CorruptGenie Posted October 27, 2021 Posted October 27, 2021 The following post is mainly meant to address Canadian LL users. I am not a legal expert, so please don't take this as legal advice. I just feel like the Canadian mod-makers of this site need be aware of this particular law. You may surprised to know that Canada has slightly stricter "porn laws" than its neighbor to the south. In fact, I would say there are quite a few mods on LL that would be illegal for a Canadian to have made or to re-post online. The law in question is the Criminal code for "Obscene Materials". A paraphrasing of this law is as follows: Criminal Code (R.S.C., 1985, c. C-46) It is an offense to make or distribute any material deemed obscene, fictional or not. For the purposes of this law, any publication in which a dominant characteristic is the undue exploitation of sex, or of sex and any one or more of the following subjects, namely, crime, horror, cruelty and violence, shall be deemed to be obscene. (end quote.) Link to this law here. In other words, to know if a mod you're making is illegal, you need to ask yourself: does it mix sex and violence (or any of those other things they list)? Is it "undue"? As LL users, I feel we might be a bit jaded on what exactly "violence" is (and the law's wording seems more than a little subjective), but in my opinion, this law describes many of LL's most favorite themes. Rape, bestiality, and slavery mods are just some examples you'll find when you sort the LL mod list by "most downloaded". I suppose it is important to note, this law makes no mention of "consuming" obscene materials (only making and distributing). Which means it is 100% legal to download and play an "obscene mod" that someone else made and posted to LL. Maybe you are also wondering what "undue" means. In 1992, the supreme court came up with a test to determine if something is undue. Something becomes undue when an average Canadian would not tolerate another Canadian being exposed to it. (Sources: this article 1, and page 4 of 2). If you ask me, that is still pretty vague and subjective. Personally, I like mods (both making and playing them). And, I like exploring themes that sometimes involve violence and/or sex. However, I also like staying within the law and so I am obviously not keen on making mods that lie at the intersection of these two together. Sex alone? Yes. Violence? Sure. But never together unless someone else made it. I'd wager that only a small number of LL users are Canadian, and even less of them are also mod-makers. Still, as a LL user, you might want to be aware of the limitations of your peers. And maybe this post will also prompt non-Canadians to double check the laws in their own country as well. ======== ...Alright, that was my rant on something that probably only affects a small minority of people here. I suppose I just needed to vent this somewhere. Thankfully LL is a global community and I can still in good conscience use mods that other people have made. Thank you to those mod-makers for being born in more liberal countries Stay legal, people.
MadMansGun Posted October 27, 2021 Posted October 27, 2021 only the CBSA gives a flying fuck about that, no one else in canada does.
Vyxenne Posted October 27, 2021 Posted October 27, 2021 On 10/26/2021 at 7:24 PM, CorruptGenie said: something that probably only affects a small minority of people here Not so fast! It might apply to certain, uh, more adventurous Americans too! Let me give you a (purely hypothetical) example: I once made the acquaintance of a Bareskin Airlines (you can't make this stuff up!) co-pilot over pizza and a few Muskokas at The Boiler Room in Sault Ste, Marie, Ontario, who said he was in town from Thunder Bay on a 2-day Layover. Since he had already broken the ice, talking about Layovers and all, I replied coyly that I had always liked Layunders as well as Layovers and things heated up rapidly from there. One thing led to several more and we might have ended up committing various obscenities upon each other in two countries that night, parking his rental SUV (with its spacious cargo area) right smack-dab on the white line across the middle of the International Bridge between Ontario and Michigan and arranging ourselves so that (most of) one of us was in Canada while (at least some of) the other was in the U.S. We then let nature take its course... several times, as it turned out- his Stamina attribute was exceptionally bounteous. Could this rise to the level of an International Incident?™ My recollection is that my Bareskin Flyboy rose to a level that I appreciated very much, but I think that's a totally different thing. Do you think I can be prosecuted for committing obscenities upon a Canadian while at least one of us was (mostly) in the U.S., or only for the times the Canadian was purportedly in Canada? Does it matter who was on top when the RCMP dude shined his light in at us and made us move across the bridge? Can he be prosecuted under Canadian law for the wondrous obscenities he committed on me at the Holiday Inn we ended up at in Michigan? Worried in Wichita
CorruptGenie Posted October 27, 2021 Author Posted October 27, 2021 22 minutes ago, Vyxenne said: Not so fast! It might apply to certain, uh, more adventurous Americans too! Let me give you a (purely hypothetical) example: I once made the acquaintance of a Bareskin Airlines (you can't make this stuff up!) co-pilot over pizza and a few Muskokas at The Boiler Room in Sault Ste, Marie, Ontario, who said he was in town from Thunder Bay on a 2-day Layover. Since he had already broken the ice, talking about Layovers and all, I replied coyly that I had always liked Layunders as well as Layovers and things heated up rapidly from there. One thing led to several more and we might have ended up committing various obscenities upon each other in two countries that night, parking his rental SUV (with its spacious cargo area) right smack-dab on the white line across the middle of the International Bridge between Ontario and Michigan and arranging ourselves so that (most of) one of us was in Canada while (at least some of) the other was in the U.S. We then let nature take its course... several times, as it turned out- his Stamina attribute was exceptionally bounteous. Could this rise to the level of an International Incident?™ My recollection is that he rose to a level that I appreciated very much, but I think that's a totally different thing. Do you think I can be prosecuted for committing obscenities upon a Canadian while at least one of us was (mostly) in the U.S., or only for the times the Canadian was purportedly in Canada? Does it matter who was on top when the RCMP dude shined his light in at us and made us move across the bridge? Can he be prosecuted under Canadian law for the wondrous obscenities he committed on me at the Holiday Inn we ended up at in Michigan? Worried in Wichita As long as neither of you are the Dovahkiin, I think it's kosher
KoolHndLuke Posted October 27, 2021 Posted October 27, 2021 Yeah, I don't think this is just going to be a problem for you, op. Many such laws are being introduced and passed in other places as well. Best that we figure out how to deal with this shit now if we want to continue to 'lewd' our games and such. Since I am NOT any kind of civil rights activist or want to fight the system, I just want to do what I do and be left the fuck alone since it's not harming anything or anyone. Best solution I have right now is to encrypt the original files, password protect, and just use copies of them in your game on a separate drive that you can quickly dispose of or wipe if need be. Of course with more technical knowledge you can pretty much make it impossible for any court to find evidence of you breaking any laws. The good news is you can learn this stuff since it's freely available on the net in various places. Another solution? Move.
CorruptGenie Posted October 27, 2021 Author Posted October 27, 2021 10 minutes ago, KoolHndLuke said: Another solution? Move. True, haha. Or maybe just take a vacation south of the border. Then it wouldn't be breaking any laws I don't think. X)
KoolHndLuke Posted October 27, 2021 Posted October 27, 2021 TBH this sounds like another one of those silly laws that may or may not be enforced depending on the situation- like in addition to more serious charges like sex trafficking. I suspect very few ppl in any agency actively hunt down ppl that just like kinky sex in their games. If they do, then that is fucking sad imo.
Vyxenne Posted October 27, 2021 Posted October 27, 2021 23 hours ago, CorruptGenie said: take a vacation south of the border. Then it wouldn't be breaking any laws I don't think. X) Fun fact: The Age of Consent in Quintana Roo, home of Cozumel, Cancun and the suggestively-named Isla Mujeres, has been 12 every time I've been there. Wheee! ?
pinky6225 Posted October 27, 2021 Posted October 27, 2021 Also not a legal expert but believe you'd struggle to apply a 1985 law that lists... 163 (1) Every person commits an offence who makes, prints, publishes, distributes, circulates or has in their possession for the purpose of publication, distribution or circulation any obscene written matter, picture, model, phonograph record or any other obscene thing To a world that has moved on by 36 years, that's clearly a pre-internet/pre-modern gaming definition so a mod in a game would be under "other" and other is very open So i'd doubt the cops will come knocking on your door as you made a skyrim sex mod Thinking about it game of thrones violated that on quite a few episodes, that available in canada?
Heroine HoneyCrotch Posted October 27, 2021 Posted October 27, 2021 18 hours ago, Vyxenne said: Not so fast! It might apply to certain, uh, more adventurous Americans too! Let me give you a (purely hypothetical) example: I once made the acquaintance of a Bareskin Airlines (you can't make this stuff up!) co-pilot over pizza and a few Muskokas at The Boiler Room in Sault Ste, Marie, Ontario, who said he was in town from Thunder Bay on a 2-day Layover. Since he had already broken the ice, talking about Layovers and all, I replied coyly that I had always liked Layunders as well as Layovers and things heated up rapidly from there. One thing led to several more and we might have ended up committing various obscenities upon each other in two countries that night, parking his rental SUV (with its spacious cargo area) right smack-dab on the white line across the middle of the International Bridge between Ontario and Michigan and arranging ourselves so that (most of) one of us was in Canada while (at least some of) the other was in the U.S. We then let nature take its course... several times, as it turned out- his Stamina attribute was exceptionally bounteous. Could this rise to the level of an International Incident?™ My recollection is that he rose to a level that I appreciated very much, but I think that's a totally different thing. Do you think I can be prosecuted for committing obscenities upon a Canadian while at least one of us was (mostly) in the U.S., or only for the times the Canadian was purportedly in Canada? Does it matter who was on top when the RCMP dude shined his light in at us and made us move across the bridge? Can he be prosecuted under Canadian law for the wondrous obscenities he committed on me at the Holiday Inn we ended up at in Michigan? Worried in Wichita If a rooster in on top of a hen house that is half on canada border and half on us border, and it lays an egg which way will the egg roll?
Rdjvw Posted October 27, 2021 Posted October 27, 2021 17 minutes ago, Heroine HoneyCrotch said: If a rooster in on top of a hen house that is half on canada border and half on us border, and it lays an egg which way will the egg roll? Be carefull with these statements. In this world a rooster could be a hen and a hen a rooster. We are just waiting till they can speak.
CorruptGenie Posted October 27, 2021 Author Posted October 27, 2021 2 hours ago, pinky6225 said: Also not a legal expert but believe you'd struggle to apply a 1985 law that lists... 163 (1) Every person commits an offence who makes, prints, publishes, distributes, circulates or has in their possession for the purpose of publication, distribution or circulation any obscene written matter, picture, model, phonograph record or any other obscene thing To a world that has moved on by 36 years, that's clearly a pre-internet/pre-modern gaming definition so a mod in a game would be under "other" and other is very open So i'd doubt the cops will come knocking on your door as you made a skyrim sex mod Thinking about it game of thrones violated that on quite a few episodes, that available in canada? True, GoT aired in Canada. I guess that falls under what is "undue" or not. Another argument though: GoT had rape/incest, but it wasn't what the show was about (despite how often as it was depicted). It's not the same thing as rape/incest with the main purpose of being porn. Though perhaps my original post was being a little overly paranoid. Then again, I'd say my own kinks are pretty extreme and not "universally accepted", so maybe there's still cause to be mindful. This law seems to be treated like a popularity contest. If people are ok with it, then the law is ok with it.... But that just leaves you wondering, which kinks are people ok with and where do they draw the line? Seems like the answer is vastly different for each person.
CorruptGenie Posted October 27, 2021 Author Posted October 27, 2021 14 minutes ago, Rdjvw said: Be carefull with these statements. In this world a rooster could be a hen and a hen a rooster. We are just waiting till they can speak. I think you just caught that it was a trick question
Vyxenne Posted October 28, 2021 Posted October 28, 2021 5 hours ago, Heroine HoneyCrotch said: If a rooster in on top of a hen house that is half on canada border and half on us border, and it lays an egg which way will the egg roll? Egg roll? Why, into the nearest Chinese restaurant, of course! Although, I must say that laying an egg stretches the Age of Consent issue by quite a lot- even the youngest AoC I've ever heard of requires that the consenter must at least have been born (or hatched) before she can get laid...
Vyxenne Posted October 28, 2021 Posted October 28, 2021 5 hours ago, CorruptGenie said: This law seems to be treated like a popularity contest. If people are ok with it, then the law is ok with it... The difficulty may lie in the fact that people seldom admit publicly how much smut they're really "OK with." The difference between what people say and what they actually do, especially in matters relating to sex, is astonishing. I read a précis of a study on incest once, which concluded that only a small percentage of girls (like, 5% or so) had participated in a consensual sexual act with their father and/or brother. However, there was a footnote link at the end of this conclusion, and when I clicked the footnote link I read a statement to the effect that 60% (forgot the exact percentage but it was well over half) of the girls surveyed refused to answer the questions. LOL! Hmmm... Why do you suppose a girl who had volunteered to participate in a study on incest would refuse to answer questions like "have you ever had sex with your father or brother?" ? Suspicions... CONFIRMED! ? All I'm saying is don't believe what people say- believe what they do. Pornhub is alive and well, so, apparently... a lot of people are "OK with it." ?
lk74 Posted December 8, 2021 Posted December 8, 2021 well, Im in the exact same situation. from what I understand, "it might not get you into trouble, but 'they' can hunt you down anytime if they want", so I choose to not deal with this at all.
JDough400 Posted December 15, 2021 Posted December 15, 2021 The problem with this and many other 'laws' is that they are created by the guys wielding the biggest sticks, and those benefitting from association to the stick wielders will be among the first cry "she's a witch" and relish the chase/hunt of a 'disgusting perverted criminal' I say if all parties involved are happy... then leave em' to it.
JDough400 Posted December 15, 2021 Posted December 15, 2021 On 10/28/2021 at 4:45 AM, Vyxenne said: The difficulty may lie in the fact that people seldom admit publicly how much smut they're really "OK with." The difference between what people say and what they actually do, especially in matters relating to sex, is astonishing. I read a précis of a study on incest once, which concluded that only a small percentage of girls (like, 5% or so) had participated in a consensual sexual act with their father and/or brother. However, there was a footnote link at the end of this conclusion, and when I clicked the footnote link I read a statement to the effect that 60% (forgot the exact percentage but it was well over half) of the girls surveyed refused to answer the questions. LOL! Hmmm... Why do you suppose a girl who had volunteered to participate in a study on incest would refuse to answer questions like "have you ever had sex with your father or brother?" ? Suspicions... CONFIRMED! ? All I'm saying is don't believe what people say- believe what they do. Pornhub is alive and well, so, apparently... a lot of people are "OK with it." ? The funny thing is, the 'Ancient' laws on incest was to prevent inbreeding, however with todays contraception products I ask "should the laws now be repealed?"... after all, there's no real need for them and they are only upheld for a morally superior stance.
Vyxenne Posted December 16, 2021 Posted December 16, 2021 18 hours ago, JDough400 said: The funny thing is, the 'Ancient' laws on incest was to prevent inbreeding, however with todays contraception products I ask "should the laws now be repealed?"... after all, there's no real need for them and they are only upheld for a morally superior stance. As a willing an eager participant in such "taboo" liaisons for most of my post-puberty life, I completely agree. 100%. That was the entire point of my posts in this thread.
Clea Strange Posted December 25, 2021 Posted December 25, 2021 I want to say that only the politicians who pass these laws even care while alot/majority ignore it. Also other countries pass laws like this but again a lot/majority of the citizens ignore it and continue doing it.
beefers Posted March 31, 2022 Posted March 31, 2022 On 10/26/2021 at 5:24 PM, CorruptGenie said: As LL users, I feel we might be a bit jaded on what exactly "violence" is (and the law's wording seems more than a little subjective), but in my opinion, this law describes many of LL's most favorite themes. Rape, bestiality, and slavery mods are just some examples you'll find when you sort the LL mod list by "most downloaded". Jesus... if LL's 'most favourite' themes are rape, beastiality and slavery, I really should see myself out because I hate all those things and people who are into them scare the shit out of me. BTW, I am Canadian and I've never heard of those laws but I'm also no lawyer.
Splendor Solis Posted April 1, 2022 Posted April 1, 2022 5 hours ago, beefers said: Jesus... if LL's 'most favourite' themes are rape, beastiality and slavery, I really should see myself out because I hate all those things and people who are into them scare the shit out of me. BTW, I am Canadian and I've never heard of those laws but I'm also no lawyer. Those things bother you? But I thought all Canadians had already been made into concubines by the polar bears. Can't believe I was lied to for all these years. Next you're gonna tell me you guys don't all live in igloos, and don't say "Sorry, eh" while walking down an empty street just in case you walked into a ghost.
MadMansGun Posted April 1, 2022 Posted April 1, 2022 23 minutes ago, Splendor Soils said: But I thought all Canadians had already been made into concubines by the polar bears sadly they are not that friendly. 24 minutes ago, Splendor Soils said: Next you're gonna tell me you guys don't all live in igloos mine melted.
Splendor Solis Posted April 1, 2022 Posted April 1, 2022 52 minutes ago, MadMansGun said: sadly they are not that friendly. mine melted. These are dark days for Canada.
MadMansGun Posted April 1, 2022 Posted April 1, 2022 16 minutes ago, Splendor Soils said: These are dark days for Canada. i blame justin castro
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