Lovers Animations Workshop - old one

[gerra6]

Now the challenge for Gerra will be to detect BIP01Pelvis position and BIP01 displacement amplitude and frequency. With that you can auto generate BBB... And if you want to be really fancy' date=' take into account Spine bones rotations and movements... Won't that be a wonderful scientific phD thesis in math and computer science???[/color']

 

Getting the movement vectors for the various bones is easy enough (although it is complicated by the fact that I would have to account for the orientation of the bone relative to the armature if I am going to make the movement of one bone relevant to the movement of another).

 

The nasty challenge would be figuring out a good relationship between the movements of various bones and translating that into a decent looking BBB motion.

 

That'll probably get real ugly real fast.

 

The next version of Pose Converter is almost ready. Huge changes on the back-end...it doesn't look all that much different on the front end.

 

I just need to add the automatic scale bone correction module and I'll post it in its thread.

[gregathit]

Grumpf,

 

Here is another try with two versions of that same LifBot0.kf this time with two different bounce rates. I "think" the 1st one I did was around 8. Alt 1 is at 4 and Alt 2 is at 2.5

 

I would like to convert this animation to lovers format (along with adding breast bouncing to it) and release it if you are ok with that.

 

If you have any more animations they would be appreciated as we do have some gaps that need additional animations. Right now we have about 40 open animation slots that need to be filled after removing all the duplicates from the Daedra Sutra.

2nd try for lift animation bb.7z

[Grumpf]

Thanks guys, checking...

[gerra6]

I've got a question.

 

I've developed a working solution to the Growlf's resizing mod distorted breast problem. However, my solution required me to add four additional bones to the Growlf Controllable Skeleton.

 

Since I'm adding bones to the skeleton already, are there any requests for additional bones while I'm at it?

[gregathit]

Ok,

 

I reworked 143 bb pack\DS 16 so it "should" look better than it did (fingers crossed).

 

I also made a new version of 67 bb pack\DS 14 which Kasimir released. There was nothing at all wrong with Kasimir's version (it was rather nice in fact). What I did not like was the actual animation itself as stage 2 and 3 were really hurky\jerky for the defender's body going up and down. I smoothed that out hopefully quite a bit.

 

 

Kasimir, feel free to redo the boob work if you like the body movement of this version better than the original version.

 

 

 

 

 

Up next:

109, 115, 116, 118

 

Not sure I can improve on the below as they are pretty damn good already but I will give it the old college try and see what happens:

40, 119, 120

 

The above 7 animations will likely take me the rest of the week. After I finish a beta version of them I will probably go back to working on group 0 (cowgirl positions).

67 bb pack or DS 14.7z

143 bb pack or DS 16.7z

[legit1337]

@greg

 

Sorry, bit of a backlog with testing the anims. Here they are in no particular order.

 

DS 14- I love how you redid it. Very natural, the jiggle could be a tab more excessive on the defender though (there's a lot of "force" in those thrusts).

 

05 test patch- Most of the stretching has been eliminated, good work.

 

02 (phase 2 fix)- Bug still present , crazy boob.

 

03 (test patch)- I like the new hand placement!

 

DS 16- I think it is an improvement over your old one.

 

@everyone

 

I realize that I'm just the philistine calling out criticisms, and I haven't really got my hands dirty trying to work some of these changes myself. The only thing I can do right now to aid this process is to test and give my opinion... I'm trying to be constructive about it, but I still sometimes feel like a picky fat guy at a food tasting festival ("No! too cooked take it back!" "No, needs more sauce"). But I want to be honest with my feedback so you can use it to improve the anims. I just want everyone to know that even if I hate how an anim turned out, that it has no reflection on my feelings toward its creator, or his skills. As an amateur programmer I understand the tremendous amount of work that goes into these kind of things, and appreciate the effort and time that you guys put down on behalf of the community.

[gregathit]

Hey legit1337, gerra6 has some advice on how to fix the 02 deal and I will give it a shot later.

 

I probably won't have any more ready to test until Friday or Sat.

 

Cheers

Greg

[Symon]

Since I'm adding bones to the skeleton already' date=' are there any requests for additional bones while I'm at it?[/quote']

Male bones, two or three of them.

 

I'd also suggest removing the (many, many) unused bones. Nessa and I are currently testing an edited skeleton (only 50k) and finding it a joy.

[gregathit]

Since I'm adding bones to the skeleton already' date=' are there any requests for additional bones while I'm at it?[/quote']

Male bones, two or three of them.

 

I'd also suggest removing the (many, many) unused bones. Nessa and I are currently testing an edited skeleton (only 50k) and finding it a joy.

 

While I fully support the idea of less is more in most cases, won't this serve to break some armors\clothing (depending the usage)? I don't like the idea of forcing folks to nix things. Perhaps I am not understanding what you are going for here. Now if it is truly never used then yea, I would support that 100%!

[Symon]

Not that we've seen. The eight extra tails and pony tails are virtually (maybe completely) unused in 99.9% of meshes and animations.

[gregathit]

Not that we've seen. The eight extra tails and pony tails are virtually (maybe completely) unused in 99.9% of meshes and animations.

 

Got it. Well I vote to give them the ole axe then!

[gerra6]

Since I'm adding bones to the skeleton already' date=' are there any requests for additional bones while I'm at it?[/quote']

Male bones, two or three of them.

 

I'd also suggest removing the (many, many) unused bones. Nessa and I are currently testing an edited skeleton (only 50k) and finding it a joy.

 

That shouldn't be a problem.

 

What do you think...parent to the Bip01 Pelvis bone?

 

Now, the simplest thing might be to copy the Dick1 to Dick4 and Ball bones from the Fallout skeleton.

 

That would allow the pose converter tool to copy the relevant bone keychains from any existing animations that use those bones and add them to an existing animation.

 

However, if there are no plans to port any existing male organ animations, I could simply start from scratch.

 

Either way, this should give us the ability not only to move male organs around, but also to dynamically resize and reshape them. One possibility that might be worth considering is to reserve a single bone (probably Dick1 or a new bone parented to it) for switching between flacid and erect states. A quick scale and rotation is all it should take.

 

As far as the weightpainting goes, I could probably script an automated male organ weightpainter.

 

So far I've added three pairs of resizing bones to the Growlf's skeleton. The existing scale L/R Op1 bones have been renamed to scale L/R Op2 (it is actually parented to the OP2 bone, not the OP1 bone).

 

1. A new pair of scale L/R Op1 have been added and parented to the OP1 breast bones.

2. A pair of scale L/R Op3 have been added and parented to the OP3 breast bones

3. A pair of scale Buttock bones have been added and parented to the buttocks.

 

I'm personally hesitant to remove any bones, at least for a distributed version of the skeleton. That said, it should be easy enough to create a stripped down modders version of the skeleton that removes unnecessary distractions.

[Grumpf]

Since I'm adding bones to the skeleton already' date=' are there any requests for additional bones while I'm at it?

[/quote']

 

Male bones' date=' two or three of them.

 

I'd also suggest removing the (many, many) unused bones. Nessa and I are currently testing an edited skeleton (only 50k) and finding it a joy.

[/quote']

I never asked but yes, that would be great to have our Lab skeleton. Many cosmetic mods are using bones with absolutely no added value and aside from deleting them in my max setup and making the CSE complain everytime... I doubt they'll be missed!

• Wings are probably the ones we will debate about. Question is, how many players need that? A char with wings in OB can't work, the world was not meant to be flew over and it'll induce horrible clipping, not to mention the impossibilty to fit any cloth or armor. But as I said, I expect us to debate about that And there are two kinds, is that necessary?
   
  
• Whip bones. Never seen them used.
   
  
• Most scale bones. Either we develop something with them, or we abandon them...
   
  
• Tails and pony tails bones. Except for the Vanilla tail that, by the way, should only be in the Beast skeleton, I've never seen anything using them. Too bad as I would have loved some lifting skirt magica animation (you know the Japanese kind where the character concentrate like a super Saïen and his hair and skirt lift ?).
   
  
• High heels and scale neck bones: A sure way to destroy your game in no time with absolutely no added value.
   
  
• Other I can't recall.
  

Now, nothing prevents us to start with something we like and offer options to the player by adding bones he might "need".

 

But I agree we need peen bones! Also, even if it's rarely used for now and I know you don't really care Symon I'd like to keep the buttcheeks bones as we now have 2 or 3 animations using them it's only 4 of them and they're not in the way when on screen (as opposed to tails or wings). On the other hand, I'm willing to let them go. Except for some idles they're not "that" useful as the effect is marginal (see here).

 

Voilà, my two cents!

 

Cheers.

[Grumpf]

For Greg:

 

Perfect! This time it worked. The power4 seems fine to me, you can even try 5 but don't have to. If you want to add another one to LifBot1, feel free! LifBot2 shouldn't really bounce though.

 

And yes, of course, go on with conversion for LPK.

 

Cheers!

[gerra6]

OK, here it is...the Lovers Skeleton Mark 1

 

Please consider this a test alpha. Let me know if you encounter any errors, and please feel free to make any suggestions or requests.

 

This is a Base Growlf's Controllable Skeleton with the following additional bones

 

Male Organ Bones:

 

Dick1 : This is a child of the Bip01 Pelvis bone. Scale and rotation changes made to this bone will affect Dick2 - Dick4 bones. This makes this bone ideal for any special organ size idle animations (Growlf's resizing mod...just for men and ladyboys)

 

Balls : This is a child of the Bip01 Pelvis bone. It is independent of the Dick1-4 chain, and can be animated for such wonders as Better Bouncing Balls.

 

Breast and Buttock scale bones:

 

Breast and Buttock scale bones:

 

The breast scaling system has been completely redone.

 

A replacement scale R/L Op1 bone has been generated. These bones are the parents of the OP1 breast bones.

 

The old scale R/L Op1 has been renamed scale R/L Op2. They are the parent bones of the OP2 breast bones.

 

scale R/L Op3 has been added. It is the parent of the OP3 breast bones.

 

Why did I add two more scale bones? Scale modifications made to the old scale R/L Op1 bones generated a significant amount of distortion to the underlying meshes, particularly if they were weightpainted with OP3 bones. This modified system allows the scale changes to be made to the OP1 bone (instead of only the OP2 and OP3 bones)

 

To eliminate distortion, either use the specialized function in Pose Converter, or follow the following formula when utilizing scale R/L Op1 to increase breast size.

 

If you apply a scale pose of magnitude M to the scale R/L Op1, simply apply a scale pose of magnitude 1/M to both scale R/L Op2 and scale R/L Op3. This cancels out the extra growth that would otherwise be applied to OP2 and OP3 weightpainted regions.

 

The Buttock scale bone can be used to dynamically increase the size of B4 weighted buttocks, independent of any B4 animations.

 

Outdated Skeleton Removed

[gerra6]

But I agree we need peen bones! Also' date=' even if it's rarely used for now and I know you don't really care Symon I'd like to keep the buttcheeks bones as we now have 2 or 3 animations using them it's only 4 of them and they're not in the way when on screen (as opposed to tails or wings). On the other hand, I'm willing to let them go. Except for some idles they're not "that" useful as the effect is marginal (see here).

 

Voilà, my two cents!

 

Cheers.[/color]

 

I'm planning on keeping the buttocks bones. I really like how the B4 walking animations I've been working on (mostly for test purposes) are turning out.

 

However, I don't see any good reason not to create a highly streamlined version of the skeleton for ease of modding.

[TDA]

OK' date=' here it is...the Lovers Skeleton Mark 1

 

Please consider this a test alpha. Let me know if you encounter any errors, and please feel free to make any suggestions or requests.

 

This is a Base Growlf's Controllable Skeleton with the following additional bones

 

Male Organ Bones:

 

Dick1 : This is a child of the Bip01 Pelvis bone. Scale and rotation changes made to this bone will affect Dick2 - Dick4 bones. This makes this bone ideal for any special organ size idle animations (Growlf's resizing mod...just for men and ladyboys)

 

Balls : This is a child of the Bip01 Pelvis bone. It is independent of the Dick1-4 chain, and can be animated for such wonders as Better Bouncing Balls.

 

Breast and Buttock scale bones:

 

Breast and Buttock scale bones:

 

The breast scaling system has been completely redone.

 

A replacement scale R/L Op1 bone has been generated. These bones are the parents of the OP1 breast bones.

 

The old scale R/L Op1 has been renamed scale R/L Op2. They are the parent bones of the OP2 breast bones.

 

scale R/L Op3 has been added. It is the parent of the OP3 breast bones.

 

Why did I add two more scale bones? Scale modifications made to the old scale R/L Op1 bones generated a significant amount of distortion to the underlying meshes, particularly if they were weightpainted with OP3 bones. This modified system allows the scale changes to be made to the OP1 bone (instead of only the OP2 and OP3 bones)

 

To eliminate distortion, either use the specialized function in Pose Converter, or follow the following formula when utilizing scale R/L Op1 to increase breast size.

 

If you apply a scale pose of magnitude M to the scale R/L Op1, simply apply a scale pose of magnitude 1/M to both scale R/L Op2 and scale R/L Op3. This cancels out the extra growth that would otherwise be applied to OP2 and OP3 weightpainted regions.

 

The Buttock scale bone can be used to dynamically increase the size of B4 weighted buttocks, independent of any B4 animations.

 

Lovers Skeleton Mark I

 

What about the *tongue*?

 

One talented man did it for me, but it not perfect (too few bones -4 ).

Although the goal was animation for *eating ice cream*.

This will greatly enhance opportunities for creating animations,

without wild, comical and unreal movements for actors.

[kasimir]

Ok' date='

 

I reworked 143 bb pack\DS 16 so it "should" look better than it did (fingers crossed).

 

I also made a new version of 67 bb pack\DS 14 which Kasimir released. There was nothing at all wrong with Kasimir's version (it was rather nice in fact). What I did not like was the actual animation itself as stage 2 and 3 were really hurky\jerky for the defender's body going up and down. I smoothed that out hopefully quite a bit.

 

 

Kasimir, feel free to redo the boob work if you like the body movement of this version better than the original version.

 

 

 

 

 

Up next:

109, 115, 116, 118

 

Not sure I can improve on the below as they are pretty damn good already but I will give it the old college try and see what happens:

40, 119, 120

 

The above 7 animations will likely take me the rest of the week. After I finish a beta version of them I will probably go back to working on group 0 (cowgirl positions).

[/quote']

 

 

 

I will continue this...and I wasn´t satisfied with my 2nd animation either. There´s a weird "loop" inside of it, only visible in Blender, but that´s enough to screw up the adding of bbb to this one.

But keeping track of this is a pain in the ass, since I have sorted my animations in a completely different way then the DS does...Hopefully, someone recognizes them

 

 

 

@legit: I´m like you there, and I felt the exact same way...that´s why I started to look into Blender and Max, to start contributing myself. it´s frustrating, but worth it, even if you can only accomplish little things, like me

 

 

@TDA: speaking of a tongue, this has also been done for creatures.

 

 

 

[Gaebrial]

Wings are probably the ones we will debate about. Question is' date=' how many players need that? A char with wings in OB can't work, the world was not meant to be flew over and it'll induce horrible clipping, not to mention the impossibilty to fit any cloth or armor. But as I said, I expect us to debate about that And there are two kinds, is that necessary?[/quote']The Demon race (for one) uses wings, and it's present in the Race Balancing Project (as the Daedra Seducer), which quite a few people are using, myself included. The wings are only decorative, although they are designed to be animated.

 

Tails and pony tails bones. Except for the Vanilla tail that, by the way, should only be in the Beast skeleton, I've never seen anything using them. Too bad as I would have loved some lifting skirt magica animation (you know the Japanese kind where the character concentrate like a super Saïen and his hair and skirt lift ?).

I disagree. The tail needs to be present in the non-beast skeleton nif, because it is used by clothing items such as cloaks and capes.

[TDA]

 

@TDA: speaking of a tongue' date=' this has also been done for creatures.

 

[/quote']

 

I did not mean to animals. Animals did not interest me (at least in the game Oblivion.).

[gregathit]

I disagree. The tail needs to be present in the non-beast skeleton nif' date=' because it is used by clothing items such as cloaks and capes.

[/quote']

 

Agreed, the vanilla tail needs to stay. While assembling the BU packs I noticed a ton of armors\clothes that used the vanilla tail.

 

Now the "other" tails, I never have seen anything that used them.

 

Regardless, I think what we are talking about doing is keeping a skeleton that has "everything" and then making a streamlined one for modding. Unless this changes then no one will ever have any issues.

[Symon]

These bones strike me as legitimate and they are used in many meshes:

 

The Vanilla tail.

The un-named wings

The breast and genital bones.

Scale bones.

 

These bones I have no plans to use yet but they don't get in the way and many DO use them:

Buttock bones.

Whip bones.

 

These bones are inconvenient to me and I suspect of limited use:

The 'AlexScoropionBones' possible very limited.

The 'Drake' bones.

 

These are unused as far as I can tell:

The eight extra tails.

The ponytails.

[gerra6]

 

What about the *tongue*?

 

One talented man did it for me' date=' but it not perfect (too few bones -4 ).

Although the goal was animation for *eating ice cream*.

This will greatly enhance opportunities for creating animations,

without wild, comical and unreal movements for actors.

[/quote']

 

Send me the skeleton. I'll add the tongue and add a few more bones. How many tongue bones will you want?

[Guest]

I finally got around to downloading Blender (2.49b) been real busy. But I'm afraid to say I'm already running into roadblocks just trying to import things.

 

So far I can get the skeleton just fine but when trying to get the mesh over the skeleton it becomes a compacted mess in the middle of the scene. I'm following this guide but it doesn't mention anything about getting around any problems: http://oblivion.nexusmods.com/mods/32624

 

While I'm at it though I'm not sure if my aims are possible exactly, see I use scaled up females in game with the setscale command(I know its weird, I apologize but I just like size differences) and as such most of the females hands are floating really far away from their partner. I figure fixing this is definitely possible but it would be much much easier if I can have the increased scale reflected in Blender as well without screwing things up. It would also help alot if I could import two animation, the offensive side and defensive side, into one scene of course.

 

I don't want to hijack the thread into a 'help me' thing but, it looks like the best place to ask.

[gregathit]

I don't want to hijack the thread into a 'help me' thing but' date=' it looks like the best place to ask.

[/quote']

 

This most definitely is the right place. It is the "workshop" after all.

 

Unfortunately I will have to let others answer your questions as I am barely treading water in this myself.