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55 minutes ago, Sidewasy said:

Sounds like a good middle of the road approach.

 

If I may ask, how is the mod coming along?

At this moment kind of slowly. I've had either work, schoolwork, or some other event for the last few days so I'm pretty much at the same stage still. I may be able to work on it in a few hours, and then definitely a bit more tomorrow, after which I should have some kind of progress update.

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Well today's 'progress' was 2 steps backwards and then 2 steps forward. I have an increased understanding of what I'm trying to do with scenes but other than that I'm afraid there's not much to report.

 

I no longer wish to utilize my brain today, but I don't have anything due for school for a couple days so I should be able to carry whatever momentum I just got through to at least the first scene's completion.

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"Light Torture" is approximately half-way done, that is, as a self contained scene. Counting things like triggering it and then transitioning back into gameplay or another scene, there's more than that to do, but I need to construct some new scene management stuff in order to do that stuff, so I'll just make the scenes and weave them into the management systems whenever I make those.

 

I think once that scene is done I'll maybe start a closed beta if anyone would want to test things or view progress. It'd probably catch some bugs early on as well. It wouldn't be a complete or very usable mod - it'd really only be intended for people who are willing to install it only to experiment with functionality/view/review, then uninstall. Because of this, the 'closed' part of 'closed beta' is important - I'd hand it out through direct message just to be sure that the conditions you're receiving it under are completely understood. So I guess direct message me if you'd want to test out an early version, and once I've completed the scene and fixed a few MCM controls and dialogues I'll figure out how to package it and send any test copies out.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Looks like it is progressing. It might seems silly but I do wonder what's the benefit/reason for PC to refuse when approach or to wear clothes/remove collar if punishment is to be expected if she follow through with being a public whore? Like is there an alternative scenario or some kind of penalty in going along.

Furthermore how is the tone of becoming a public whore handle, is it something PC is happily accepting or something that is forced on her almost.

I like that there is so much effort put in the punishment, but I feel like we are kind of missing something here.

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I'm probably missing some things as far as what I've described so far so I'll try to clarify a bit.

 

20 minutes ago, afa said:

It might seems silly but I do wonder what's the benefit/reason for PC to refuse when approach or to wear clothes/remove collar if punishment is to be expected if she follow through with being a public whore?

Ideally if you're acting completely compliantly with your duties, you won't be punished unless something happens that's out of your control, like suddenly losing all of your money for whatever reason before you turn it in.

 

I mean on average there's absolutely no benefit to refusing sex or breaking the rules, since most of the time your punishment score goes up. But in approaches, for example, there's a small chance the NPC feels sorry for you, or doesn't care enough to tell the guards, so if you're in a rush it might still be tempting to refuse even despite the probability of punishment. Or perhaps you take advantage of knowing you won't be punished for just one refusal, so you can refuse, but it decreases your wiggle room going forward.

 

It's kind of the same idea behind Deviously Enslaved/DE Continued (which my NPC approach system is partially modeled after), where if people continuously approach you you're eventually going to get sick of it and start trying to skip the sex scene just to keep going on your way.

 

As for motivations to wear clothing, maybe Frostfall or Deviously Enslaved, which both penalize not having clothes, but, more evilly, to catch the player when they enter the city and forget that they're the city whore there until a guard comes up and reprimands them. 

 

Ultimately my philosophy in designing this is to punish and control the player's character, but not the player. For the player, obviously seeing their character naked all the time isn't an issue, but for the in-universe character that might be a serious issue to not be allowed to wear clothes in a crowd of people who've been told that you are now free for public use. DD and weapon/armor rules are where the line between punishing the character and punishing the player begins to blur because those can impede your gameplay, so I'm trying to keep those configurable.

 

 

23 minutes ago, afa said:

Like is there an alternative scenario or some kind of penalty in going along.

As of yet there's not, but perhaps it's a good idea to add some form of penalty for just flat-out accepting. I want to eventually either use Devious Mindbreak, or my own mini mindbreak/resistance breakdown system since it thematically makes sense with the whole 'hentai-esque' theme that this has going, so perhaps the longer you go without refusing, the faster you begin to be corrupted. Or, even easier, maybe if you just keep accepting and submitting, the city decides that you must like the job and keeps you for another week or something.

 

 

43 minutes ago, afa said:

Furthermore how is the tone of becoming a public whore handle, is it something PC is happily accepting or something that is forced on her almost.

Essentially the Thane appointed to managing the player just tells you that there's a new law because the city needs money, and you were best suited to be the city whore. There are a bunch of dialogue options for you to choose from to determine how you want to react yourself, and the people you're talking to respond according to your choices. Currently I don't have any 'happily accepting' options - as it stands I would say they range from 'neutrally accepting' to 'furiously rebelling' - but I do want to add an option to be completely on board with it just in case that's how people play their characters.

 

 

47 minutes ago, afa said:

I like that there is so much effort put in the punishment, but I feel like we are kind of missing something here.

If I didn't address anything here feel free to bring it up - or also to inquire about something I did address but not in enough detail.

 

 

For anyone wondering where the updates have been they should start up again soonish, over the last week and a half or so I've focused on completing the closed beta version. Currently it's being tested, which is providing some insight into what needs to be fixed before continuing. 

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9 hours ago, Visio Diaboli said:

Essentially the Thane appointed to managing the player just tells you that there's a new law because the city needs money, and you were best suited to be the city whore.

This has me wondering, will there be Thane characters added to the game by this mod who manage the player character? If so, what effects would this have on all the player Thane quests?

 

9 hours ago, Visio Diaboli said:

Currently I don't have any 'happily accepting' options - as it stands I would say they range from 'neutrally accepting' to 'furiously rebelling' - but I do want to add an option to be completely on board with it just in case that's how people play their characters.

That'll be a good idea. Options are always great.

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6 hours ago, Mr.Otaku said:

This has me wondering, will there be Thane characters added to the game by this mod who manage the player character? If so, what effects would this have on all the player Thane quests?

Yea it'll add one to each hold. There can be multiple thanes at a time, such has how the player can be a thane at the same time as Bryling in Solitude. I don't plan on tweaking anything in the thane quests, so player thanehood will remain mostly the same - I think it's actually helpful not to since having someone who should be the player's equal suddenly in charge of them further degrades the PC and what not. As soon as I figure out an easy way to track thanehood I'll add some dialogue for it for in-game acknowledgement.

 

1 hour ago, poblivion said:

I'm really looking forward to it, so far it's developing promising ?. I hope the beta will be available to everyone.

 

What forms of punishment will be available for the time being?

Right now there's a closed beta running that I'm only direct messaging the file for, since I don't want people thinking it's runnable at all yet, but if you'd want to test it in a very early state I can send it to you.

 

Right now all I have implemented is the player getting whipped on an X-cross, and then being made to 'practice' sex for a while, for the Light Torture scene - I may add more to its duration after getting a few more scenes started.

 

At time of release I should have everything aforementioned, as I don't believe it's changed yet:

-Service Extension (add on another week to player's job)

-Public Rape (brought in front of crowd for demonstration)

-Light Torture (whipping, sex/rape depending on cooperation, probably some other punishment soon)

-Heavy Torture (not sure yet - maybe Pama's garotte or some other asphyxiation thing, along with a few more punishments)

-Execution (or fake execution to scare the player)

 

Everything except Service Extension will likely apply an increasingly strong debuff, probably something like damage taken or attack damage, or a general stat debuff. Or it might debuff an inbuilt stat affecting your ability to refuse citizens, eventually making you act like your overjoyed to be the city whore out of fear of punishment. I'm not sure exactly what yet, I like minimizing gameplay interference but if the player keeps on getting punished then it might be in order.

 

Assuming those are working well, I'll probably try to add variants and new scenes in a far future update.

 

 

1 hour ago, Ogadosh said:

Sounds great. Any plans to integrate this with being a cow?

I don't have any so far - I haven't personally played that one so it'll likely be after launch if I do. If you have ideas for how they should interact I'm open to possibly trying to implement them at a later point.

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13 minutes ago, Visio Diaboli said:

I don't have any so far - I haven't personally played that one so it'll likely be after launch if I do. If you have ideas for how they should interact I'm open to possibly trying to implement them at a later point.

This does not rely on Being a Cow but on Milk Mod Economy, but you could in the future add a task to the player character to provide milk for the city, as well as allow npc's to demand to milk the player character. Just a suggestion, you should focus on what you care about most.

 

There is also a branding mod used by Slaverun. Might be something you could also use.

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28 minutes ago, Ogadosh said:

This does not rely on Being a Cow but on Milk Mod Economy, but you could in the future add a task to the player character to provide milk for the city, as well as allow npc's to demand to milk the player character. Just a suggestion, you should focus on what you care about most.

 

There is also a branding mod used by Slaverun. Might be something you could also use.

I have used MME though, and that's a decent idea. Likely still an implementation for later on but definitely plausible.

 

I vaguely remember something about the branding mod - Branding Device of Doom I think? I can't really tell what it does from its page so I'll look later probably.

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4 hours ago, Visio Diaboli said:

As soon as I figure out an easy way to track thanehood I'll add some dialogue for it for in-game acknowledgement.

That's awesome. In game dialogues that acknowledges the player character degradation will make it pretty complete on that aspect.

 

Speaking of which, are there any plans for compatibility with Prison Overhaul Patched?

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9 minutes ago, Mr.Otaku said:

Speaking of which, are there any plans for compatibility with Prison Overhaul Patched?

Not as of now, but that would be a really nice feature to have I think. The only problem is that I haven't personally played through its content too much, so I wouldn't exactly know what the best ways to interact with it are. I'll add it to the nearish-future integrations part of the first post, and then eventually look at what it does a bit closer.

 

Do you have any specific ideas for it? If so that'll give me a bit of a starting point in that regard.

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Really looking forward to the development of this mod. Everything you have planned or mentioned sounds great. A mod like this has been on my Wishlist for quite some time.

 

Will there be a way for the pc to be coerced into becoming the town whore, other than being a known sub/victim through slsf or other mods? For those that roleplay a stronger character who is not easily preyed upon.

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15 minutes ago, drunken toad said:

Will there be a way for the pc to be coerced into becoming the town whore, other than being a known sub/victim through slsf or other mods? For those that roleplay a stronger character who is not easily preyed upon.

Eventually Simple Slavery+ should be able to lead into it, for a few more avenues.

 

I also want to implement a mini-quest of some sort to start, but I'm not sure exactly what it'd be - it would likely depend on the player being tricked in some capacity, probably in a manner reminiscent of Slaverun's intro.

 

I suppose one possibility would be allowing the player to ask for a way to make money and then being offered the city whore job, though I don't know if that's the type of thing you're getting at.

 

Let me know if you have any other ideas, I could still do with a few for introductions.

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4 hours ago, Visio Diaboli said:

Eventually Simple Slavery+ should be able to lead into it, for a few more avenues.

 

I also want to implement a mini-quest of some sort to start, but I'm not sure exactly what it'd be - it would likely depend on the player being tricked in some capacity, probably in a manner reminiscent of Slaverun's intro.

 

I suppose one possibility would be allowing the player to ask for a way to make money and then being offered the city whore job, though I don't know if that's the type of thing you're getting at.

 

Let me know if you have any other ideas, I could still do with a few for introductions.

The mini quest sounds interesting. Maybe the pc could be introduced to the other thane and start a bitter rivalry. One day he could pull you aside and tell you he pitched an idea of his to the jarl about giving the townsfolk a public whore to ease tensions, and that he volunteered you for the position. And that he told the Jarl he knew you'd want to help (making you look bad either way). The pc goes to the jarl to clear things up, but it turns out he's very keen on the idea and the pc will have to try to convince him otherwise which will be hard. Should the pc fail to convince him he sends you back to the rival thane who is waiting with a big grin on his face, eager to welcome the pc into their new role.

 

I think that a mandatory tax could be a good lead in as well. If you spend x amount of time adventuring in a hold you are required to pay taxes there. Something like 15 septims per hour you spend in that hold, could be configurable via mcm. This is in order to simulate the player being taxed on their earnings from adventuring, or any other job like chopping wood etc. The player should have to report to whoever collects the tax weekly, this could also be configurable. If you don't report guards will escort you to the person who collects your taxes. Also, should you fail to meet the quota, restrictions will start being enforced on the pc until they just decide you'll pay your taxes in another way. 

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I have more to say about the first so I'm gonna address these in the opposite order:

18 minutes ago, drunken toad said:

I think that a mandatory tax could be a good lead in as well. If you spend x amount of time adventuring in a hold you are required to pay taxes there. Something like 15 septims per hour you spend in that hold, could be configurable via mcm. This is in order to simulate the player being taxed on their earnings from adventuring, or any other job like chopping wood etc. The player should have to report to whoever collects the tax weekly, this could also be configurable. If you don't report guards will escort you to the person who collects your taxes. Also, should you fail to meet the quota, restrictions will start being enforced on the pc until they just decide you'll pay your taxes in another way.

It's feasible, but there's also a tax in Sexlab Adventures, and kind of in SLS in the form of toll gates, so I'm not certain that that wouldn't be a bit too much in combination with whatever other taxes the player might be paying. If there's a way to hook Public Whore into Adventures or SLS toll evasion I could see doing that.

 

22 minutes ago, drunken toad said:

The mini quest sounds interesting. Maybe the pc could be introduced to the other thane and start a bitter rivalry. One day he could pull you aside and tell you he pitched an idea of his to the jarl about giving the townsfolk a public whore to ease tensions, and that he volunteered you for the position. And that he told the Jarl he knew you'd want to help (making you look bad either way). The pc goes to the jarl to clear things up, but it turns out he's very keen on the idea and the pc will have to try to convince him otherwise which will be hard. Should the pc fail to convince him he sends you back to the rival thane who is waiting with a big grin on his face, eager to welcome the pc into their new role.

I like this idea, but I'll need to be careful with trigger conditions. It seems that, naturally, the thane would be a lot more interested in ruining the PC's status if the PC were also a thane, which they may or may not be - I have yet to figure out the best way to track that.

 

Although one idea I just got is that we just disregard PC thanehood entirely for that specific introduction method, and add a "heroic" fame associated with the player character. For every bandit camp cleared or dragon slain in the hold, the PC becomes a bit more respected, and the thane gets a bit more jealous of all this fame that isn't going to them instead. At 75% of the threshold he pulls the PC aside and condescendingly suggests the player take it easier, and at the threshold he does what you said, and the Jarl realizes that having a local hero as, more or less, a city sex slave, would be a brilliant way to raise gold and citizen approval of him.

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3 hours ago, Visio Diaboli said:

I have more to say about the first so I'm gonna address these in the opposite order:

It's feasible, but there's also a tax in Sexlab Adventures, and kind of in SLS in the form of toll gates, so I'm not certain that that wouldn't be a bit too much in combination with whatever other taxes the player might be paying. If there's a way to hook Public Whore into Adventures or SLS toll evasion I could see doing that.

 

I like this idea, but I'll need to be careful with trigger conditions. It seems that, naturally, the thane would be a lot more interested in ruining the PC's status if the PC were also a thane, which they may or may not be - I have yet to figure out the best way to track that.

 

Although one idea I just got is that we just disregard PC thanehood entirely for that specific introduction method, and add a "heroic" fame associated with the player character. For every bandit camp cleared or dragon slain in the hold, the PC becomes a bit more respected, and the thane gets a bit more jealous of all this fame that isn't going to them instead. At 75% of the threshold he pulls the PC aside and condescendingly suggests the player take it easier, and at the threshold he does what you said, and the Jarl realizes that having a local hero as, more or less, a city sex slave, would be a brilliant way to raise gold and citizen approval of him.

When would the mod trigger? 

 

I see what you're saying about the taxes, though I'm pretty sure you can disable both mods tax functions. I just can't think of any better way to trap a stronger pc into that role. Maybe a proof of income check? Show at least x amount of septims every week or he finds a job for you. Though I would personally prefer the tax method. The route could be optional in mcm if the player wants the option to have mandatory tax check lead in.

 

Yeah that introduction idea makes more sense. Maybe somewhere down the line you could fit in the rival thane scenario.

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19 minutes ago, drunken toad said:

When would the mod trigger? 

Mainly I just meant I don't want the player to instantly become the city whore just by being the thane or dragonborn or whatever - the idea is that you can completely avoid this mod if you're pretty careful, so it should require a consistent pattern of behavior over a period of time to start up in any given hold.

 

25 minutes ago, drunken toad said:

I see what you're saying about the taxes, though I'm pretty sure you can disable both mods tax functions. I just can't think of any better way to trap a stronger pc into that role. Maybe a proof of income check? Show at least x amount of septims every week or he finds a job for you. Though I would personally prefer the tax method. The route could be optional in mcm if the player wants the option to have mandatory tax check lead in.

I've tried to type like 3 responses to this but I still don't think I have a satisfactory solution to it. Tax per time spent in the city would be a bit more complex than it's worth as I see it now, but some kind of financial route would probably fit.

 

I have fragments of ideas but no idea how to assemble them into a full mechanic: maybe if the guards occasionally approach the player when they look wealthy (carrying a ridiculous amount of cash/equipment is valuable) and ask for a couple thousand gold for the city, not paying it could result in starting this mod. Or perhaps it is a weekly tax, not all the time but at random, where the Jarl decides "these people would make good city whores, and as long as none of them take the job, they're going to have to make it up with weekly taxes." There's quite a bit of time to decide, any way I do it, I suppose.

 

1 hour ago, drunken toad said:

Yeah that introduction idea makes more sense. Maybe somewhere down the line you could fit in the rival thane scenario.

Once I can track thanehood it'd be easier, that's just a lot of tedious scripting that's relatively low-priority right now. That would make a nice dynamic, such as the thane 'forgetting' that you turned in money due to not liking you, or outright not releasing you from duty. It'll likely depend how the player acts towards the thane, since in general they're intended to be condescending but otherwise reasonably fair.

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9 hours ago, Visio Diaboli said:

Do you have any specific ideas for it? If so that'll give me a bit of a starting point in that regard.

I was thinking more in the lines of arrests and jailtime leading to triggering and having an effect on this mod either in NPC acknowledgements or event stats.

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19 hours ago, Visio Diaboli said:

I have fragments of ideas but no idea how to assemble them into a full mechanic: maybe if the guards occasionally approach the player when they look wealthy (carrying a ridiculous amount of cash/equipment is valuable) and ask for a couple thousand gold for the city, not paying it could result in starting this mod. Or perhaps it is a weekly tax, not all the time but at random, where the Jarl decides "these people would make good city whores, and as long as none of them take the job, they're going to have to make it up with weekly taxes." There's quite a bit of time to decide, any way I do it, I suppose.

Personally, I like your second idea of a weekly tax route better. 

 

I also really like the idea of a weekly credit check. The Jarls way of ensuring all his citizens are doing their part for the hold, i.e. having some source of income. Then the pc would have to maintain a certain amount of gold or risk being assigned to public use for her incompetence. This way you could make it a mandatory check every week without having to worry about the player being overwhelmed with expenses if used in conjunction with other mods that add taxes like SLS and SL adventures like you mentioned before.

 

That's my take, If you even want to incorporate a financial aspect into your mod at all that is.

 

Regardless, thank you for taking the time to look over my posts. Good luck with your project. 

 

 

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18 hours ago, Visio Diaboli said:

Once I can track thanehood it'd be easier, that's just a lot of tedious scripting that's relatively low-priority right now. That would make a nice dynamic, such as the thane 'forgetting' that you turned in money due to not liking you, or outright not releasing you from duty. It'll likely depend how the player acts towards the thane, since in general they're intended to be condescending but otherwise reasonably fair.

You could always track if the Thanehood quest for a particular hold is complete, since thanehood is a reward for said quests.

 

As for questions: will it be possible to disable punishments in the MCM? Torture and snuff are an antifetish for me.

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43 minutes ago, M3mentoMori said:

You could always track if the Thanehood quest for a particular hold is complete, since thanehood is a reward for said quests.

I'll take a look at those. My concern is that when the Jarl changes during Civil War it might screw with that, but I can't say for certain that it's not the same quest that just gets reset.

 

43 minutes ago, M3mentoMori said:

will it be possible to disable punishments in the MCM? Torture and snuff are an antifetish for me.

Execution will be toggle-able for sure due to the nature of it - on that note it should be mechanically identical to add toggles for the rest, so I think there'll be a toggle option for each punishment added and then whichever are toggled off just get skipped on threshold checks. (Edit: and consequently if you disable all there will be none - it's conceivable to add an option to turn them off entirely as well)

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On 10/20/2020 at 6:11 AM, Visio Diaboli said:

Mainly I just meant I don't want the player to instantly become the city whore just by being the thane or dragonborn or whatever - the idea is that you can completely avoid this mod if you're pretty careful, so it should require a consistent pattern of behavior over a period of time to start up in any given hold.

 

Will it also be possible to simply volunteer your PC? 

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