NMM for creation kit, MO2 for playing

[Forgetandeatcake]

Is it a good idea to do this? I'm doing a fresh install, and will use the NMM to create and edit mods with the creation kit, and for actually testing and playing I'll use mod organiser 2.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Seijin8]

9 minutes ago, Forgetandeatcake said:

Is it a good idea to do this? I'm doing a fresh install, and will use the NMM to create and edit mods with the creation kit, and for actually testing and playing I'll use mod organiser 2.

Why?

 

Why make your process more complex than it needs to be?  What are you gaining by doing it this way?

 

 

[Forgetandeatcake]

I like MO2, but it seems impossible to use for creation kit.

[Yinkle]

If you run creation kit from outside MO2 it won't see any of the mods you installed in MO2. Using MO2 and NMM in tandem would be akin to eating a steak with chocolate sauce.  

[Seijin8]

10 minutes ago, Forgetandeatcake said:

I like MO2, but it seems impossible to use for creation kit.

Googling the issue finds half a dozen explanations on page one alone, several with videos.

 

I've been doing this "impossible" thing for years.

[RedMonika]

19 hours ago, Forgetandeatcake said:

I like MO2, but it seems impossible to use for creation kit.

 

I'm a bit lost as to why you would do this.

 

The file structure between MO2 and NMM are completely different. MO2 creates a virtual structure leaving your game folders alone. NMM dumps everything into your data folder while MO dumps everything in a separate folder. Because MO2 creates a virtual environment any esp that's manually placed or installed by another mod manager will not be seen by MO2. Anything installed by MO2 won't be seen by NMM.

 

You install all of your 3rd party tools... Nifscope, FNIS, CK, Bodyslide, etc. by telling MO2 where the executable is. When you use them they run within the virtual environment. If you have CK installed via Steam MO2 will automatically find it. In fact, IIRC, MO2 will automatically detect most 3rd party tools.

 

Spoiler

 

In order to use CK via NMM you would need to install mods within NMM and run your game from NMM. There's no other way to this. 

 

 

 

 

[RedMonika]

2 hours ago, Yinkle said:

If you run creation kit from outside MO2 it won't see any of the mods you installed in MO2. Using MO2 and NMM in tandem would be akin to eating a steak with chocolate sauce.  

https://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/sandra-lee/rib-eye-steaks-with-savory-chocolate-sauce-recipe-1923610

[RedMonika]

I don't know if this would work. You could try having MO2 point to the data folder as the install folder. It defeats the purpose of using it though. Again, I don't know if this would work.

[Grey Cloud]

8 hours ago, RedMonika said:

NMM dumps everything into your data folder.

MO evangelists. NMM doesn't dump everything into the Data folder - it installs them there. And I'm still waiting for one of you evangelists to tell me why this is a bad thing.

[Forgetandeatcake]

11 hours ago, Seijin8 said:

Googling the issue finds half a dozen explanations on page one alone, several with videos.

 

I've been doing this "impossible" thing for years.

I'm talking about doing scripting in creation kit. Loads of forums seem to say that you can't script in creation kit while running it through MO2. And to be clear, I was able to get creation kit running, and make simple mods (creating new items for example) but I'm looking to script.

 

8 hours ago, RedMonika said:

 

I'm a bit lost as to why you would do this.

 

The file structure between MO2 and NMM are completely different. MO2 creates a virtual structure leaving your game folders alone. NMM dumps everything into your data folder. Because MO2 creates a virtual environment any esp that's manually placed or installed by another mod manager will not be seen by MO2. Anything installed by MO2 won't be seen by NMM.

 

You install all of your 3rd party tools... Nifscope, FNIS, CK, Bodyslide, etc. by telling MO2 where the executable is. When you use them they run within the virtual environment. If you have CK installed via Steam MO2 will automatically find it. In fact, IIRC, MO2 will automatically detect most 3rd party tools.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

In order to use CK via NMM you would need to install mods within NMM and run your game from NMM. There's no other way to this. 

 

 

 

 

I know that I would basically have to install twice. However the NMM install would have significally less plugins since I'll only be doing the bare minimum to get it running

[donttouchmethere]

4 hours ago, Grey Cloud said:

MO evangelists. NMM doesn't dump everything into the Data folder - it installs them there. And I'm still waiting for one of you evangelists to tell me why this is a bad thing.

Spoiler

 

[worik]

5 hours ago, Forgetandeatcake said:

'm talking about doing scripting in creation kit.

? I can't tell for MO2 since I'm still using MO1, but I don't notice an issues there with scripting.

That makes me wonder what they did differently (and assumingly worse) ? 

I'm curious because I thought it's time to upgrade sometime this year

 

Reminds me of the same story that got told about MO1 . ? From https://wiki.step-project.com/Guide:Mod_Organizer:

Spoiler

Compiling CK Scripts

Since the Papyrus Script Compiler for the Creation Kit is a 64-bit executable which MO cannot handle, you cannot natively compile scripts from the Creation Kit. Applying the Papyrus Compiler Patch for x64 Systems removes that limitation.

 

 

Edit:

Just had a look at their documentation, and it doesn't sound like scripting wouldn't work. Quite the opposite, although that is specificially for SSE:

https://github.com/ModOrganizer2/modorganizer/wiki/Skyrim-Creation-Kit-SE-and-MO2

[Grey Cloud]

2 minutes ago, worik said:

I'm curious because I thought it's time to upgrade sometime this year

NMM? ?

[worik]

1 minute ago, Grey Cloud said:

NMM? ?

NMM = NeverMind anyMore ... or something like that  .. it could have been in the days of 0.63.12 when I got all my courage together. ... ? 2014? 2015?

[RedMonika]

6 hours ago, Grey Cloud said:

MO evangelists. NMM doesn't dump everything into the Data folder - it installs them there. And I'm still waiting for one of you evangelists to tell me why this is a bad thing.

Wow... grumpy much? I'm not saying it's good or bad. Tell me how NMM installs mods then if you're such a proponent of it. He brought up both. I was trying to be helpful. He wasn't that clear of what he wanted to do. All I read is that he wanted to edit mods.

 

So, installing in data isn't dumping everything there? If it installs in the Data folder it's putting, placing, dumping everything there... Where else does it install? "NMM doesn't dump 'everything' into the data folder." 

 

I can play that game too.

[Grey Cloud]

35 minutes ago, RedMonika said:

So, installing in data isn't dumping everything there? If it installs in the Data folder it's putting, placing, dumping everything there... Where else does it install? "NMM doesn't dump 'everything' into the data folder." 

There is a world of difference between 'dumping' and 'installing'. Your use of the pejorative 'dumping' is typical of MO users. Funny how Skyrim installs the Data folder and 'dumps' stuff in there, isn't it.

35 minutes ago, RedMonika said:

Where else does it install?

I never suggested NMM installed anywhere else. I did say I was still waiting for one of you MO evangelists to say why installing in the Data folder was a bad thing.

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, worik said:

Reminds me of the same story that got told about MO1

Ah, I was correct. I had a faint recollection of reading something about compiling scripts and MO or MO2. Scripts and MO are not things I use so it wasn't important to me.

[Grey Cloud]

35 minutes ago, RedMonika said:

Tell me how NMM installs mods then if you're such a proponent of it.

Why? Proponent of what? NMM? I'm not trying to big up NMM, I'm challenging your use of the word 'dumps'.

 

FYI, I'm currently using Vortex by the very same St. Tannin who created MO and after about 3 months I can safely say it is shit. It does a ton of things I don't need or want, nothing I do need or want, and quite often doesn't do things it says are done. In short, typical shit product from some nanny-minded fuckwit who thinks he knows best for everyone. So it looks like I will be going back to NMM.

[RedMonika]

3 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

There is a world of difference between 'dumping' and 'installing'. Your use of the pejorative 'dumping' is typical of MO users. Funny how Skyrim installs the Data folder and 'dumps' stuff in there, isn't it.

I never suggested NMM installed anywhere else. I did say I was still waiting for one of you MO evangelists to say why installing in the Data folder was a bad thing.

 

Then you're missing my sarcasm. I can easily say that MO2 dumps everything in a separate folder. I don't really care how both managers manage mods. I was an avid user of NMM and thought that MO was too involved but then found it to be more manageable and efficient. It's a matter if preference. I don't care if someone prefers NMM over MO - what ever works.

 

 I was more confused as to how his idea could work. I even provided a suggestion that might be possible. By the OP it sounded like he needed some help in understanding MO. I sincerely was trying to help. 

[Grey Cloud]

7 minutes ago, RedMonika said:

Then you're missing my sarcasm. I can easily say that MO2 dumps everything in a separate folder.

It wasn't sarcasm and you didn't use the word in connection with MO, only NMM.

 

Assuming there is no issue with compiling scripts and MO then would not the obvious solution be to use one profile for CK stuff and another for gaming?

[RedMonika]

10 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

Why? Proponent of what? NMM? I'm not trying to big up NMM, I'm challenging your use of the word 'dumps'.

 

FYI, I'm currently using Vortex by the very same St. Tannin who created MO and after about 3 months I can safely say it is shit. It does a ton of things I don't need or want, nothing I do need or want, and quite often doesn't do things it says are done. In short, typical shit product from some nanny-minded fuckwit who thinks he knows best for everyone. So it looks like I will be going back to NMM.

OMG... I tried to use vortex and it is crap. I fully agree with you on that. It broke everything. Hey, if NMM works for you cool beans. I personally find MO works better for me. I don't think one is better than another they just do things differently - a matter of preference.

[RedMonika]

12 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

It wasn't sarcasm and you didn't use the word in connection with MO, only NMM.

 

Assuming there is no issue with compiling scripts and MO then would not the obvious solution be to use one profile for CK stuff and another for gaming?

Well, then I fixed it - "while MO dumps everything in a separate folder."

 

I didn't mean any offense or insult.

 

I could be horribly wrong but I can't think of a way for the OP to do what he would like to do.

[Forgetandeatcake]

19 minutes ago, RedMonika said:

Well, then I fixed it - "while MO dumps everything in a separate folder."

 

I didn't mean any offense or insult.

 

I could be horribly wrong but I can't think of a way for the OP to do what he would like to do.

That's fine, because I was the one horrbily wrong.

 

I thought I had been keeping my mods up to date, MO2 install ect, but I wasn't. After deleting everything for a clean install, I think I did actually manage to get creation kit running through MO2.

 

Thank you for the suggestions

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Forgetandeatcake said:

I'm talking about doing scripting in creation kit. Loads of forums seem to say that you can't script in creation kit while running it through MO2. 

Fake news.

 

Plus, if you just want to script and compile scripts, don't bother with buggy, slow and ugly CK. I haven't launched CK since early 2019.

Install an user-defined Papyrus XML markup for Notepad++ or Sublime (optional) and follow these instructions on how to easily compile scripts using MO2. 

Or you can just run PapyrusCompiler.exe directly from MO2 with the correct arguments, if you don't care to read PapyrusCompiler.exe stdout/stderr.

 

PapyrusCompiler.exe is a 64-bits application and MO1 only runs 32-bits applications; you will need to patch it out to make it run in 32-bits mode. If you are running MO2, you obviously don't need to do this since MO2 can run 64-bits applications just fine.

[Just Don't]

8 hours ago, Grey Cloud said:

MO evangelists.

Spoiler

Nobody expects...

 

Chill guys, everyone knows the superior mod manager is the vanilla Launcher.

 

On a serious note, Hawk is right, there were a couple of issues in past versions of MO that made impossible/difficult? to use CK to compile scripts through MO, nowdays it should be totally doable.

[Guest]

45 minutes ago, dontknowdontcaredontask said:

there were a couple of issues in past versions of MO that made impossible/difficult?

Nope. All you needed to do was patch PapyrusCompiler.exe.

This patcher for example, has been on Nexus since 2015.

Or you can simply open your Python's interactive interpreter and write this:

with open("PapyrusCompiler.exe", "rb+") as f:
    f.seek(0x218)
    f.write("\x03")

Either way, I don't see why you would need this, considering that you can just copy your profile from MO1 to MO2 and ditch MO1 entirely.

You also will have lots of problems with MO1 when running Sheson's xLODGen for terrain lods because of the memory limitations with the 32-bits version.