each and every single review individually. 

 

In the meantime, I have temporarily disabled reviews in the WW section. When it's re-enabled at a later date we will do a more proper sorting through of the reviews, and if there are any proper 1-star reviews that got hidden when they should not have, they will be restored.

"Mistake", sure Jan.

Edited August 8, 2022 by Pantera2

[Vanilla Scent]

4 hours ago, Amnko said:

Still weird af how incest is normal for him but nothing else... 

Ozwaldo spitting facts

[LavenderCat]

7 hours ago, Amnko said:

Still weird af how incest is normal for him but nothing else... 

This made me laugh tbh

[Sublop]

Really just a lurker here, but my two cents is that it's absolutely wild that over years the staff has essentially given favoritism and preference to a single user to take this mod-centered community by the balls, dependent upon his files - which he profits off of - and then doesn't even allow dissent when he guts a significant feature with no warning with full intent to continue sapping money from people he's tried to hide the change from.

 

Take away what the actual content removed was for a moment, and simply look at the actions performed, the pure facts; you cannot defend that in any way, shape or form.