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KoolHndLuke

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I am taking a class this semester that teaches about pc construction and repair and omg it is SO much info to try and remember! But, some of it is sinking in and I'm happy to say that I'm doing "ok" in the course. TestOut is the site my instructor chose for us to use and I must admit that they do a pretty thorough job of explaining things.

 

Now, as far as choosing parts for a potential build for a pc- we are supposed to use PCPartPicker. I've only used it a couple of times and I like the way parts are presented with all the info I need. What's better is that it will let you save your custom build and check for compatibility issues on the fly, warning when something is going to present a problem. I'm thinking of using it when I build my new pc next year and I wanted to get some opinions on it if I could. Are there any other sites that do the same thing? Are they better?

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I just had a play around with the site you posted and found it a pain to use, mostly due to not automatically filtering out stuff that do not match with what you have already picked, or at least it did not for me, my usual place is here https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/

 

Not quite as detailed or comprehensive but much easier to work with in my view.  Though for a course the site you mentioned may well be much more useful.

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24 minutes ago, Varithina said:

I just had a play around with the site you posted and found it a pain to use, mostly due to not automatically filtering out stuff that do not match with what you have already picked, or at least it did not for me, my usual place is here https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/

 

Not quite as detailed or comprehensive but much easier to work with in my view.  Though for a course the site you mentioned may well be much more useful.

I didn't see mention of where the parts are from. I mean like are these factory parts only? Also I didn't see an option for the U.S., so I'm guessing they don't ship here? I like the cost reduction of used parts, but, I'm still kinda unclear about what used parts are ok to look for and which are not. Like used monitors should be fine as well as maybe used processors I think. With something like storage (hdd,ssd), I would think new would be best since the life of those used is much shorter.

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Park picker is a great place to go and start to gather up your ideas and get general concepts of what you need and want to do.

 

that being said.. don't trust 100% the picks you choose. There have been known to have incompatibilities. I mention this as many places charge a restock fee if you can get that. Nothing is worse than having the wrong part.. except perhaps not being able to return it.

 

Oh, it is also good to show others what you are thinking of and to gather up ideas and such and get suggestions from others to be sure you have the bests info and not missing out on some idea or need.

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2 hours ago, RitualClarity said:

it is also good to show others what you are thinking of and to gather up ideas and such and get suggestions from others to be sure you have the bests info and not missing out on some idea or need.

Oh, I have ideas of what I want to build! But, I need to fit a build into as cheap a budget as possible. It would be fuckin' awesome to have a budget of say......$1500- $2000. I'm thinking the motherboard and processor are the main things I need to focus on. Is there anything wrong with used parts for those? I was going to go with at least three new sata drives and use raid 5 controller card maybe. I'd love to have ssd instead, but not sure it's worth the extra money.

 

As far as incompatibilities go, I think what they check is more "at a glance". I would have to double check everything to have a better idea.

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8 hours ago, KoolHndLuke said:

I didn't see mention of where the parts are from. I mean like are these factory parts only? Also I didn't see an option for the U.S., so I'm guessing they don't ship here? I like the cost reduction of used parts, but, I'm still kinda unclear about what used parts are ok to look for and which are not. Like used monitors should be fine as well as maybe used processors I think. With something like storage (hdd,ssd), I would think new would be best since the life of those used is much shorter.

They do not really deal with that side of it, they are mostly a build it location and you do not get the parts, they are pre built systems, with full warranty, as for new or second hand they are all new they do not as far as I am aware do reconditioned parts in their machines.  And no I think they are pretty much uk based only for delivery, but as that is where I am based no problem.  Though I tend to mainly just use the build to see what I want then go look around at other sources as to the final build, or if feeling in a very good mood go to a place that sells parts, this is my normal source of parts https://www.ebuyer.com/ , though they do not have a built helper, they are pretty much buy that parts you need, then build myself, though I am finding it harder and harder due to various things to build and problem solve those builds now.

 

From what I have seen in the uk if you want second hand or reconditioned parts they are usually sold by different stores.  Though that is not something I have every looked into I would rather buy things new, even if it takes me a few more months to save up to buy the stuff.

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Used anything is of course hit or miss but a cpu if it works should continue to work fine for you. I have picked up a few over the years never had problem with that.

Gpu might be mining card and have modded bios, you can fix this but it's not without risk so I would check with seller if possible first so you can decide if you want to mess with it.

I would not get anything else used for internal parts and always get a good psu don't go cheap there for any reason unless you like to watch your money burn. Used cases often times shipping costs make it unreasonable but I have picked up a few mini itx cases and if the seller is any good it will have all the hardware with it.

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MSI MAG Z390 Tomahawk + Intel Core i5-9600K + be quiet! or Noctua CPU Cooler.

or

Asus TUF GAMING X570-PLUS + AMD Ryzen 7 3700X (using stock cooler)

 

both combos costs about the same, but AMD has more processing power + the socket is future proof.

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3 hours ago, RW311 said:

Used anything is of course hit or miss but a cpu if it works should continue to work fine for you

Thanks. I've never heard anyone say that their cpu quits in a computer. If it does, then most likely it wasn't being cooled properly- or so I've read. The book I'm studying right now suggests a liquid cooler for cpu in a gaming setup. But some makes run at higher temps than others, don't they? I've pushed my poor little i3 for years now and haven't noticed anything wrong with it yet- which is surprising since I live in a very hot region and I smoke which clogs the fans some (tar).

 

2 hours ago, MadMansGun said:

MSI MAG Z390 Tomahawk + Intel Core i5-9600K + be quiet! or Noctua CPU Cooler.

or

Asus TUF GAMING X570-PLUS + AMD Ryzen 7 3700X (using stock cooler)

 

both combos costs about the same, but AMD has more processing power + the socket is future proof.

Yeah, my instructor keeps saying AMD is as good or better and cheaper than intel equivalent. Probably what I'll go with. I really need to study more on processors, though. Are there certain features that I should be looking for? Or just raw power?

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2 hours ago, KoolHndLuke said:

The book I'm studying right now suggests a liquid cooler for cpu in a gaming setup. But some makes run at higher temps than others, don't they?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23vjWtUpItk

 

2 hours ago, KoolHndLuke said:

Yeah, my instructor keeps saying AMD is as good or better and cheaper than intel equivalent. Probably what I'll go with. I really need to study more on processors, though. Are there certain features that I should be looking for? Or just raw power?

Intel has dropped the ball with it's many crippling security flaws, and the patches for them have slowed down the processing speed.

 

AMD is massively better at productivity tasks (the large L3 cache helps)

 

AMD comes with a adequate cooler (just make sure you flip the hidden switch on it to the "H" position) , Intel dose not come with a cooler.

(depending on what you want that could be a good thing or a bad thing, Eg: AMD are forcing you to buy there included cooler, so that's killing the savings if you wanted to use a different one)

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12 hours ago, KoolHndLuke said:

Oh, I have ideas of what I want to build! But, I need to fit a build into as cheap a budget as possible. It would be fuckin' awesome to have a budget of say......$1500- $2000. I'm thinking the motherboard and processor are the main things I need to focus on. Is there anything wrong with used parts for those? I was going to go with at least three new sata drives and use raid 5 controller card maybe. I'd love to have ssd instead, but not sure it's worth the extra money.

 

As far as incompatibilities go, I think what they check is more "at a glance". I would have to double check everything to have a better idea.

With that budget you can get a really good gaming machine and still have an ssd or 2.. :D

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3 hours ago, RitualClarity said:

With that budget you can get a really good gaming machine and still have an ssd or 2.. :D

I said it would be awesome to have that much, lol. My budget will probably be more like $800- $1000- which admittedly would be enough for a very respectable build. :classic_tongue: I'm thinking that by designing my own, I can build a pc that is comparable to a much more expensive factory gaming pc. The main thing I want to do is to have a pc that can be upgraded as much as possible. The case and motherboard are some of the main concerns for me there since you can't squeeze some gpus into a smaller case (like what I have now)-  https://www.pcworld.com/article/3226748/how-to-buy-pc-case.html

 

and the motherboard since it needs certain features that I might want/need- https://shop.bt.com/blog/what-to-consider-when-buying-a-motherboard/

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1 hour ago, KoolHndLuke said:

I said it would be awesome to have that much, lol. My budget will probably be more like $800- $1000- which admittedly would be enough for a very respectable build. :classic_tongue: I'm thinking that by designing my own, I can build a pc that is comparable to a much more expensive factory gaming pc. The main thing I want to do is to have a pc that can be upgraded as much as possible. The case and motherboard are some of the main concerns for me there since you can't squeeze some gpus into a smaller case (like what I have now)-  https://www.pcworld.com/article/3226748/how-to-buy-pc-case.html

 

and the motherboard since it needs certain features that I might want/need- https://shop.bt.com/blog/what-to-consider-when-buying-a-motherboard/

Yes you did... I missed that. :(

 

In any case 800 to 1000 can be pretty good as well. Just means you have to be mroe careful on the core components you buy.  For example I have a 4790K and a upper level motherboard and ram.  I a couple of years ago upgraded that unit from a GTX670, then a GTX970 and now on a GTX1080ti.  Upgraded the SSDs from one, to mutiple and at least 1 or two upgrades from those I bought when the prices /size was higher/smaller. respectively. 

 

Once you get a good solid computer (case as well as core components) it becomes much easier trade out things. Even in my case, the oldest tings I have are the processor motheboard and ram. All interlinked an dI have to replace all those at one time. ($$$) so difficult. But still easily within your budget .. for example.  3600x (amd) a 200 dollar motherboard and 150~200 for ram. 600 or so dollars well below your budget... :D  with your budget I could upgrad to better processor, ram and motherboard. ;) This is the #1 reason for building your own computer if you want to game. IMO

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12 hours ago, KoolHndLuke said:

Thanks. I've never heard anyone say that their cpu quits in a computer. If it does, then most likely it wasn't being cooled properly- or so I've read. The book I'm studying right now suggests a liquid cooler for cpu in a gaming setup. But some makes run at higher temps than others, don't they? I've pushed my poor little i3 for years now and haven't noticed anything wrong with it yet- which is surprising since I live in a very hot region and I smoke which clogs the fans some (tar).

 

Yeah, my instructor keeps saying AMD is as good or better and cheaper than intel equivalent. Probably what I'll go with. I really need to study more on processors, though. Are there certain features that I should be looking for? Or just raw power?

 

Yes liquid cooling depends on the cpu and the work load, not sure why they would say it's recommended because there are so many scenarios where it shouldn't be.

I think maybe they mistake gaming pc for enthusiast pc because almost any cheap off the shelf pos can be a gaming pc if you put a decent graphics card in it.

 

IF you buy any current generation cpu it will have the latest instruction sets for x86 1st gen ryzen is still up to date same with most intels from the last 4 years. x86 evolves much slower than ARM and RISC and unless you go back several generations the lack of those instructions doesn't mean you can't use it anymore.

I have an ancient SolTek motherboard for socket A, running an athlon 3200xp and it is running as a router for a back office... I think I built that in 1999 or 2000 maybe I forget when that came out anyway they are never useless until they die.

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Hey,  AMD just released their 800 dollar processor :P

 

Also @RW311 wouldn't it be better (cheaper in the long run) to run your router software and such using a Pie system. The power requirements for your computer you are using is way more if it can be done with a modern Pie processor system.  Sure they don't die but they use a lot of power for what they give you ;) (older computers.)

 

https://www.instructables.com/id/Use-Raspberry-Pi-3-As-Router/

 

https://pi-hole.net/

 

However, I don't know how serious of h ardware or such you need. ;)

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Intel released a "new" HEDT chip and it became obsolete in 6 hours, that was fun to watch unless you work for Intel I guess.

I have a 3b running a NAS at home but it probably couldn't do as much. The router is at my shop and it was done as a project with some local students so it's not having any impact on power, well it couldn't anyway because we sell power generated from gas wells on the property so that box if left on would take a few thousand years to show up in accounting.

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Got some money finally and I'm building my new pc!! I searched to find the parts that would give me the most bang for my buck and came up with this;

Spoiler

CPU        

AMD Ryzen 7 2700X 3.7 GHz 8-Core Processor    $164.49    
Motherboard        

Asus ROG STRIX X470-F Gaming ATX AM4 Motherboard    $169.99    
Memory        

GeIL SUPER LUCE RGB 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory    $82.99    
Storage        

Samsung 970 Evo 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive    $168.99    
Video Card        

Sapphire Radeon RX 580 8 GB PULSE Video Card    $179.99    
Case        

Corsair 275R Airflow ATX Mid Tower Case    $69.99    
Power Supply        

Corsair RM (2019) 650 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply    $109.86    
Operating System        

Microsoft Windows 10 Home OEM 64-bit    $99.99    
Total:    $1046.29

 

For now I'm just going to use the old monitor, keyboard and mouse from my pos sitting on my desk and replace them later as I get more money. If anyone has comments or thinks something would be better/cheaper, then I'm all ears. :classic_smile: Like I'm not sure I need that expensive a cpu and I'm not really sure what memory I should be looking for and how it compares to others.

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I figure that with a teacher at your side, you'll do very well, 

but I am here for selfish reasons, assuming you ever buy a new monitor.

Ask the teacher if he knows why optical displayport-cables are so drastically spread out in price, 

If the buzzword "AOC" (Active optical cable) means much, because ALL optical displayport cables must by definition, be active and optical, and cables.

I just bought a $60 cable that could have been tons more if I'd bought the AOC kind. 

So, it's just a question,

But I'll try and google a link or two....

Explain to him before he dies laughing, that I needed the "Optical" for elimination of noise on the line.

noise.JPG.bbd58f1e8dfa5734d10454b34ae2c99e.JPG

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1 hour ago, 2dk2c.2 said:

I figure that with a teacher at your side, you'll do very well, 

but I am here for selfish reasons, assuming you ever buy a new monitor.

Ask the teacher if he knows why optical displayport-cables are so drastically spread out in price, 

If the buzzword "AOC" (Active optical cable) means much, because ALL optical displayport cables must by definition, be active and optical, and cables.

I just bought a $60 cable that could have been tons more if I'd bought the AOC kind. 

So, it's just a question,

But I'll try and google a link or two....

Explain to him before he dies laughing, that I needed the "Optical" for elimination of noise on the line.

 

Found this article. Maybe it will help you figure things out.

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7 hours ago, KoolHndLuke said:

Like I'm not sure I need that expensive a cpu and I'm not really sure what memory I should be looking for and how it compares to others.

Everybody need a expensive CPU because, normally, nobody change their CPU. Only a very small group of people sell and buy CPU's by second hand, and is a risk.  My CPU, i5-4460, have 6 years now but when i go to change it i go to change the entire machine.

 

Normally, change the CPU mean change CPU + Motherboard + Memory because the socket of the CPU must match the socket in the motherboard and use old memory in a new motherboard whit a new CPU can drop the performance. Only a very small numbers of new CPU's match the old sockets and normally not have good performance. Then, is not recomend change the CPU alone.

 

Buy a expensive CPU is the most normal thing because, probably, you not go to change it in at least 5 years.

Then, is stricly necesary buy a good and expensive CPU because when the CPU get 100% the machine slow down a lot. Mi i5-4460 have enougth perfomance for me after 6 years but start giving me very low performance in some games and i know that, probably, i must chage it to play CyberPunk or StarField.

 

 

Another totally diferent thing is the motherboard. You have selected a very expensive motherboard. Waste more money in motherboard than CPU is not logic and, normally, is not necesary.

The only real important diference from a motherboard to another is the number of power

converters. You only need a expensive motherboard when you go to make overclock on the CPU because the number of power converters can have a big influence in the stability. If you are not thinking in make OverClock to the CPU you not need a expensive mothertboard.

The performance of the diferent motherboards and chipset are practically the same. Take a look to some comparations in the web. Really, the diference in the perfomance of the computer ussing exactly the same CPU, memory and Video card in diferent motherboards with diferent chipset is mimimal.

 

Apart, the selection of the motherboard must be made thinking in what you need. For example:

Not select a motherboard whit 2 PCIx16 to put 2 video cards if you not think in use SLI or CrossFire. 

Not select a motherboard whit integrated Wifi Network when you go to use LAN cable.

Not select a motherboard whit 2 Network LAN cable conections if you only go to use one of them.

Not select a motherboard whit 3 M2-SSD slots if, today, you only go to use one of them.

Making only that selections you can drop the price of the motherbaord to half.

 

Of course, you must have in consideration others parameters when select a motherboard. For example:

Probably, you not go to use SLI or CrossFire but with DirectX 12 we can use 2 video cards.

If you go to put 2 M2-SSD today can be necesary have another M2-SSD slot free but you always can put a M2-SSD in a slot 4x PCI-xpress of the motherboard because, probably, you never go to fill all the PCI slots of the motherboard.

Normally, the people buy motherboards with a cost near half of the cost of the CPU.

 

 

Talking about memory, i recomend you put 32 GB of memory directly. Yes, is a bit more of money but allow you upgrade to 64 GB of memory when you want whitout any problem. You must look how many memory slots you have your NEW motherboard. Your super expensive selected motherboard only have 4 memory slots.

If you fill 2 of them whit 8+8=16 you only can upgrade to 8+8+8+8=32 GB

If you fill 2 of them whit 16+16=32 you can upgrade to 16+16+16+16=64 GB

Is NOT recomended upgrade from 8+8=16 to 8+8+16+16=48 GB because you can lost the dual chanel.

Is a risk configuration where the dual chanel is not totally guaranted and direcly depend of the exact configuration and the exact motherboard and the exact memory chips.

Of course, you always can remove yours OLD 8+8 and trow them to the trash to put NEW 16+16+16+16. But why make it? Buy today 16+16 and be sure you always can use it and you never need trow it to the trash.

 

Aditionally, the diferent speeds of the memory have a very low impact in the performance of the machine.

In general, is better buy memory of bigger size than memory of bigger speed.

Except when you go to use specific programs that make a very intensive use of the memory, like Pinacle Video Editor or Adobe Premiere and similar.

As more free RAM you have in the machine better general performance you have.

When the RAM run out Windows start ussing Virtual Ram from the super slow hard disk and the performance of the machine drop in a drastic way.

Is much better have always free RAM because that free RAM are ussed by the Cache of the Operating System and reduce in a tremendous way the number of access to the Hard Disk and, finally, can increase the life time of the M2-SSD units.

 

As notice, I have 16 GB in my 6 years old machine. Put 16 GB in a new machine is not logic.

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19 minutes ago, GenioMaestro said:

5 years

interesting, I follow the 5 years rule too. Not from knowledge, but from practical needs. Every 5 years games force me to update (or other software got more ressource hungry).

Maybe this time the rule gets broken, because my PC is only a few years old now and I don't see a need as long I focus on skyrim.

Also I discovered very late how important a good CPU has become, focus was always somewhat on graphic card and memory.

 

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45 minutes ago, donttouchmethere said:

Also I discovered very late how important a good CPU has become, focus was always somewhat on graphic card and memory.

The CPU is the most important component of the machine because change CPU, normally, mean new entire machine or, at least, HALF new machine.

Use OLD components in a new HALF machine is not recomended because can affect performance. 

A new expensive flawless CPU + MotherBoard + Memory can give you a low performance and strange problems caused by the old Video Card or the old PSU or the old super slow hard disk.

 

The components in the machine must be equilibrated. A old Video Card in a new HALF machine not give good performance. A small amount of RAM can low a lot the general performance of a new HALF machine, if you not updgrade memory. With a slow hard disk your new HALF machine can not run as expected.

 

For other side, you always can change the Video Card in a very easy way and upgrade the memory when you whant while preserve the CPU + MotherBoard + Memory but for get a rasonable performance you must a have an old CPU that match the performance ot the new Video Card. For Example:

I can put a GTX 1060 whit my I5-4460 because can extract a rasonable performance from it.

But i can not put a GTX 1660 because my I5-4460 is too weak for that video card and is a waste of money.

 

The most important thing is have a equilibrated machine.

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I get windows keys from ebay never had issues. OEM win 10 pro normally less than $30 bucks.

 

The cpu is a good choice but the motherboard is just overkill. If you are not really sure you want to mess with sli/xfire then there is no need for x470 because b450 will do everything you want except that for half the price.

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5 hours ago, KoolHndLuke said:

Found this article. Maybe it will help you figure things out.

OK I'll make my question (single) into multiple questions followed by a bombast:

 

Electrical copper cables of any kind (eg, HDMI) can be vulnerable to EMI.

So, blurbs on cables list positive attributes like shielding and/or ferrite cores, and wire gauge (and on and on)

 

Displayport cables with ferrite cores are rare if they even exist.

 

I read articles like yours (thanks)

 

and

 

Decided upon good quality Optical,

 

But was met with a choice ("do you want fries with that?")

 

AOC (active optical)

 

vs non.

 

AOC is too expensive for me to even consider 

Non AOC 32ghz etc Optical (yada blah) capable cables use computer integrated circuits to convert electrical signals into light

and back again.

While most people only care about the increased cable-length without degradation, a side effect is,

they are mostly invulnerable to EMI.

One type vs another, differentiated by frequency capability (they can go higher than 100 Ghz) would justify price,

But most DP cables only need around 32Ghz.

 

Except for the part about frequency, the only articles are from manufacturers of Optical cables.

 

I *needed* optical for its EMI-shielding qualities and I didn't want to waste money on Ferrite cores.

 

But The chips could possibly fail, and the chips, being electrical, could be subject to EMI.

 

I'll argue with myself for a second and play devil's advocate:

"HIGH quality DP cables do not have to be optical"

True.

Care to impart which?

"VESA certified. There's some list"

 

I doubt VESA has time to care much about Optical cables.

 

And anyway I made my choice, after debating (as above) with myself about AOC vs non AOC.

(repeating, they have to be active or DP-to-light-to-DP cables wouldn't work)

AOC must(?) be some buzzword propagated by a company (eg corelle, pyrex)

so I gambled on a good quality Optical DP cable and my EMI problems are gone,

Maybe.

==============

people who sell stuff need buzzwords to keep selling stuff year after year,

so pushing more memory, more cpu-cores, is a debatable subject.

Your choices seem adequate.

I'd maybe bias myself towards more GPU-Power, but I wouldn't launch some lecture circuit for NVidia based upon Benchmark scores,

I'd buy what PCPartPicker had on sale.

 

 


Capture.JPG.02e6a13d95ab7e6e8bc45a9e842789b7.JPG

 

for example, vs 70% higher priced 2080's, or (screw the list) and buy a gtx1660

 

 

Capture.thumb.JPG.31deaa9f1ea108e271536b4b58021f6d.JPG

 
My own personal wishlist includes a 3900x vs my 2700x.

Is the 17% jump in performance worth the 100++ percent jump in price?

I know prices only drop so far, and I'm basing my choices on a benchmark, 

but it's a wishlist.

 



 

 

 

835828620_pricevsperformance.thumb.JPG.68b9c7f985916f9dd69cbea230629d2e.JPG

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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