Why do programs infest my computer?

[cailic]

I've kinda wondered about this for years.  It used to be that you bought a program and it all got installed under one folder.  If you installed a game, it installed into one folder (with sub-directories of course) the save files, everything.  Why do they spread files throughout my computer now?  It makes it nearly impossible to copy programs from one computer to another, without re-installing it.  Is there a logical reason for them doing this?  Or is just "neat" for them to put files under My Documents, App Data ect...  Or perhaps they believe in chaos theory.  You create enough chaos on my computer and there is a slim chance it will work better. 

 

And the developers can not even stick to the established framework.  My Documents folder is filled with folders for nearly every game I have installed.  There is a folder called "My Games" that only a few developers utilize.  Do the others think they are special?  Or do they just like to create dis-order on my computer?

 

I just want to know.

 

[darkconsole]

most of it is due to the way microsoft has changed how user accounts work. my documents/my games didn't used to be a thing until like xp, where it was a magic "Games" folder. at some point microsoft tried to make syncing data across multiple computers easier, via various mechanisms like data getting stored on a domain controller. thats why in appdata we have roaming, local, and locallow. roaming was originally suppose to be for data that gets magically copied to any pc you log into by the network controller. the thing is nobody does that shit outside of their work environment (and game dev studios by proxy themselves are work environments, hence the complete disconnect), so its all just a dumping ground.

on top of that, add in that studios get the memo late or are already 2 years into development when the next os came out and cbf to deal with a trivial thing like the location of a save file. then places like bethesda that never upgrade anything.

[cailic]

13 hours ago, darkconsole said:

most of it is due to the way microsoft has changed how user accounts work. my documents/my games didn't used to be a thing until like xp, where it was a magic "Games" folder. at some point microsoft tried to make syncing data across multiple computers easier, via various mechanisms like data getting stored on a domain controller. thats why in appdata we have roaming, local, and locallow. roaming was originally suppose to be for data that gets magically copied to any pc you log into by the network controller. the thing is nobody does that shit outside of their work environment (and game dev studios by proxy themselves are work environments, hence the complete disconnect), so its all just a dumping ground.

on top of that, add in that studios get the memo late or are already 2 years into development when the next os came out and cbf to deal with a trivial thing like the location of a save file. then places like bethesda that never upgrade anything.

Thanks.  That gives me a better idea.  In a nutshell, Microsoft is to blame.  Not a surprise.  I never had any virus ever crash my system before, only hard drive failures.  Then Microsoft forces updates on you and well, it was worse than any virus I ever got.  Had to reset my laptop.  I never got it back to the way it should be since Microsoft could crash it again the next week.  Uhh.. I'm running on a tangent.  Anyway, thanks for explaining.

[Reginald_001]

16 hours ago, cailic said:

I've kinda wondered about this for years.  It used to be that you bought a program and it all got installed under one folder.  If you installed a game, it installed into one folder (with sub-directories of course) the save files, everything.  Why do they spread files throughout my computer now?  It makes it nearly impossible to copy programs from one computer to another, without re-installing it.  Is there a logical reason for them doing this?  Or is just "neat" for them to put files under My Documents, App Data ect...  Or perhaps they believe in chaos theory.  You create enough chaos on my computer and there is a slim chance it will work better. 

 

And the developers can not even stick to the established framework.  My Documents folder is filled with folders for nearly every game I have installed.  There is a folder called "My Games" that only a few developers utilize.  Do the others think they are special?  Or do they just like to create dis-order on my computer?

 

I just want to know.

 

Despite the fact that everything that DarkConsole said is TRUE, it's not the reason for doing this.

 

The real idea behind this is to allow for multiple users of the same application on one machine and to allow SYSTEM RESTORE to keep track of changes. In this way user 1 and user 2 can install this application for only themselves on this machine. This is great, for instance, when you have children in your house.

 

My brother (like me) likes to play erotic RPG's and sexy games, so he installs them only under his account. When his kids use the PC, they don't see these apps/games and don't have the skill to hack their dad's password. So it's mostly for account separation and storing of individual settings.

 

This why some programs ask 'Install this application only for the current user, or install it for all users?'

 

Another important reason is for system recovery purposes.

In order for SYSTEM RESTORE to work properly, it needs to keep track of applications installed, etc.. It does this by making fixed directories (e.g. C:\Users\User\AppData). By forcing application designers to store their settings in there, SYSTEM RESTORE can simply back up that directory so it can later restore your system to an earlier moment in time.

 

Long story short:

- To facilitate multiple users on a machine and allow RBAC to these apps (Role Based Application Access)

- To facilitate multiple functions inside Windows SYSTEM RESTORE by centralizing settings to fixed directories/places.

[cailic]

3 minutes ago, Reginald_001 said:

It's half of what darkconsole said.

 

The real idea behind this is to allow for multiple users of the same application on one machine. In this way user 1 and user 2 can install this application for only themselves on this machine. This is great, for instance, when you have children in your house.

 

My brother (like me) likes to play erotic RPG's and sexy games, so he installs them only under his account. When his kids use the PC, they don't see these apps/games and don't have the skill to hack their dad's password. So it's mostly for account separation and storing of individual settings.

 

This why some programs ask 'Install this application only for the current user, or install it for all users?'

That makes sense.  I don't have kids any never will, so that whole multiple users option didn't even occur to me.  It was lost amongst all the other noise in my head.

[Grey Cloud]

2 hours ago, cailic said:

In a nutshell, Microsoft is to blame. 

If in doubt, blame Microsoft. Doesn't matter what, just blame Microsoft. ?

 

2 hours ago, cailic said:

Then Microsoft forces updates on you and well, it was worse than any virus I ever got. 

See. Just blame Microsoft. Nothing to do with your own ignorance.

Microsoft never forces anything on me.

 

Which OS you running? W10? And did you upgrade when MS were giving it away? Or did you get it with your <brand name> laptop?

[cailic]

5 hours ago, Grey Cloud said:

If in doubt, blame Microsoft. Doesn't matter what, just blame Microsoft. ?

 

See. Just blame Microsoft. Nothing to do with your own ignorance.

Microsoft never forces anything on me.

 

Which OS you running? W10? And did you upgrade when MS were giving it away? Or did you get it with your <brand name> laptop?

Yep, W10.  It was the giveaway deal.   Err... actually I cann't remember about the laptop.  Ya, I think it came with Win10. 

 

How do you disable the updates???  Not that I'm against updates, I have always preferred to do them on my own time.  Like once every few months.  And the biggest problem now is I'm in rural America.  Our only internet option is through Windstream.  Guaranteed 1 mb/s.  And we get that, a few days every month.  Thus, with three computers in the house, all running updates, we can barely use the internet for two or three days a week.  Even one download bogs our internet down to being pretty much useless.   And there is never a time when somebody isn't on the net.  So scheduling the updates for 3am doesn't work.  Especially since they could be running all the next day or two or even three.   This is what really pisses me off about Microsoft.  Since I'm running their OS, it seems they think they own my computer, unless you tell me how to turn off the updates.

[Grey Cloud]

3 minutes ago, cailic said:

Yep, W10.  It was the giveaway deal.   Err... actually I cann't remember about the laptop.  Ya, I think it came with Win10. 

 

How do you disable the updates???  Not that I'm against updates, I have always preferred to do them on my own time.  Like once every few months.  And the biggest problem now is I'm in rural America.  Our only internet option is through Windstream.  Guaranteed 1 mb/s.  And we get that, a few days every month.  Thus, with three computers in the house, all running updates, we can barely use the internet for two or three days a week.  Even one download bogs our internet down to being pretty much useless.   And there is never a time when somebody isn't on the net.  So scheduling the updates for 3am doesn't work.  Especially since they could be running all the next day or two or even three.   This is what really pisses me off about Microsoft.  Since I'm running their OS, it seems they think they own my computer, unless you tell me how to turn off the updates.

I don't use W10, I stuck with W7. I've never used automatic updates with any OS. I can't remember the last time I did a manual on this machine. If it aint broke . . . I don't let anything do automatic on my machines (which I build myself), not drivers or browser updates, etc.

 

There must be a way to stop the updates with W10 because on one of the SE threads they have problems with the updates screwing things and some people have the updates turned off or at least choosing what is allowed through and when. Then there is always trusty Google

https://www.google.co.uk/search?source=hp&ei=rtX1W7vBJYb3gQb-7rfgDw&q=stop+automatic+updates+windows+10&oq=stop+windows+10+&gs_l=psy-ab.1.0.0i7i30l3j0j0i7i30l6.1547.4045575..4050035...0.0..0.180.2416.19j6......0....1..gws-wiz.....0..35i39j0i67j0i131j0i10j0i13.ZUMkXm93TDM

[cailic]

1 hour ago, Grey Cloud said:

I don't use W10, I stuck with W7. I've never used automatic updates with any OS. I can't remember the last time I did a manual on this machine. If it aint broke . . . I don't let anything do automatic on my machines (which I build myself), not drivers or browser updates, etc.

 

There must be a way to stop the updates with W10 because on one of the SE threads they have problems with the updates screwing things and some people have the updates turned off or at least choosing what is allowed through and when. Then there is always trusty Google

https://www.google.co.uk/search?source=hp&ei=rtX1W7vBJYb3gQb-7rfgDw&q=stop+automatic+updates+windows+10&oq=stop+windows+10+&gs_l=psy-ab.1.0.0i7i30l3j0j0i7i30l6.1547.4045575..4050035...0.0..0.180.2416.19j6......0....1..gws-wiz.....0..35i39j0i67j0i131j0i10j0i13.ZUMkXm93TDM

Windows 7 was great, except I had to re-install it every few months to keep it running smooth.  So much that I had to start calling MS to get their approval.  All the posts I read said there is a way if I invested in Win10 Pro.  The option does not exist in the free version.  I looked up editing the Registry files, but it makes me nervous that some of the entries I am supposed to enter are already there, with different values.  Hmm.. maybe I could try it on my laptop.  It's already screwed up.

[landess]

Win10 is the biggest bully on the block.

 

I've went into multiple locations in an attempt to disable, turn off permissions, delete files, rename folders, start up with modem unplugged, etc., just so I'd have control of my own machine to no avail.

 

The closest I can get now is using Shutup10. but even that sometimes requires a couple reboots until the OS decides to selfscan during some unknown time frame and reset everything back the way it wants it. I avoided the creators update for over a year until having the internet turned off for 6 months had Win10 do a stealth update as soon as I had the cableguy turn it on and was checking the ISP's speed. grrrrrr

 

A computer used to be your home, now it's a condo.

[D_ManXX2]

Windows 10 even seem to have failsafe even if you turn allot of parts of in the privacy part they still seem to have tools that will reanable everything afterwards. it even is being installed with its update so even if you remove a new update will reinstall this tool again.

 

Check program files if you have a directory called rempl then this is the tool they use i think the filename is sedlauncher.exe or something similar but they seem to change the name on occation because they know allot of people seem to remove this file.

[karlpaws]

On 11/21/2018 at 8:31 AM, cailic said:

In a nutshell, Microsoft is to blame. 

 

I never had any virus ever crash my system before, only hard drive failures.

Along with what Reg said another reason for the separation of user files from program files is write access to protected areas of the computer. If a random program cannot update or change things in the sensitive areas, it reduces the risk of infection or malicious changing of files. That's the theory at least, as all it seemed to do is teach the Monkeys to click Accept on everything, or go paranoid and deny everything they don't understand (which is everything) including updates to necessary things like Flash, Java, Adobe Reader or other non-Microsoft programs with the own regular updates.

On 11/21/2018 at 8:31 AM, Reginald_001 said:

Despite the fact that everything that DarkConsole said is TRUE, it's not the reason for doing this.

 

Long story short:

- To facilitate multiple users on a machine and allow RBAC to these apps (Role Based Application Access)

- To facilitate multiple functions inside Windows SYSTEM RESTORE by centralizing settings to fixed directories/places.

 

On 11/21/2018 at 4:57 PM, cailic said:

Since I'm running their OS, it seems they think they own my computer, unless you tell me how to turn off the updates.

Ironically, if you look at the EULA you'll find you might own your computer but you don't own Windows. You've only paid for permission to run it on that computer and that license isn't transferable. Should you sell the computer, the buyer has to pay for a new copy of Windows.  The difficulty in disabled Updates is probably as much a factor of Microsoft tired of getting bad PR from idiots who turned off updates without knowing what to do or following the suggestions of people that don't know quite as much as they thought they did, and were infected by something preventable, then blaming Microsoft (or Intel or some other entity not at fault) for their self caused problems.

[cailic]

9 hours ago, karlpaws said:

Along with what Reg said another reason for the separation of user files from program files is write access to protected areas of the computer. If a random program cannot update or change things in the sensitive areas, it reduces the risk of infection or malicious changing of files. That's the theory at least, as all it seemed to do is teach the Monkeys to click Accept on everything, or go paranoid and deny everything they don't understand (which is everything) including updates to necessary things like Flash, Java, Adobe Reader or other non-Microsoft programs with the own regular updates.

 

Ironically, if you look at the EULA you'll find you might own your computer but you don't own Windows. You've only paid for permission to run it on that computer and that license isn't transferable. Should you sell the computer, the buyer has to pay for a new copy of Windows.  The difficulty in disabled Updates is probably as much a factor of Microsoft tired of getting bad PR from idiots who turned off updates without knowing what to do or following the suggestions of people that don't know quite as much as they thought they did, and were infected by something preventable, then blaming Microsoft (or Intel or some other entity not at fault) for their self caused problems.

When I worked at CompUSA (Remember that place?), three time our techs were called out on jobs because the customers computer wasn't working.  They pushed the power button and nothing happened.  After the third time of being called out on this particular problem, our techs began asking the customers over the phone if the computer is plugged in.  Yep, it really happens. 

If you can remember, tech support used to be free.  Too many people calling in for such problems made it so we have to pay now. 

 

But essentially what you are saying is that Windows 10 does not work on my computer since it renders the internet useless during it updates.  It hinders my computer's functionality, therefore it is incompatible. 

[karlpaws]

9 hours ago, cailic said:

If you can remember, tech support used to be free.  Too many people calling in for such problems made it so we have to pay now. 

 

But essentially what you are saying is that Windows 10 does not work on my computer since it renders the internet useless during it updates.  It hinders my computer's functionality, therefore it is incompatible. 

Computers became like toasters and TVs, everyone had to have one. Too bad they're not that simple, so anyone could use one (also a lot of companies see support as an expense, not as a sunk cost and try to reduce it as much as possible).

 

Engineers try to produce more fool proof inventions. The universe produces better fools. So far, the universe is winning.

 

The gene pool could use a little more chlorine.

 

Etc.

 

One of the things I point out to my customers (I am a computer tech) is that a new computer may be no faster than the old one they have now, depending on what hardware they are getting for that $250 deal, and the fact that "Windows is heavier now, it does more and takes more power to do it, so a computer that used to run Win 7 just fine struggles under 10."

 

Look at the system requirements for MS Word 3 vs Word 2016 or today's 365 subscription and tell me what the new one does better or faster to require all of that power.

 

Look at the size of Win XP service packs 1, 2 or 3 ( ~200-500 MB at most, iirc) and then the April 2018 update for Win 10 (around 4 GB).  That's why your computer is unusable while it's updating, especially if you're not in a big city with 50-80 mbps internet.

[Ernest Lemmingway]

Maybe it's because I grew up with computers from the days of DOS (remember that?), but I've always been a bit paranoid about what's actually on my computer. These days just using programs like any web browser, Windows Explorer, or even just having programs like Microsoft Edge--which are hard-coded into Win 10 and can't be removed --installed create "tracking files" that can be used to determine your activity and usage unless you clean them off. Clearing your browser's History or using the Disk Cleanup option in Windows doesn't touch them, either. We need to use programs like CCleaner to get rid of them. And they can accumulate into massive blocks that eat up hard drive space if they aren't cleaned off regularly. I run it at the end of each day and I regularly clear off ~20-40 megabytes of crap created without my permission, sometimes as much as a gig or more if there's been a Windows update. Tracking files are meant for network monitoring and they serve no purpose on private systems.

 

I even run File Shredder to shred my free disk space once a month. Both to free up space used by shadow copies and to cover my furry butt in case the SJWs and special snowflakes finally seize power and impose a moralistic dictatorship on us. It's not paranoia if they really are out to get you! 

[landess]

Remember the Master Control Program from the movie TRON?

 

I'm sure if you stripped down Windows to it's most primitive form you'd find some small BASIC program slaving away beneath the weight of all the iterations added over the years, and released as new 'versions'. Someone @ Microsoft said FREE BEER, and it's been an APP party ever since.

 

Humerus : A Radiologists idea of being funny

[Z0mBieP00Nani]

Too many trips to porn sites maybe?...

 

 

 

 

 

 

*just kidding*

[Guest]

On 11/20/2018 at 4:39 PM, cailic said:

I've kinda wondered about this for years.  It used to be that you bought a program and it all got installed under one folder.  If you installed a game, it installed into one folder (with sub-directories of course) the save files, everything.  Why do they spread files throughout my computer now?  It makes it nearly impossible to copy programs from one computer to another, without re-installing it.  Is there a logical reason for them doing this?  Or is just "neat" for them to put files under My Documents, App Data ect...  Or perhaps they believe in chaos theory.  You create enough chaos on my computer and there is a slim chance it will work better. 

 

And the developers can not even stick to the established framework.  My Documents folder is filled with folders for nearly every game I have installed.  There is a folder called "My Games" that only a few developers utilize.  Do the others think they are special?  Or do they just like to create dis-order on my computer?

 

I just want to know.

 

Most programs allow you to install to a custom directory. My C drive is nothing but Microsoft stuff and critical monitorware like MSI Afterburner.

 

My D drive is everything else.