wip Chaurus Life

[skyrimdragon]

9 hours ago, Seijin8 said:

I'm feeling like we're on different wavelengths here.

 

My avoidance of the guild quest theme is because it is a tired and frankly lazy trope in game design, and I have no interest in doing it, even if it didn't require hundreds of hours of work to enact.

 

You keep mentioning a queen.  What queen?

 

There will be no shortage of quests related to this mod (as it develops), but these will not follow a pattern of guild quest lines.  Most players will be unaware these quests have even started.  There will be no quest markers, journal entries or hand-holding; the quests and their results will come from (and be shaped around) emergent gameplay.  The hive's needs are not explicit, and there won't be a note dropped into the inventory to tell you about what they need.  Every hive is different, and on every game start random variables will be assigned to make each "run" potentially unique.  One of my goals for this is to never have the mod be a matter of ticking off a checklist or following previously established patterns.

 

In many ways, the quest structures will be rogue-like.  Semi-random entry requirements, semi-random progression.  Aside from some checks to make sure that no option is arbitrarily sealed off at game start, the rest will be as random (and partially hidden) as I can make it.

You have my apologies then. In a insect hive, usually there is a queen that most of the other bugs in the hive listen to, so that's why I kept mentioning such as I believed that chaurus, being insects, would follow this same kind of logic.

 

Now knowing your intended approach, I can understand what you're going for and I apologise for disrupting off of that. I want to see how this develops so I will be keeping my eyes on it for future developments to see how it all works out. ^_^

[Elvorana]

3 hours ago, skyrimdragon said:

You have my apologies then. In a insect hive, usually there is a queen that most of the other bugs in the hive listen to, so that's why I kept mentioning such as I believed that chaurus, being insects, would follow this same kind of logic.

 

Now knowing your intended approach, I can understand what you're going for and I apologise for disrupting off of that. I want to see how this develops so I will be keeping my eyes on it for future developments to see how it all works out. ^_^

I would recommend reading up on @Seijin8's blog where he discusses the Chaurus life cycle and biology. Thats mostly what this mod is being based off of and its a really interesting read. Heres a link:

 

[Seijin8]

Spoiler

 

Aw shucks.

[Seijin8]

6 hours ago, skyrimdragon said:

I believed that chaurus, being insects, would follow this same kind of logic.

Its all good, but a small (important?) note: chaurus aren't insects.

 

Insects by definition are hexapods.  All known (canon) chaurus morphologies are quadrupeds.  I've been toying with making some hexapodal variants, but so far they all look pretty janky.

[MadMansGun]

2 hours ago, Seijin8 said:

Its all good, but a small (important?) note: chaurus aren't insects.

 

Insects by definition are hexapods.  All known (canon) chaurus morphologies are quadrupeds.  I've been toying with making some hexapodal variants, but so far they all look pretty janky.

technically the chaurus is more like a centipede turned quadruped, there are 10 sub-leg like things on it's neck.

[Seijin8]

7 minutes ago, MadMansGun said:

technically the chaurus is more like a centipede turned quadruped, there are 10 sub-leg like things on it's neck.

True, but I always figured those were for carrying things (like eggs).  They aren't articulated, so there isn't much else to do with them.  They could also be sensors of a type used for detecting vibration while laying on the ground or burrowing.

[MadMansGun]

16 minutes ago, Seijin8 said:

They could also be sensors of a type

*antennas

[delicately]

On 7/11/2019 at 5:10 AM, Seijin8 said:

Something like this is planned, but room/cave creation is my weakest ability in modding, so it may be a long while.

Are you looking for someone to create/help create caves towards this? I've recently gotten really into it and got reminded of this reply.

[Elvorana]

Had a random thought while re-reading some of the posts here. What about allowing the Chaurus to carry the player when certain conditions are enabled? I know the Chainbeasts mod did something like this already so it's not totally impossible, and it could cut out a lot of fade to black stuff that might otherwise happen within the hive.

[Seijin8]

5 hours ago, izynxi said:

Are you looking for someone to create/help create caves towards this? I've recently gotten really into it and got reminded of this reply.

I will never turn down help.  If you want to throw together a sample chaurus hive (doesn't need to be big; think of it as a resume) and kick it my way, I'd love to have a look.
 

2 hours ago, Elvorana said:

Had a random thought while re-reading some of the posts here. What about allowing the Chaurus to carry the player when certain conditions are enabled? I know the Chainbeasts mod did something like this already so it's not totally impossible, and it could cut out a lot of fade to black stuff that might otherwise happen within the hive.

Been thinking of this in a couple fashions.  To start: do chaurus have the ability to produce webs?  Lost Echo Cave seems to indicate they do.  The pincers on their ass are rarely used for anything, could they be part of a web-production system?  If so, carrying a victim in the pincers should be fairly easy to manage with Zaz assets for a webbed-up body.  Alternately, there is a way to make chaurus "mountable" like horses, but doing so brings some technical issues (some mods will see them as horses and immersion-breaking hijinks will ensue).

At minimum, ridable Tyrants can be a thing, I think.  For the less willing, some method of carrying will be implemented.  I'd considered making some body changes for betas, including a more "hive maintenance" set of body changes, such as web-making and a more bloated, almost tick-like form that could be used in a variety of ways.

At the moment, I'm rewriting the victim script, and that will take another couple days to get nailed down and reasonably optimized.  After that, I have to re-integrate the new reaper scripts into everything else and test it... will be a bit before that is done.

[delicately]

4 hours ago, Seijin8 said:

I will never turn down help.  If you want to throw together a sample chaurus hive (doesn't need to be big; think of it as a resume) and kick it my way, I'd love to have a look.

Alrighty cool I'll be sure to do that then, I was already half way through one so don't expect too long of a wait. Though I am currently creating some on SSE so if that's a problem for this cave in particular just to have a look at it you'd need to wait for me to convert it over to Oldrim, which I have 0 experience with nor any idea how the process even goes. Creating on SSE is very temporary and something I was doing to learn faster/easier.

[Seijin8]

8 minutes ago, izynxi said:

Alrighty cool I'll be sure to do that then, I was already half way through one so don't expect too long of a wait. Though I am currently creating some on SSE so if that's a problem for this cave in particular just to have a look at it you'd need to wait for me to convert it over to Oldrim, which I have 0 experience with nor any idea how the process even goes. Creating on SSE is very temporary and something I was doing to learn faster/easier.

I don't have SSE installed, but I can do so just for checking out your level.  I do not plan on porting to SSE any time soon and don't know what level adjustments would need to be made (if any).  I have successfully backported a few location mods from SSE and generally there aren't many issues (aside from custom meshes or textures saved in BC7 or something like that).

 

All that being said, if you are willing to make stuff I can use in this mod, do it in whatever way is best for you and your workflow and I will figure out how to get it working on my end.

 

Looking forward to seeing what you cook up!

[delicately]

9 minutes ago, Seijin8 said:

I don't have SSE installed, but I can do so just for checking out your level.  I do not plan on porting to SSE any time soon and don't know what level adjustments would need to be made (if any).  I have successfully backported a few location mods from SSE and generally there aren't many issues (aside from custom meshes or textures saved in BC7 or something like that).

 

All that being said, if you are willing to make stuff I can use in this mod, do it in whatever way is best for you and your workflow and I will figure out how to get it working on my end.

 

Looking forward to seeing what you cook up!

I'll have a little look at the process of backporting first and give it a shot, and if things don't go well I'll let you know you'd need to install SSE.

 

I'm perfectly willing and actually happy to make stuff you can use, not just a single cave but back on track with my original reply: "multiple caves spread around Skyrim containing Chaurus and possible Falmer integration." I would probably do that via a separate mod so it's useful not only to people wanting some more Chaurus hives but just for anyone wanting some more simple Chaurus/Falmer caves that're easy to reach spread around Skyrim. I can easily make them compatible with needs mods and Underground Survival such as making sure every cave has a pool of water, possibly a tiny little section perfect for Campfire integration, etc.

 

I'm assuming UGS works by making more things harvest-able in caves? Meaning all I would need to do on my end is just add the correct vanilla assets in caves?

[Seijin8]

40 minutes ago, izynxi said:

I'll have a little look at the process of backporting first and give it a shot, and if things don't go well I'll let you know you'd need to install SSE.

Sounds great.

40 minutes ago, izynxi said:

I'm perfectly willing and actually happy to make stuff you can use, not just a single cave but back on track with my original reply: "multiple caves spread around Skyrim containing Chaurus and possible Falmer integration." I would probably do that via a separate mod so it's useful not only to people wanting some more Chaurus hives but just for anyone wanting some more simple Chaurus/Falmer caves that're easy to reach spread around Skyrim.

Completely reasonable.

40 minutes ago, izynxi said:

I can easily make them compatible with needs mods and Underground Survival such as making sure every cave has a pool of water, possibly a tiny little section perfect for Campfire integration, etc.

 

I'm assuming UGS works by making more things harvest-able in caves? Meaning all I would need to do on my end is just add the correct vanilla assets in caves?

UGS mainly works by modifying levelled lists based on local environment.  It runs a scan every x seconds to see what is nearby (within 2048 units) and adjusts a set of globals based on this.  These globals then modify the results of levelled lists for various objects (some shrubs, a few otherwise non-interactive flora, etc).

 

UGS is pretty early in its development, so don't try to work around it - it may change many times, and is being made to adapt to other mods' environments, not the other way around.  You can safely ignore it.

[delicately]

1 hour ago, Seijin8 said:

Sounds great.

 

UGS is pretty early in its development, so don't try to work around it - it may change many times, and is being made to adapt to other mods' environments, not the other way around.  You can safely ignore it.

You will need to install SSE, I've failed for now.

 

What I more meant by my UGS question is will I need to add any/more than usual of the shrubs and other flora that UGS touches on?

 

Also, I'm not too familiar with how things are done here or how things work but is it fine if we take this to a message? So as not to spam Chaurus Life's replies with this.

[Seijin8]

11 minutes ago, izynxi said:

What I more meant by my UGS question is will I need to add any/more than usual of the shrubs and other flora that UGS touches on?

 

Also, I'm not too familiar with how things are done here or how things work but is it fine if we take this to a message? So as not to spam Chaurus Life's replies with this.

Just build it as you will.  If it needs something, I can either make UGS responsive to what you add or I will request it separately.  Safe to say, if it looks roughly like every other Falmer & Chaurus cave, in terms of flora, water and glowing ceilings, then it should work fine.

 

PM sent.

 

EDIT: Oh and for the record, I am fine with useful ideas being thrown in public, as there are a few excellent commenters here who may see/add something useful for both of us.  Otherwise, PMs are cool too, whatever works for you.

[Elvorana]

7 hours ago, Seijin8 said:

Been thinking of this in a couple fashions.  To start: do chaurus have the ability to produce webs?  Lost Echo Cave seems to indicate they do.  The pincers on their ass are rarely used for anything, could they be part of a web-production system?  If so, carrying a victim in the pincers should be fairly easy to manage with Zaz assets for a webbed-up body.  Alternately, there is a way to make chaurus "mountable" like horses, but doing so brings some technical issues (some mods will see them as horses and immersion-breaking hijinks will ensue).

At minimum, ridable Tyrants can be a thing, I think.  For the less willing, some method of carrying will be implemented.  I'd considered making some body changes for betas, including a more "hive maintenance" set of body changes, such as web-making and a more bloated, almost tick-like form that could be used in a variety of ways.

Yeah I figured the mountable option might have some issues. Maybe theres a way to set up a bit of code that detects the installation of the mods that might have such an issue and forces them to not consider the chaurus as a horse? I've seen a few mods do that but it might be more work than its worth when stuff like the ZaZ stuff is available.

I do really like the idea of a "tick" style chaurus, just in concept. It would be really cool (and creepy) to see it skittering about the hives and caverns. I'm not sure how far we can push it's utility, but it would certainly be a good option for carrying the player (or captured NPC's) around as a captive. This could actually be used during the raids on bandit camps and small towns, where the "Tick" will seek out a defeated enemy and swallow them up to take back to the hive. It could also function as an egg carrier when moving the hive so that the eggs aren't just left behind or damaged during the journey.

[Seijin8]

18 minutes ago, Elvorana said:

I'm not sure how far we can push it's utility

In addition to everything you mentioned, one thought I had is related to some code I'm writing now for determining a breeder's mental state and overall health/fitness.

 

I was considering that if she's completely wrecked (say, so bloated with eggs she's basically unable to move, can pretty much only sleep in her own filth, and has no food available, with a needs mod slowly killing her), a beta might come along and "feed" her (thinking Billyy Breeding anim stage 5 kind of thing), which might then kickstart the birth, and then she'd be in that animation throughout the birth cycle of EC+.

 

Alternately, it could just feed her normally, maybe act as a resource for other things.  I figured the betas could inherit all the missing maternal instincts of the hive, and serve to direct the nymphs and such, basically losing all combat abilities in the process, but becoming a passive force multiplier instead.  This might also include extending the "lifespan" of hunters/slowing the parasitic meltdown.

 

(I'm thinking that each additional "type" of chaurus in a hive might unlock an additional "role" that in turn generates new behaviors.  Right now, betas can't happen without tyrants, so a hive without a tyrant wouldn't have this resource.  Once the beta is present, a more stable and healthy hive is established, opening the door to additional reaper roles, so on and so forth.)

[Elvorana]

17 minutes ago, Seijin8 said:

In addition to everything you mentioned, one thought I had is related to some code I'm writing now for determining a breeder's mental state and overall health/fitness.

 

I was considering that if she's completely wrecked (say, so bloated with eggs she's basically unable to move, can pretty much only sleep in her own filth, and has no food available, with a needs mod slowly killing her), a beta might come along and "feed" her (thinking Billyy Breeding anim stage 5 kind of thing), which might then kickstart the birth, and then she'd be in that animation throughout the birth cycle of EC+.

 

Alternately, it could just feed her normally, maybe act as a resource for other things.  I figured the betas could inherit all the missing maternal instincts of the hive, and serve to direct the nymphs and such, basically losing all combat abilities in the process, but becoming a passive force multiplier instead.  This might also include extending the "lifespan" of hunters/slowing the parasitic meltdown.

 

(I'm thinking that each additional "type" of chaurus in a hive might unlock an additional "role" that in turn generates new behaviors.  Right now, betas can't happen without tyrants, so a hive without a tyrant wouldn't have this resource.  Once the beta is present, a more stable and healthy hive is established, opening the door to additional reaper roles, so on and so forth.)

I forgot the survival aspect (I don't usually play with survival mods, though your Underground Survival inspired me to try it out a bit). It might be better to have two variants of this Tick type then. One that is a beta variant, acting as a maternal unit that nurtures the hive and those inside of it; and the other is a more combative unit, geared specifically to harvesting or capturing useful resources. Either way it would probably only show up in hives that are doing fairly well already, offering the chaurus the luxury to generate these more specialized units without it impacting their ability to survive as a hive.

[Seijin8]

3 minutes ago, Elvorana said:

It might be better to have two variants of this Tick type then

Quite honestly, I thought of them as a food truck.  The vehicle is multipurpose, no reason it can't store other things, but it all revolves around food and resource management.  I also figured in an attack, they would just blast out a thick fog and burrow into a wall or floor, staying safe until later.

 

Of course, I won't rule out armored combat variants, just wasn't on the forefront of my mind.  I have other ideas for evolved combat units

[ChaoSoul]

Hi Seijin, this is gonna be my first post here, though I've been lurking around the thread a lot. I hope it doesn't end up being a brain-fart! ?

 

The Tick idea and the fact that you're talking about making new variants of Chaurus is very interesting to me because I'm wondering what kind of variants would you have in mind. By this I mean how far removed from the vanilla chaurus would you want them to be, because it sounds like a lot of work with models and animations, on top of behaviors.

 

So maybe this is more of a question from someone who wonders how much are you actually planning for this incredibly sounding mod. While a tick-like model could be just a chaurus with a swollen abdomen (which most certainly already needs some work with the textures so that they don't end up stretched) trying to come up with multiple variants would quickly cause running out of possibilities with the vanilla frame of a chaurus. That came to my mind as I started to think "what could he have in mind? what could be coming?" and the first idea that came to me was a scorpion-tailed paralysis unit... and then realization struck me that this would require an extensive change to Chaurus mesh, skeleton, texture and animation.
And that made me wonder. How far are you planning to go with the variants? 
This is just curiosity because I have to admit that reading through this thread makes me really hyped for an amazing mod which could change a whole playthrough! ?

 

And on a side-note, when it comes to when would a Tick be created in a hive... Maybe the breeder wouldn't ever be getting bloated so much she becomes unable to move until there is a Tyrant? And only after the Tyrant keeps using her there is that threat. So at this point it would be important for the hive to have a "feeding truck/body carrier" unit. Maybe then the behavioral patterns would change slightly in order to ensure that a Tick is quickly created in whatever way would you deem proper for the creation of this variant. This could be explained as other Reapers trying to usurp the Tyrant as quickly as possible until he gets to strong (increase in amount of challenges while the Tyrant is "young") and the Tyrant could then choose bodyguards out of the stronger ones, and a Tick or two from the weaker ones. 

[Seijin8]

2 minutes ago, TheSpirit said:

I hope it doesn't end up being a brain-fart! ?

You passed the brown M&M test.  I have high hopes for you already

3 minutes ago, TheSpirit said:

By this I mean how far removed from the vanilla chaurus would you want them to be, because it sounds like a lot of work with models and animations, on top of behaviors.

Mesh edits are fairly straightforward so long as they aren't messing with skeletal nodes or limbs too much.  I would generally stick with the basic reaper form for most edits, and if they are intended to be sexually active, they would have minimal skeletal variance.

Most body changes would effectively be "armor" that the bugs wear that is lumpy or decorated or whatever.  The Tyrants can already sport some basic versions of this.  The tick body would likely be effectively a "backpack" (still working out how to do it).

 

Stretched textures is an issue if no UV editing is being done, but I think there are a few ways to deal with that.  One I'd considered is making a slightly "over the top" mesh above anything that seemed stretched and make it 50% translucent and covered with additive details.  You're right though that these things can look very wrong if done poorly.

7 minutes ago, TheSpirit said:

a scorpion-tailed paralysis unit... and then realization struck me that this would require an extensive change to Chaurus mesh, skeleton, texture and animation.

Can be done without too much trouble.  It won't *look* right during attack though, and that's the real issue as far as I'm concerned.  There is already a chaurus-skeleton scorpion mod out there somewhere and the tail is very present, but doesn't actually work for attacking.

8 minutes ago, TheSpirit said:

How far are you planning to go with the variants?

I don't want to over-promise and under-deliver.  I have three that I am looking to right now (which includes the tick-like form) and I'm fairly certain they can be done to a good quality.

10 minutes ago, TheSpirit said:

Maybe the breeder wouldn't ever be getting bloated so much she becomes unable to move until there is a Tyrant?

Depends on a number of factors, most importantly player choice.  There will be a toggle for if/how likely a sex act will be to start if the victim is already "with eggs", and to what degree immobility can happen.  For sure I want to have a degree of bloat trigger the inability to walk and default to crawling animations or a zombie-like slow stagger if she can stand at all.  (Haven't set that up yet, but it is in the short-term to-do list).  For some people, they wouldn't want anything to bloat them that much, others may be into that.  I will leave it up to the settings they choose, but will have both options available.

 

The story being told could be a triumph over the hive to a position of prominence, or could be a horror story.  Or one leading to the other.  Or none of the above.  I plan to have many pages in the MCM related only to setting the mod up to taste.

 

In the most extreme scenario, only Reapers/Tyrants could actually impregnate with fertile eggs, and once done the breeder would be relentlessly giving off pheremones generating multiple gangbang animations with workers until she is ready to "pop".  I'm not into that on most days, but I won't judge, and it is fairly simple to code.

 

17 minutes ago, TheSpirit said:

Maybe then the behavioral patterns would change slightly in order to ensure that a Tick is quickly created in whatever way would you deem proper for the creation of this variant.

More likely I would make it so that the Tyrant wouldn't go that far unless a beta (tick) was already available.

 

As far as the degree of competitiveness/challenge, that is something I will have to fine tune over time.  The intent right now is that a "semi matured" hive will have a Tyrant, one or two betas, a champion, a few hunters (total number roughly half the total number of workers/nymphs), a stable number of reapers who mostly compete with one another (molting to hunter wouldn't happen if there were too few reapers) and form raiding parties if they get too badly beaten (a way or regaining status without challenging others), and maybe a dozen chaurus workers and nymphs.

 

Depending on player desires, that hive might require three breeders to maintain its strength, or only the one.  They might see breeders as expendable, or as a precious asset.  Falmer may be cool with this and in fact directing it, or could be a threat to the whole thing because they see it as dangerous.  All player-adjustable.

 

One of my inspirations for the variability of Chaurus Life is ojanen's fan-fucking-tastic Player Succubus Quest mod, which has an insane degree of variability and can be dialed up or down to taste.  It is the mod that kept me in Skyrim long enough to learn to mod it.  It is also an object lesson in what not to do (not meaning a slam here): It needs boundaries or the variability becomes a hindrance to users, and it needs a clear correlation between action-response to allow a player to find the right settings.

 

Anyway, your thoughts are much appreciated, and I hear your concerns.  Please (and this goes for everyone) tell me if some piece of this seems to be in danger of going off the rails.  The concept is straightforward, but entails a lot of variables, and I want to build it to accommodate many different play styles and themes.

 

Thanks!

[ChaoSoul]

I look forward to this mods first full release even more now. Seems like it'll keep me playing skyrim until TES VI if there will be as many possible paths to take as you say! ?

[DremoraDream]

Just found this mod, and it makes for a very interesting turn of events if captured by this faction from another mod.

Is this still being worked on? How stable is it?

[Seijin8]

4 hours ago, DremoraDream said:

Just found this mod, and it makes for a very interesting turn of events if captured by this faction from another mod.

Is this still being worked on? How stable is it?

Yes, still being worked on, but fairly slowly right now as my other hobbies are taking precedence.

 

Reasonably stable, shouldn't be anything game-breaking.