Random Overlay Framework

[rubber_duck]

Minor issue:

Latest version doesn't offer to disable the ColorOverlays - it gets installed whether I have the master (original mod) installed or not.

 

Also, and I'm sorry for saying this, but while I genuinely love your work, you're making a mess out of it. Seriously, what the hell.

 

For example, v2.35 featured 2 MCM menus: OverlayFramework and OverlayFramework_Advanced. The latest version (v2.425), also features 2 MCM menus, but you've changed the names to OverlayFramework_Basic and OverlayFramework_Factions. I hope that my MCM Settings Manager will work, but I wouldn't bet on it.

 

Then there's the distribution - while I like the variety, I feel like RobCo Patcher is the only proper way to advance the development of this framework. All these extra (inferior, in my opinion) choices don't really have a purpose, other than simply confusing the Player during the installation.

 

Finally, there's the changelog. You're not updating this framework that frequently, and I don't mind that at all. What I do mind is when you write 'and quite a few changes (that I have forgotten about)' in it. If you're not keeping track of your own development, you'll create even larger mess out of it. There are a lot of tools available for tracking your progress; and it could really improve your workflow.

 

I'm sorry if all this sounded bad, that wasn't my intention. I'm just pointing out what I, as a player and (old) user of this Framework, think is wrong. Adding a bunch of features surely is nice, but you definitely have to draw a line somewhere and stop. Otherwise you'll end up swimming in such a mess.

 

Take your time and organize yourself; keep track of what you're doing and invest a bit more time in writing better instructions, changelogs, etc. I know it's a boring and tedious task, but trust me - it'll be worth it.

 

Hopefully you find this critique useful. Keep up the good work and take care!

[deathmorph]

I installed BodyColorsOverlay in addition to the new version as that seems to be a hard requirement. However, my problem now is that immediately afterwards my Tactical Flashlights lamp and various clothing disappeared. However, when I go into the containers or corpses, these things are displayed, but with 0.

I described this problem here and also attached a screenshot there. After uninstalling and installing the previous version everything was fine again.

From my point of view, one of the two mods will be responsible for this, although I don't know which one yet.

[Invictusblade]

17 hours ago, rubber_duck said:

Minor issue:

Latest version doesn't offer to disable the ColorOverlays - it gets installed whether I have the master (original mod) installed or not.

 

Also, and I'm sorry for saying this, but while I genuinely love your work, you're making a mess out of it. Seriously, what the hell.

 

For example, v2.35 featured 2 MCM menus: OverlayFramework and OverlayFramework_Advanced. The latest version (v2.425), also features 2 MCM menus, but you've changed the names to OverlayFramework_Basic and OverlayFramework_Factions. I hope that my MCM Settings Manager will work, but I wouldn't bet on it.

 

Then there's the distribution - while I like the variety, I feel like RobCo Patcher is the only proper way to advance the development of this framework. All these extra (inferior, in my opinion) choices don't really have a purpose, other than simply confusing the Player during the installation.

 

Finally, there's the changelog. You're not updating this framework that frequently, and I don't mind that at all. What I do mind is when you write 'and quite a few changes (that I have forgotten about)' in it. If you're not keeping track of your own development, you'll create even larger mess out of it. There are a lot of tools available for tracking your progress; and it could really improve your workflow.

 

I'm sorry if all this sounded bad, that wasn't my intention. I'm just pointing out what I, as a player and (old) user of this Framework, think is wrong. Adding a bunch of features surely is nice, but you definitely have to draw a line somewhere and stop. Otherwise you'll end up swimming in such a mess.

 

Take your time and organize yourself; keep track of what you're doing and invest a bit more time in writing better instructions, changelogs, etc. I know it's a boring and tedious task, but trust me - it'll be worth it.

 

Hopefully you find this critique useful. Keep up the good work and take care!

1. about Body_ColorOverlay, I should have put the FOMOD option to "At most 1" or "any" instead of "at least 1"

 

2. so there is a lot of options in ROF, with all of the factions so in the previous version (v2.35ish) there were 231 options

in the current version, there is 111 options for factions

but some players won't bother with the faction options, they would only use the general options so I decided to divide the options (but it took a bit of time(and versions) to sort it out)

so there is a Faction MCM with a single option (to enable or disable Factions)

*did I put in the changelog, that you might need to reset the MCM quests? (I think I wrote it down in the one of the posts but I am not sure if I copied and pasted that one)

 

 

3. the distribution model is such, that if you are still using SPID then I will still support it, but Robco patcher is alot better considering one of the latest changes that allows NPCs (both living and dead(more importantly) to receive faction manager armors.

 

4. about the changelog, while I try to have a plan, I usually need to backtrack scripts and sometimes, I forget to write them down. especially now, after coming from a break.

12 hours ago, deathmorph said:

I installed BodyColorsOverlay in addition to the new version as that seems to be a hard requirement. However, my problem now is that immediately afterwards my Tactical Flashlights lamp and various clothing disappeared. However, when I go into the containers or corpses, these things are displayed, but with 0.

I described this problem here and also attached a screenshot there. After uninstalling and installing the previous version everything was fine again.

From my point of view, one of the two mods will be responsible for this, although I don't know which one yet.

 

maybe it is slot issue, I will have a look (could be the faction armor(if enabled) or the pubic hair(if enabled)

I will have a look at the Tactical Flashlights mod

 

[deathmorph]

4 hours ago, Invictusblade said:

I will have a look at the Tactical Flashlights mod

 

Thank you very much, I just want to note that the problem is not only limited to the Tactical Flashlight Mod, but also occurs with Vanilla Clothing+CCO Replacer. I didn't notice anything else because I pulled the emergency brake.
In both versions I installed the first option (robco), the simplified selection, the Death Body fix. I left everything else open.
And the new version could not be installed without ColorOverlays.

[vaultbait]

7 hours ago, Invictusblade said:

about the changelog, while I try to have a plan, I usually need to backtrack scripts and sometimes, I forget to write them down. especially now, after coming from a break.

 

What I find helps is that I keep the changelog open in an editor tab whenever I'm working with a section for my not-yet-released version, and take notes in there about what I'm working on. When I get ready to release, I check over what I've put in there and clean it up a bit if something's not quite right. If I didn't do that, I'd completely forget what I've added/changed/removed.

[Invictusblade]

I made the changes to FOMOD and posted the update

[lee3310]

I just downloaded this mod to try on a new game (looks very promising), but i feel like i'm missing some key informations : I chose the armor distribution methods (V2.425_2):

• I understand that "replacer" mean compacted plugins (flagged as esl).
• I can't find anything related to Porcupine's mods in FOMOD (in the comments, there is a mention of a newer quest system that replaced the armor method !, didn't see it in FOMOD) and when you say "no armor yet" it means that the overlay needs to be applied manually via MCM (or change dis method) ?
• Since i couldn't find Porcupine pubic hair in FOMOD, i chose "LooksMenu - Pubes Forever" but that mode requires some adjustments to work with FG, is there a way to do them in script rather than manually using looksmenu UI ?

 

[rubber_duck]

3 hours ago, Invictusblade said:

I made the changes to FOMOD and posted the update

 

While I appreciate the update and the fact that you fixed the installer, I couldn't help but notice that you changed MCM. Again.

 

Seriously, man, you've got to do something about it! ROF isn't exactly a small mod, and for stuff like this, MCM Settings Manager is a must. However, if you keep changing the MCM menus, the Settings Manager is useless and us players need to tweak it manually, which does take time.

 

Put it on a drawing board if you have to, create a MCM menu (or menus, like you have right now) and stick with it. Seriously, this is both funny and frustrating at the same time.

 

Hopefully the next version won't have these issues, but I wouldn't be surprised if it does.

 

Nonetheless, keep up the good work and take care! And for crying out loud, don't change MCM Menus for the next version!

[Invictusblade]

10 hours ago, lee3310 said:

I just downloaded this mod to try on a new game (looks very promising), but i feel like i'm missing some key informations : I chose the armor distribution methods (V2.425_2):

• I understand that "replacer" mean compacted plugins (flagged as esl).
• I can't find anything related to Porcupine's mods in FOMOD (in the comments, there is a mention of a newer quest system that replaced the armor method !, didn't see it in FOMOD) and when you say "no armor yet" it means that the overlay needs to be applied manually via MCM (or change dis method) ?
• Since i couldn't find Porcupine pubic hair in FOMOD, i chose "LooksMenu - Pubes Forever" but that mode requires some adjustments to work with FG, is there a way to do them in script rather than manually using looksmenu UI ?

 

so I haven't added them to this selection of files (apparently Porcupine will be changing some of the overlays in the future

 

so I will explain again (It been mentioned before in a page or so ago)

so in ROF, there are two methods of giving out overlays to NPCs

 

1. Quest (New Method) = This simply contains the strings from the overlay mods (and there is nothing else) *Porcupine is included in this mode

2. Armor (Old Method) = This contains armors that is equipped which then gives an overlay to the NPC (these armors(not quite) are also included in vendor leveled lists and as recipes)

*Porcupine is not included in this mode

 

one of the other reasons why I haven't done porcupine's overlays is because I am wondering about removing the old method from the mod. (because the new method works great at the moment) *there were performance issues with the new method which I have since fixed

 

This has nothing to do with the distribution of the Faction Managers (which controls the above)

 

10 hours ago, rubber_duck said:

 

While I appreciate the update and the fact that you fixed the installer, I couldn't help but notice that you changed MCM. Again.

 

Seriously, man, you've got to do something about it! ROF isn't exactly a small mod, and for stuff like this, MCM Settings Manager is a must. However, if you keep changing the MCM menus, the Settings Manager is useless and us players need to tweak it manually, which does take time.

 

Put it on a drawing board if you have to, create a MCM menu (or menus, like you have right now) and stick with it. Seriously, this is both funny and frustrating at the same time.

 

Hopefully the next version won't have these issues, but I wouldn't be surprised if it does.

 

Nonetheless, keep up the good work and take care! And for crying out loud, don't change MCM Menus for the next version!

well I did decide to change the MCM system because it became too big.

but truthfully, I probability didn't need to divide the MCM's when I cut the options from 230 faction options to 110 faction options but that happened after I already divided the MCM script so it became easier to keep the new system.

 

 

also you can easily transfer the settings from the old setting to the new systems by copying and pasting the setting to the new settings files

 

copy from "INVB_OverlayFramework.ini" (or just make a copy of it and rename it to the following)

and paste into "INVB_OverlayFramework_Basic.ini" and "INVB_OverlayFramework_Factions.ini"

[LoveBob]

2 hours ago, Invictusblade said:

so I haven't added them to this selection of files (apparently Porcupine will be changing some of the overlays in the future

 

so I will explain again (It been mentioned before in a page or so ago)

so in ROF, there are two methods of giving out overlays to NPCs

 

1. Quest (New Method) = This simply contains the strings from the overlay mods (and there is nothing else) *Porcupine is included in this mode

2. Armor (Old Method) = This contains armors that is equipped which then gives an overlay to the NPC (these armors(not quite) are also included in vendor leveled lists and as recipes)

*Porcupine is not included in this mode

 

one of the other reasons why I haven't done porcupine's overlays is because I am wondering about removing the old method from the mod. (because the new method works great at the moment) *there were performance issues with the new method which I have since fixed

 

This has nothing to do with the distribution of the Faction Managers (which controls the above)

 

Sorry, maybe I misunderstood something. Referring to your explanation of how the overlays are distributed, I have the following selection when installing the new version 2.425

 

 

If the distribution via armor is outdated, why is it recommended during installation?

And is the Spell or the Perk variant the new quest method or is it not listed at all?

So which one should I choose when I reinstall it to follow your idea of the mod?

 

Thank you for your work! ❤️

[lee3310]

3 hours ago, Invictusblade said:

so I will explain again (It been mentioned before in a page or so ago)

so in ROF, there are two methods of giving out overlays to NPCs

Yeah, i read that comment but i didn't find anything related to "quest method" in the FOMOD. Since "armor" was the recommended option, i went with that and the only quest script i have is the one handling MCM.
Edit: i chose the packed version and not all the sources files are in the ba2:

So the quest is enabled by default.
Are you using another quest to distribute overlays ? on location change for exemple ? or is it just for applying them manually in MCM. I'll try to figure it out.

  

3 hours ago, Invictusblade said:

so I haven't added them to this selection of files (apparently Porcupine will be changing some of the overlays in the future

IIUC, Porcupine overlays needs to be applied manually via MCM (not distributed via armors).

Edited November 4, 2023 by lee3310

[Jeffey67]

9 hours ago, lee3310 said:

 

  

IIUC, Porcupine overlays needs to be applied manually via MCM (not distributed via armors).

Yeah, only via Quest method. 

[lee3310]

18 minutes ago, Jeffey67 said:

Yeah, only via Quest method. 

Ah, i hope this will change very soon especially for pube overlays, i looked at different mods and i prefer yours.
PS
For the esl version, you forgot to change the folder name to match the plugin name (.esl), otherwise you won't find any overlay in looksmenu UI  "F4SE\Plugins\F4EE\Overlays\porcPubes.esl"
I'll leave a comment on the mod page too.

[Invictusblade]

21 hours ago, LoveBob said:

 

Sorry, maybe I misunderstood something. Referring to your explanation of how the overlays are distributed, I have the following selection when installing the new version 2.425

 

 

If the distribution via armor is outdated, why is it recommended during installation?

And is the Spell or the Perk variant the new quest method or is it not listed at all?

So which one should I choose when I reinstall it to follow your idea of the mod?

 

Thank you for your work! ❤️

There are two different armor distribution methods (Faction and overlay)

 

The FOMOD option is the Faction Manager Distribution

so all of the FOMOD options work in roughly the same way (only slight differences)

 

Armor = Works on both Living and Dead NPCs which then triggers the manager quest

Spell = Casts a spell on a NPC to trigger the manager quest (Leaves no evidence) *but it doesn't work on spawned dead NPCs.

Perk = Casts a spell on a NPC to trigger the manager quest (leaves evidence) *I used it for debugging purposes and it was a failed attempt to get dead bodies to work

 

This quest/spell/Armor reads the NPC's Faction and then applies a quest or Armor(hence the MCM option) to said NPC,

if no faction is found(or is disabled) then the general overlay manager is chosen.

 

The MCM option is the Overlay Manager Distribution system

 

so both overlay Managers work in roughly the same way,

The quest manager triggers various overlay quests(such as Right Leg, Left Arm, and many more)

 

and the armor manager gets/equips items from leveled lists which is supplied by the plugins found in the middle pages of the FOMOD. These are considered to outdated with more limited overlays options. (the quest system is a lot easier to work with)

 

also the armor system was faster until I fixed the performance issues with the quest system (now, they are roughly the same speed)

however there is a purpose with the armor overlays which is that they can be purchased at some vendors.

 

(it was an idea I took from Planescape Torment, the idea of tattoo containing special abilities as well as the ability to remove said tattoos easily)

*I had a vision of a player having a blank canvas to play around with.

 

 

 

 

I need to make a flow chart to better describe the process. (I got myself a bit lost while writing this)

Edited November 5, 2023 by Invictusblade

[lee3310]

Ok i think i finally get it: The quest is enabled in MCM not FOMOD (by default), with this method, the mod only requires one armor do be distributed then calls quests functions. All the extra stuff (armors, LLs, plugins replacement/edits, script injections...) is superfluous, only there for backward compatibility i guess.
Man, it wasn't easy to navigate, i really hope that you will upload a new trimmed version with just the quest system for new users or update the FOMOD to include it. I already made an armor for Porcupin mods before realizing that it was for nothing. 

Edited November 5, 2023 by lee3310

[Jeffey67]

21 hours ago, lee3310 said:

Ah, i hope this will change very soon especially for pube overlays, i looked at different mods and i prefer yours.
PS
For the esl version, you forgot to change the folder name to match the plugin name (.esl), otherwise you won't find any overlay in looksmenu UI  "F4SE\Plugins\F4EE\Overlays\porcPubes.esl"
I'll leave a comment on the mod page too.

Oh, indeed. My fault( Thank you! I'll fix it now

[Invictusblade]

51 minutes ago, lee3310 said:

Ok i think i finally get it: The quest is enabled in MCM not FOMOD (by default), with this method, the mod only requires one armor do be distributed then calls quests functions. All the extra stuff (armors, LLs, plugins replacement/edits, script injections...) is superfluous, only there for backward compatibility i guess.
Man, it wasn't easy to navigate, i really hope that you will upload a new trimmed version with just the quest system for new users or update the FOMOD to include it. I already made an armor for Porcupin mods before realizing that it was for nothing. 

well I did say(somewhere) that I will be doing a major cleanup for my Mods (and ROF is one of them)

 

so I will have a look at the deleting the following

DLC Content (I still have the globals for the Nukaworld gangs and Far Harbor) *I thought there was going to be more content for them.

Armors(Overlays) = they are old and out of date (and doesn't contain the body overlays)

and I will have another look at the debugging messages because it is overwhelming.

 

and I am not sure about the hair options because they are still critically buggy (you should never use them twice with certain hairs) *it leaves extra hair parts

 

 

I will keep the FOMOD distribution options because there are reasons for keeping them.

I will be keeping the current MCM system because I am fairly happy with the current setup. (maybe remove one or two options)

56 minutes ago, lee3310 said:

Ok i think i finally get it: The quest is enabled in MCM not FOMOD (by default), with this method, the mod only requires one armor do be distributed then calls quests functions. All the extra stuff (armors, LLs, plugins replacement/edits, script injections...) is superfluous, only there for backward compatibility i guess.
Man, it wasn't easy to navigate, i really hope that you will upload a new trimmed version with just the quest system for new users or update the FOMOD to include it. I already made an armor for Porcupin mods before realizing that it was for nothing. 

well, here is the thing about the armors vs quests I did say it in the download page

 

This adds the Pubic Hair Overlays from Porcupine's PubicHairs v1b (No Armor replacer yet) *but they will work in Quest Mode
https://www.loverslab.com/files/file/28178-porcupines-pubichairs/

Body Hair
This adds the Body Hair Overlays from good0593's NPC Male Bodies (No Armor replacer) *but they will work in Quest Mode
https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/38676

Skin Overlays
This adds the Skin Overlays from Porcupine's Skin Overlays 1a (No Armor replacer yet) *but they will work in Quest Mode
https://www.loverslab.com/files/file/28232-porcupines-skin-overlays/

 

[lee3310]

3 hours ago, Invictusblade said:

(No Armor replacer yet) *but they will work in Quest Mode

Yeah but unfortunately, i didn't get it. When you said quest mod, i immediately start looking for RefColls and location change events... but found nothing like that so i start looking at armor scripts (since the FOMOD was stating "armor distribution") and i thought that only assets from edited plugins (with new armors and injected LLs) are distributed.
Anyway, i lost the whole weekend ? (the few hours i had to play) but this mod worth it. I was mainly concerned about persistence issues but so far, i didn't find any script var or properties (event, linkedRef, MGEF....) that could make a ref persistent (i lost my previous save due to persistence issues).
The MCM wasn't hard to understand, very detailed and offers a lot of freedom but that comes at a price i suppose ? (script latency maybe ?). Recently, i tried a while loop with 10,000+ iterations:

• with only function calls in it, you don't notice anything.
• With one if statement and a mod like "Baka MaxPapyrusOps" installed, FPS drops to 49-50 for almost 1 minute.
• With 3 if statements, game freezes completely til the end of the loop (10+ secs).

Edited November 6, 2023 by lee3310

[Invictusblade]

so what word do you guys want me to use for Quest vs Armor? (both contains scripts, so I don't think I can say armor vs scripted)

 

[Jeffey67]

2 hours ago, Invictusblade said:

so what word do you guys want me to use for Quest vs Armor? (both contains scripts, so I don't think I can say armor vs scripted)

 

As for me, Quest method is more preferable. Cos when I've used armor, all overlays was applying one after another without end, till poor nps turnes in whole black spot. Another words didn't work for me. However, I didn't try last versions. 

[lee3310]

3 hours ago, Invictusblade said:

so what word do you guys want me to use for Quest vs Armor? (both contains scripts, so I don't think I can say armor vs scripted)

 

Technically, it's an armor based method, the overlays are still distributed via armor injection (not spell, perk or quest alias), hence the confusion. Anyway, the mod is working and that's what it matters, (i tried the MCM debug functions). I only have one question:
For the NPCs that aren't part of any listed factions (neighbors, scavengers...) the mod will use the general chance values for them (first MCM) ? or did i miss a page in the faction MCM that handles custom NPCs (can't check right now).

Edited November 6, 2023 by lee3310

[Invictusblade]

13 hours ago, lee3310 said:

Technically, it's an armor based method, the overlays are still distributed via armor injection (not spell, perk or quest alias), hence the confusion. Anyway, the mod is working and that's what it matters, (i tried the MCM debug functions). I only have one question:
For the NPCs that aren't part of any listed factions (neighbors, scavengers...) the mod will use the general chance values for them (first MCM) ? or did i miss a page in the faction MCM that handles custom NPCs (can't check right now).

everyone other than the listed factions would use the general option list

however a selection of Non-Settler NPC's might be classify as settler in this system (Caravan and Covenant)

 

here is the faction if statement

 

if INVB_Global_Allow_Overlays_Factions.GetValue() == 1 && INVB_MCMHasLoaded_Faction.GetValue() == 1
			if INVB_Global_Allow_Overlays_Companion.GetValue() == 1 && (akActor.IsInFaction(CurrentCompanionFaction) || akActor.IsInFaction(PotentialCompanionFaction))
				INVB_Overlay_Manager_Custom.Overlay_Manager(akActor)
			elseif akActor.IsInFaction(BoSGenericNPCFaction) || akActor.IsInFaction(BrotherhoodofSteelFaction)
				INVB_Overlay_Manager_BoS.Overlay_Manager(akActor)
			elseif akActor.IsInFaction(ChildrenOfAtomFaction)
				INVB_Overlay_Manager_CoA.Overlay_Manager(akActor)
			elseif akActor.IsInFaction(CaptiveFaction)
				INVB_Overlay_Manager_DLC04_Slaves.Overlay_Manager(akActor)
			elseif akActor.IsInFaction(GunnerFaction)
				INVB_Overlay_Manager_Gunner.Overlay_Manager(akActor)
			elseif akActor.IsInFaction(InstituteFaction) || akActor.IsInFaction(InstituteRefugeeFaction)
				INVB_Overlay_Manager_Institute.Overlay_Manager(akActor)
			elseif akActor.IsInFaction(SynthFaction)
				INVB_Overlay_Manager_Institute_Synth.Overlay_Manager(akActor)
			elseif akActor.IsInFaction(MinutemenFaction)
				INVB_Overlay_Manager_MM.Overlay_Manager(akActor)
			elseif akActor.IsInFaction(RaiderFaction)
				INVB_Overlay_Manager_Raider.Overlay_Manager(akActor)
			elseif akActor.IsInFaction(RailroadFaction)
				INVB_Overlay_Manager_RR.Overlay_Manager(akActor)
			elseif akActor.IsInFaction(CrimeVault81)
				INVB_Overlay_Manager_Vault81.Overlay_Manager(akActor)
			elseif akActor.IsInFaction(CaravanFaction) || akActor.IsInFaction(CovenantFaction) || akActor.IsInFaction(WorkshopNPCFaction)
				INVB_Overlay_Manager_Settler.Overlay_Manager(akActor)
			else
				INVB_Overlay_Manager_Custom.Overlay_Manager(akActor)
			endIf
		else
			INVB_Overlay_Manager_Custom.Overlay_Manager(akActor)
		endIf

 

[Invictusblade]

about the word question,

 

There is some confusion when I use the word "quest" because that causes story imagery (missions, etc)

so people do get confused by 'quest' (because they may only understand one meaning of quest while I mean another meaning of quest) *maybe only one version exists in their language.

 

so in WDF and FPE, people keep asking about how to play the impregnation quests (btw these are effectively the same thing as ROF's usage of quests)

 

for example,

I am Australian, and the word "chips" can both mean "Hot Chips(or fries)" or "bag of Chips(or crisps)" (also add "wood chips" to that as well)

so I can understand that a word can have multiple meanings and multiple contexts.

 

so what is a more understandable word that means "scripted event" to you?

 

 

*I am confusing myself with this post

[LoveBob]

"scripted event" sounds good to me

 

What confused me is that there is a selection in the MCM but during installation it only says something about Armor. But now I know where what is where.

[Invictusblade]

about the armor vs quest MCM Option, I decided to simply move it to the uninstallation page.

because there is an use for it but it is simply too confusing for some to keep it in its current location.