wip Chaurus Life

[sshar22]

Couple of little notes and facts

According to lore and the various books in the games, Lycantropy in a "blessing" bestowed by Hircine alone to his favourite hunters, no other gods do it.

 

The other two transformations we know of are the vampiric one by molag Bal and the hagraven one done by arcane rituals and possibly related to Kyne the ancient form of Kynareth.

 

None of the TES schools of magic (Alteration, Conjuration, Destruction, Illusion, Mysticism, Restoration, Thaumaturgy) have physical transformation spells, some can change attributes or ability to breathe water but no change in shape or appearance. (it is probably related to game and engine mechanics that would result in too many quirks bugs and broken quests)

 

Cheers

[MadMansGun]

5 hours ago, sshar22 said:

None of the TES schools of magic (Alteration, Conjuration, Destruction, Illusion, Mysticism, Restoration, Thaumaturgy) have physical transformation spells, some can change attributes or ability to breathe water but no change in shape or appearance. (it is probably related to game and engine mechanics that would result in too many quirks bugs and broken quests)

https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Brelyna's_Practice

[Seijin8]

38 minutes ago, MadMansGun said:

https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Brelyna's_Practice

Good point.

[Reesewow]

And lest we forget - all the various outcomes of the Wabbajack.

[sshar22]

18 hours ago, MadMansGun said:

https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Brelyna's_Practice

 

3 hours ago, Reesewow said:

And lest we forget - all the various outcomes of the Wabbajack.

 

Ok point taken. ?

(now you see Sejin8 why I plaster disclaimers on my posts, on other less chill forums I would be probably crucified and burned at the stake for not being correct 100% ? ) 

 

And it would be cool if we could create and combine spells like we had in morrowind

But note that, none of those events are selectable as spells you can learn and cast and that was my point

 

Alteration

Conjuration

Destruction

Illusion

Mysticism

Restoration

Thaumaturgy

 

Imagine the player taking the shape/appearance of a major character (a Jarl or commander of the legion/stormcloaks) then integrate them as possible ways to do steps in quests and outcomes, and you can see how fast it can spiral out of control ...

?

I probably should have worded my previous post better, I apologise 

 

 

Cheers

[Seijin8]

11 minutes ago, sshar22 said:

Spoiler

 

Ok point taken. ?

(now you see Sejin8 why I plaster disclaimers on my posts, on other less chill forums I would be probably crucified and burned at the stake for not being correct 100% ? ) 

 

And it would be cool if we could create and combine spells like we had in morrowind

But note that, none of those events are selectable as spells you can learn and cast and that was my point

 

Alteration

Conjuration

Destruction

Illusion

Mysticism

Restoration

Thaumaturgy

 

Imagine the player taking the shape/appearance of a major character (a Jarl or commander of the legion/stormcloaks) then integrate them as possible ways to do steps in quests and outcomes, and you can see how fast it can spiral out of control ...

?

I probably should have worded my previous post better, I apologise

 

 

 

Its all good.  We are all learning stuff here, and the topic is greatly unexplored.

 

A recent "doh!" moment of my own was the realization that the "carnivore" discussion was misplaced.  Non-flying chaurus may be lithovores, but hunters are not.  Everywhere we see evidence of carnivorous activity by chaurus, we also see evidence of recent hunter activity.  I mean, its in the fucking name, right? "Hunter".  Duh.

 

So don't sweat it, we're teaching each other.

[Elvorana]

14 minutes ago, Seijin8 said:

 

Its all good.  We are all learning stuff here, and the topic is greatly unexplored.

 

A recent "doh!" moment of my own was the realization that the "carnivore" discussion was misplaced.  Non-flying chaurus may be lithovores, but hunters are not.  Everywhere we see evidence of carnivorous activity by chaurus, we also see evidence of recent hunter activity.  I mean, its in the fucking name, right? "Hunter".  Duh.

 

So don't sweat it, we're teaching each other.

The question there though is "Why?". What necessitates the hunters to be carnivores instead of lithovores like the rest of the species?

[sshar22]

7 minutes ago, Elvorana said:

The question there though is "Why?". What necessitates the hunters to be carnivores instead of lithovores like the rest of the species?

Exactly!

Why would an evolution mid-step completely change the way a creature nourishes itself?

Hunters, could they be hunting for breeding/birthing prey?

or Interlopers/ invaders of a hive, or helping the Falmer to catch meat for them?

 

Cheers

[Seijin8]

3 minutes ago, Elvorana said:

The question there though is "Why?". What necessitates the hunters to be carnivores instead of lithovores like the rest of the species?

Two answers for that, one is game-ish and the other is handwavium, take your pick

 

1) Because they no longer have the physical apparatus for digging, their forelimbs are no longer useful for carving into stone, and instead have the mantis-like design for capturing prey.  Likewise, they no longer have the mandibles that also assist with digging.

 

2) This possibly forces them afield to find prey, assisting with the removal of parasites (though this assumes a lot about the ecosystem in which they developed).

[Seijin8]

4 minutes ago, sshar22 said:

or Interlopers/ invaders of a hive, or helping the Falmer to catch meat for them?

I can't see them "evolving" to fulfill a need presented by a separate species, though that may be what the domesticated hunters are for.

[Seijin8]

Expounding on the above points:

 

The mantis-like structures of the hunter's forelimbs could definitely be for finding breeders and hauling them back to the hive.  They do look like effective capture devices.  It also makes sense if the hive's life-cycle becomes stagnant with only failed Reapers at the top.  The hunters then bring stock to restart the hive's process at the bottom-end.

 

This brings the idea that it may be normal for hives to go through expansion-contraction cycles, with the caste structure growing top-heavy, dissolving and then refilling at the bottom.  Maybe the structure is designed for seasonal variations?  It is expected that the only active chaurus during the "winter" would be the Tyrant and any betas/champions, and then with spring, the fledglings hatch and find new breeders, throughout the summer, nymphs and workers build the hive larger, and then in autumn, the challenges take place.

 

This actually seems a very natural design (at least to me).

[sshar22]

If you look at ants, you will see that there are (in some subspecies and hives) ants that have a enlarged abdomen that is full of a sugary liquid, and they stay in the hive, and are "milked" by ants passing by that are hungry.

This could solve the fact that hunters don't dig the food themselves?

 

Cheers 

[Seijin8]

7 minutes ago, sshar22 said:

If you look at ants, you will see that there are (in some subspecies and hives) ants that have a enlarged abdomen that is full of a sugary liquid, and they stay in the hive, and are "milked" by ants passing by that are hungry.

This could solve the fact that hunters don't dig the food themselves?

 

Cheers 

That's a fair observation.  Given that the only part of the old chaurus body that persists into a flyer stage is their ass, it doesn't seem that odd to me that their diet would also change.  In addition to carrying harmful parasites, they may also be a breeding ground for beneficial symbiotic organisms that subsist on animal proteins and such.  I could see it going multiple ways, though I will ponder the "storage" form a bit more.

[lanastara]

Hi,

 

just one little note could you please start adding version numbers to the download filenames that makes it easier to check if the downloaded version is the latest one. (also it stops the browser from asking if you want to overwrite the download every time)

 

Thanks

[Seijin8]

35 minutes ago, lanastara said:

Hi,

 

just one little note could you please start adding version numbers to the download filenames that makes it easier to check if the downloaded version is the latest one. (also it stops the browser from asking if you want to overwrite the download every time)

 

Thanks

Good suggestion.  Will do.

[HeavenlyWillow]

To weigh in a bit on the topic of transforming into a chaurus. I would like to take a page from the book of Sexout Breeder, with that mod there are two questlines which allow transformation into another creature. In both scenario's the player retains much of the human form, instead she goes through a gradual soft form of transformation as the human DNA is integrated with that of the other species (in this case the Giant Ant & the Deathclaw). The Giant Ants allow this through consuming an item which is produced on a regular basis by the hive, repeatedly consuming this item causes gradual transformation. The Deathclaws simply achieve this by having sex with them on a regular basis, once again the more you do this, the more you transform.

 

What I mean with a 'soft' form of transformation is that the player mostly keeps her human features, instead the player gains claws and horns (plus some buffs to unarmed melee to reflect having claws) by having sex with Deathclaws. The ants offer transformations like antennae and a big abdomen which can be used to produce certain items over time. 

 

When it comes to applying this in a lore friendly-ish manner, there is a lot of room to play with. I would suggest taking the approach the Giant Ants offer, considering both species are a form of hive and seem to be able to produce chemicals of some form (thinking of Chaurus spitting attack here). It is therefore not too far-fetched that they might be able to produce a form of transformative which allows the absorbtion of Chaurus DNA through the intestines/stomach. Even in a fantasy world, science can still be used if you don't make it too convoluted and advanced for the era we are playing in. Simply stating something along the lines of "After you consume the Chaurus Nectar you feel it quickly disolve in your stomach, somehow making you feel a bit more closer to your Chaurus kin." is a perfectly fine, yet simple, explanation for a player to know what is going on. Over time the player can grow a bit of chitin here and there to reflect the changes, and perhaps you can throw a buff or spell on here and there to further change the way you play in a lore friendly manner. Furthermore, this kind of transformation is also much easier to implement compared to creating a custom Chaurus race.

 

I hope this might help you a bit to find a doable and somewhat lore friendly path forward. Keep up the good work, I'm following this project with a lot of interest.

[Reesewow]

17 minutes ago, HeavenlyWillow said:

What I mean with a 'soft' form of transformation is that the player mostly keeps her human features, instead the player gains claws and horns (plus some buffs to unarmed melee to reflect having claws) by having sex with Deathclaws. The ants offer transformations like antennae and a big abdomen which can be used to produce certain items over time. 

Less from a lore perspective and more from a gameplay/implementation perspective - I think a transformation like this would be *much* easier to develop than a true skeleton-swapping werewolf style transformation.  These are actually done a lot in mods with stuff like Being a Cow, succubus transformation mods and the humanoid spriggan armor in Sanguine's Debauchery to great effect. 

 

I do personally think strategically placed chaurus plates and spines, texture overlays and clawed hands/feet could look really good (there are some armor mods out there that approach this already).  Also likely more sexy than transforming into an actual bug, but I'm not judging. 

 

Random example that could work as a base:  Chaurus Queen armor.

 

 

Mods that try to reuse the werewolf/vampire transformation mechanics for something original seem to be much rarer - while I've probably encountered it somewhere, I can't honestly name a mod that does player transformations that way.  Doesn't mean it isn't doable, but it may mean it is much more challenging/buggy or liable to conflict with other mods.

4 hours ago, Seijin8 said:

Two answers for that, one is game-ish and the other is handwavium, take your pick

 

1) Because they no longer have the physical apparatus for digging, their forelimbs are no longer useful for carving into stone, and instead have the mantis-like design for capturing prey.  Likewise, they no longer have the mandibles that also assist with digging.

 

2) This possibly forces them afield to find prey, assisting with the removal of parasites (though this assumes a lot about the ecosystem in which they developed).

I think the carnivore aspect of them actually also fits in very well with their role as cleaners, as they could also patrol the caverns in search of pests (bats/skeevers, the occasional troll) and both kill them and recycle the corpse. 

 

These mammals could also be infected with parasites (I mean, the human player certainly can be in the parasites mod), and consuming them would trap the parasite in the hunter before they could develop further.

[Seijin8]

50 minutes ago, HeavenlyWillow said:

this kind of transformation is also much easier to implement compared to creating a custom Chaurus race

Thanks for the interest in the mod.  I look forward to hearing more such thoughts as things progress.

 

Actually, making a custom chaurus race is very simple.  Making it interact with things correctly is the tough part (and may not be possible).

 

My thoughts on transformation are manifold: there are many ways to do it and I don't see a lot of value in selecting one over another when I can simply do all of them.

 

If each "step" of transformation includes some visual change and a set of traits changing that affect gameplay, then the player can simply choose which path they want to go down.  My thoughts on this right now (subject to change because we are still a ways off from implementation on this):

 

1. Slimegirl transformation, where the PC gradually becomes a translucent teal color.  The stats changes associated with this would involve disease resistance, poison resistance, improved swimming/waterbreathing, but a much increased temperature sensitivity (both in terms of spell/effects and Frostfall.)   This form is optimized for breeding, and allows multiple impregnations at once without all the strain that would normally put on the PC.  This form is no longer as effected by parasites, and has greatly reduced debuffs from all forms of chaurus sex interaction and breeding.
2. Insect "transition", where the PC gains chitin parts (as has been mentioned, simplest route is parts of chitin bikini armors, though I think those are the exact inverse of the parts that should be covered/exposed).  This would include increased combat abilities, possibly flight (via Real Flying/Edda variant), and direct interaction with the hive as a functional part of its hierarchy -- no longer just a breeder.  In fact, breeding elements would still be present, but would directly counter many of the buffs this form offered (advanced pregnancy means no flight, less armor, painful cracks in the chitin, etc).  Think Kerrigan or Sil from Species.
3. Insect "transformation", where the humanoid form is lost and a "chaurus form" is used instead.  This would allow a wide array of new abilities, but also prevent many others.  I'm unsure where this would go right now because I would need to experiment with what it could conceivably do and what the game engine will allow.

 

In all cases (except maybe #3), there would be a balance of how adjustable the appearance was.  The maximum level of #2 wouldn't just be a chick with antennae and wings.  In a previous use of PSQ I experimented heavily with the (entirely subjective) transition of beautiful human -> exotic human -> exotic not-quite-human -> exotic and monstrous not-quite-human, but still maybe beautiful -> exotic monster, echoing beautiful traits but not in a way that the human mind instinctively perceives as beautiful -> exotic and monstrous, where the human traits echoed only reinforce the uncanny valley sense of what you're looking at -> monster, flatly over the line.

 

Of course, this is a subjective scale.  Would the player want to fully become a monster, losing all sense of the prior self?  Is there a desire to be able to still interact with people and cities and towns?  Does the player find none of these really appealing, but wants to dabble in it anyway?

 

I wouldn't want to force my vision of this subjective experience onto anyone, but I also don't think "full transformation" should be hidden with a hat or a simple spell.  Full transformation to any form means fully embracing the hive.  Period.  Interactions with NPCs now involve running, threats and combat.  Period.  If the player doesn't want that, then they'll have to accept something less than complete transformation.

 

To be clear on this: choices without consequence aren't meaningful.  If nothing is lost in trade, it isn't a choice, just a stat progression.

 

On the other hand, I don't want someone to feel like the only way to engage the game again is to revert to an older save.  No transformation is "permanent" (the very notion of being able to shape-shift invalidates any permanency of form).  There will be ways to work around even a full transformation, at least in part.  If nothing else, visiting the khajiit caravans at night or while they are in transit should always be possible.  Certain locations and the people there may be persuaded to accept you.  The College of Winterhold should be willing to engage with you regardless.  Same with the Dark Brotherhood.  Other could have an argument made, though it'd be more difficult.

 

So yeah, all in flux, nothing decided, but however I do it, there will be visual and functional variation and a lot of it will be selectable by the player, so their version of "fully transformed" may be a good deal less monstrous than someone else's version of the exact same thing.

[MadMansGun]

8 hours ago, sshar22 said:

Imagine the player taking the shape/appearance of a major character (a Jarl or commander of the legion/stormcloaks) then integrate them as possible ways to do steps in quests and outcomes, and you can see how fast it can spiral out of control

it's been done before:

https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Jagar_Tharn

 

8 hours ago, Seijin8 said:

A recent "doh!" moment of my own was the realization that the "carnivore" discussion was misplaced

https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Frostflow_Abyss_(Quest)

the extra large chaurus reaper at the end ate Habd, also there are some hints in other areas of skyrim that the Falmer feed people to them.

[Seijin8]

1 hour ago, MadMansGun said:

it's been done before:

https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Jagar_Tharn

 

https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Frostflow_Abyss_(Quest)

the extra large chaurus reaper at the end ate Habd, also there are some hints in other areas of skyrim that the Falmer feed people to them.

True enough.  The predator-prey ratio has always been unrealistic in Skyrim, but even taking that into account, there just isn't enough food available in the area nearby Frostflow to keep a hive alive if they are carnivorous as a rule.  Hell, I'd even make an argument that its as likely the reaper ate whatever ate Habd (not that I think its a convincing argument).

 

The whole underground ecosystem of Skyrim feels so ridiculously tacked-on and compartmentalized that I'm as inclined to ignore a fair chunk of it.  Very reminiscent of early era D&D.  Like, WTF do all these things actually eat?  Fact is they're all just window-dressing on inadequately conceived dungeons.  Not an issue with the draugr or dwemer, and most falmer areas have mushroom gardens that presumably explain their diets.  But to be feeding humans to the carnivorous insects would depopulate Skyrim in a matter of weeks.

 

The scale has always been way wrong, and the more I look at it, the more it irritates me.

[Reesewow]

Had a chance to briefly test out the new update, thanks for that.

 

Few issues/comments on the MCM menu:

• Bug: when swapping from threshold -> always for the visual FX and then leaving the menu, that option was getting locked and unable to be changed.  However manually changing the global variable back to 1 did allow for the option to be changed again in the MCM menu.
• Wasn't able to swap the breast node options from default - however I assume that part may not be implemented yet.
• Cheat mode section IMO is a good idea for those just testing things out.  Clicking on the options myself did not seem to have an effect on chaurus/falmer aggro and the buttons stayed empty on reloading the menu, so I'm not sure if they actually added my PC to the noted factions.  Can check this if someone reminds me what the console code is to check a faction rank on the player.

 

On the FX:

 

I was able to see the overfull notifications printing and calculating fullness (or simply saying "overfull detected" when the option was set to always). 

 

However, even when "overfull" I wasn't able to see any effects showing up in any regular non-chaurus animations.  I did try a bunch of different varieties of partner race/scene type/victim status/arousal levels, but had no results.  The specific tag-based effects still worked fine however, on the animations that contain them.

 

I did glance at the chaurusvictimquestscript.psc just to see if there was something I was doing that would blatantly conflict, but didn't spot anything.  I'm not using any mods like SLSO ect that might play with orgasm stages/tags, so that shouldn't be an issue.

 

Let me know if there's any specific testing that might be useful.

 

Edit - slight new wrinkle as I was doing a long-ass draugr crypt and my character was *not* having a great time with it (catching Draugr pheromones early from the Sexlab Pheromones mod saw to that) and not noticing any squirt effects.  Randomly I used "End" to force-end a F/M/Draugr animation combination I accidentally triggered (that animation combo doesn't currently exist) and suddenly my character had squirting spell effects. 

 

They did not clear by starting a new animation or other means other than using the console, altho I did not try to spawn/trigger a chaurus animation.  So the mod is definitely trying to trigger the effects, just something is a bit off currently.  I wasn't able to re-create the conditions after reloading unfortunately.

[MadMansGun]

4 hours ago, Seijin8 said:

The whole underground ecosystem of Skyrim feels so ridiculously tacked-on and compartmentalized that I'm as inclined to ignore a fair chunk of it.  Very reminiscent of early era D&D.  Like, WTF do all these things actually eat?  Fact is they're all just window-dressing on inadequately conceived dungeons.  Not an issue with the draugr or dwemer, and most falmer areas have mushroom gardens that presumably explain their diets.  But to be feeding humans to the carnivorous insects would depopulate Skyrim in a matter of weeks.

i would assume they feed them other things as well, also they may have snake like levels of metabolism (eg: they can go a year without food)

 

edit: also there idle animations have them randomly eating something off of the ground.

[Reesewow]

2 hours ago, MadMansGun said:

i would assume they feed them other things as well, also they may have snake like levels of metabolism (eg: they can go a year without food)

 

edit: also there idle animations have them randomly eating something off of the ground.

I personally really like the current idea that the non-hunter variants are lithovores - meaning that animation is quite literally them eating dirt/rocks.

[Seijin8]

10 hours ago, Reesewow said:

Had a chance to briefly test out the new update, thanks for that.

 

Few issues/comments on the MCM menu:

Will look into everything you mentioned.

 

Regarding the effects not turning off... I really don't know how that would happen since the update loop is explicitly looking for the character to exit the Sexlab animations, and then runs a cleanup pass.

 

It sounds like parts of the script just aren't running.

 

EDIT: Added a couple of "safeties" into the update script to turn off things that should already be off...

 

EDIT2: Changed the integer tracking for some of the MCM toggles.  Try these scripts out when you get a chance and see if these fix the problems.

 

ChaurusLifeMCMQuestScript.pex ChaurusVictimQuestScript.pex

[kilroywasalwayshere]

   I also tested the newest patch. I started at Frostflow, where most of the Chaurus quite quickly molted into Reapers, despite being on the default setting.  I then moved to Lost Echo Cave just to load the cell, ran through it, and left for Gloomreach.  This was to test if cells were updating on their own.  While in Gloomreach, I attempted to grow a Tyrant.  Along the way I was able to morph a Nymph into a Worker, and a Reaper into a Hunter Fledgling, as well as a Hunter Fledgling into a Hunter.  After a few hours and of putting everything on the fastest settings, I was finally able to grow a rank 4 Reaper, a journey which saw the Reaper become progressively glowy-er until he gained an aura at rank 4.  At rank 5 he lost his aura, but quickly molted into a Tyrant.   After this, I went back to Lost Echo Caves and unfortunately the cell did not persist, most likely because so much in game time had passed that the cell reset, it had been over an in game month after all.  Going back to Frostflow the cell also reset, but most of the Reaper's I didn't kill in the lower areas were still present and unchanged.  I was also using Frenzy to cause the Chaurus to kill each other off and found that they were not immune to their own poison, and during Reaper duels the Reaper that struck first usually won due to their paralysis poison.  

 

  

 

     I also encountered a bug in Frostflow where I believe dead Reapers were dueling each other, as evident by one of them gaining levels and no duels occurring on the lower levels where I "corralled" the rest of the Chaurus for testing purposes. 

 

 

 

   However, while dueling Chaurus in Gloomreach I noticed some of the Reapers weren't gaining levels, and I had to spawn additional Reapers because the duels would stop despite all conditions being met, new Reapers would lose their duels but somehow rank up to rank 3 after one duel with the rank 4 Reaper.  

 

    For now, that's all I have.  I have thought on some of the new stuff brought up but nothing really exciting, except Napalm Chaurus... that was a fun thought.