PCPartPicker

[27X]

33 minutes ago, RW311 said:

I get windows keys from ebay never had issues. OEM win 10 pro normally less than $30 bucks.

 

The cpu is a good choice but the motherboard is just overkill. If you are not really sure you want to mess with sli/xfire then there is no need for x470 because b450 will do everything you want except that for half the price.

wronguh.

 

wrong.

 

wrong.

 

The parts you NEVER EVER fuck with are CPU, PSU and Mobo. Ever. You never skimp, you never buy cheap, and you never buy from a company that doesn't do face forward returns or doesn't a have a direct shipping office that has people that speak the same language you do.

 

ever.

 

EVERRRRRR.

 

rr.

 

While there are certainly gamer-gimmick boards loaded with feature greeble, you are also buying the components that are going to allow that board and therefore the rest of your computer to function flawlessly for years. Amongst manufacturers, especially on the AMD side, X components are outsourced from more reliable vendors, period. X and B for most part have almost the same pathways and locations, difference being x are made with higher grade parts and the layers and paths are picked from the best tier of batches, and this difference is what allows them to live for the five year lifespan. This especially true in regard to Gigabyte and MSI. There is distinct difference in layering and pathing quality and QC, and that's directly reflected in the price. You're not overpaying, you're insuring your shit still works well after the warranty is over.

[t.ara]

Interesting thread-but in common not an ideal info.

27X shows you in result exactly what it is: marketing strategy of differnt enterprises all around the computer-industry, specially it´s a dealer´s support.

Nowadays you can very easy buy seperate parts by using the local used offers of used computer-parts and by that way put together a high-tech computer, which is working perfectly well for lot of years. Computers don´t get killed or die by their time, they are dropped by the technical overhaul and new incompatible o.s. or their driver politics. If you maybe want to save overall resources, by using NOT the latest stuff, you will be the real hero and with a good knowledge as well. Read a book!

Computer moddeling is not hard and everybody can handle that or can find a helping hand without becoming fooled by loosing some bucks.

My point of view is that a computer should be used and be restaurated for more than 10 years before looking to a new system in whole. 10 years is a long time.

I´m sure I can theoretically (I have no interest in new games yet) install all the actual games and play them in high quality as long the game´s engine is programmed in a lucky way. "Lucky way" means working for older systems. Lot of people do not jump on the "always-buy-a-new-hardware (specially: GPU)-train".

 

 

I would suggest to read some books about that theme (pc-parts and their functions, computer-build-up). This is a best choice. Book´s information offers a much more exactly knowledge, compared with the internet.

 

 

 

[KoolHndLuke]

8 hours ago, GenioMaestro said:

motherboard whit 2 PCIx16 to put 2 video cards if you not think in use SLI or CrossFire. 

I'm thinking of using dual cards and crossfire for newer games to support higher resolution graphics and better performance.

8 hours ago, GenioMaestro said:

If you are not thinking in make OverClock to the CPU you not need a expensive mothertboard.

Might want to OverClock, so I want the option.

8 hours ago, GenioMaestro said:

motherboard whit 3 M2-SSD slots if, today, you only go to use one of them.

M.2 is da SHIT!!! Fast as lightning with SSD NVMe. Dual slots works for me since I might use RAID or just extend the volume.

 

Also, can anyone give me a good reason why I would ever need 32 or even 64gb of RAM? 32gb if you're doing heavy video editing, 64gb for virtualization- neither of which I know anything about or need.

[KoolHndLuke]

2 hours ago, t.ara said:

I would suggest to read some books about that theme (pc-parts and their functions, computer-build-up). This is a best choice. Book´s information offers a much more exactly knowledge, compared with the internet.

I am reading books, and asking people, and looking at comparisons on sites like this one. As far as used parts go, Idk what is safe and what's not used. I'd rather spend the extra money on new to insure that I won't be needing to replace anything in 6 months- assuming I don't fuck something up putting the thing together.

[2dk2c.2]

1 hour ago, KoolHndLuke said:

I'm thinking of using dual cards and crossfire for newer games to support higher resolution graphics and better performance.

Might want to OverClock, so I want the option.

M.2 is da SHIT!!! Fast as lightning. Dual slots works for me since I might use RAID.

 

Also, can anyone give me a good reason why I would ever need 32 or even 64gb of RAM? 32gb if you're doing heavy video editing, 64gb for virtualization- neither of which I know anything about or need.

I am retarded at math but people read computer history and apply linear regression to how much memory you should have.

 

You used to need 4 then it had to be 8, now it's sixteen or you're in the middle-ages, and (I guess) now they're saying, 32.

I bet someone could prove that 4 is still enough, but people don't go that way, they'd rather buy freezers for their overclocked hamster of a CPU.

"Do more with less" is nobody's motto.

Least of all (for example) windows 10 and maybe 3dmark.

Although windows with all its services and bloatware still says I use less than 4 playing a single game.

But I guess a bit-mining server whose clients watch movies might need 8

[KoolHndLuke]

16 minutes ago, 2dk2c.2 said:

now they're saying, 32

You can always add more RAM later. For a gaming rig- 16gb is sufficient from what I've read. Found a good article on the subject.

[2dk2c.2]

7 minutes ago, KoolHndLuke said:

You can always add more RAM later. For a gaming rig- 16gb is sufficient from what I've read.

Yes, and the GPU has its own set of very fast memory to add to the mix,

and that NVME stick acts like cache if you want it to.

Memory's nice but it's spread around more than it used to be.

 

 

a 1200 horsepower car is nice too



 

[RW311]

11 hours ago, 27X said:

wronguh.

 

wrong.

 

wrong.

 

The parts you NEVER EVER fuck with are CPU, PSU and Mobo. Ever. You never skimp, you never buy cheap, and you never buy from a company that doesn't do face forward returns or doesn't a have a direct shipping office that has people that speak the same language you do.

 

ever.

 

EVERRRRRR.

 

rr.

 

While there are certainly gamer-gimmick boards loaded with feature greeble, you are also buying the components that are going to allow that board and therefore the rest of your computer to function flawlessly for years. Amongst manufacturers, especially on the AMD side, X components are outsourced from more reliable vendors, period. X and B for most part have almost the same pathways and locations, difference being x are made with higher grade parts and the layers and paths are picked from the best tier of batches, and this difference is what allows them to live for the five year lifespan. This especially true in regard to Gigabyte and MSI. There is distinct difference in layering and pathing quality and QC, and that's directly reflected in the price. You're not overpaying, you're insuring your shit still works well after the warranty is over.

 

Going from x to b because you don't need sli does not mean go buy the cheapest board out there.

Some really awful x boards and some really solid a boards but it varies all over the place and doesn't even hold true for the same board builders even in the same time frame. Two different boards both built by one board builder and use the exact same vrm will not even perform the same because one has a heatsink that really works and one looks really neat, the neat one is expensive high end x chipset but the one that cools adequately is a b series.  So the belief that buying the high end actually gets you longevity or stability does not hold up in testing the boards.

 

[KoolHndLuke]

Downside of building a new gaming pc? I don't want to touch any of my games until the new one is ready. 

[2dk2c.2]

2 hours ago, KoolHndLuke said:

Downside of building a new gaming pc? I don't want to touch any of my games until the new one is ready. 

If ya wanna feel good about your choices (and you're bored waiting) run games with an eye towards benchmarking them.

Learn the current slow spots and crashes.

Overclock (because, why not, it's dump-food in a month)

and then when your new hotness arrives,

You'll be smug as hell that whatever you decided on works faster.

 

There oughta be a case graveyard you could send cases to.

I've got a Lanboy Air that's not bad. Some tiewrap and tape for some of the fan mounts and you've got a case that would last years.

Powersupplies never really die, they just end up in my closet.

M12D 850 -watt will be found by archeologists years from now in working order and with all the cables.

 

(although there's a old story they teach you in school, that capacitors have a shelf-life, and therefore electronics go bad just sitting there,

but *I* think it's a tale spun by capacitor-salesmen)

[MadMansGun]

7 minutes ago, 2dk2c.2 said:

Powersupplies never really die, they just end up in my closet.

i've killed 3 so far in my life....all within the past 10 years.

[2dk2c.2]

2 minutes ago, MadMansGun said:

i've killed 3 so far in my life....all within the past 10 years.

I'm benevolent.

[KoolHndLuke]

Well.......CF or SLI are out! Seems some games don't even support them and the ones that do run like shit compared to a single, more powerful gpu.

[KoolHndLuke]

19 minutes ago, Alkpaz said:

If you are a new game only player, then SLI/CF would be a boon for you

Not according to this test- https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/2886-crossfire-rx-580-rx-480-benchmarks-vs-single-gpu/page-3

[RitualClarity]

On 2/14/2020 at 5:59 AM, 27X said:

wronguh.

 

wrong.

 

wrong.

 

The parts you NEVER EVER fuck with are CPU, PSU and Mobo. Ever. You never skimp, you never buy cheap, and you never buy from a company that doesn't do face forward returns or doesn't a have a direct shipping office that has people that speak the same language you do.

 

ever.

 

EVERRRRRR.

 

rr.

 

 

I will have to disagree with you...
However, also agree...

 

Sometimes you have to get some lower quality hardware. Due to circumstances beyond your control at the time , this might be the case. There are good quality lower level motherboards and CPUs that do a decent job. Same goes for Graphics and power supplies. They are few and far between and you will have to make some compromises but it can be done.

 

The key is THE BUYER NEEDS TO KNOW  the limitations and what they are compromising on. The fact that the hardware will become obsolete much sooner than a higher quality part (generally) if they don't wear out sooner (dependent on case usage of course)

 

You can get a cheap decent build for gaming and do well.. not super good but can get the job done IF YOU HAVE REASONABLE EXPECTATIONS on what will come from that hardware.

 

Now on to your point @27X or so I believe it is due to your post.  You should always strive to get the highest quality equipment you can if you are serious about your hardware and expect a terrific return on investment. This I agree with.  You don't have to spend $600 dollars on a motherboard and 1100 dollars on a processor to do this. In the case of AMD a x570 with mid line features should be solid.. the 3600X and up should be good to go. A GTX 1060 or above for a 1080p monitor and GTX 2070 or equivalent for a 2k monitor (with some compromises) Should be a good start. (not sure on the AMD graphics cards. Sorry) Monitors .. a high refresh low latency (120 or better preferred) is solid.. a X sync monitor (comparable with your graphics card) is preferred. Going lower.. will leave with lots of compromises (visual)

 

It doesn't take much to get a good setup... Often times the more preferred hardware option is 20~50 dollars different.. Across the entire build this can cost 250~300 dollars more.. but.. you can rock the system for many years and still have great results. I am not just talking out my ass.. I choose a 4790k with a Asus Hero board and 16 gigs of solid ram and I am still rocking Witcher and other games without an issue. ONly change.. is from a GTX670, to a GTX 970 then to a GTX 1080TI. (last change was due to upgrading my monitor to a 2k.. A 970 is a 1080p graphics card. .. it was excellent for that by the way)

 

Finally the company statement.. that is extremely strongly advised .. that shows that the company is concerned with your business. It shows they care and are wiling to invest in support and assistance for you. You might never need it, but it is extremely nice if you should find that you do   I woudn't go as far as to tell you to never ever not purchase a hardware from such a company that doesn't do the above.. but strongly advise against it. YOU NEED TO HAVE A SERIOUS REASON to not do so. Like it was FREE OR SOMETHING...  or you want to toss your money out the door. If that is the case.. you still should get hardware from a solid company with excellent support.. AND the 600 dollar motherboard and the 900 dollar processor and about 500 dollars of memory.. etc... lol

 

I had to comment as I don't agree with extremes. If you are going against the advised statement of @27X and others that believe the same... you should know exactly what you are doing, what you are cutting your self short on.. and it be of proper value (savings etc) for this to happen. Keep in mind that the hardware is interdependent and cutting short on on can easily fuck up others so ... you could end up with one piece of shit hardware that takes out the rest ... I am a firm believer that people should do what they want.. provided they have an educated reason for doing so.. but... don't come crying to me when it fucks up..

 

P.S.. perhaps if money is a concern.. get the better of the last gen if still available. That is what I did (well two gens previous.. it was 6th gen coming out at the time I got my processor etc) Nice savings.. and possible solid hardware .. Just it becomes out dated quicker... For me... the hardware works perfectly for my needs at that time and due to my usage expectation.. would still work all the way to now and I was right.

If my shit blew up today (motherboard, processor and ram) I'd likely get a 3600X, an midrange x570 and some lower priced Crucial or corsair memory.. (16 gigs) If money was a concern. A 2700x, a nice x470 board and again the same memory. save about 100~200 dollars.

[27X]

Sorry, but I don't give the slightest fuck about anecdotal physics. I am concerned with part tolerances and even more specifically with congregations of parts tolerances as a whole.

 

That one time you bought a discount board and kept it forever and it for all of time and space and was eternal is literally meaningless. Good for you. Meanwhile buying bad boards and bad parts on those boards happens with pretty reliable regularity to the general public, and if you don't have a great warranty and a system in place to either get a *perfectly* equivalent replacement or your money in its "totality" back, you're generally fucked.

 

EVGA doesn't make AMD anything. EVGA is pretty famous for getting strong returns as policy, and treats with their customers accordingly.

 

With AMD specifically, as a manufacturer, they have distinct tiers, and you don't have to look further than the 5XXX mess currently making the rounds that getting what you pay for with vendors is not a straightforward transaction. While the CPU/Mobo side is way more stable, AMD simply doesn't have the output to have the same policies and nVidia and Intel, period; and that makes buying from them via vendors a much more iffy issue, therefore you buy the good shit and you don't rely on losing the lottery and getting a 50 or B that just by chance happens to be made out of adamantium and unicornium. What you do rely on is dealing with better parts until AMD has the right volume to take kind of chances you're talking about as normal, and you do that by dealing with the right vendor and the right class of part. By and large AMD mid range offerings are failure parts with taped/sectioned off silicon, and that goes for graphic and processing lines, period.

 

It's great you got a ford fiesta that can fly to the moon, meanwhile everyone else is buying an upper range toyota in record numbers because they work correctly every time the key is turned.

[RitualClarity]

I work in the field.. I have friends that work in it as well. Repair, sales and shit like that. You can get decent hardware without donating blood to do so. Period..  My message is only counter to your message in that those that need to ... because not everybody can spend $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ on hardware and be elitist... to be smart about what they buy and do their research.

 

There isn't anything "anecdotal" about this.  It is being an educated consumer and purchasing the best you can for the $$$ you have. Making the best possible decision. If you can't get an new upper range Toyota.. then use consumer reports and find decent lower range car with a record of being decent.  Economics. Not everybody can or wants to spend $$$ on hardware. 

 

I have a pair of 30 dollar headphones that have outlasted my friends 100dollar + headphones and sound great. I have a laptop from 2012.. mid range booring Dell laptop.. won't fucking die.. why.. because I did my research. Solid as a rock. cost fractions from what the "Advised" $$$ item cost.  Second laptop was a Chromebook that was on display for over a year. got it for a song.. changed the battery (opened it ) for a few bucks.. and now I have a sold laptop that last 8 + hours.. (by the way.. it did last 5 + hours or more of hard use,. like watching Netflix before being replaced)

 

Don't need to pay for the expensive shit.. just do your research and buy responsibly. You only need to do your way if you are lazy or don't know what you are doing. 

[KoolHndLuke]

45 minutes ago, RitualClarity said:

Don't need to pay for the expensive shit.. just do your research and buy responsibly. You only need to do your way if you are lazy or don't know what you are doing. 

I agree with you somewhat and I do happen to fall into latter category unfortunately, lol. But, I also believe what 27X is saying about spending the money for better quality- that's mostly been true for many products in my experience- not always though. I'm researching components almost on a daily basis anymore looking at bench marks, reviews, vids by linus and a few others, and customer recommendations.

 

BTW- you ever run into a new pc that is getting power to the motherboard but it won't turn on? Seems that fancy new mb I bought might not be good for more than a multicolored nightlight.  

 

Edit; Did I say something wrong?

[27X]

22 minutes ago, Alkpaz said:

There are caveats 27X, the last "top of the line" mobo I bought was a Gigabyte UD-9, it came DOA and I returned it and got a lesser costly board.  https://www.gigabyte.com/us/Motherboard/GA-X58A-UD9-rev-10#ov I purchased the UD-9 for 700 USD at the time and planned to pair it with a i7 980x (1100 USD processor). https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/47932/intel-core-i7-980x-processor-extreme-edition-12m-cache-3-33-ghz-6-40-gt-s-intel-qpi.html I currently have it pinned to my wall as a reminder never to buy another board of that price range again. (circa 2010) 

Yeah and the caveats in this instance are that for >AMD< that a giant chunk of B is cut X that didn't make cert, so maybe not conflate Intel issue with AMD issues; you were saying something about research?

 

Again I'm not even kind of concerned with anecdotal; my last Intel build had to go through three "premium" mobos before I got one that was 100%; because I dealt with a company that understands rendering pounds the fuck out of particular pipelines it was never an issue, EVGA crossshipped a replacement before I even stuck the fucky board back in the shipping box.

 

Meanwhile in AMD land, there's exactly one vendor that'll do this and they don't deal with consumers one to one.

45 minutes ago, RitualClarity said:

 

There isn't anything "anecdotal" about this.

Your entire thrust is literally anecdotal.

 

You're ignoring that this particular premise contains two parts; a nonsucky vendor and getting nonsucks parts.

 

[KoolHndLuke]

Ehh....never mind I guess. I'll just go stand in a corner outta the way and let you two hash things out. 

[KoolHndLuke]

5 minutes ago, Alkpaz said:

I was not fast enough.

I got you this time! 

[RitualClarity]

1 hour ago, KoolHndLuke said:

I agree with you somewhat and I do happen to fall into latter category unfortunately, lol. But, I also believe what 27X is saying about spending the money for better quality- that's mostly been true for many products in my experience- not always though. I'm researching components almost on a daily basis anymore looking at bench marks, reviews, vids by linus and a few others, and customer recommendations.

 

BTW- you ever run into a new pc that is getting power to the motherboard but it won't turn on? Seems that fancy new mb I bought might not be good for more than a multicolored nightlight.  

 

Edit; Did I say something wrong?

Yes... generally more money does have better quality.. but, there are good quality parts that don't cost an arm and a leg. That is my point. However, you do have to do some research and really do more investigation with those. Most aren't willing to do this. Take shortcuts and often get the bad end of the stick due to this.

 

All my hardware would turn on and work. Often times however, they had more bells and whisles and other crap added on to it that I didn't want or need. Another issue is many times they would have settings and such on as a default that made setting up hard if you weren't aware of it.. My last mobo was this way. It was a complete pain in the ass to setup properly. It also has one of the fancy bios updaters which has caused me more trouble than it saved.

 

Not aware of you saying anything wrong... At least not that I am aware of. Generally we agree on most things..

[RitualClarity]

1 hour ago, 27X said:

 

You're ignoring that this particular premise contains two parts; a nonsucky vendor and getting nonsucks parts.

 

You are ignoring the fact that you can get solid reliable parts for a reasonable price and don't have to give your leg and/or arm to do so.  I am not ignoring your "premise" I am not changing the subject. My statement from the beginning is the above.  You are the one that isn't reading my statements and injecting your own in its place. You can get good solid parts from places, vendors. You just have to be careful and know what you are doing.

 

Almost everybody I know in RL does this for a fucking living. One aspect or another in this field.  I have been doing this since the last fucking century.. lol.   I have to literally give my old shit away due to not needing it.. 2x in my entire life I had to replace a motherboard and only once a stick of memory.. prematurely. AND the motherboard was beyond its warranty! (3 years)

 

People like you are what makes vendors so fucking happy... drives people to think they need to spend fucking 400 dollars on a motherboard that they will likely use for only 5 damn years.  Spend 400 dollars on a processor because it has x cores or y feature. When gaming is the heaviest thing they will be doing.

 

Most of the damn problems people experience is due to their own stupidity. Their inability to properly install their hardware by not following proper anti-static procedures. that or not properly maintaining it by blowing out the crud from the fans.  I can't tell you how many computers that I have seen being dumped for recycling that all was needed was to clear out the fucking dust and cat fir.

 

But go ahead and spend $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ as those that I know in RL that are in electronic sales , work at a place that sells electronics will absolutely love you for doing so. Add to the companies bottom lines and the economy in general. Feel happy that you have the best of the best and boast away.. I will just get solid reasonable hardware and put that money elsewhere, where it is more important to me.

[RitualClarity]

1 hour ago, KoolHndLuke said:

Ehh....never mind I guess. I'll just go stand in a corner outta the way and let you two hash things out. 

Nothing to hash out...

If you are curious and need some hardware advice.. let me know in a message. I can do some checks and such and find some solid hardware choices with reasonable vendors that will do the job. Just tell me what you want to do etc.

[KoolHndLuke]

2 hours ago, RitualClarity said:

proper anti-static procedures

Is this really as big a deal as people make out?