Fusion Girl or CBBE?

[splashzone]

9 hours ago, NNS10 said:

 

I checked the Korean messageboard you link to and it seems to cover a good number of the more tactical armors.

 

Regarding FG itself, is the uniboob reference just the breasts or is it equivalent of the CBBE unibody (which is uni-boob + uni-butt). And do most conversions use that as the standard reference? If so, that'd be a plus for FG.

 

 

Edit: On checking some of the vanilla outfit FG conversions (that come with the mod), they seem to be significantly worse than the CBBE base conversions. The FG conversions seem to be much lower poly and blocky. Vault suit 111 is one example.

 

As far as I know, FG does come with a "Uniboob" reference in the main package but as I have yet to implement that into my playthrough I can't answer about the conversions that use it. There might be a "uni-butt" of some kind available or in the works but I didn't see one included in the FG install package. What I can say is that FG development is far from stagnant and whatever features are not available yet but are highly requested will most likely get some love in the future if not already. As an example, FG users were asking for dismemberment support so GrafPanzer created a slightly lower poly FG reference for us. That all said, there are much more knowledgeable people with a lot more bts info that can probably answer some of the more technical questions and are willing to do so. Feel free to join the FG discord if you haven't already and I'm sure you'll get better answers

 

As for the Vanilla outfit conversions, I really couldn't tell you how much worse or better they are as my first order of business is to replace vanilla outfits and add a few extras so that very little (if any) vanilla outfits still exist in game (that goes for a CBBE loadout as well). My current FG loadout uses all of the FG Classy Chassis Replacers as well as CBBE versions of Eli's Armor Compendium, and Militarized Minutemen and since I only use those outfits for NPC's it really doesn't mess with "muh immersion" too much. And since the CBBE outfits in my loadout aren't built in bodyslide or subject to bodygen, I actually find that it adds a little balance to the body types around the commonwealth as not everyone looks like a porn star. Hope this helps answer some questions or concerns!  

[Celedhring]

Fusion Girl all the way.  I don't use much in way of armor aside from the FG Courser armor suit conversion and a couple others.   It just looks so much more natural than CBBE, honestly.  

[South8028]

fg is an unalterable pussy because either aaf and fg or a defective aaf. In fg, I don't like body morphs / sliders. The shoulder morphs are poorly implemented, you have to choose between the huge shoulders of the swimmer and the holes in the net. 7b slider ties ass and tits together, so silicone melons are given by default instead of boobs and it is hard work to return them to their human form. Adjusting the sliders to look like a woman's body rather than an anime representation of a teenager about a woman's body is harder than cbbe. But there is no alternative to fg, cbbe is hopelessly lagging behind and occupies a dummy niche among modmakers who churn out clothes.

[KoolHndLuke]

Isn't the main difference between the two the rigging of the skelly? Extra/edited bones and a body designed around it are obviously better. Mesh and textures can be edited however you like. I would switch to FG, but then I'd have to go back and basically adapt my mod list. Plus I don't especially need the extra jiggles and wiggles that FG supports.

 

For new modders just starting to mod their game, there is no good reason I've seen not to use Fusion Girl over CBBE except that it might be a little more difficult to set up.

[TheBottomhoodofSteel]

Wow guys CBBE is such a realistic Woman's body.

 

[South8028]

13 hours ago, KoolHndLuke said:

Isn't the main difference between the two the rigging of the skelly? Extra/edited bones and a body designed around it are obviously better. Mesh and textures can be edited however you like. I would switch to FG, but then I'd have to go back and basically adapt my mod list. Plus I don't especially need the extra jiggles and wiggles that FG supports.

 

For new modders just starting to mod their game, there is no good reason I've seen not to use Fusion Girl over CBBE except that it might be a little more difficult to set up.

Skeletons are their difference, but they have different morphs, and fg is less flexible. In cbbe, the sliders were formed as needed, and in fg they were like a product of experiments. In fg, I simply cannot make narrow female shoulders so as not to "blow up" the triceps mesh. zex - like the vanilla skeleton, it is made primarily in the proportions of the male body, but only in fg it became even more difficult to correct these imbalances with morphs. If you attach cbbe's torso to fg butt,it will be ok . ))

[TheBottomhoodofSteel]

But you wind up with animation issues not conforming to the male skeleton a bit, Even Vanilla Female has broken legs and arms because Beth did an aesthetic approach to it. Breaking the skeleton or Animations/The humanrace data to "fix" it isn't a proper solution. You want good anims? Fix the mesh. 

The mesh work was done to improve in anims. It does its job just fine. I'm sorry it doesn't conform to your specific aesthetic of a woman (Not that FG even has that wide of a shoulder set) but We worked for gameplay and animations, not for lookin like a pretty barbie doll in only 2 different poses (Cooter sticker included). 

[South8028]

6 hours ago, TheBottomhoodofSteel said:

But you wind up with animation issues not conforming to the male skeleton a bit, Even Vanilla Female has broken legs and arms because Beth did an aesthetic approach to it. Breaking the skeleton or Animations/The humanrace data to "fix" it isn't a proper solution. You want good anims? Fix the mesh. 

The mesh work was done to improve in anims. It does its job just fine. I'm sorry it doesn't conform to your specific aesthetic of a woman (Not that FG even has that wide of a shoulder set) but We worked for gameplay and animations, not for lookin like a pretty barbie doll in only 2 different poses (Cooter sticker included). 

I have no complaints about the fg developers. All of them absolutely selflessly did an excellent job. Glory to them. The animations look great compared to what came before. I just need to try to find a solution on my own with these huge shoulders. I don't know how yet. Maybe I'll physically try to edit the mesh.

 

[South8028]

in general, I copied the bones from fg to cbbe. It turned out a hybrid of cbbe with cbbe sliders, but with support for the zex skeleton and all the fg physics. Vaginal and anal morphs from fg now work in cbbe, added sliders. In animations, in the nude, everything seems to be fine, but now we need to figure out what's with the clothes from cbbe. Probably have to copy the weight.

physics has yet to be dealt with. I went overboard with weight. ) Boobs pulls down. But in general the concept of cbbe on zex works the same as fg on zex. I will finish it, but I will not post it without the permission of the authors of fg.

 

[South8028]

Generally. I have no complaints about the creators of fg, but I have complaints about the skeleton creator zaz. Initially it was wrong to try to fit the body to the skeleton. After much experimentation, the conclusion is clear. The female body needs a separate skeleton and nothing else. Assigning a skeleton in the game is not difficult, but everyone continues to do nonsense. This skeleton really doesn't work for fg, much less cbbe. The Fg mesh was, of course, moved as far as possible under the bones. I did the same with cbbe, but in the form of a slider that changes the grid under zaz. But fg, like any female body, is very far from ideal without a female skeleton.

[TheBottomhoodofSteel]

On 3/26/2021 at 1:32 PM, South8028 said:

in general, I copied the bones from fg to cbbe. It turned out a hybrid of cbbe with cbbe sliders, but with support for the zex skeleton and all the fg physics. Vaginal and anal morphs from fg now work in cbbe, added sliders. In animations, in the nude, everything seems to be fine, but now we need to figure out what's with the clothes from cbbe. Probably have to copy the weight.

physics has yet to be dealt with. I went overboard with weight. ) Boobs pulls down. But in general the concept of cbbe on zex works the same as fg on zex. I will finish it, but I will not post it without the permission of the authors of fg.

 

 

Hi, yes.. Main ZeX Dev here...  First of all, you'll need permission from the authors of CBBE for the body shit, who:

1. Told us nobody would want the features we initially offered (Yes despite you know puttin a whole ass 3D coochie in Skyrim SE, with full on collisions and etc)
    
2. Restricted permissions so heavily to the point we decided it was better off to make our own body (to where we were told "no one on LL has any talent to make a body")

Unless it's Ousnius and the CBBE dev team coming to us/our server (with an apology in hand) and asking us direct for the features and work we did (and contributing to the work we're doing), the answer will always be 

 

They have sat there believing they're superior to us, while I and my team have worked tirelessly alongside other developers and mod authors (Atomic Beauty & Janebod both got ZeX features (even the 3BBB system. Which both FG and AB had (Unofficially) for almost a year now) with no issue cause people actually worked and contributed for all our benefit) and pushed out great features. As far as I'm concerned, they don't need us or anything we got if they're so high up, so unless they come to us admitting they're no better than us and actually contribute like everyone else has to get ZeX features... I don't want it and everyone can keep it. 

 

Like I said, The shoulder issue is not something in anyone's control. There's a reason FG doesn't break as badly in animations, I'm sorry it violates your aesthetic choices and desires, but either suck it up or deal with animation issues. There isn't much to be done. Fallout 4 cannot handle gendered skeletons and breaks heavily (crashes and etc) when you try to do that (I assume you'd need to completely rewrite and remake all anims and havok data for there to even be a concept of that happening) so this is the best and only solution available that doesn't break your game or cause numerous issues. There's a slider to shrink the shoulders inward, but it's "Use at your own peril"

 

 

[South8028]

3 hours ago, TheBottomhoodofSteel said:

 

Hi, yes.. Main ZeX Dev here...  First of all, you'll need permission from the authors of CBBE for the body shit, who:

1. Told us nobody would want the features we initially offered (Yes despite you know puttin a whole ass 3D coochie in Skyrim SE, with full on collisions and etc)
    
2. Restricted permissions so heavily to the point we decided it was better off to make our own body (to where we were told "no one on LL has any talent to make a body")

Unless it's Ousnius and the CBBE dev team coming to us/our server (with an apology in hand) and asking us direct for the features and work we did (and contributing to the work we're doing), the answer will always be 

 

They have sat there believing they're superior to us, while I and my team have worked tirelessly alongside other developers and mod authors (Atomic Beauty & Janebod both got ZeX features (even the 3BBB system. Which both FG and AB had (Unofficially) for almost a year now) with no issue cause people actually worked and contributed for all our benefit) and pushed out great features. As far as I'm concerned, they don't need us or anything we got if they're so high up, so unless they come to us admitting they're no better than us and actually contribute like everyone else has to get ZeX features... I don't want it and everyone can keep it. 

 

Like I said, The shoulder issue is not something in anyone's control. There's a reason FG doesn't break as badly in animations, I'm sorry it violates your aesthetic choices and desires, but either suck it up or deal with animation issues. There isn't much to be done. Fallout 4 cannot handle gendered skeletons and breaks heavily (crashes and etc) when you try to do that (I assume you'd need to completely rewrite and remake all anims and havok data for there to even be a concept of that happening) so this is the best and only solution available that doesn't break your game or cause numerous issues. There's a slider to shrink the shoulders inward, but it's "Use at your own peril"

 

 

Thanks for the answer. What's the problem with any number of skeletons in the game? Scatter the necessary girls in races with their skeletons "in the closet". ) There are at least two mods that do this, but they are not required, you can work on your own. Potential animation problems ... Yes, you are definitely right. But maybe you can make a skeleton that includes adjustments, on the verge of compromising with existing animations? I will be happy to integrate it into the game, at least I will find a way to use it separately for the player's body, or some npc.

As for cbbe. I am not going to distribute anything related to fg without your consent. Also, I'm not particularly interested in cbbe. I want to ensure that at least one real female body appears in fo4, with very flexible characteristics, and not a compromise with a male one.

[TheBottomhoodofSteel]

9 hours ago, South8028 said:

Thanks for the answer. What's the problem with any number of skeletons in the game? Scatter the necessary girls in races with their skeletons "in the closet". ) There are at least two mods that do this, but they are not required, you can work on your own. Potential animation problems ... Yes, you are definitely right. But maybe you can make a skeleton that includes adjustments, on the verge of compromising with existing animations? I will be happy to integrate it into the game, at least I will find a way to use it separately for the player's body, or some npc.

As for cbbe. I am not going to distribute anything related to fg without your consent. Also, I'm not particularly interested in cbbe. I want to ensure that at least one real female body appears in fo4, with very flexible characteristics, and not a compromise with a male one.

The game isn't set up that way, and likes to break/crash. I already said that. The two mods that do this are known to cause crashes with a number of other mods among other issues. They're kludgefucks, not actual fixes or solutions. we not gonna sit here and allow ZeX to get associated with that nonsense. 

I don't need to add anything to "Fix" an issue that isn't present in Fusion Girl. Want fixed animations, then fix the mesh. Don't break the skeleton and toss in 10 kludgefucks to act like you "fixed" one issue when all you did was break your game further. 

Your idea of "real" female is really stupid and based on your personal aesthetic. Fusion Girl functions just fine and looks just fine depending on your slider choices, you just don't like that your delicate aesthetics are being violated by something that is designed to improve gameplay functionality and that is not my problem . I already have a "solution" that rebreaks the shoulders for A E S T H E T I C, I don't see it get used often, so... There's that enough.

The Slider work is already set in stone and the community either requested or liked the slider work I did enough for me to include it. Fusion Girl can go a wider range just fine with minimal issue. From slim to plus sized and in between. IF you don't like something that's been worked on over time and was favorited by the community, not my issue. 

I don't need someone kludging together CBBE and FG (again...) acting like they're making anything better telling me what I need and don't need or how realistic my work is when for the most part CBBE has a whole ass coochie sticker and half the "unrealistic" presets I've seen are all for CBBE and most of the presets for FG are... pretty ok. 

 

Like I said, The answer is always gonna be no if it involves breaking Fusion Girl to appease some bunch of idiots in their feelings cause we won't bow down and cater to CBBE or add/allow that stupid "fix" to exist on ZeX. ZeX is fine as it is and doesn't need much more to it, especially if it's doing nothing for the main ZeX works it's designed for. 

[South8028]

5 hours ago, TheBottomhoodofSteel said:

The game isn't set up that way, and likes to break/crash. I already said that. The two mods that do this are known to cause crashes with a number of other mods among other issues. They're kludgefucks, not actual fixes or solutions. we not gonna sit here and allow ZeX to get associated with that nonsense. 

I don't need to add anything to "Fix" an issue that isn't present in Fusion Girl. Want fixed animations, then fix the mesh. Don't break the skeleton and toss in 10 kludgefucks to act like you "fixed" one issue when all you did was break your game further. 

Your idea of "real" female is really stupid and based on your personal aesthetic. Fusion Girl functions just fine and looks just fine depending on your slider choices, you just don't like that your delicate aesthetics are being violated by something that is designed to improve gameplay functionality and that is not my problem . I already have a "solution" that rebreaks the shoulders for A E S T H E T I C, I don't see it get used often, so... There's that enough.

The Slider work is already set in stone and the community either requested or liked the slider work I did enough for me to include it. Fusion Girl can go a wider range just fine with minimal issue. From slim to plus sized and in between. IF you don't like something that's been worked on over time and was favorited by the community, not my issue. 

I don't need someone kludging together CBBE and FG (again...) acting like they're making anything better telling me what I need and don't need or how realistic my work is when for the most part CBBE has a whole ass coochie sticker and half the "unrealistic" presets I've seen are all for CBBE and most of the presets for FG are... pretty ok. 

 

Like I said, The answer is always gonna be no if it involves breaking Fusion Girl to appease some bunch of idiots in their feelings cause we won't bow down and cater to CBBE or add/allow that stupid "fix" to exist on ZeX. ZeX is fine as it is and doesn't need much more to it, especially if it's doing nothing for the main ZeX works it's designed for. 

If you think so, then it is right for you. Because you know your body and bones better. Can I continue to experiment with your body and bones on my own? ) It's not about the aesthetics of shoulder perception. The fact is that cbbe inherited and aggravated the errors of vanilla, and fg, despite the shoulders of the quarterback, could not completely get rid of these errors. As a result, no body is able to animate without nodal deformation of the mesh. fg, definitely does it much better than the rest, but not good enough to say "boy, this body is my dream." In general, I will learn to work with the fo4 skeleton. ) Thank you for taking the time to reply to someone like me and please forgive me for the indiscreet criticism.

[South8028]

On 3/29/2021 at 6:34 PM, TheBottomhoodofSteel said:

The game isn't set up that way, and likes to break/crash. I already said that. The two mods that do this are known to cause crashes with a number of other mods among other issues. They're kludgefucks, not actual fixes or solutions. we not gonna sit here and allow ZeX to get associated with that nonsense. 

I don't need to add anything to "Fix" an issue that isn't present in Fusion Girl. Want fixed animations, then fix the mesh. Don't break the skeleton and toss in 10 kludgefucks to act like you "fixed" one issue when all you did was break your game further. 

Your idea of "real" female is really stupid and based on your personal aesthetic. Fusion Girl functions just fine and looks just fine depending on your slider choices, you just don't like that your delicate aesthetics are being violated by something that is designed to improve gameplay functionality and that is not my problem . I already have a "solution" that rebreaks the shoulders for A E S T H E T I C, I don't see it get used often, so... There's that enough.

The Slider work is already set in stone and the community either requested or liked the slider work I did enough for me to include it. Fusion Girl can go a wider range just fine with minimal issue. From slim to plus sized and in between. IF you don't like something that's been worked on over time and was favorited by the community, not my issue. 

I don't need someone kludging together CBBE and FG (again...) acting like they're making anything better telling me what I need and don't need or how realistic my work is when for the most part CBBE has a whole ass coochie sticker and half the "unrealistic" presets I've seen are all for CBBE and most of the presets for FG are... pretty ok. 

 

Like I said, The answer is always gonna be no if it involves breaking Fusion Girl to appease some bunch of idiots in their feelings cause we won't bow down and cater to CBBE or add/allow that stupid "fix" to exist on ZeX. ZeX is fine as it is and doesn't need much more to it, especially if it's doing nothing for the main ZeX works it's designed for. 

Excuse for troubling. I solved the problem with the wide shoulders of the FG. The problem was not with the skeleton, but probably with a conflict in the weights of the bones on the mesh. I replaced the bone weights with cbbe and vanilla ones, edited them and the shoulders could be reduced to the same size as cbbe without deforming the mesh. The size of the shoulders does not have any visible effect on the animation. Now I can use FG

Spoiler

. )

[DoubleGamers]

Last time I played Fallout 4 I went with CBBE and it had this horrible and very noticeable neck seam that I was unable to fix. Does Fusion Girl have this issue as well? I would love to play Fallout 4 again but every time I see that neck seam on CBBE I can't seem to bring myself to play at all.

[kharneth1]

2 hours ago, DoubleGamers said:

Last time I played Fallout 4 I went with CBBE and it had this horrible and very noticeable neck seam that I was unable to fix. Does Fusion Girl have this issue as well? I would love to play Fallout 4 again but every time I see that neck seam on CBBE I can't seem to bring myself to play at all.

This isn't related to CBBE or FG (Or any other body). It's relate to body and face textures, you need to pick a pair of them that "mach" well. Trial and error is usually the best way, textures can be change at any moment so is doesn't harm trying different combinations even mid playthrough

[Karna5]

On 4/7/2021 at 4:10 PM, kharneth1 said:

This isn't related to CBBE or FG (Or any other body). It's relate to body and face textures, you need to pick a pair of them that "mach" well. Trial and error is usually the best way, textures can be change at any moment so is doesn't harm trying different combinations even mid playthrough

 

Kharneth1 is correct, but there's also a dramatic gap which can appear in the neck if one uses very old CBBE mods. As I recall (it's a years old memory) CBBE made a change at one point which made old outfits somewhat incompatible with newer ones. For instance, I recall the original release of Toxic Raider outfit had that issue quite badly after the CBBE change. The fix, of course, is simple. It just needed the reference body replaced with a newer one inside the Outfit Studio project.

 

If somebody is getting an actual gap in the neck, they should redo the project with a current reference body.

[.lotty]

I think that Fusion girl is definitely the best since the bodies look like a mix between CBBE and Atomic Beauty!
But if is about functionality in the terms of physics, CBBE is the best. If you just want extreme, radioactive & hot sexy bodies I would go with AB.

[jg8ts]

I prefer FG over CBBE and most of the armor I might like has conversions in place for it now. In my mind FG looks better and is more amenable to providing me with a body I like.

 

The one thing I miss is that the FG conversion of the Fortaleza armor doesn't included the naked bodysuit, so I can't build it in bodyslide, meaning that the body looks deformed if i wear it (and who doesn't want more armor).

[ayibogan]

I switched from CBBE to Fusion Girl. It felt so ugly, I went back to CBBE.

 

Edited February 26, 2023 by ayibogan

[TheBottomhoodofSteel]

13 hours ago, HeavyYoungHeathens said:

The biggest eye-sore are the shoulders, they are way to wide and it really feels like you are playing a man if you look at your character from behind (even when the slider for shoulder width at max)
The boobas are also an issue, they are too wide and apart from each other, just doesn't feel right no matter how much time you spend in bodyslide or looksmenu
The head feels weirdly smaller in proportion to the body
All of the presets available are focused around fat/chubby bodytypes

 

Honestly I stg some of y'all need to put the porn down and touch grass...
 

I'll just casually leave this here. You can guess which one is CBBE and Which one is Fusion Girl! 

 

 

Presets available by Default ... 1 fatter bodytype (Not even that extreme). 

[Karna5]

One of the things I love about the Fusion Girl BodySlide is the Armpit In slider. It allows for much more realistic looking large breasts. In real life, large breasts, whether natural or surgically enhanced, are smaller at the top than the bottom, but without that Armpit In slider the effect cannot be correctly achieved.

 

 

The above image is using Fusion Girl, and if someone thinks that's masculine or less realistic than CBBE I agree with TBoS that they should spend more time outside  

 

Slender presets in FG are also incredibly beautiful, but this isn't a picture thread, so I won't give more examples.

 

p.s. On side note, the hairstyle on the right in the image is called Thorns and is from TBoS' Antos hair pack.

 

 

Edited July 2, 2023 by Karna5

[Spyder Arachnid]

11 hours ago, Karna5 said:

One of the things I love about the Fusion Girl BodySlide is the Armpit In slider. It allows for much more realistic looking large breasts. In real life, large breasts, whether natural or surgically enhanced, are smaller at the top than the bottom, but without that Armpit In slider the effect cannot be correctly achieved.

 

 

The above image is using Fusion Girl, and if someone thinks that's masculine or less realistic than CBBE I agree with TBoS that they should spend more time outside  

 

Slender presets in FG are also incredibly beautiful, but this isn't a picture thread, so I won't give more examples.

 

p.s. On side note, the hairstyle on the right in the image is called Thorns and is from TBoS' Antos hair pack.

 

 

 

You can get that with CBBE as well. It's not exclusive to FG.

 

TWB is built off CBBE and has the armpit in as well. And they work just fine together (CBBE and TWB). You won't notice it too much in outfits and such, so it's fine to build those like normal in CBBE. But when nude, build your nude body using the same CBBE preset with TWB (since CBBE presets work with TWB) and use the armpit in slider to get that same effect on your CBBE body.

[Karna5]

18 minutes ago, Spyder Arachnid said:

 

You can get that with CBBE as well. It's not exclusive to FG.

 

TWB is built off CBBE and has the armpit in as well. And they work just fine together (CBBE and TWB). You won't notice it too much in outfits and such, so it's fine to build those like normal in CBBE. But when nude, build your nude body using the same CBBE preset with TWB (since CBBE presets work with TWB) and use the armpit in slider to get that same effect on your CBBE body.

 

Although I uninstalled CBBE back in 2019, you probably know I did the CBBE physics conversions for EasyGirl back when that came out, so I just checked the CBBE sliders on that and confirmed CBBE did not have armpit in sliders. If you're correct that CBBE has it now, it was introduced after FG introduced them. You're suggesting CBBE or TWB copied FG to make those sliders.

 

I remain skeptical of your claim that CBBE has the armpit in slider for the breasts (not the back of the armpit but the actual breasts). I know for a fact CBBE did not have it in 2019.