The current controversy and anger of the community with the new Wicked Whims update

[Gambit]

13 hours ago, TurtleYekaterina said:

Messed up a bunch of saves for people who choose to use the content? It's common knowledge that mods might mess up your save in this game. Why are you outsourcing your responsibilities?

 

Common knoweldge ? Never see a thing like that before. To resolve the issue you have to totally unistall WW and repair the game. Why a mod did corrupt game files ? They didn't choose to install a save eraser in their game. Some test from TD "staff" should have be done more seriously.

But you're somewhat right, but for your patronizing stance :  Guys, do make different saves (rotating or not). Even if you're right to be disappointed, bugs could always happens and crying will not make your sims back.

[sshar22]

Let me see if I may clear up a few things from the legal side

 

Sexual abuse against minors (paedophilia) has usually been encapsulated in the crime against a person, where there is a clear victim and a clear perpetrator. 

With the proliferation of media types, the line of the perpetrator has been blurred too much.

 

Lawmakers (in certain countries) have so shifted the crime like it is an illegal object/substance.

It is a scorched earth approach.

So, now it does not matter if you are doing the act, seeing the act, even drawing the act with a crayon, it is illegal. 

 

College and high school are usually attended by minors, yes, these ones are in particular pixels, but no one will care, still illegal.

 

You can easily guess what countries have this scorched earth approach and how sites, creators, mod makers, etc. are trying to protect themselves.

 

You want to change things? Well start lobbying (money), or start a political career focusing on this issue (I can assure you no politician will stake his future on something like this), Create an alternative payment dealer or server in a country with more agreeable laws. 

 

Anyway, for the moment LL and WW would probably like to avoid that type of scrutiny.

 

Cheers

[SoCalExile]

54 minutes ago, sshar22 said:

Let me see if I may clear up a few things from the legal side

 

Sexual abuse against minors (paedophilia) has usually been encapsulated in the crime against a person, where there is a clear victim and a clear perpetrator. 

With the proliferation of media types, the line of the perpetrator has been blurred too much.

 

Lawmakers (in certain countries) have so shifted the crime like it is an illegal object/substance.

It is a scorched earth approach.

So, now it does not matter if you are doing the act, seeing the act, even drawing the act with a crayon, it is illegal. 

 

College and high school are usually attended by minors, yes, these ones are in particular pixels, but no one will care, still illegal.

 

You can easily guess what countries have this scorched earth approach and how sites, creators, mod makers, etc. are trying to protect themselves.

 

You want to change things? Well start lobbying (money), or start a political career focusing on this issue (I can assure you no politician will stake his future on something like this), Create an alternative payment dealer or server in a country with more agreeable laws. 

 

Anyway, for the moment LL and WW would probably like to avoid that type of scrutiny.

 

Cheers

 

Someone should tell Paradox. ?

 

And "pedophilia" is specifically concerning prepubescent kids under the age of 11 or so. What you're talking about is hebephilia. 

[sshar22]

21 minutes ago, SoCalExile said:

 

Someone should tell Paradox. ?

 

And "pedophilia" is specifically concerning prepubescent kids under the age of 11 or so. What you're talking about is hebephilia. 

 

Sadly, not in Laws confines, way too many countries place paedophilia with anything below the legal age. 

 

Cheers 

[SoCalExile]

Just now, sshar22 said:

 

Sadly, not in Laws confines, way too many countries place paedophilia with anything below the legal age. 

 

Cheers 

 

I'm pretty sure Paradox has lawyers. 

[Guest]

Not sure of the legal shit re: Paradox, but it seems to naturally fall into a different mind's eye zone than the Sims does. CK is emphatically historical, and mostly accurate, and history was pretty brutal and/or utilitarian everywhere. Plus, there's no visible sex or nudity in CK. At least that ships default. Last I checked there weren't mods either, but that was a good couple years ago and I'd be surprised if there wasn't at least some ye olde titty by now. Either way, my point is, the gameplay nature of the Sims is different both in thematics and execution, and furthermore, it attracts a different crowd that is more willing to make a big scene about "moral issues". For whatever reason, the bulk of the Sims community seems to have a vocal overlay of pearl-clutchers. I'd be interested to see a breakdown of how many people actually care vs how many are acting outraged for the Hell of it (or because they don't wanna be yelled at)

I wanna be clear again that I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, or strictly argue in favor of any changes made here. Largely ambivalent but interested in the details.

[SoCalExile]

3 minutes ago, allegedly said:

 ...Last I checked there weren't mods either...

 

Explore the Paradox section of this site. Specifically CK3 and Stellaris. 

[sshar22]

Yes, they do.

your point?

 

they are in Finland

if you are talking about CK2/3, their shield is historical reference/study (flimsy in front of a judge)

they have a pretty niche and adult player base, Imagine if Red Dead Redemption 1/2 from rockstar had underage prostitution.

Anyway, Laws can change only with political/parliamentary discussions, not forum ones

 

Cheers

[SoCalExile]

8 minutes ago, sshar22 said:

Yes, they do.

your point?

 

they are in Finland

if you are talking about CK2/3, their shield is historical reference/study (flimsy in front of a judge)

they have a pretty niche and adult player base, Imagine if Red Dead Redemption 1/2 from rockstar had underage prostitution.

Anyway, Laws can change only with political/parliamentary discussions, not forum ones

 

Cheers

 

 

Can you point me to a court case of someone being convicted of sex crimes or otherwise due to their video game use? I'd like to read about it.

[xordevoreaux]

19 hours ago, DownGoesFrazier23 said:

You won't have these issues if you used DD. 

 

I made the mistake after listening to people promoting DD on this thread and others to try it again. I somehow managed to get the mod into a state where Sims couldn't even move or respond to direction because their queues were filling up too fast with sex wants.  Uninstalled. Never again.

Edited August 5, 2022 by xordevoreaux

[Vanilla Scent]

8 minutes ago, sshar22 said:

Yes, they do.

your point?

 

they are in Finland

if you are talking about CK2/3, their shield is historical reference/study (flimsy in front of a judge)

they have a pretty niche and adult player base, Imagine if Red Dead Redemption 1/2 from rockstar had underage prostitution.

Anyway, Laws can change only with political/parliamentary discussions, not forum ones

 

Cheers

Please don't start a dispute of laws, terms of consent age which varies in countries or YOUR subjective point if view about teens in the Sims 4 (That has always been +16/+19 years in EA's supported gameplay) or external political/historical conflicts.

Because this isn't the case, place or topic and will never be tyvm.

[SoCalExile]

5 minutes ago, xordevoreaux said:

I made the mistake after listening to people promoting DD on this thread and others to try it again. I somehow managed to get the mod into a state where Sims couldn't even move or respond to direction because their queues were filling up too fast with sex wants.  Uninstalled. Never again.

 

You must have given them a lot of kinks ?. It's cool, you can adjust arousal gain in the config settings menu. 

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, xordevoreaux said:

I made the mistake after listening to people promoting DD on this thread and others to try it again. I somehow managed to get the mod into a state where Sims couldn't even move or respond to direction because their queues were filling up too fast with sex wants.  Uninstalled. Never again.

Unless a complete third party takes it on themselves to create a mod as simple and (typically) neutral as WW that's purely utilitarian, there probably won't be a good alternative to WW. Turbo is, from what I've gathered, a professional coder, and the DD guy isn't. Sure, somebody can learn, but DD is a mod clearly made for personal reasons, to cater to the personal taste of the modder. It's likely going to stay less fluently coded than WW, and consistently remain geared towards the specific personal tastes of the guy who made it (which is also why I won't use Nisa's stuff, it feels less like "a generic gameplay addon" and more like "a museum built to honor the fetishes of the person who made it," which isn't what I'm signed up for). I personally wouldn't give it a go, and at least "WickedAssistant" quietly went ahead and added the features back in from a safe distance. Things are going about as well as they can reasonably be expected to go imo.

(shit, I'd love someone to make a good prostitution module that isn't tied to Nisa's gigantic mod though)

Edited August 5, 2022 by allegedly

[sshar22]

Beside the flashy ones Rockstar was attacked in many countries for GTA?

 

Try searching for those cases in Italy, France, Germany and the UK. The accusant and the Judge usually bundle everything from images, video, hentai, games under "possession of illicit paedopornographic material". For digging up papers and court decisions there is actually a profession to find all that stuff, else try browsing the monthly digests attorneys get on the latest interpretation of laws in court cases. (and don't get me startet in Scharia countries).

 

Cheers

 

[SoCalExile]

14 minutes ago, sshar22 said:

Beside the flashy ones Rockstar was attacked in many countries for GTA?

 

Try searching for those cases in Italy, France, Germany and the UK. The accusant and the Judge usually bundle everything from images, video, hentai, games under "possession of illicit paedopornographic material". For digging up papers and court decisions there is actually a profession to find all that stuff, else try browsing the monthly digests attorneys get on the latest interpretation of laws in court cases. (and don't get me startet in Scharia countries).

 

Cheers

 

 

Images and video of real children being sexually assaulted is much more than going to jail just for having mods for games. Those courts aren't starting with the video game, they're starting with the actual CSA and adding the entire gamut to prove that the defendant needs to confined away from society. 

 

ETA: can you cite a law at least?

Edited August 5, 2022 by SoCalExile

[sshar22]

14 minutes ago, Vanilla Scent said:

Please don't start a dispute of laws, terms of consent age which varies in countries or YOUR subjective point if view about teens in the Sims 4 (That has always been +16/+19 years in EA's supported gameplay) or external political/historical conflicts.

Because this isn't the case, place or topic and will never be tyvm.

As I said in my first intervention, LL and WW are simply protecting their existence as PayPal abides by US laws/puritanism/wokeness (I know, a contradiction in terms, but that's US)

And the obfuscated playing field of the word Teen has shrunk with some of the latest packs in this game.

 

Cheers

[sshar22]

3 minutes ago, SoCalExile said:

 

Images and video of real children being sexually assaulted is much more than going to jail just for having mods for games. Those courts aren't starting with the video game, they're starting with the actual CSA and adding the entire gamut to prove that the defendant needs to confined away from society. 

Anecdote:

UK, Man convicted because he imported a fully dressed childlike doll (not a silicone sexdoll) that had the genitalia painted.

I remember that because it caused a hiccup in model import from east asia. Some of the major Import/export had to stall several shipments due to that and various model kits (mecha and co) failed to arrive on time.

 

Cheers

[sshar22]

24 minutes ago, SoCalExile said:

 

Images and video of real children being sexually assaulted is much more than going to jail just for having mods for games. Those courts aren't starting with the video game, they're starting with the actual CSA and adding the entire gamut to prove that the defendant needs to confined away from society. 

 

ETA: can you cite a law at least?

 

You think I'm joking?

 

§ 184b Strafgesetzbuch (StGB): Verbreitung, Erwerb und Besitz kinderpornografischer Inhalte

German law

 

Dispositivo dell'art. 600 quater Codice Penale.

Chiunque, al di fuori delle ipotesi previste nell'articolo 600ter, consapevolmente si procura o detiene(3) materiale pornografico realizzato utilizzando minori degli anni diciotto è punito con la reclusione fino a tre anni o con la multa non inferiore a euro 1.549.

Italian Law

 

Cheers

 

[jyotai]

My opinion on this is summed up with what I put into a new review. As it is a change to a feature, and actually removes something EA added with the recent patch... I feel a review of it was a proper call IF worded right:

 

 

EA used their latest expansion to add support for WooHoo to teens. With new more adult actions and animations that clarify that a Sims 4 'teen' is a late-teen / adult. This mod took that and went in the opposite direction - interpreting the addition of 'woohoo' and 'sexual preference' for teens as a declaration that teens were not adult. That seems illogical.

 

I'm not majorly a supporter of teen woohoo in Sims 4, just like I view the 'alien abduction' scenario as a rape-fantasy written into the base game by EA. HOWEVER - going in the opposite direction from EA and removing support for the very feature the new expansion added in seems...

 

illogical.

 

At this point it seems someone needs to begin writing an alternative mod. One that is very basic in feature set. Not akin to those mods that are banned here, nor as feature rich as this mod was. Just something to support adult animations for those social interactions already in the core game. Support those features as they are in the actual EA game - just with uncensored animations. And thereby provide a mod that can steer clear of disappointing its supporters.

 

 

 

I'm NOT a fan of 'teen adult interactions' per se in the game. But EA seems to have made the opposite call and declared a Sims 4 teen an adult, and then added sexual preferences for them as well as WooHoo interactions. So... blocking an EA feature of the game seems the wrong call to make.

 

 

[SoCalExile]

13 minutes ago, sshar22 said:

 

You think I'm joking?

 

§ 184b Strafgesetzbuch (StGB): Verbreitung, Erwerb und Besitz kinderpornografischer Inhalte

German law

 

Dispositivo dell'art. 600 quater Codice Penale.

Chiunque, al di fuori delle ipotesi previste nell'articolo 600ter, consapevolmente si procura o detiene(3) materiale pornografico realizzato utilizzando minori degli anni diciotto è punito con la reclusione fino a tre anni o con la multa non inferiore a euro 1.549.

Italian Law

 

Cheers

 

 

The text of the german law.

 

A child, according to this article, is someone under the age of 14 in Germany. 

The text of the Italian law. It specifically says "pornographic material made using minors under the age of eighteen" (weird because the age of consent is 14 in Italy) which a video game is not. 

 

You're citing general Child Porn laws as if they apply to depictions of 16-19 year olds in video games but ignoring that other internationally sold games and mods depict 16 year olds, including mods on this site. 

 

Edited August 5, 2022 by SoCalExile

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, jyotai said:

My opinion on this is summed up with what I put into a new review. As it is a change to a feature, and actually removes something EA added with the recent patch... I feel a review of it was a proper call IF worded right:

 

 

At this point it seems someone needs to begin writing an alternative mod. One that is very basic in feature set. Not akin to those mods that are banned here, nor as feature rich as this mod was. Just something to support adult animations for those social interactions already in the core game. Support those features as they are in the actual EA game - just with uncensored animations. And thereby provide a mod that can steer clear of disappointing its supporters.

I've been thinking lately that I miss the simplicity of the Sims 2 sex mod: pick bed, counters, or floor, and then go from there. If something similar was added to 4 that included all of the other in-game woohoo locations as sex sites, that'd be great. Although I do really love the creativity of WW's location options. Window was a genius addition. But yeah, as feature-rich as WW is, it does tack on and remove a lot of things at whim. I'm still annoyed at the inconsistent pronouns in all of the moodlets and sentiments and whatever. I wasn't keen on him going wholly-neutral in the first place, but now that the game HAS custom pronouns why can't our sims just be described as they actually are, lol? Especially since whether my sim is "they" or "he" can change 3 times in one tooltip.

Edited August 5, 2022 by allegedly

[sshar22]

6 minutes ago, SoCalExile said:

 

The text of the german law.

 

A child, according to this article, is someone under the age of 14 in Germany. 

The text of the Italian law. It specifically says "pornographic material made using minors under the age of eighteen" (weird because the age of consent is 14 in Italy) which a video game is not. 

 

You're citing general Child Porn laws as if they apply to depictions of 16-19 year olds in video games but ignoring that other internationally sold games and mods depict 16 year olds, including mods on this site. 

 

read - better - and between the lines - and mainly with a malicious compliance in mind, wich is always the case in a court room, and you can spot how this can easily turned in any way they want. And yes, the words in those laws are open enough as to leave the interpretation on what constitutes a minor to the judge. Anyway, if you think you may win a case this way.. be my guest

 

Cheers

[SysGhost]

2 hours ago, xordevoreaux said:

I made the mistake after listening to people promoting DD on this thread and others to try it again. I somehow managed to get the mod into a state where Sims couldn't even move or respond to direction because their queues were filling up too fast with sex wants.  Uninstalled. Never again.

Yea thats a problem with DD, you have to change alot of settings before playing. For some reason if you don't, all sims will be sex addicts... But if you tone all settings down, the mod honestly isn't that bad... just way less streamlined than WW.

[SoCalExile]

1 hour ago, sshar22 said:

read - better - and between the lines - and mainly with a malicious compliance in mind, wich is always the case in a court room, and you can spot how this can easily turned in any way they want. And yes, the words in those laws are open enough as to leave the interpretation on what constitutes a minor to the judge. Anyway, if you think you may win a case this way.. be my guest

 

Cheers

 

I think your point is moot and based on assumptions not the letter of the law. 

 

 

[SoCalExile]

20 minutes ago, SysGhost said:

Yea thats a problem with DD, you have to change alot of settings before playing. For some reason if you don't, all sims will be sex addicts... But if you tone all settings down, the mod honestly isn't that bad... just way less streamlined than WW.

 

IMO it's more streamlined as far as how much it tries to do on it's own. There is an animation customizer here, which makes life easy and I've only had to adjust a couple settings with the modules otherwise - to include turning the arousal gain up. 

I've had to learn to live without some things, but the difference in performance is worth it to me. YMMV.