Rayblue Posted May 9, 2013 Posted May 9, 2013 http://www.tor.com/blogs/2013/05/boob-plate-armor-would-kill-you Came across this on my Twitter. On one hand such armor may be impractical in real life and combat that asides from the weight issues, not every woman warrior could easily fit into the same piece of armor (in medieval times I think nobility had sets of custom-made armor suits -- never for the common folk), and so there comes the issue of comfort and mobility (I once read that bulletproof vests for female cops with bigger breasts had issues wearing them). On the other, if a fantasy writer wanted to sell his/her stories, they like to have the most appealing book cover illustration possible and if the main character is a woman, of course she'll be wearing boob plate armor, regardless of whatever reality tells them. As I play Skyrim, I like my game to be realistic to a certain extent, but not too much that it becomes unplayable.
Cezul Posted May 9, 2013 Posted May 9, 2013 Eh, they're just making an issue out of nothing I think. Honestly I think both types of armours are pretty cool. I also always personally figured that 'revealing boob plate' armours are more for distraction/evasion type characters like Sword Dancers or whatever.
gregathit Posted May 9, 2013 Posted May 9, 2013 First off, VERY SMALL amounts of armor were custom tailored to soldiers. Even most knights often didn't have this as it was so F'ing expensive. Many knights "inherited" their armors from their father or other relatives. A full suit of plate armor was something like 100 times a soldiers yearly base pay. Most picked up pieces and augmented their armor as they went. Chain, leather or just thick quilted armors were far more prevalent. As to the whole "SCIENCE" bit.......he is full of shit. The same padding that makes armor gender irrelevant, would have padded a female who was struck or fell on the ground. Likewise a sword would simply glance off of the empty breast cavity and simply be deflected. There isn't any real harm to having the armor jut out and if you were to put spikes at the nipples you could even use this as a weapon. Further, knights in full plate armor often didn't survive "falling down" as the armor was so damn heavy it was hard for them to struggle up. Full plate was mainly designed for mounted combat. Now where the issue would come into play is that if the breasts were too "big" then you might limit your ability to use two handed weapons and such as the plate boobs would not give at all. Long story short.....yep.....just another tard making a big deal out of nothing.
Halstrom Posted May 9, 2013 Posted May 9, 2013 I have a theory that boob shaped armor could be more comfortable and supportive than having breasts bound, they might well wear the armour for a lot of hours bouncing around on a horse before engaging in 1 hour of actual combat.
Astaroth-Lite Posted May 9, 2013 Posted May 9, 2013 I feel incredibly happy whenever I see women wearing practical outfits in video games. Like, it's such a rare sight, it ends up being a more exciting thing to see.
gregathit Posted May 9, 2013 Posted May 9, 2013 I feel incredibly happy whenever I see women wearing practical outfits in video games. Like, it's such a rare sight, it ends up being a more exciting thing to see. I guess I feel quite the opposite. I like my game chicks to be a bit racy myself. It is the real life chicks wearing shit that you can tell just by looking, that it has got to be killing them that bothers me.
Rayblue Posted May 9, 2013 Author Posted May 9, 2013 If a woman were to engage in close-in combat, I feel that considering that thicker armor would put a female combatant at disadvantage, prior training would emphasize more on agility, timing, reflexes, all the while using more flexible and lightweight but thinner armor. I haven't read much fantasy fiction other than LOTR, but I think those authors after Tolkien would emphasize more on how a heroine would survive fighting by the skin of her teeth than a complete description and functionality of her armor.
Astaroth-Lite Posted May 9, 2013 Posted May 9, 2013 I guess I feel quite the opposite. I like my game chicks to be a bit racy myself. It is the real life chicks wearing shit that you can tell just by looking, that it has got to be killing them that bothers me. I can't imagine a chainmail bikini would be all that comfortable to wear, and I don't think I'd ever really want to try it out. If a woman were to engage in close-in combat, I feel that considering that thicker armor would put a female combatant at disadvantage, prior training would emphasize more on agility, timing, reflexes, all the while using more flexible and lightweight but thinner armor. Practical metal armor is designed to not hinder movement in any way, to be flexible where it needs to be and ridged everywhere else. Medieval designs are surprisingly sophisticated that way. But then even males get impractical armor, with huge, ornate pieces; especially when it comes to pauldrons. If someone where to wear armor pulled out of Warhammer, that person would have a very hard time being able to move around, keep balance, and even see properly. It would be just as huge a disadvantage to go overboard as it would be to go skimpy; perhaps even more so.
formel Posted May 9, 2013 Posted May 9, 2013 I don't mind non functional armor in fantasy scenarios. I mean that's what fantasy for to picture things that never existed in reality. A lot of the armors used in these settings are not that fuctional also the ones men wears. One may complain about the disproportionateness when it comes to sexy armors for males. That is something what has to cahnge, women should have the same opportunities to look at have naked males, as we men have to look at have naked females.
Astaroth-Lite Posted May 9, 2013 Posted May 9, 2013 *cough*Conanthebarbarianyourargumentisinvalid*cough*
Cezul Posted May 9, 2013 Posted May 9, 2013 Further, knights in full plate armor often didn't survive "falling down" as the armor was so damn heavy it was hard for them to struggle up. Full plate was mainly designed for mounted combat. Plate armour isn't that heavy. Full harness would usually weigh around 50 pounds, about half that of the modern fully equipped Marine. Not to mention that the heaviest plating would be on the torso and head ( usually around a 14 to 15 gauge thickness ) in contrast to the arms and legs which usually were made around a 16 to 17 gauge of thickness, and all of this weight pretty distributed all over the body. As for the upper chest/breast area of the plate jutting out? This is actually a feature on certain later end armours that angle out a bit more so that it would deflect weapons better. The same idea was actually used on armoured Tanks when they decided to use hard, right angles for the chassis. Now, when there's an indent in the breast area, this creates a sort of vice that would make an opposing blade slip straight into the middle inbetween the breasts. In most situations, not a problem, as steel IS steel... It's just that when you're well grounded against the earth or a wall, this gives little room for flexibility and max leverage for penetration for something like the pointy end of a Halberd or a focused, Half-Sworded thrust.
formel Posted May 9, 2013 Posted May 9, 2013 If confronted with a swung sword which comes from the side the breast form dosen't matter but when it comes to any kind of thrusted attack a jutting out breastplate is a huge advantage. And considering that the wearer of these armors used to fight form the back of a horse they were far more often confronted with thrustings such as spears, lances etc.
windpl Posted May 9, 2013 Posted May 9, 2013 Further, knights in full plate armor often didn't survive "falling down" as the armor was so damn heavy it was hard for them to struggle up. Full plate was mainly designed for mounted combat. Plate armour isn't that heavy. Full harness would usually weigh around 50 pounds, about half that of the modern fully equipped Marine. Not to mention that the heaviest plating would be on the torso and head ( usually around a 14 to 15 gauge thickness ) in contrast to the arms and legs which usually were made around a 16 to 17 gauge of thickness, and all of this weight pretty distributed all over the body. As for the upper chest/breast area of the plate jutting out? This is actually a feature on certain later end armours that angle out a bit more so that it would deflect weapons better. The same idea was actually used on armoured Tanks when they decided to use hard, right angles for the chassis. Now, when there's an indent in the breast area, this creates a sort of vice that would make an opposing blade slip straight into the middle inbetween the breasts. In most situations, not a problem, as steel IS steel... It's just that when you're well grounded against the earth or a wall, this gives little room for flexibility and max leverage for penetration for something like the pointy end of a Halberd or a focused, Half-Sworded thrust. No, plate is freaking fucking heavy. Only mounted knights were wearing plated. Foot knights were wearing chainmail or half plate(single elements of plate armour). Any 1v1 foot fight would end bad for full plate wearer. Later more advanced plate was lighter due to material used and it thickness (it was less thick but bend)
gregathit Posted May 9, 2013 Posted May 9, 2013 Weights of full plate varied per country and per time period. It also varied greatly for those who fought as mounted or those who fought on foot. Finally factor in the wealth of the individual who had the armor made for them. With all of these variables you can't begin to address the actual weights nor can you begin to address how articulated the armor might be. Due to cost only the wealthy had full plate in any period. Unless they stole it from the dead. Most sources list out full plate for foot between 50 to 150 lbs (150 being mounted knights), but that does not generally include the helm and also does not include weapons. Another thing that is not included is the padding that was worn underneath the armor. By the time a foot knight is fully outfitted they really are going to be pushing upwards of 110 to 150 lbs. Now what really makes this a terrible thing is that it is so damn hot and you have no way of quickly shedding any of it. ----------------------------- Now the one thing that "might" not be so good about big boobs sticking out is balance. If the boobs were too large it might throw off the balance for the gal. As to the whole swords deal. Full plate armor doesn't give two shits about a sword. Thrusting a sword at plate armor is an exercise in futility and would have been fatal to the dummy doing the thrusting. Typically full plate was attacked with halberds from a distance or for the up close and personal using maces and war hammers. The idea being to smash parts of the armor to dent it causing blunt trauma or to punch a hole in the armor.
Nonsense667 Posted May 9, 2013 Posted May 9, 2013 This place helps keep me sane sometimes. http://womenfighters.tumblr.com/ Edit: Oh, and here's an article from someone who makes armore: http://madartlab.com/2011/12/14/fantasy-armor-and-lady-bits/ Edit: Though to be honest, I'm not a huge stickler for anything not realistic. I hate the chainmail bikini's and crap like that, essentially, if it shows more skin than it covers. But other than that, especially things like "boob plate," if done in any manner that simply makes it still look like armor, I really don't mind.
windpl Posted May 9, 2013 Posted May 9, 2013 Watch this. Really, watch it. Yes plate was so light that battle of Agincour went so good for heavy armoured French knights vs English light infantry, and actualy plate by that time was a much lighter than in previous periods.
Astaroth-Lite Posted May 9, 2013 Posted May 9, 2013 isolated case An isolated case that has influenced a basic character archetype and has more or less started and shaped the entire fantasy genre? Watch this. Really, watch it. That was really great! Thank you. This place helps keep me sane sometimes. http://womenfighters.tumblr.com/ This too! Thank you as well.
nonusnomeni Posted May 10, 2013 Posted May 10, 2013 1. reality???dragons, trolls, giants, sabrecats, khajits??? 2.http://www.veoh.com/watch/v6262390w2F7hs8W?h1=Battlefield+Detectives+-+Agincourt%27s+Dark+Secrets
windpl Posted May 10, 2013 Posted May 10, 2013 1. reality???dragons, trolls, giants, sabrecats, khajits??? 2.http://www.veoh.com/watch/v6262390w2F7hs8W?h1=Battlefield+Detectives+-+Agincourt%27s+Dark+Secrets I have seen that, in that material there is error. English archers used armour piercing shafts(archaeologists found them on battlefield) so it would easy penetrate that piece of metal that they showed there. French had their armour bend so arrow would just slide off if shoot from afar. - so idea stays the same archers couldn't hurt knights but, they could hurt their horses - effectively killing French manoeuvrability and shock effect.
Astaroth-Lite Posted May 10, 2013 Posted May 10, 2013 1. reality???dragons, trolls, giants, sabrecats, khajits??? 2.http://www.veoh.com/watch/v6262390w2F7hs8W?h1=Battlefield+Detectives+-+Agincourt%27s+Dark+Secrets This is why I don't like using the term "realistic" for such a conversation. "Plausibility" would be more apt.
Nonsense667 Posted May 10, 2013 Posted May 10, 2013 It's not about being "realistic." It's about being "believable." I can believe that a woman might be wearing armor that happens to show a bit of her stomach, or that is formed to show off her chest in a certain way. Just like how I can believe, in a fantasy world, that dragons, monsters, and magic can exist. It's harder for me to imagine it being a commonality for the women to be going into battle with metal bikinis. And yes, I can completely and totally understand how for some, the idea of "believability " is laughably a non-issue. Obviously different people have different tastes, and different wants from their entertainment. It doesn't make any particular view wrong. People aren't wrong for liking bikini armor. But people also aren't wrong for wanting their games to have armor that is more believable. Understanding has to go both ways. Believable armor VS unbelievable armor. And yes, the believable one still has a massive boobplate. Doesn't mean I can't envision her wearing that into battle. (And sorry that you have to open it in a new tab, direct linking isn't working.) http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Female+Armour.+Super+simple+stuff_50d06c_3949682.jpg
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