Realism vs. Cool: Blog criticizes "Boob Plate Armor"

[Nonsense667]

To this end another point we have to ask ourselves is, just what is this armour designed to protect against? 

Yes full plate will help you against other people, it may even aid you against animals and some monsters. (dependent on what ones)

It's armor. It's designed to protect. Period. There is a difference between getting hit on your naked flesh, and getting hit with an inch of armor protecting you, no matter what is hitting you, sword, axe, claw, fist, teeth, or fireball.

 

However I don't care how much plate you wear, if a dragon picks you up, puts you in his mouth and chews, no amount of personal armour will save you.

Also if he breaths fire on you, all your armour will accomplish is in turning you into a portable oven snack for the Dragon.

The only way armour is saving you from that is if we're talking power armour, but I bet even Tony Stark wouldn't want to climb into a dragon's mouth to find out, but we're talking normal armour so lets keep with that.

 

Dragons are not the common enemy, they are not what the armor is designed around combating. And in the argument of "You have two choices: Fire breathed on you while you are naked, fire breathed on you while you have armor." I will choose armor, thanks. If wearing armor "Turns you into a portable oven snack," then not wearing it makes you a hotdog held too close to the fire.

 

Unlike in our world, fantasy armour has to deal with more than just the human element, and that's where 'magic' comes into play.

Why doesn't my archer freeze to death when I'm hit with a -50c ice ray? because my chest piece is enchanted with "100% resist frost"

When I'm hit by magic, it hurts. When I'm wearing armor and I'm hit by magic, it hurts less. And not just because of enchantments.

 

That's the only real way to explain away how I can live through being punted into a wall by a giant, trampled by a Monmouth or flame grilled by a dragon, is by throwing in enchantments, because if we're saying. "This armour is so bad and ruins my SOB because the cleavage window would let a well placed arrow or sword kill her dead." Then there is no way the same girl could live through any of the 1000 things she'd have to fight in Skyrim, even in a set of full plate.

No, it's not. All that's being said is, armor is protection. Wearing armor protects. Yes, even against giants and mammoths. Doesn't stop me from being one/two shotted by them a lot of times, because they are strong, and yes, they will kill me, even wearing armor. Doesn't mean I'm going to go to battle against them naked. In fighting 100 bandits, 30 wolves, 10 ogres, 1 dragon, and 1 giant, considering that the armor helps against pretty much all of that, I'm going to go ahead and say that it isn't exactly as useless as you would say.

 

 

If your saying one well placed arrow will kill her, then there is no way she could live through a dragon attack, any of his moves would spell her doom, so her armour would be meaningless, the only way she could surive a hit is if you bring 'magic' and 'enchantments' back into play.

However the moment you do there goes your realism.

Once again, dragons are not a primary threat in Skyrim. Even though you've based pretty much your entire argument around them. That being said, no, not every single dragon attack spells complete and utter doom. It just doesn't. That's not how it works. As for magic and enchantments, in a world where magic exists, having magic is perfectly realistic.

 

If the only way my girl can live through a dragon attack is to load up on 'Resist Fire' 'Reduce Physical Damage' 'Resist Knockback' and spells than can help her deflect/absorb the fatal blows, then and here comes the plausibility part. 

Why can't she just wear a losses fitting outfit?

If all the 'protection' is coming from her enchantments, then really the armour is only there to hold said enchantments, she can wear whatever she wants/find comfortable, even a chainmail bikini if she's so inclined, her clothing just becomes about what she can move best in, or how she wants to look.

Hell she could go out their naked if she wanted and just wear a lot of enchanted rings and necklaces.

 

It's not the only way. All the protection isn't coming from enchantments. Your view of mechanics and enchantments is not the way all view it. It certainly isn't my view.

 

The way I see it, if we're going by the logic that a single well placed arrow to the chest, or a sword to the neck will kill our characters, then there's no way they could live through anything a dragon, giant or fireball hurling mage could throw at us.

We'd have to rely on our enchantments to keep us alive and that means our armour becomes pointless, and in the cause of full plate, you'd be slowing yourself down for no good reason.

I disagree.

 

 

If you want plausibility then there you have it, in a world where swords and arrows are the least of your worries, and the only way to survive through a dragon attack is to deck yourself out in several different enchantments.

Then if you want to stroll around in a grey robe and pointy hat, of show off some cleavage in your boob-plate with an exposed midriff, go for it, after all armour is literally just preference at this point, it'll be your enchantments that keep you alive.

If that was at all true of the world. But it isn't. Swords and arrows are a serious concern still. And dragons are a concern for almost no one.

 

If you want your world, with your rules, with your stories, you have it. But I have mine, my world, my rules, my stories. And they are not abiding by your misconstrued, misinterpreted, malignant theories, casting anyone who would dare to think in a way beyond your own mental grasp in some sort of murky, mangled depth of maniacal lunacy. This is the logical, well thought out post of the thread? Hardly. It's just a shallow repetition of all the bland, mindless sputtering that has followed before it, parading alongside all of the other swaggering fools. I don't care what pathetic arguments you make, attempting to convince me of the wrongness of my mind, you fail to understand that this is not about shouting arguments and theorems from the roof tops. This is simply about people, wanting to craft worlds, and stories, that they enjoy. Keep shouting. You only serve to deafen your own ears. I however hear a sweet, beautiful music, that you seem to have long stopped hearing.

[gregathit]

It's armor. It's designed to protect. Period. There is a difference between getting hit on your naked flesh, and getting hit with an inch of armor protecting you, no matter what is hitting you, sword, axe, claw, fist, teeth, or fireball.

Wrong, enchantments\spells protect you just like armor would. To deny this is to deny the lore of the game. While you are more than welcome to head canon anything you like, lore is still lore.

 

 

 

Dragons are not the common enemy, they are not what the armor is designed around combating. And in the argument of "You have two choices: Fire breathed on you while you are naked, fire breathed on you while you have armor." I will choose armor, thanks. If wearing armor "Turns you into a portable oven snack," then not wearing it makes you a hotdog held too close to the fire.

 

Wait, what game are you playing anyway? Yes, dragons ARE a fairly common enemy. You are tasked with killing them to get many of your shouts. Enchantments can protect from a variety of things, especially if you layer them.

 

 

 

When I'm hit by magic, it hurts. When I'm wearing armor and I'm hit by magic, it hurts less. And not just because of enchantments.

 

Says who? Your head canon? Where does it tell you that? If you have the correct enchantment then the damage you take can be less than what armor alone would do.

 

 

 

No, it's not. All that's being said is, armor is protection. Wearing armor protects. Yes, even against giants and mammoths. Doesn't stop me from being one/two shotted by them a lot of times, because they are strong, and yes, they will kill me, even wearing armor. Doesn't mean I'm going to go to battle against them naked. In fighting 100 bandits, 30 wolves, 10 ogres, 1 dragon, and 1 giant, considering that the armor helps against pretty much all of that, I'm going to go ahead and say that it isn't exactly as useless as you would say.

 

You entirely missed the point. The correct enchantment(s)\spell(s) can protect as well if not better than armor alone. Simple concept and easy to test.

 

 

 

 

Once again, dragons are not a primary threat in Skyrim. Even though you've based pretty much your entire argument around them. That being said, no, not every single dragon attack spells complete and utter doom. It just doesn't. That's not how it works. As for magic and enchantments, in a world where magic exists, having magic is perfectly realistic.

 

Dragons were just an example at the extreme end of the spectrum to prove a point. One you clearly missed. The correct enchantment(s)\spell(s) can protect as well or better than armor in a given situation.

 

 

 

It's not the only way. All the protection isn't coming from enchantments. Your view of mechanics and enchantments is not the way all view it. It certainly isn't my view.

 

Again, you are head canoning things that are opposite of lore and game mechanics. Enchantments\spells do protect and yes, they are all that is needed. Skyrim is not alone in this. Hell, look at any game that has different classes and you will find only the warrior class wearing heavy armor, and yet the mage class, typically wearing robes, can take as much punishment as the warrior can wearing his\her heavy armor if they are properly protected by enchantments and spells. View things as you like, but lore is lore, game mechanics are game mechanics. Both are easily tested in game.

 

 

 

If that was at all true of the world. But it isn't. Swords and arrows are a serious concern still. And dragons are a concern for almost no one.

 

Except that they aren't. I have never once died from a sword or arrow, have you? With the proper enchantments and spells I can indeed go naked and survive just fine. This is rather simple to test in game.

 

 

 

 

If you want your world, with your rules, with your stories, you have it. But I have mine, my world, my rules, my stories. And they are not abiding by your misconstrued, misinterpreted, malignant theories, casting anyone who would dare to think in a way beyond your own mental grasp in some sort of murky, mangled depth of maniacal lunacy. This is the logical, well thought out post of the thread? Hardly. It's just a shallow repetition of all the bland, mindless sputtering that has followed before it, parading alongside all of the other swaggering fools. I don't care what pathetic arguments you make, attempting to convince me of the wrongness of my mind, you fail to understand that this is not about shouting arguments and theorems from the roof tops. This is simply about people, wanting to craft worlds, and stories, that they enjoy. Keep shouting. You only serve to deafen your own ears. I however hear a sweet, beautiful music, that you seem to have long stopped hearing.

 

Rather than respond in kind to your silly rant above, I find it rather funny that you spurn lore and game mechanics to trumpet your head canon of how things should be, instead of how they actually are. I suggest you actually go and play Skyrim or any other game for that matter. You will quickly be faced with the truth. I also find it funny how you are so insulting of the thoughts and opinions of others, when you are presenting your own. Smacks of hypocrisy with a capital H.

 

Since I touted his post as the most logical and well thought out post in this thread, I guess I have to dub yours as the most silly and pointless. Sorry.

[Nonsense667]

I'm not saying enchantments don't work. I'm saying enchantments aren't the primary protection, completely overwhelming armor. I'm saying armor is protection. I'm also not coming from a game mechanics standpoint, nor really from a "lore" standpoint. I'm coming from a view of how the world is, when I look at it. It's also not a player focused view. I'm looking at the world of Skyrim that I see, and all of the people, and stories within it. 

 

Similar to your question of having died from a sword or arrow. I'm not looking at it from a gameplay perspective. I'm looking at it from a roleplaying perspective, from the perspective of someone looking for a story. 

 

"If you want your world, with your rules, with your stories, you have it."

I will never say someone can't have their own ideas of how their own stories can play out. I'm saying that it gets me pretty pissed off, seeing these posts saying that "I'm right, your wrong, everyone should see things the way I do." Maybe I'm viewing things in the wrong light? Maybe not. Who knows. 

[leddis3]

I'm not saying enchantments don't work. I'm saying enchantments aren't the primary protection, completely overwhelming armor. I'm saying armor is protection. I'm also not coming from a game mechanics standpoint, nor really from a "lore" standpoint. I'm coming from a view of how the world is, when I look at it. It's also not a player focused view. I'm looking at the world of Skyrim that I see, and all of the people, and stories within it. 

 

Similar to your question of having died from a sword or arrow. I'm not looking at it from a gameplay perspective. I'm looking at it from a roleplaying perspective, from the perspective of someone looking for a story. 

 

"If you want your world, with your rules, with your stories, you have it."

I will never say someone can't have their own ideas of how their own stories can play out. I'm saying that it gets me pretty pissed off, seeing these posts saying that "I'm right, your wrong, everyone should see things the way I do." Maybe I'm viewing things in the wrong light? Maybe not. Who knows. 

 

However, each world has it's own rules.

As an example in Phantasy Star Universe a technology is developed to allow full body energy shields to be woven into clothing, this allows people to fight giant monsters even in bikinis.

This makes absolutely no sense in our world, but is perfectly believable within it's world.

 

I use this as an extreme example to show that how the world works isn't going to be the same in a fantasy universe, especially not one like TES where our physics are toast and moons can vanish completely through magic with no consequence (if our own moon was zapped out of the sky one day it'd be an apocalypse).

 

Edit: I really should complete my thoughts before posting, but anyway..

I don't see the problem here. The other poster is explaining the logic of skimpy or impractical armour in a fantasy world. It makes sense, but from your own roleplaying perspective you don't have to agree with it.

I myself rarely use skimpy armour. The only time I do to a great extent is when becoming a Daedra in Oblivion, because fuck you I'm immortal anyway.

That's how I roleplay, and if you want practical armour you're perfectly justified and I don't think the other person was saying otherwise.

[windpl]

I really don't know about what we are arguing now.

 

//Looking on op material

 

So there is boob armour that would make owner lose some limbs

 

And there is most "logic" post about enhancements

 

So we wear totally dump armour where physics would make you hurt yourself but then you use uber op enhancements on it to make it safe

 

I got it right?

[leddis3]

I don't know really.

 

To sum up my own thoughts, I think most vanilla Skyrim armour is perfectly believable, some are a tad impractical *for both women and men*, it's a fantasy setting so it doesn't matter anyway, and mods allow for any number of roleplaying options from ultra skimpy sex bondage latex to heavy flat chested full plate for both genders.

So everybody has a right to their own interpretation in their own game and this entire topic is redundant.

 

*vanishes in a puff of fuzzy logic*

[gregathit]

I'm not saying enchantments don't work. I'm saying enchantments aren't the primary protection, completely overwhelming armor. I'm saying armor is protection. I'm also not coming from a game mechanics standpoint, nor really from a "lore" standpoint. I'm coming from a view of how the world is, when I look at it. It's also not a player focused view. I'm looking at the world of Skyrim that I see, and all of the people, and stories within it. 

 

Similar to your question of having died from a sword or arrow. I'm not looking at it from a gameplay perspective. I'm looking at it from a roleplaying perspective, from the perspective of someone looking for a story. 

 

"If you want your world, with your rules, with your stories, you have it."

I will never say someone can't have their own ideas of how their own stories can play out. I'm saying that it gets me pretty pissed off, seeing these posts saying that "I'm right, your wrong, everyone should see things the way I do." Maybe I'm viewing things in the wrong light? Maybe not. Who knows.

 

Now that is a post that is both logical and rational.  While I don't agree with your perspective, I most certainly can respect your opinion and interpretation.  You are more than welcome to have your vision of what is going on in your game and far be it from me to judge you on it.  That would be silly.  As you say, your game, your rules.  That is the beauty of games that allow modding, you truly can have your cake and eat it too. 

 

I wish instead of posting what you did previously, you would have posted what I just quoted.  No one would have disagreed. 

 

 

 

The original post you attacked however was pointing out both lore and game mechanics and in that regard what he\she said was factual.

[BlitAceRush]

I tried to avoid a lot of things, guess I didn't dodge well enough. 

I wasn't even trying to, nor did I say that 'my way' even though it wasn't my way and was instead a simple point out to the rules and game mechanics Skyrim gives us was the way you all have to see it, nor that it was the law on everything, however it is the fact of the game and how things work by it's own rules.

 

I was simply trying to say that, no matter your armour there is a limit to what metal, leather and all the padding you could fit on the human body can defend against.

I used dragons because, and I'm sorry but they are a major threat, you are the dragonborn, tasked with ending the dragon threat, dragons also fly around the whole of Skyrim, attacking towns, city's and roads as they please, they don't just wait around to fight the dragonborn, they've got people to terrorise. 

Meaning guards, and even the common man/woman may find him/herself running for cover from incoming flame and frost.

That said I did point out a host of other things you'd encounter.

 

Anyway my point was in Skyrim, if an arrow can kill you, anything a Dragon dose will end you, unless you'd like to tell me a flame breath from a dragon, full swing from a giant or a continuous beam of frost magic is weaker than one single arrow.

 

Lets give a non-Skyrim example, the movie Godzilla, bare with me for a moment.

OK so here's my example: 

Godzilla steps on man - man is crushed and dies.

Godzilla steps on solider, wearing body armour and helmet - solider is crushed and dies.

Godzilla steps on tank - tank and all those inside are crushed and die.

 

In this example each person(s) are more protected than the last, yet all of them met the exact same fate, why?

The simple answer is their 'protection' was not enough to stop the overwhelming force for a giant reptiles foot.

Body armour stops bullets, tanks can withstand explosions, both offer great protection against certain things, that dose not however mean they should or will protect against all things.

Everything has a braking point, Godzilla's force is far past either body armour or a tanks tolerances, being in a tank wouldn't mean it 'hurts less' because any protection the tank could give was so overwhelmed by the force brought against it that it failed, and gave no defence. 

 

Just like full plate vs a dragon, no it won't hurt you less if you're wearing armour, if the dragon can smash down a 100 foot stone wall then I'm sorry, but no matter your armour, you are dead.

However if Godzilla tried to crush say, Superman nothing would happen, why? 

Because the superhuman defensive qualities of the man of steel's kryptonian powers are stronger than the force Godzilla could muster against him, so even though looking at the two it would be a no brainer who should win.

The supernatural parts to Superman tip things in favour of him.

 

The same way an enchantment will do the same in Skyrim.

 

Armour has clear limits and fail zones, go past them and the armour won't help you at all, jumping in lava with armour on, the armour will do nothing as larva is past it's fail zone, however jump into lava with a "100% Resist Fire" enchant and you can swim around in whatever you want.

 

At the end of the day, if the complaint was non realistic armour means that, that one arrow will nail my character in the part her armour isn't covering and kill her, then anything stronger than that arrow, and her armour will also kill her, that being everything else.

 

The only way to explain how she doesn't fall over at the first swing of a giant is enchantments, which means armour becomes invalid. 

That was what I was trying to say, never said you had to agree with it, I wasn't trying to make you, my real point was.

 

If you want realism by our rules everything that's beyond our world has to go, as basing armour realism on what our world did, then saying now fight dragons, Superman and god knows what else with it, makes little sense.

Things are made/created out of need, if superman was real and our greatest threat, then would anyone wear armour? hell no, it'd be useless.

We'd all go minecraft on him and don some emerald green kryptonite armour, would it stop bullets? hell no, but it would defend me against the threat at hand, and that's the point. 

 

Our worlds armour was designed to deal with people and the weapons people could make, nothing more, nothing less. 

In fantasy, defences are made to deal with the threats in that world, and where armour fails, things like enchantments and forcefields and other sci-fi tech/magical mechanics step in to explain how characters survive blows their armour couldn't handle.

 

Edit: To return to the OP post.

Boob armour, maybe not the most practical thing, looks pretty though  

Some will like it, others will hate it.

Beauty of choice is, we don't all have to agree.

Beauty of mods is, don't like it? change it!

And thus everything is good, all is well and we're all happy, right? ....right?

[windpl]

I think that you add to much credit.

Reason for player not dying from first swing of giant is game mechanic, reason why he isn't burning alive from fire breath is game mechanic. Health is a game mechanic created for games need, it make game at last playable and allows player to make errors without punishing him to much.

 

But and end I still don't know what point you want to make.

[AKM]

Whatever happened to "It's a GAME people!  I'll do with it what I want, you do what you want.  It's not reality.   There's no need to inject your silly notions of "truth" into it.  Flat armor, indeed!  Tell you what.  I won't gripe about your rediculous DMRA model women, and you don't gripe about my rediculous shapely female armor.  Deal?"...?

[chevyowner]

Plate armour isn't that heavy. Full harness would usually weigh around 50 pounds, about half that of the modern fully equipped Marine.

 

Not to mention that the heaviest plating would be on the torso and head ( usually around a 14 to 15 gauge thickness ) in contrast to the arms and legs which usually were made around a 16 to 17 gauge of thickness, and all of this weight pretty distributed  all over the body.

 

 

As for the upper chest/breast area of the plate jutting out? This is actually a feature on certain later end armours that angle out a bit more so that it would deflect weapons better. The same idea was actually used on armoured Tanks when they decided to use hard, right angles for the chassis. 

 

Now, when there's an indent in the breast area, this creates a sort of vice that would make an opposing blade slip straight into the middle inbetween the breasts. In most situations, not a problem, as steel IS steel... It's just that when you're well grounded against the earth or a wall, this gives little room for flexibility and max leverage for penetration for something like the pointy end of a Halberd or a focused, Half-Sworded thrust.

 

14 Gauge steel plate weighs about 3 pounds per square inch.

16 Gauge steel plate weighs about 2.5 pounds per square inch.

18 Gauge steel plate weighs about 2 pounds per square inch.

 

I can see that getting heavy fast.

[windpl]

Whatever happened to "It's a GAME people!  I'll do with it what I want, you do what you want.  It's not reality.   There's no need to inject your silly notions of "truth" into it.  Flat armor, indeed!  Tell you what.  I won't gripe about your rediculous DMRA model women, and you don't gripe about my rediculous shapely female armor.  Deal?"...?

 

Read entire thread and come back.

[Koko.Hekmatyar]

Here is a good example of plate armor that looks believable yet still has the look of being made specifically for a male body as well as a female body.

 

Male Plate Armor

 

 

 

Female Plate Armor

 

 

[Halstrom]

Here is a good example of plate armor that looks believable yet still has the look of being made specifically for a male body as well as a female body.

 

 

Well at least that provides plenty of chest support for horse riding, though the chain & padding underneath would also need to be tailored to surround the boobs of course to be comfortable 

[Pork Type]

I really don't give a flying fuck anymore. Barrels down in the bowels of a barrow are somehow able to keep apples and cheese wedges fresh since the Merethic era. I attribute that same mysterious form of magic to my boob plate armor. My girl's asscheeks don't get frostbitten while up near Winterhold due to magical built-in bunwarming.

 

I play games to ESCAPE reality. not to re-create it.

 

[windpl]

I really don't give a flying fuck anymore. Barrels down in the bowels of a barrow are somehow able to keep apples and cheese wedges fresh since the Merethic era. I attribute that same mysterious form of magic to my boob plate armor. My girl's asscheeks don't get frostbitten while up near Winterhold due to magical built-in bunwarming.

 

I play games to ESCAPE reality. not to re-create it.

 

For you it is escape, for me it is a hobby. Then there is conflict of interest here.

[jonas_opines]

For you it is escape, for me it is a hobby. Then there is conflict of interest here.

 

Since you're not playing the same game, there should be no conflict at all.  If you're sharing computers, then I suppose that would be a different case.

 

/in other news: this topic is still going?  I'm sure that means we've Almost reached consensus, right?

 

/right?

[Duoleb The Chosen]

Here is a good example of plate armor that looks believable yet still has the look of being made specifically for a male body as well as a female body.

 

Male Plate Armor

 

 

 

Female Plate Armor

 

 

 

oh Lost paladin set =(, i hope jerros manages to finish up the mod

 

[gregathit]

Agincourt was a unique situation that was more a factor of piss poor tactics and the "type" of mud that was on the field than the weight of the armor.  Check out the histories detective series as they go through all the factors.  It is very interesting and dispels the myth of the "longbow" winning the battle.

 

 

Another "armor" link talking about the weight of armor and its impact on the warrior: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2016732/Why-French-lost-Battle-Agincourt-Heavy-armour-troops-exhausted-fight.html