Fallout 76 announcement? (Bethesda Live Stream)

[Henry8t]

Speaking of Creation Club:There will probably more updates adding Items
from the new Fallout76 Game into Fallout 4 in the near future.
It wouldn't be that suprising.
All these Rumors,speculations vids on Youtoube, i shouldn't have paid attention to that.
in the first place.The smarter choice would have been to wait until the Official Announcement,then worry about

the future of the Fallout Franchise.

[Veniat]

I actually kinda hope there are more CC stuff, mainly more quests and NPCs more than anything else;  I kinda think that's where the real power of the CC lies cause they have the raw voice over files and access to the voice actors if necessary for stuff smaller than a full on DLC. 

I love the CC but I really hope there is modding too, if there's not I'm so passing over 76 until Fallout 5. 

[tlrd]

To add to the "no more free mods" thing console just got mods why remove them? Like "hey Xbox users did you like getting mods for the first time because that's also the last go fuck yourself!" I doubt they'ed do that unless its specifically for this title because of the co-op in which case they need to be abundantly clear that the no mods thing is exclusively for this title and not future ones.

[Ernest Lemmingway]

On 6/3/2018 at 2:37 PM, Veniat said:

I actually kinda hope there are more CC stuff, mainly more quests and NPCs more than anything else;  I kinda think that's where the real power of the CC lies cause they have the raw voice over files and access to the voice actors if necessary for stuff smaller than a full on DLC.

Whether it's just Sony and Microsoft bullshitting us, or it's based on hard technical limitations, there's a limit on how many forms any mod for consoles that Bugthesda will not exceed. In this case, "forms" is a catchall term for "everything comprising the mod." Including objects, lighting, sounds, etc. Since the CC is geared almost exclusively at console gamers, they will not post mods that exceed that limit (8,000 IIRC).

 

That in itself precludes anything larger than the house mods by Elianora. Or quest mods more complex than the Lord's Mail for Skyrim. They also won't bother with NPCs with custom lines because that would require paying the voice actor for the work. Pretty much what exists already is the upper limit of the complexity that will be ever be released on the CC unless that form limit is somehow enlarged.

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Back on the topic of what may happen, it wouldn't surprise me if Bugthesda really did limit FO76 to mods released on the CC. It's the logical extreme of their actions setting up both BethNet and the CC itself. The never-finished FO4 CK, their flat out refusal to work with Silverlock in making sure updates didn't break the Script Extender because "those who use Script Extenders are a significant minority" (Pete Hines' own words), all the work on making mods available for consoles, need I go on?

 

Console gamers are the only ones they care about now because console gamers don't have access to any other source of mods but them. They've figured out how to extort money from players who want to use mods.

 

I'm actually hoping this turns out to be true. Not because I like paid mods but because it could provide the swift kick in the ass that finally proves to them how important free modding is. No mods means no long-term appeal, or potentially short-term appeal when there are no unofficial patches to repair what they don't/won't fix.

[Halstrom]

I heard on Facebook its going to be a side scroller

[SirDuke]

4 hours ago, Halstrom said:

I heard on Facebook its going to be a side scroller

 

I found a leak from the new Title Screen!

 

And it´s with a proof; it will have single AND multiplayer!!!

 

Spoiler

 

 

Just look at the amazing fantastic new 3D engine!

 

?

[Halstrom]

2 minutes ago, SirDuke said:

 

I found a leak from the new Title Screen!

 

And it´s with a proof; it will have single AND multiplayer!!!

 

  Hide contents

 

 

Just look at the amazing fantastic new 3D engine!

 

?

Awesome, is that the new Second Life engine?

[SirDuke]

2 minutes ago, Halstrom said:

Awesome, is that the new Second Life engine?

I don´t know, I always thought Second Life would run on "Havoc".

But this could possibly be Unity 2020, too.

Man they really hit the shit for a sidescroller this time!

[winny257]

 

I rub my hands in front malicious joy.
This game is expected to be online heavy, Focus rebuilding of the fallout world. 
single player A.d. (Goodbye)
modding A.d. (Goodbye) 

 

 

Spoiler

After a live livestream to Fallout on the official Bethesda channels came online last night, the mystery was finally revealed. Fallout 76 will be the next game in the popular post-apocalyptic fallout series.

 

Todd Howard personally announced the teaser for the next game from the House of Bethesda. It will bear the name Fallout 76 and could possibly deal with the reconstruction after the nuclear fallout.

 

https://mein-mmo.de/fallout-76-teaser/

 

[Evilynn]

12 hours ago, Ernest Lemmingway said:

 Console gamers are the only ones they care about now because console gamers don't have access to any other source of mods but them. They've figured out how to extort money from players who want to use mods.

 

I'm actually hoping this turns out to be true. Not because I like paid mods but because it could provide the swift kick in the ass that finally proves to them how important free modding is. No mods means no long-term appeal, or potentially short-term appeal when there are no unofficial patches to repair what they don't/won't fix.

While I hope you're right, I'm worried that you're wrong about the importance of modding on the long term success of these games.

 

The problem is that we are a very skewed sample. Basically, everyone reading this post knows how awesome mods are and how much they add to the game...

 

However, we are a small fraction of Bethesda's profit... At least directly.

 

If PC players didn't exist, and Skyrim was only produced for console players... How much of a profit would they need to make in order to break even? I'm guessing about 5% once you count the fact that they would no longer need to create a PC version at all.

 

The real question, and it's one we don't know the answer to, is just how much INDIRECT profit do they make from mods. We want to say a lot, but we really don't know... 

 

I'm with @Ernest Lemmingway ... Let's do this. Let's answer the question. It will either greatly increase Bethesda's support for modding, or remove it compleatly... Either way I'll no longer be using a broken Creation Kit to make mods... Either because they fixed it, or because  I'm coding in a real game engine like unity or unreal engine.

 

I'd be overjoyed if they started supporting us, but I'm not going to be angry if they decide to stop. After all making an honest profit is what a company should be doing. If dropping mod support results in greater earnings, fine. I don't like it, but I understand.

 

What makes me angry is the partial support we currently have... At least as a mod creator.

 

Creation Kit truly sucks. Going to unity would make my nighttime coding so much more relaxing... Even if I'd suddenly need to build the entire world.

 

 

[winny257]

12 hours ago, Ernest Lemmingway said:

Back on the topic of what may happen, it wouldn't surprise me if Bugthesda really did limit FO76 to mods released on the CC. It's the logical extreme of their actions setting up both BethNet and the CC itself. The never-finished FO4 CK, their flat out refusal to work with Silverlock in making sure updates didn't break the Script Extender because "those who use Script Extenders are a significant minority" (Pete Hines' own words), all the work on making mods available for consoles, need I go on?

 

Console gamers are the only ones they care about now because console gamers don't have access to any other source of mods but them. They've figured out how to extort money from players who want to use mods.

 

I'm actually hoping this turns out to be true. Not because I like paid mods but because it could provide the swift kick in the ass that finally proves to them how important free modding is. No mods means no long-term appeal, or potentially short-term appeal when there are no unofficial patches to repair what they don't/won't fix.

I hope somebody gives Bethesda the graces shot, because have more they not deserved! 

 

[Ernest Lemmingway]

2 hours ago, Evilynn said:

What makes me angry is the partial support we currently have... At least as a mod creator.

That's also what really irritates me about FO4 and Bugthesda as of late. I'm not a mod creator except for a custom plug-in to alter certain values to my tastes but I am an avid mod user. The company's actions have severely delayed mods I just won't play their newer games without because said actions break the modding tools needed to create them. Mods are the primary reason players kept buying and playing the company's games over so many years. This lag in both the number and complexity of mods available for their newer titles can easily translate to less people buying--or recommending--BGS games. Which in turn hurts current profitability.

 

Without mods I'm absolutely sure 90% of the people still playing BGS games would have moved on to different things by now.

[Evilynn]

6 minutes ago, Ernest Lemmingway said:

Without mods I'm absolutely sure 90% of the people still playing BGS games would have moved on to different things by now.

Sadly Bethesda makes the exact same amount of money if I play 5 hours, 50 hours, 500 hours, or 5000 hours.

 

It's a frustrating problem that I don't have a solution to... Unless we can prove some of the indirect income...

 

If it's true, they expect it to hurt sales some, but the expect to make far more on the mod store.

 

Heh, the additional publicity might even help sales.

[Ernest Lemmingway]

2 minutes ago, Evilynn said:

Sadly Bethesda makes the exact same amount of money if I play 5 hours, 50 hours, 500 hours, or 5000 hours.

Actually I was referring to how many people bought their titles well after their initial launch. It's quite easy for a game to simply fade away from public knowledge after a year or so unless it's got some serious staying power. Which, without mods, BGS titles don't have.

[winny257]

1 hour ago, Ernest Lemmingway said:

Actually I was referring to how many people bought their titles well after their initial launch. It's quite easy for a game to simply fade away from public knowledge after a year or so unless it's got some serious staying power. Which, without mods, BGS titles don't have.

All Fallout Games Not bought, Prey Not bought, Wolfenstein Not bought, SSE I have not, SkyrimVR Not bought!
Fallout 76 will I not buy, RAGE 2 will I not buy, that means, I'm done with this fucking company. 

[Halstrom]

3 hours ago, winny257 said:

All Fallout Games Not bought, Prey Not bought, Wolfenstein Not bought, SSE I have not, SkyrimVR Not bought!
Fallout 76 will I not buy, RAGE 2 will I not buy, that means, I'm done with this fucking company. 

Every PlayStation Game ever made Not Brought

Every X-Box Game ever made Not Brought
Every Nintendo Game ever made Not Brought

Every Wii Game ever made Not Brought

I'm done with those companies

[Evilynn]

4 hours ago, Ernest Lemmingway said:

Actually I was referring to how many people bought their titles well after their initial launch. It's quite easy for a game to simply fade away from public knowledge after a year or so unless it's got some serious staying power. Which, without mods, BGS titles don't have.

No, I get that... I just don't know if your hypothesis is correct.

 

I'm a developer and I work with developers... I did a survey of the developers that sit near me.

 

Of the 14 I sit near:

 

I play on the PC and mod

(A) plays on the PC and mods

(B) plays on PC, and only starting modding after I introduced it to her.

(C) plays on PC and doesn't mod.

(D) plays on the PS4 and "mods" (is PS4 modding really modding? no scripts at all last I heard)

(E) plays on the the PS4 and doesn't mod.

(F) plays on the Xbox and doesn't mod.

(G) plays on the PS4 and doesn't mod.

(H) through (L) own Skyrim either on the PS4 or XBox, but none have modded it, and haven't played it in years.

(M) and (N) Don't own Skyrim.

 

Keep in mind, these are developers that already have a gaming pc (except for two that don't even dual boot to windows), and all have the technical knowledge to easily mod... heh, all of them could even create mods if they wanted to. They code 40-50 hours a week already.

 

This is an extremely small sample, so it could be completely wrong in every way... but...

 

1) Most still only own Skyrim on a console.

2) Only half of the PC players mod - depending on how you count the girl I introduced to Frostfall and Ordinator.

 

 

[Veniat]

20 hours ago, Ernest Lemmingway said:

Whether it's just Sony and Microsoft bullshitting us, or it's based on hard technical limitations, there's a limit on how many forms any mod for consoles that Bugthesda will not exceed. In this case, "forms" is a catchall term for "everything comprising the mod." Including objects, lighting, sounds, etc. Since the CC is geared almost exclusively at console gamers, they will not post mods that exceed that limit (8,000 IIRC).

 

That in itself precludes anything larger than the house mods by Elianora. Or quest mods more complex than the Lord's Mail for Skyrim. They also won't bother with NPCs with custom lines because that would require paying the voice actor for the work. Pretty much what exists already is the upper limit of the complexity that will be ever be released on the CC unless that form limit is somehow enlarged.

The ESL format increased the original mod limit somewhat and laid a base for further expansion using new allocation techniques which would exponentially increase the maximum amount of forms that could be loaded into the game.  An 8,000 form limit is crazy high though for the majority of mods.  

You don't need that many forms in a single plugin unless you're making a massive DLC sized mod.  I'm guessing the file limits some kind of obscure limitation that's been decided by Microsoft or Sony, cross-platform licensing and file distribution agreements can be a pain in the arse;  Maybe one of the companies want to inspect the individual files somehow and decided that limit is all they can process? I've got no idea what goes through the heads of some corporate managers. 

[winny257]

14 hours ago, Halstrom said:

Every PlayStation Game ever made Not Brought

Every X-Box Game ever made Not Brought
Every Nintendo Game ever made Not Brought

Every Wii Game ever made Not Brought

I'm done with those companies 

my first console Pong Pong 1972
my last console Sega Saturn 1994

from this time only still PCs, my current PC cost 7.999,00 € 

Spoiler

https://www.neckermann.de/p/csl-extreme-gaming-pc-i9-7960x-gtx-1080-ti-128-gb-ddr4-ssd-hydrox-t9040-wasserkuehlung-645935177?mp=vkp_psm&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI0oSJxZC_2wIVg4jVCh1cGA0kEAQYASABEgIeXfD_BwE#60746613.0

 

[Carreau]

12 hours ago, Veniat said:

 I'm guessing the file limits some kind of obscure limitation that's been decided by Microsoft or Sony, cross-platform licensing and file distribution agreements can be a pain in the arse;

The limitation is due to the code base being originally designed as 32 bit. While FO4 and SSE run fine on 64-bit machines, they don’t take advantage of the additional addressing. Each form is basically a memory address where the final 16 bits are typically the form ID. 2^16=65536 forms.  But, the CK locks out the use of forms from 0x000 to 0x7FF, which is the first 11 bits (2048 forms). These are reserved for hard coded forms. ESLs lock in the plugin part to 0xFE and merge all ESLs into one ESP during game load. The rest of the address gets chopped up and disperses less bits to the form id portion. Out of the number of forms from the remaining 12 bits, half of them are reserved, that leaves only 2048 forms for an ESL.  

 

regardless. Since FO4 uses a slighyly upgraded engine from Skyrim, the 32-bit lock was inevitable. Hopefully, whatever version of the CE FO76 uses has been upgraded to take advantage of 64 bit architecture since 32-bit support is basically legacy support at this point. 

[Halstrom]

Well its already up for pre-Order  for $60 and for PC, X-Box1 and PS4
https://gear.bethesda.net/products/fallout-76

[ToJKa]

2 hours ago, winny257 said:

my first console Pong Pong 1972
my last console Sega Saturn 1994

from this time only still PCs, my current PC cost 7.999,00 € 

  Hide contents

https://www.neckermann.de/p/csl-extreme-gaming-pc-i9-7960x-gtx-1080-ti-128-gb-ddr4-ssd-hydrox-t9040-wasserkuehlung-645935177?mp=vkp_psm&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI0oSJxZC_2wIVg4jVCh1cGA0kEAQYASABEgIeXfD_BwE#60746613.0

 

Wow! And here was i thinking my 2200€ PC was expensive ?

Well, adding the display and other external stuff, it's probably closer to 3200€.

But hey, that's a lot for air-cooled single GPU system ?

 

How 'bout this one: https://www.jimms.fi/fi/Product/Show/92154/jimms-legen-king/jimm-s-legendary-king ?

(Two Xeons, four Titans? What the hell is that for? Running the Matrix?)

 

On topic: figures. There were a lot of people in the old official forum who considered everything BGS an instant pre-order, even before learning enything about it. I'd imagine there still are, but i'd also imagine that less than there used to be.

[Carreau]

14 minutes ago, Halstrom said:

Well its already up for pre-Order  for $60 and for PC, X-Box1 and PS4
https://gear.bethesda.net/products/fallout-76

It was available for preorder following the teaser trailer drop. That was Jason Schrier’s big reason for writing his article regarding his anonymous contacts in Bethesda dropping some gameplay info. He felt obligated to make sure people knew FO76 might not be what they expect before they drop money on a pre-order. 

 

But I’m also waiting to see what kind of limited edition will be ran. I need something to go with my FO3 lunchbox and FO4 Pipboy 4000. 

[winny257]

1 hour ago, ToJKa said:

Wow! And here was i thinking my 2200€ PC was expensive ?

Well, adding the display and other external stuff, it's probably closer to 3200€.

But hey, that's a lot for air-cooled single GPU system ?

 

How 'bout this one: https://www.jimms.fi/fi/Product/Show/92154/jimms-legen-king/jimm-s-legendary-king ?

(Two Xeons, four Titans? What the hell is that for? Running the Matrix?)

 

On topic: figures. There were a lot of people in the old official forum who considered everything BGS an instant pre-order, even before learning enything about it. I'd imagine there still are, but i'd also imagine that less than there used to be.

you will hardly believe it, although I have these high-end PC. 
I prefer to play on my old system works with Windows 7, very many old games do not work with Windows 10, these old games are 10 times better than the new crap.

[Veniat]

6 hours ago, Carreau said:

The limitation is due to the code base being originally designed as 32 bit. While FO4 and SSE run fine on 64-bit machines, they don’t take advantage of the additional addressing. Each form is basically a memory address where the final 16 bits are typically the form ID. 2^16=65536 forms.  But, the CK locks out the use of forms from 0x000 to 0x7FF, which is the first 11 bits (2048 forms). These are reserved for hard coded forms. ESLs lock in the plugin part to 0xFE and merge all ESLs into one ESP during game load. The rest of the address gets chopped up and disperses less bits to the form id portion. Out of the number of forms from the remaining 12 bits, half of them are reserved, that leaves only 2048 forms for an ESL.  

 

regardless. Since FO4 uses a slighyly upgraded engine from Skyrim, the 32-bit lock was inevitable. Hopefully, whatever version of the CE FO76 uses has been upgraded to take advantage of 64 bit architecture since 32-bit support is basically legacy support at this point. 

Yeah, I understand how forms are allocated in memory and the limitations, I was specifically referring to the limit in the number of files, or forms which was used interchangeably in the quoted post, for console mods; I know standard plugins can hold a lot more than just 8,000 forms, I'm not really sure why consoles would have an arbitrary file limit, it's not like their architecture is radically different from PCs now like they were a decade ago so there shouldn't be any specific memory or storage limits that would make it difficult to store more than a certain number of files.